Aerial Anti-Haze Operations Conducted In North

[Thai at Heart]

I have an idea, that may sound revolutionary and maybe is hard to grasp, but what about PUTTING OUT THE F#$%@#$& FIRES????

Now now, thats advanced theory physic's, these things take time.

If you look at a political map of Thailand and a map of where the fires are, is there a correlation?

Send the milky bar kid in and the fires won't be started. After all, common-sense says the fires are bad for hundreds of thousands, or millions of people. Perhaps there is a distinct lack of common-sense.

Then again, could try applying the law. Just an idea

The problem is that the local officials are elected, so don't want to enforce anything and annoy anyone.

[Dap]

nah, but cultural sensitive as i am i know that if the chronic complainers from this topic would voice their concern about this royal project to the right authorities in Thailand it would solve a lot of problems those chronic complainers seems to have.

And I believe you are dreaming if you think that "voicing their concern" to ANY authority in Thailand will "solve" ANY problem that the authority has a vested interest in will take care of the problem. Do try to get a handle on the "real" world.

of course, i am sure. if they complain in the same way like here about this royal project the authorities in Thailand will happy to assist to relieve them from any white mens burden they have here in Thailand. in other words -expel and blacklist them.

its a royal project, you know. this is the kingdom of thailand.

Sorry, you have completely lost me, and I no longer have any desire to continue this discussion.

[scotbeve]

Wonder what the 'hot formula' is? Aluminum, Barium, Titanium oxides with other chemical mixes? Gotta love geoengineering where the 'cure' is more dangerous that the problem it is set out to 'fix'.

<deleted>' chemtrails!!!

[bigbamboo]

It would not be remotely possible to make this stuff up.... Spraying piss and dry ice in opposing flight patterns to remove smoke/dust from the air?? Rose colored glasses brigade, please hit google and see if this concept has been used in farang countries...... Plodprasop move aside, in the wacky science department, you have just been one upped. Remaining options are praying to Buddha, actually putting the fires out, or fining the crap out of people who are starting the fires.. Am fairly sure the path with the best chance of success would be putting them out.

Not really sure of the net value of the crops created by slash and burn, but it sure as hell has to be a lot smaller than the loss of tourism and health damage created by everyone there breathing in polluted air.

And on the issue of fines, why not fine the TAO (Aw-Bor-Tor or Ow By Dhu in N. Thai... ) in the sub-districts where the fires are... Give the folks more of a kick in the butt to pay more attention to this. On the other side of the coin...we had a fire near one of our rubber plantations (Mae Ai) last year. Fortunately, my b-i-law was nearby and was able to alert the TAO - every one of them in the office there came out with the fire truck and extinguished the fire in time.

That was lucky. Don't want a condom shortage in Thailand.

[ginjag]

I have an idea, that may sound revolutionary and maybe is hard to grasp, but what about PUTTING OUT THE F#$%@#$& FIRES????

Now now, thats advanced theory physic's, these things take time.

If you look at a political map of Thailand and a map of where the fires are, is there a correlation?

Send the milky bar kid in and the fires won't be started. After all, common-sense says the fires are bad for hundreds of thousands, or millions of people. Perhaps there is a distinct lack of common-sense.

Then again, could try applying the law. Just an idea

The problem is that the local officials are elected, so don't want to enforce anything and annoy anyone.

Sure do NOT try stamping on a cobra's tail

[ZhouZhou]

nah, but cultural sensitive as i am i know that if the chronic complainers from this topic would voice their concern about this royal project to the right authorities in Thailand it would solve a lot of problems those chronic complainers seems to have.

And I believe you are dreaming if you think that "voicing their concern" to ANY authority in Thailand will "solve" ANY problem that the authority has a vested interest in will take care of the problem. Do try to get a handle on the "real" world.

of course, i am sure. if they complain in the same way like here about this royal project the authorities in Thailand will happy to assist to relieve them from any white mens burden they have here in Thailand. in other words -expel and blacklist them.

its a royal project, you know. this is the kingdom of thailand.

Sorry, you have completely lost me, and I no longer have any desire to continue this discussion.

whatever.

mocking thais will not help much.

and in case you don't know: comments in this forum will not solve any real world problems.

[connda]

It would not be remotely possible to make this stuff up.... Spraying piss and dry ice in opposing flight patterns to remove smoke/dust from the air?? Rose colored glasses brigade, please hit google and see if this concept has been used in farang countries...... Plodprasop move aside, in the wacky science department, you have just been one upped. Remaining options are praying to Buddha, actually putting the fires out, or fining the crap out of people who are starting the fires.. Am fairly sure the path with the best chance of success would be putting them out.

Not really sure of the net value of the crops created by slash and burn, but it sure as hell has to be a lot smaller than the loss of tourism and health damage created by everyone there breathing in polluted air.

And on the issue of fines, why not fine the TAO (Aw-Bor-Tor or Ow By Dhu in N. Thai... ) in the sub-districts where the fires are... Give the folks more of a kick in the butt to pay more attention to this. On the other side of the coin...we had a fire near one of our rubber plantations (Mae Ai) last year. Fortunately, my b-i-law was nearby and was able to alert the TAO - every one of them in the office there came out with the fire truck and extinguished the fire in time.

That was lucky. Don't want a condom shortage in Thailand.

Let it burn. Latex is overrated and many people have latex allergies. Polyurethane all the way, baby!!!

Btw, we lost 1/2 our 15 rai Lumyai orchard to a fire started in the adjacent national forest. The fire-fighter were called but we are land locked by a neighbor's farm, and the neighbor locked their gate and refused to open it. If I knew that pr**k had latex allergies, I'd send him a case or two of latex condoms -- he seriously needs them. What the heck -- his karma will catch up with him.

...and haven't seen sight nor hair of any aerial spraying in our neck of the woods. But then again, considering the haze, you probably couldn't see the plane anyway even if it was 1000 feet overhead.

[scotbeve]

It would not be remotely possible to make this stuff up.... Spraying piss and dry ice in opposing flight patterns to remove smoke/dust from the air?? Rose colored glasses brigade, please hit google and see if this concept has been used in farang countries...... Plodprasop move aside, in the wacky science department, you have just been one upped. Remaining options are praying to Buddha, actually putting the fires out, or fining the crap out of people who are starting the fires.. Am fairly sure the path with the best chance of success would be putting them out.

Not really sure of the net value of the crops created by slash and burn, but it sure as hell has to be a lot smaller than the loss of tourism and health damage created by everyone there breathing in polluted air.

And on the issue of fines, why not fine the TAO (Aw-Bor-Tor or Ow By Dhu in N. Thai... ) in the sub-districts where the fires are... Give the folks more of a kick in the butt to pay more attention to this. On the other side of the coin...we had a fire near one of our rubber plantations (Mae Ai) last year. Fortunately, my b-i-law was nearby and was able to alert the TAO - every one of them in the office there came out with the fire truck and extinguished the fire in time.

That was lucky. Don't want a condom shortage in Thailand.

Let it burn. Latex is overrated and many people have latex allergies. Polyurethane all the way, baby!!!

Btw, we lost 1/2 our 15 rai Lumyai orchard to a fire started in the adjacent national forest. The fire-fighter were called but we are land locked by a neighbor's farm, and the neighbor locked their gate and refused to open it. If I knew that pr**k had latex allergies, I'd send him a case or two of latex condoms -- he seriously needs them. What the heck -- his karma will catch up with him.

...and haven't seen sight nor hair of any aerial spraying in our neck of the woods. But then again, considering the haze, you probably couldn't see the plane anyway even if it was 1000 feet overhead.

Connda,

That was my first thought... how could they see the fires when the viz is only 1 - 1.5 km???

[annabel]

From ZhouZhou

mocking thais will not help much.

and in case you don't know: comments in this forum will not solve any real world problems.

Thank you for enlightening us !! We really didn't know .... ..Now Go away and stay away !!

[GentlemanJim]

From ZhouZhou

mocking thais will not help much.

and in case you don't know: comments in this forum will not solve any real world problems.

Thank you for enlightening us !! We really didn't know ......Now Go away and stay away !!

Is there any need for that? Are you site owner or just rude by nature?

[NeverSure]

I think urea, which is synthetic, helps cool the air as it is mixed with water (humidity.) Obviously dry ice does. This could cause the humidity in the air to condense and fall, bringing pollution particles with it. It is a method of washing the air. I have no idea why clockwise and counter clockwise.

I agree. Stop the burning. A few planes flying around will get only very small areas if it works. The dew point has to be just right for it to work.

I have seen it done for seeding fog to open up an airport. They just fly the length of the runway and approaches, and in minutes there are ice particles on the ground and the sky is clear.

[ZhouZhou]

From ZhouZhou

mocking thais will not help much.

and in case you don't know: comments in this forum will not solve any real world problems.

Thank you for enlightening us !! We really didn't know ......Now Go away and stay away !!

Is there any need for that? Are you site owner or just rude by nature?

i guess a dog owner.

[Locationthailand]

Can't imagine living in Amazing Thailand in Chiang Mai amongst this garbage. Dust? It's <deleted>' smoke you fools....

[belg]

"spraying urea" = piss !!

nice one

took a genius to come up with this plan

[ZhouZhou]

Can't imagine living in Amazing Thailand in Chiang Mai amongst this garbage. Dust? It's <deleted>' smoke you fools....

they call it dust here. get used to it.

[ZhouZhou]

"spraying urea" = piss !!

nice one

took a genius to come up with this plan

its not piss. it is synthetic.

and yes. took a genius.

[Beng]

Using a black hole technique to drive away smog with dry ice and urea. Strewth, isn't this doing it the hard way? Just get people to stop burning.

Agreed. People should rather compost the stuff they burn. Makes for a good fertilizer

Edited March 24, 2013 by Beng

[Noistar]

Can't imagine living in Amazing Thailand in Chiang Mai amongst this garbage. Dust? It's <deleted>' smoke you fools....

You can see the orange moon and stars here in CM

[canuckamuck]

I think urea, which is synthetic, helps cool the air as it is mixed with water (humidity.) Obviously dry ice does. This could cause the humidity in the air to condense and fall, bringing pollution particles with it. It is a method of washing the air. I have no idea why clockwise and counter clockwise.

I agree. Stop the burning. A few planes flying around will get only very small areas if it works. The dew point has to be just right for it to work.

I have seen it done for seeding fog to open up an airport. They just fly the length of the runway and approaches, and in minutes there are ice particles on the ground and the sky is clear.

I have no idea whether or not the chemistry makes sense. I am sure there could be a way to make particles drop out of the sky.

The issue is the overall scale of the problem. It's like scooping water from the ocean.

[crazygreg44]

I hope someone in charge working for the Thai government is reading these posts.

It would help them to realize what goofy measures their fellow bureaucrats are not shy of thinking up.

Myself I spent 1 minute nurturing over what could be the most effective measure to end the haze, before I came to the simpliest and most

effective solution. I guess everybody here in this forum with enough brain left does know what I am talking about.

All I can say is : Education , Education, Education ! Teach them to adress issues in a proper way. No boat propellers, no counterclockwise or clockwise flights, no formaldhyde in cowmeats, no plastic bagging of a trillion of products, no waste thrown into the seas, proper healthcare and <deleted> it takes to eventually change Thailand's status of a third world country to a second world country. From there on they might attempt to climb the educational ladder.

Maybe sending their government employees on field trips to Europe, their tourist locations Administratives to European and Florida beaches and their engineers to European and US american industrial parks will help change their mindset ?

It always gives me to think when Thai elite people who have had the benefit of having studied abroad, never try to defend Thai politics and Thai ways of handling a problem. Is it because they have had a chance to look behind the curtain ?

Technically speaking - it takes a long way to introduce a thai synonym for "preventive measures" into their language. Along with the synonym for the word "effective". Or maybe just "conform to standard measures". Sadly, there is no Thai translation to these words.

Please let's all not forget it was a thai royal member who "invented" rainmaking . . maybe that's why they put so much attention to this kind of "report" . . .

I am just glad they can't blame me for being wrong with their 'black hole' method . . .

[Pimay1]

I think urea, which is synthetic, helps cool the air as it is mixed with water (humidity.) Obviously dry ice does. This could cause the humidity in the air to condense and fall, bringing pollution particles with it. It is a method of washing the air. I have no idea why clockwise and counter clockwise.

I agree. Stop the burning. A few planes flying around will get only very small areas if it works. The dew point has to be just right for it to work.

I have seen it done for seeding fog to open up an airport. They just fly the length of the runway and approaches, and in minutes there are ice particles on the ground and the sky is clear.

I have no idea whether or not the chemistry makes sense. I am sure there could be a way to make particles drop out of the sky.

The issue is the overall scale of the problem. It's like scooping water from the ocean.

I went to the NASA website. There is an email address that anyone can ask them questions. I copied and pasted the article in my email and asked them to please comment. Standard response time is seven days. If I get a response I'll post it.

[Rorri]

OK..here is the theory, black holes could be used as time travel portals, therefore I am guessing they will send the dust either forward or back in time, removing it from present day to either the past or future. 555 In reality, google "haze""black hole technique," it DOES NOT EXIST, except in Khun Song Klinprathum head, which is probably where there is a black hole. Mind you they also came up with the idea last year, to run around with fire trucks, hosing the sky, these people really are a joke.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Rorri

[Thai at Heart]

I read that there is some research going on to inject urea into diesel exhaust to clean it up. Problem is, it needs the temperature of the exhaust gases for the reaction to work.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-11/i-uto111008.php

Urea SCR cleans the exhaust after combustion. The urea solution is held in a separate storage tank and injected as a fine mist into the hot exhaust gases. The heat breaks the urea down into ammonia—the actual NOx-reducing agent. Through a catalytic converter, the ammonia breaks the NOx down to harmless nitrogen (N) gas and water vapor. The exhaust is no longer a pollutant; the atmosphere is about 80% nitrogen gas.

Bill Herz, Vice President of Scientific Programs for The Fertilizer Institute, based in Washington, D.C., says, "You hear a lot about harmful effects of fertilizer on ecosystems—but little about the positive role of urea in stripping away pollutants."

Doran says, "Because SCR technologies reduce NOx exhaust to almost zero, engines can be tuned to maximize fuel efficiency." The result is as much as a 3%% fuel savings and reduced carbon dioxide emissions.

"The exhaust coming from the tailpipe of an SCR-equipped vehicle may actually be cleaner than the air around it," Doran adds.

How it actually works on smoke particulates as opposed to nitrogen oxide is another issue. Beyond that, spraying it into an exhaust line or the open atmosphere is COMPLETELY another issue.

[zappalot]

stupidity even by officials - beyond words.

useless to discuss - as they will never change.

Curing the symptoms instead of what is causing the problem - that mean they really don't want to seriously intervene...

[Dap]

I think urea, which is synthetic, helps cool the air as it is mixed with water (humidity.) Obviously dry ice does. This could cause the humidity in the air to condense and fall, bringing pollution particles with it. It is a method of washing the air. I have no idea why clockwise and counter clockwise.

I agree. Stop the burning. A few planes flying around will get only very small areas if it works. The dew point has to be just right for it to work.

I have seen it done for seeding fog to open up an airport. They just fly the length of the runway and approaches, and in minutes there are ice particles on the ground and the sky is clear.

I have no idea whether or not the chemistry makes sense. I am sure there could be a way to make particles drop out of the sky.

The issue is the overall scale of the problem. It's like scooping water from the ocean.

I went to the NASA website. There is an email address that anyone can ask them questions. I copied and pasted the article in my email and asked them to please comment. Standard response time is seven days. If I get a response I'll post it.

Good call P1. Will be looking forward to your post.

Cheers, dap

[Nobelcat]

So Uria (not piss, but a chemical in piss) + Dry Ice makes ammonium carbamate. That's as far as I get on that one.

I also can find online that Uria is a good substitute for dry ice when needed for supercooling clouds. This sounds like maybe the direction they're going with this idea. Now how supercooled clouds can help with pollution is another matter.

Personally I think I'd just take the airplanes and dump the uria and dry ice onto the fires instead. But I also like experiments being performed.

[Pimay1]

I think urea, which is synthetic, helps cool the air as it is mixed with water (humidity.) Obviously dry ice does. This could cause the humidity in the air to condense and fall, bringing pollution particles with it. It is a method of washing the air. I have no idea why clockwise and counter clockwise.

I agree. Stop the burning. A few planes flying around will get only very small areas if it works. The dew point has to be just right for it to work.

I have seen it done for seeding fog to open up an airport. They just fly the length of the runway and approaches, and in minutes there are ice particles on the ground and the sky is clear.

I have no idea whether or not the chemistry makes sense. I am sure there could be a way to make particles drop out of the sky.

The issue is the overall scale of the problem. It's like scooping water from the ocean.

I went to the NASA website. There is an email address that anyone can ask them questions. I copied and pasted the article in my email and asked them to please comment. Standard response time is seven days. If I get a response I'll post it.

Good call P1. Will be looking forward to your post.

Cheers, dap

No reply yet.

[ginjag]

I reckon It would be quicker and cheaper to have hundreds of police fanning accross hillsides and shooting on the spot anyone caught torching the dry hills.

All this Tech stuff maybe o,k but while they are aerial spraying they can spot where the Burners are,

Nip it in the bud once and for all. no smoke pollution very little bad air. and maybe no refugee camps in danger

[scotbeve]

I reckon It would be quicker and cheaper to have hundreds of police fanning accross hillsides and shooting on the spot anyone caught torching the dry hills.

All this Tech stuff maybe o,k but while they are aerial spraying they can spot where the Burners are,

Nip it in the bud once and for all. no smoke pollution very little bad air. and maybe no refugee camps in danger

But we know that won't happen.... Why can't the adults make the TAO responsible (which they should be...) for their area? Any fire found in that area, the TAO gets fined, heavily. Keep them on their toes!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

If one of the tech leaders of the world invented a true rain making technology then think of who would really benefit?

Chiang Mai would be considered much more favorably if the smoke season was largely eliminated by rains.

China would seem to be a huge beneficiary as it would let them continue to grow with coal and lax environmental standards.

Could be years but possible with tech advancing so fast.

Edited March 29, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie