Why Do Lao Expats Hate Thai Expats ?

[Ulysses G.]

Hear, hear! Thailand is overrun with dysfunctional yuppies nowadays.

Those of you who think there are a lot of weirdos here now, clearly weren't here in the 1990s...

[MrWorldwide]

phnom penh, has thee largest number of sleaze bag, junkie and freak residents i have ever encountered. I was worse 10 years ago, but it is most certainly still there.

As for Lao expats, every one i know has lived as an expat in Thailand at sometime prior to their Lao experience.

'I was worse 10 years ago', eh ? I think it's great that a sleaze bag, junkie and freak like yourself can turn his life around, but do the nurses know you have internet access ?

[Beetlejuice]

I think part of the issue is the mixed bag of Western Expats found in Thailand and neighboring countries. I remember having a soccer buddy (sorry 'football') from England named Alex. He told me stories of his in-laws having a summer place in a seaside town in Spain. It was a town heavily populated with people who were from similar backgrounds in England. Alex related stories of a parade of club / bar hopping of people of all ages having a great time of it. And of course they all carped about the Spanish authorities a lot. In Thailand and nearby places, with Expats from the U.K. already being a mixed bag, add in fellows from the U.S., Australia, NZ, Canada ... next add people from mainland Europe - Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. then what you have is similar looking people but with very diverse political beliefs and social backgrounds. This admixture, I believe is part of the 'we - they' -- 'us - them' attitude that arises in expats of S.E.A (Asean, I suppose these days).

In my life, having spent much time in the military and playing amateur soccer ('futbol') for 20 years, I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds. But in today's heavily charged socio-political arena it is a different thing all together. In my social set of friends, who strongly believe in freedom of speech, we are not burdened with the self-censorship of layers of political correctness in conversations and discussions as it prevails and even dominates in other places. Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech. In this regard, I would be hesitant to 'pal around' with people who at the drop of a hat would try to impose politically correct censorship on my expressed opinion, attempt to be the 'thought police' or otherwise attempt to 'correct me' on what is proper content for discussion. I used to be shocked - but now I am just amused at the PC enforcement shenanigans that one finds here on TV.

In the first instance, you said: `I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds.' Then you say; `Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech'. You don`t sound very tolerant of other people to me, worldly or as someone who has any understanding of the ways, cultures and beliefs of others. In fact you are contradicting yourself.

Free speech and expression of views should always be applied with tact and diplomacy; this is all part of knowing how to gain friendships and having good relationships with people.

Being blunt and straight to the point and strongly making our feelings known is not always the way to make friends and influence people. In life there are moments and places where it is best to keep our cake holes shut and contain our opinions within ourselves.

For example, what maybe a joke to some people could be offensive to others and there are those who will share or sympathise with our views and those who will take umbrance at what we say. I have many friends and acquaintances and act accordingly taking into account how liberal minded is each individual person and what may wind them up. I am not suggesting that we should put on a pretense and not let our real characters shine out amongst people, as this is what makes us all unique and interesting, but some topics are better left out of certain discussions and conversations.

If you are not able to contain your thoughts on certain subjects even while in the company of others or places where discretion maybe appropriate with your politically correct and expressed opinions, than you are one of the types of Thailand expat I would prefer to avoid. This has nothing to do with imposed politically correct censorship, but rather having respect for people’s feelings, backgrounds and origins and being diplomatic in the company of others, especially as you say; a mixed bag of different individual persons.

There is a difference between those who believe in free speech and those who are full of themselves, the self righteous and the holier than thou attitude types. Perhaps this form of arrogance is why there are many South East Asian expats that are unapproachable and a main reason why there can never be any real expat communities in Thailand?

Edited April 1, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[HeavyDrinker]

^ for all you flannel, you're not really an 'expat' are you?

[JDGRUEN]

I think part of the issue is the mixed bag of Western Expats found in Thailand and neighboring countries. I remember having a soccer buddy (sorry 'football') from England named Alex. He told me stories of his in-laws having a summer place in a seaside town in Spain. It was a town heavily populated with people who were from similar backgrounds in England. Alex related stories of a parade of club / bar hopping of people of all ages having a great time of it. And of course they all carped about the Spanish authorities a lot. In Thailand and nearby places, with Expats from the U.K. already being a mixed bag, add in fellows from the U.S., Australia, NZ, Canada ... next add people from mainland Europe - Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. then what you have is similar looking people but with very diverse political beliefs and social backgrounds. This admixture, I believe is part of the 'we - they' -- 'us - them' attitude that arises in expats of S.E.A (Asean, I suppose these days).

In my life, having spent much time in the military and playing amateur soccer ('futbol') for 20 years, I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds. But in today's heavily charged socio-political arena it is a different thing all together. In my social set of friends, who strongly believe in freedom of speech, we are not burdened with the self-censorship of layers of political correctness in conversations and discussions as it prevails and even dominates in other places. Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech. In this regard, I would be hesitant to 'pal around' with people who at the drop of a hat would try to impose politically correct censorship on my expressed opinion, attempt to be the 'thought police' or otherwise attempt to 'correct me' on what is proper content for discussion. I used to be shocked - but now I am just amused at the PC enforcement shenanigans that one finds here on TV.

In the first instance, you said: `I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds.' Then you say; `Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech'. You don`t sound very tolerant of other people to me, worldly or as someone who has any understanding of the ways, cultures and beliefs of others. In fact you are contradicting yourself.

Free speech and expression of views should always be applied with tact and diplomacy; this is all part of knowing how to gain friendships and having good relationships with people.

Being blunt and straight to the point and strongly making our feelings known is not always the way to make friends and influence people. In life there are moments and places where it is best to keep our cake holes shut and contain our opinions within ourselves.

For example, what maybe a joke to some people could be offensive to others and there are those who will share or sympathise with our views and those who will take umbrance at what we say. I have many friends and acquaintances and act accordingly taking into account how liberal minded is each individual person and what may wind them up. I am not suggesting that we should put on a pretense and not let our real characters shine out amongst people, as this is what makes us all unique and interesting, but some topics are better left out of certain discussions and conversations.

If you are not able to contain your thoughts on certain subjects even while in the company of others or places where discretion maybe appropriate with your politically correct and expressed opinions, than you are one of the types of Thailand expat I would prefer to avoid. This has nothing to do with imposed politically correct censorship, but rather having respect for people’s feelings, backgrounds and origins and being diplomatic in the company of others, especially as you say; a mixed bag of different individual persons.

There is a difference between those who believe in free speech and those who are full of themselves, the self righteous and the holier than thou attitude types. Perhaps this form of arrogance is why there are many South East Asian expats that are unapproachable and a main reason why there can never be any real expat communities in Thailand?

Wow! Do you have a license to practice psychoanalysis or at least a Masters in Psychology? Analysis at a distance ... amazing ability you have ... you should charge a big fee for such a talent. Let's see, according to you - anyone who insist on the right of freedom of speech - plain speaking - is in your book an insensitive clod who is automatically a rude - crude bigot - ready willing and able to intentionally insult anyone at every turn. My 'O My aren't you something else. I challenge you to go through my various posts and demonstrate that I have done such things.

Political Correctness: To paraphrase others who have spoken on the subject ... The premise of Political Correctness is that certain people believe that they are the 'correct thinkers' in society. These 'correct thinkers' are convinced that they are morally superior, appropriately sensitive, and conspicuously compassionate in all matters - thus they are the 'elite'. These elite 'correct thinkers' believe they can change society by changing the language thorough cliquish imposition of Politically Correct speech censorship. The desired result of this PC Brigade is to change the way individuals act and in turn change society. Political correctness has run amok in recent times corrupting the news media, universities, business, legislative bodies, politics, ad nauseum. Political Correctness is implemented by declaring that some thoughts and words are “correct” while others are incorrect and therefore not permitted - all done in the style of cliquish bullying. The 'correct thinkers' work to deny the free competition of ideas by using insults, threats, intimidation, as a force against non-correct thinkers. PC is pervasive - the subject matter ranges from terrorism to global warming (excuse me - it is 'climate change' now). Political Correctness - as taken to the extreme in recent years especially in some Western Countries - is a poison thwarting effective communication and resolution of social problems. But alas, rather than really communicate, PC Pushers create victims - in fact they have become professional victim-mongers - a whole new job occupation for some.

In short: Political Correctness is a manic misguided philosophy based on the premise that it is possible, through dictating the use of words, to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Edited April 1, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[Beetlejuice]

I think part of the issue is the mixed bag of Western Expats found in Thailand and neighboring countries. I remember having a soccer buddy (sorry 'football') from England named Alex. He told me stories of his in-laws having a summer place in a seaside town in Spain. It was a town heavily populated with people who were from similar backgrounds in England. Alex related stories of a parade of club / bar hopping of people of all ages having a great time of it. And of course they all carped about the Spanish authorities a lot. In Thailand and nearby places, with Expats from the U.K. already being a mixed bag, add in fellows from the U.S., Australia, NZ, Canada ... next add people from mainland Europe - Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. then what you have is similar looking people but with very diverse political beliefs and social backgrounds. This admixture, I believe is part of the 'we - they' -- 'us - them' attitude that arises in expats of S.E.A (Asean, I suppose these days).

In my life, having spent much time in the military and playing amateur soccer ('futbol') for 20 years, I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds. But in today's heavily charged socio-political arena it is a different thing all together. In my social set of friends, who strongly believe in freedom of speech, we are not burdened with the self-censorship of layers of political correctness in conversations and discussions as it prevails and even dominates in other places. Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech. In this regard, I would be hesitant to 'pal around' with people who at the drop of a hat would try to impose politically correct censorship on my expressed opinion, attempt to be the 'thought police' or otherwise attempt to 'correct me' on what is proper content for discussion. I used to be shocked - but now I am just amused at the PC enforcement shenanigans that one finds here on TV.

In the first instance, you said: `I have had the pleasure of interacting with men from practically every country in the world over long periods of time. Therefore, I am not a neophyte to socializing with people of different mindsets and cultural-social backgrounds.' Then you say; `Nor do we consider frank open discussions of certain elements of our society to be racism or exhibiting hate speech'. You don`t sound very tolerant of other people to me, worldly or as someone who has any understanding of the ways, cultures and beliefs of others. In fact you are contradicting yourself.

Free speech and expression of views should always be applied with tact and diplomacy; this is all part of knowing how to gain friendships and having good relationships with people.

Being blunt and straight to the point and strongly making our feelings known is not always the way to make friends and influence people. In life there are moments and places where it is best to keep our cake holes shut and contain our opinions within ourselves.

For example, what maybe a joke to some people could be offensive to others and there are those who will share or sympathise with our views and those who will take umbrance at what we say. I have many friends and acquaintances and act accordingly taking into account how liberal minded is each individual person and what may wind them up. I am not suggesting that we should put on a pretense and not let our real characters shine out amongst people, as this is what makes us all unique and interesting, but some topics are better left out of certain discussions and conversations.

If you are not able to contain your thoughts on certain subjects even while in the company of others or places where discretion maybe appropriate with your politically correct and expressed opinions, than you are one of the types of Thailand expat I would prefer to avoid. This has nothing to do with imposed politically correct censorship, but rather having respect for people’s feelings, backgrounds and origins and being diplomatic in the company of others, especially as you say; a mixed bag of different individual persons.

There is a difference between those who believe in free speech and those who are full of themselves, the self righteous and the holier than thou attitude types. Perhaps this form of arrogance is why there are many South East Asian expats that are unapproachable and a main reason why there can never be any real expat communities in Thailand?

Wow! Do you have a license to practice psychoanalysis or at least a Masters in Psychology? Analysis at a distance ... amazing ability you have ... you should charge a big fee for such a talent. Let's see, according to you - anyone who insist on the right of freedom of speech - plain speaking - is in your book an insensitive clod who is automatically a rude - crude bigot - ready willing and able to intentionally insult anyone at every turn. My 'O My aren't you something else. I challenge you to go through my various posts and demonstrate that I have done such things.

Political Correctness: To paraphrase others who have spoken on the subject ... The premise of Political Correctness is that certain people believe that they are the 'correct thinkers' in society. These 'correct thinkers' are convinced that they are morally superior, appropriately sensitive, and conspicuously compassionate in all matters - thus they are the 'elite'. These elite 'correct thinkers' believe they can change society by changing the language thorough cliquish imposition of Politically Correct speech censorship. The desired result of this PC Brigade is to change the way individuals act and in turn change society. Political correctness has run amok in recent times corrupting the news media, universities, business, legislative bodies, politics, ad nauseum. Political Correctness is implemented by declaring that some thoughts and words are “correct” while others are incorrect and therefore not permitted - all done in the style of cliquish bullying. The 'correct thinkers' work to deny the free competition of ideas by using insults, threats, intimidation, as a force against non-correct thinkers. PC is pervasive - the subject matter ranges from terrorism to global warming (excuse me - it is 'climate change' now). Political Correctness - as taken to the extreme in recent years especially in some Western Countries - is a poison thwarting effective communication and resolution of social problems. But alas, rather than really communicate, PC Pushers create victims - in fact they have become professional victim-mongers - a whole new job occupation for some.

In short: Political Correctness is a manic misguided philosophy based on the premise that it is possible, through dictating the use of words, to pick up a turd by the clean end.

[DRONGOH]

They aren't brits but poms and that's way !

Why would you worry about what they say?

They learnt a lot from Phil the Greek.

[farangme]

Simple explanation: those living in Laos probably partly/mostly chose Laos over los due to things they don't like about los. Thus they associate expats from los with an equally negative view. Human nature.

An alternate theory: they've had too many bad experiences with the many bottom feeding farang dreggs found in los that they aren't willing to risk yet another encounter.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[samran]

I find this a very strange thread. I usually manage to hit Vientiene once or twice a year for work and the last thing I hear is people whinging about this issue. Methinks the OP has a chip on their shoulder.

When people ask me where I live, I tell them 'Bangkok' and they say 'great' and the topic moves on.

As for people not wanting to be your best friend with in the first 30 seconds of meeting you, well why should they? Having said that, I've had no problems making lasting friendships within the expat community in Bangkok, either through work or social networks. It has only taken a good 15 years.

[Cats4ever]

Avoid Vientiane as there is so many nice places to see without any french or western influence.(and not over run with westerners)

I recently came back enthralled after a 11 day and 1,800Km tour on a CRF 250 Honda, admittedly some of the roads are <deleted> and the drivers in the same category. Have been to the capitol VTE quite a number of times and it is becoming like any popular Asian getaway.

The beer Laos is great and Cambo beer is the same, heads and shoulders above what we have here.

Next trip from all reports is Myanmar, apparently the drop of nectar surpasses both the afore mentioned countries!

The beer in Burma must have improved heaps from the 70's. The Mandalay Bitter produced by the People's Ice & Drink Factory was imbibeable but nowhere near as good as Singha and that is nowhere near as good as Beer Lao.

[JCaligula]

Yes true enough,so stop bitching about others and you drink get pisst just do yourself a favor,please control your attitude thinking your're better then others. Why they look down at Thai expat? Simple,because most of them here are Moran's and Insecure and recent global survey said that the most bloody rude are the French so why border going to Vte? Go to Penang where many speaks English and more educated people there.Try ask some many expats that lived there and they hate the expats from Phuket especially....

[dighambara]

Do they? Or maybe they don't like Visa runners? Are expats a little different than a visa runner?

My first thought was Whaa the Hel...??? Then - HMMM a Visa Run is juat a way to get around the law. People commenting on someone skirting the law - very normal.

I think they can stay in Laos easier than the visa runners can stay in Thailand, and maybe there's less prostitution in Laos so it has a more business oriented image. I don't know though, that's just my perception.

Vientiane feels really international and a little Western compared to any Isaan city (which is where the visa runners are likely coming from).

Less Prostitution..?? A very large percntage of prostitutes from Nong Khai to Pattaya are Lao - someone is living with a closed mind.

International and Western were not reasons for moving to Thailand, which still has a nice rural feel throughout all of Issan - not claustrophobic like horrid Bangkok, which was a sewer in the 60's and is worse today.

[LuukKoeyKorat]

I've been a 'Lao expat' for 2 years now, previously a 'Thai expat' for 8 years. The expat community here in Laos is small; everyone and and anyone knows each other whether you're living in the far north (like me) or around Vientiane -I have never come across a Lao expat moaning about or speaking badly about a Thai expat. Most of us used to be Thai expats anyway before moving here. There is no animosity, jealousy or whatever....what on earth for? Because there tend to be more untapped business opportunities in Laos, and the visa regulations are more straightforward yes - people who have made the move here just get on with their business and leave others to theirs. Bad mannered grumpy Pattaya visa runners in Vientiane with a bargirl on the arm like a poster mentioned previously, that will provoke the same reaction in any country. I for one love to 'touch base' with Thailand after a few months upcountry and enjoy the delights of LOS. But hatred towards other expats - no way!!

[LuukKoeyKorat]

Having lived in Cambodia and traveled around this friendly region quite a bit, It took me a while to figure out why Bangkok seems so cold among expats, aside from it being a mega-city with all that brings.

First, if I came here for the reasons that many come here, I would also keep to myself and risk having to answer as few questions as possible. Not all expats fall into this category, but Thailand does a lot to let sex tourists, burnouts, and other sketchy dropouts get by without having to face themselves-- at least until the money runs out. Talking to other expats-- the ones that still have something of the moral/ethical standards that "you" left behind-- is the fastest way to have to face yourself, so avoid at all costs. Anonymity is a treasured commodity in the land of vices.

Second, now that I've been here awhile, I know better than to risk (accidentally) engaging with the ones who haven't yet figured out that I don't want to hear about their exploits-- the ones who are either oblivious to the fact that what they're here for is kind of skeezy, or who haven't yet figured out that we aren't all like them (i.e that there are other reasons to be in Bangkok, though some days I still ask myself what those are).

I think a lot fewer people become expats in Laos for these reasons-- a much larger proportion go there to work in the international aid community, or in business. It's just a different scene with fewer suspicious motives floating around. And in Cambodia, at least in my experience, the ones with the worst motives/reasons for being there kept well-separated from and out of the way of the more mainstream (NGO and business) expat community.

Just my experience.

Spot on

[dantilley]

I find this a very strange thread. I usually manage to hit Vientiene once or twice a year for work and the last thing I hear is people whinging about this issue. Methinks the OP has a chip on their shoulder.

When people ask me where I live, I tell them 'Bangkok' and they say 'great' and the topic moves on.

As for people not wanting to be your best friend with in the first 30 seconds of meeting you, well why should they? Having said that, I've had no problems making lasting friendships within the expat community in Bangkok, either through work or social networks. It has only taken a good 15 years.

Completely agree with this. Not sure where all this bitterness and negativity towards other expats comes from - it seems like IJWT, for example, has been unlucky a few times with a few farrang encounters and now unfortunately tars all expats with the same brush; personally I can't say I've ever randomly met any of the types of people he describes.

Any expat I meet for the first time here in Bangkok - whether it's a friend of a friend at a social occasion, a colleague at work or just a random encounter in a pub - I can be pretty confident that they will be good value, a nice person, and pleasant company for the duration of the time I'll be spending with them. Obviously there's the occasional exception, but I reckon about 90% of the expats I come into contact with here are decent, well-rounded individuals. I'm yet to meet these droves of dodgy scammers and degenerates that other people seem to be bumping into every day.

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe they don't hate Thai expats, but when they have visitors from Thailand whinging on about their fellows, they don't like to disagree?

SC

[bermondburi]

Avoid Vientiane as there is so many nice places to see without any french or western influence.(and not over run with westerners)

I recently came back enthralled after a 11 day and 1,800Km tour on a CRF 250 Honda, admittedly some of the roads are <deleted> and the drivers in the same category. Have been to the capitol VTE quite a number of times and it is becoming like any popular Asian getaway.

The beer Laos is great and Cambo beer is the same, heads and shoulders above what we have here.

Next trip from all reports is Myanmar, apparently the drop of nectar surpasses both the afore mentioned countries!

The beer in Burma must have improved heaps from the 70's. The Mandalay Bitter produced by the People's Ice & Drink Factory was imbibeable but nowhere near as good as Singha and that is nowhere near as good as Beer Lao.

I was in Burma in 2001 and then visited frequently over the next 5 years . The green Myanmar beer on tap was pretty good as was the blue Mandalay .

[bermondburi]

Beer Lao is overated.

[StreetCowboy]

Beer Lao is overated.

overate? overeaten?

[farangme]

Beer Lao is excellent. Beats the brew from los.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[poanoi]

Nearly all expats i know of have a never-ending need to belittle someone or some group,

be it an acquaintance/limeys/europeans/thai-men/japanese/[insert any group that exclude them-self]

[dantilley]

Sounds like you should try to get to know some different expats...

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ijustwannateach]

Good luck with 'em, Dantilley. Your mileage may vary.

[StreetCowboy]

Sounds like you should try to get to know some different expats...

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I'm lucky that I spend so much time on this forum, and I can look down on anonymous and slightly fanciful personae here, instead of having to find people in real life to look down upon.

SC

[rubberduck]

Simple explanation: those living in Laos probably partly/mostly chose Laos over los due to things they don't like about los. Thus they associate expats from los with an equally negative view. Human nature. An alternate theory: they've had too many bad experiences with the many bottom feeding farang dreggs found in los that they aren't willing to risk yet another encounter. Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

this

[balo]

I'm travelling to Vientiane for the first time tomorrow , need to renew my visa, any chance I will meet friendly expats there?

Which bars/restaurants are friendly for foreigners to have a drink and meet people`?

[salavan]

They're French?

that would explain everything french dont like anyone

[dao16]

OP probably just ran into a crazy. I have been to Laos several for visa runs and to travel more extensively over the last 10 years or so. All the Laos expats I met were fine and most of them said they like to visit Thailand when they get a chance (holiday from their business or flying home). Don't pay attention to the crazies.

Which....on the tangent this thread went into--the reason why a lot of foreigners aren't making a huge effort to greet you when they see you on the street because they have met too many crazies over the years and you just might be one. I am sure everyone on here could tell stories about that.

[pokerkid]

The thai expats that have to do visa runs are usually not the cream of the crop. If you got at least a bit of cash there is absolutely no reason for visa runs , just the 90 day report at the immigration office,

Imagine being an expat in Vientiane and seeing the hordes of unwashed expats come to "your" city everyday , most of them spend the night on the bus or train and don't even bother to take a shower before applying for their visa.

Waiting and sweating for a long time in the blistering sun at the gate the next day, hoping to get out quick so they can take the bus/train back to their teerak in Thailand on the same day.

[Neeranam]

Maybe similar to what the Scots think of the English or the Canadians think of the yanks.