How Did You Learn Thai ?

[mrbojangles]

Simply put, I wonder if I am in danger of becoming something of a language snob, because whilst I would like to aspire to my friend’s level of communication skills I do not want to do so in gutter Thai.

I would be interested to hear the thoughts of the far more accomplished Thai speakers here on the above.

I agree with you Noel. i met someone whilst in LOS, this trip. His Thai at first seemed so fluent, then i noticed some words that i didn't like. I didn't say anything but later i talked with the wife (who had also been listening) and she said she didn't like the way he had talked and many words she couldn't understand as he was trying to talk too quickly. I just want to learn to talk "nice Thai"

Good post Davie!

I especially agree with the listening part. I watched Thai tv for a couple of years without understanding it but subconsciously, or something it helped a lot.

i agree, good post Davie

Learning Thai outside Thailand is imho not the easiest enterprise.

I agree Patex and so i spend alot of the time learning to read and write, when out of the country. My Mrs doesn't help me much but i found it very useful this trip, understanding the characters and attempting to read various things. I have also found that it has brought my pronounciation on, leaps and bounds

[BKK90210]

There are several dialects of Thai, Central Thai is the most common form of the Thai language. Very few people know or speak so called Royal dialect, and any words you do come across are usually very grandiloquent. The main influencing factors that determine if people speak a what dialect are their family, the school they went to and their general environment and neighbourhood.

Thai people do not expect foreigners to be able to speak a regional dialect and almost all would laugh if they heard a ฝรั่ง (farang) speak one of the regional dialects.

I think you have to know your main purpose of learning before anyone can start to learn the Thai language, so that you do not pick up a regional variety of Thai or lower degree of politeness.

If you have overall business purpose for learning then you must learn central thai dialect. Meanwhile if just for simple conversation with your wife or her family then learn the dialect from them whatever they’re speaking is ok.

Most thai in general do not except lower degree of politeness in speaking and doing business with them, you have to be aware and very careful of this. For example you shouldn’t be using regional isaan dialect in central region especially in Bangkok.

The isaan region has it's own dialect although most people understand central Thai. Everyone speaks central Thai at school. No one learns Isaan from formal lessons. There are plenty of Thai people who understand everyday Isaan even though they can't speak it. Isaan people have problems speaking Central Thai without an accent or tend to mixe an Isaan word into conversation.

Bangkok people are generally living under very complex class and status system, and they always view other dialects as being in the lower class than central thai. And because the central dialect tends to make the sentence sound softer and more friendly, this is why it’s so favorable in conducting businesses and using in all government offices.

It had taken me nearly 10 years to master the language in both verbal and written skills, and must say everyday now is still a learning experience

Edited March 14, 2006 by BKK90210

[udon]

I find it so hard to learn Thai.

My gf keeps trying to teach me goodnight but i still dont know how to say it after about a month.

Maybe i just got shit for brains.

No argument on that line of thought....

[Super Villian]

to the OP I would say how old are you? A person's cognitive abilities decrease significantly after a certain age and learning a language as difficult as thai would take considerably more effort at 55 than at 25 whatever your method of learning. If you are an old bloke I would say don't give up but be prepared for some frustration.

In the 7 years that I've known my wife (16 years younger, I'm 55) I have only picked up a few phases and even with an intensive course and many more years of immersion I would not expect to become fluent (or even understandable) whatever the effort.

If you are planning on living in Thailand continuously then you would be well placed to learn the languge á la fuerza' as they say in some countries. If you are an old git like me then good luck...

Thanks for your decent replys... i am 22.. just looking for the best way to basically string a few scentances together

[Kerryd]

I don't understand. Phom mai khao jai. พมไม่เฆ้าใจ

พมไม่เฆ้าใจ is written ผมไม่เข้าใจ the ฆ is very seldom used.

I must say, I am much further ahead after 4 months here, than I was after a year in Germany.

Ja, ja die deutsche Sprache hat so seine Feinheiten...

Yeah, I messed up the Thai script. When I switched languages, the Thai font came out very small. I resized it, but didn't proof it before posting

(I don't use the Thai letters on my keyboard very often. Being in a hurry and trying to scan 47 keys, each with 2 Thai symbols, I apparently picked the wrong ones) (ผฝ พฟ บป ดค ภฦ ถฤ ทฑ) (Like I said, I'm still learning !)

[Neeranam]

I know a guy who worked for the Foriegn Office - he was 48 when he did an intensive course in Thai.

I 6 weeks he could speak incredibly good Thai. Motivation is what most people are lacking. If you need to learn you will be able to.

I've never had any lessons. I organised some lessons for some friends once and sat in the class. The teacher was rubbish. She was recommended to me by someone as she had a Master in Thai. What rubbish she tried to teach - Thai that is never heard on the street.

Another thing guys ask me is if I know a good Thai teacher who speaks English, or if I can teach them. This is not a good way to learn. In general, you should find a Thai teacher that can teach you without speaking English.

[juggler]

I know a guy who worked for the Foriegn Office - he was 48 when he did an intensive course in Thai.

I 6 weeks he could speak incredibly good Thai. Motivation is what most people are lacking. If you need to learn you will be able to.

I reckon you've hit the nail on the head neeranam. Having done teaching english (in the past) showed me this. You simply can't can't teach an unmotiveated learner, it's near if not impossible. In that way teaching is a bit of an impossible task (one of the reason I don't like or do it)

Thirst for knowledged can motivate a learner to still learn a heck of a lot outside Thailand with books and a tape alone. This is what I did whenever I was back in UK for a few months. Then i came back to Thailand and practiced what I learn't, (irregularly at first but now ilive here).I know people living here a few years and they can still only order a beer, if that! sad really but the saying goes you make your bed and lie in it!

[Neeranam]

A friend of mine had been here for nearly thirty years when he asked me to translate for his driver, as his wife wan't there - something like take the second left - this guy can speak 7 other languages too. He decided that he couldn't learn a tonal language from the start and his pride made him miss out on so much freedon, like being able to go places without his translators and/or wife.

[DavieA]

Good post Davie!

I especially agree with the listening part. I watched Thai tv for a couple of years without understanding it but subconsciously, or something it helped a lot.

I think you mean "pa ya yam"

You right Neers, like I said, you don't have to be perfect to be understood!

I watch Thai TV every night with my missus, the really bad soapies and the news. As Neeraman said, subconsciously after time things begin to click, even if you think your not learning everything. When a word comes up, I ask my sleeping dictionary. That's after I wake her up of course...Lazy Bitch!

Joke there, I do love her dearly

[Patex]

The most difficult thing I have found is not so much the learning in terms of vocabulary, sentence structure, particles, classifiers and so forth, it is listening and comprehending when a Thai is speaking.

You are not alone with this, it happens to Thais as well. Understanding Thai requires 100% attention towards the speaker. Many times, when I'm asking a friend/the wife about what a person/radio/tv/song was saying in the same moment I will get the answer:"Don't know, didn't listen".

...As far as I am concerned, I am almost convinced that I will never really master the language unless I am in a situation (or force myself by making my own rules) where I have to speak nothing else but Thai on a 24/7 basis for an extended period of time, ideally on an ongoing daily basis.

I tend to find that I hit plateaux where I just cannot seem to progress, then all of a sudden I seem to go to another level.

That's also my experience and it looks like you have to stay even longer on one level or risk a step back while read/write/speak other languages .

One thing that I find particularly noticeable is listening to farang who claim to speak Thai.

Quite recently a friend of mine, whom I had not seen for about a year, turned up at the house. He can rattle on conversing in Thai at machine gun pace. When his mobile rang and he proceeded to have a lengthy conversation in Thai, I could not help but overhear. I was quite amazed at the poor and often totally incorrect/inappropriate Thai he was speaking.

He was speaking to a Thai contractor who was in the middle of doing some work at his property.

When the call ended, we had a lengthy discussion on the Thai language, particularly in regard to his previous telephone conversation.

Simply put, I wonder if I am in danger of becoming something of a language snob, because whilst I would like to aspire to my friend’s level of communication skills I do not want to do so in gutter Thai.

Speaking Thai on the phone is a real challange for all Farangs who are thinking you can ignore the different sounds in the thailanguage .

Don't be to hard with your friend, with a contractor you shouldn't use your "high-Thai" it only would confuse him .

I would be interested to hear the thoughts of the far more accomplished Thai speakers here on the above.

Far, far away from accomplished and always ashamed about compliments for my Thai-stammering.

Patex

[steveromagnino]

I know a guy who worked for the Foriegn Office - he was 48 when he did an intensive course in Thai.

I 6 weeks he could speak incredibly good Thai. Motivation is what most people are lacking. If you need to learn you will be able to.

I've never had any lessons. I organised some lessons for some friends once and sat in the class. The teacher was rubbish. She was recommended to me by someone as she had a Master in Thai. What rubbish she tried to teach - Thai that is never heard on the street.

Another thing guys ask me is if I know a good Thai teacher who speaks English, or if I can teach them. This is not a good way to learn. In general, you should find a Thai teacher that can teach you without speaking English.

Yep, agree too.

If you have to speak it (which for instance was the case for me, coming back to Thailand to live after growing up in NZ, and speaking basically no Thai, never really having tried) then it takes a surprisingly short amount of time if immersed to be able to speak ok (for me it was about 8 weeks and I was fairly fluent in basic stuff, with zero english during that period).

It is sink or swim, and invariably, you amaze yourself that you could do it.

The biggest thing is swallowing pride. After being master and expert of my area of work, I had to go back to having little school kid neighbours laughing at my poor command of the language. Rather than give up, I just kept writing down the new words I had heard/learned, and tried speaking to EVERYONE I could.

If you say to yourself 'I can't do the tones' or 'I can't say dtor ต vs. dor ด' you are creating your own boundaries. Just go for it, and eventually maybe you can or cannot, but you'll be much closer to being able to speak. (I still cannot hear the difference between บ ป most of the time) - the teacher not speaking english is a MAJOR benefit. Get rid of that crutch, and go back to studying like you did at school.

The reason why we stop learning and thinking like a child, with our minds open to new ideas is mostly arrogance and pride IMHO. Who wants to go back to being a dunce and spending hour upon hour just learning, rather than thinking and trying to problem solve?

Just go for it, and use notes, assocation, reptition, anything that helps learning.

[juggler]

I agree with steveromagnino, total immersion is the fastest way. I take my hat off to you for getting the 'basic stuff' down in 8 weeks! Mine is still relatively basic after 4ish years (in terms of natural communication) and still find it hard to espress myself, (in English too haha) terrible speller that i am!

Stevo is right that youreally have to go for it, throwing away those crutches, but just to add some neg, rest assured you WILL fall down often as part of the process great imagery

(I still cannot hear the difference between บ ป most of the time)

don't beat yourself up about it. Your fine aslong as you know the difference and when to use which!

calling the old lady in shop downstairs bpaa (ป้า) with falling tone is all good as it means aunt. Calling her (บ้า) baa (falling tone too) means mad/crazy...... I'm sure you know this but.....you get my drift......what options have we then, as learners of Thai, other than to keep getting up offa that floor, to find the crutches?. It's just the nature of the language and you have to both live and learn. (She's a nice woman anyway and i think she would see the error in it's context....but maybe not correct me! - funnier that way for her probably)

I remember when i was speaking to my girlfriends mum and dad who are english teachers upcountry. I hardly new any Thai at all then but was of course making an effort (as they teach kindergarten English and basically speak it too). Anyhow they wanted to know about slang in English.

"English, slang, slang" I think was waht they said, indicating that they wanted to talk about English slang ( and learn some probably ) to which I replied

"slang haam" Thinking i was saying, it's forbidden to talk about slang.

I couldn't understand their faces of complete horror/shock mixed with confusion (I didn't know them very well back then) and as I repeated this over and over and over things didn't improve. I got it in 'the end' though later (no pun), when I found out that haam (falling tone) is forbidden , and haam (rising) means penis (and not in a medical sense either). So be warned!

These days I seem to find myself literally "on the floor" unpleaseantly often, but thats for other reasons. Off topic too, and probably best left that way.

good luck and dont give up

[Neeranam]

I couldn't understand their faces of complete horror/shock mixed with confusion (I didn't know them very well back then) and as I repeated this over and over and over things didn't improve. I got it in 'the end' though later (no pun), when I found out that haam (falling tone) is forbidden , and haam (rising) means penis (and not in a medical sense either). So be warned! whistling.gif

That's funny! I think it's important to learn Thai slang and even rude words to stop you doing things like this. Then again, knowing them can get you into some trouble too.

"hamm pood salaeng", would have probably been understood.

Off topic, but at what level do you say that you can speak Thai?

After a couple of years here, I said I could speak Thai, when I only knew the very basics.

I meet lots of guys who say they speak Thai but can't say much more than the time and how to order a beer, or say "do you like my big belly".

I remember when I thought I could speak Thai, I used to hear from Thais, "pood mai dai"

After a few years, this kinda changed to "Pood dai nit noi", to "pood dai, dtae mai koi chad", to "pood dai", and then occasionally to "pood chad mak".

I say I can speak Thai but not so clear, "pood dai dtae mai koi chad"

or "pood dai dtae yang mai klong" I can speak but not yet fluent.

I say now, "pood dai nit nit noi noi", not wanting to sound arrogant.

I can't understand when people talk about political stuff. I can't understand a lot of official Thai.

So, when do you/did you say that you could speak Thai - at what level.

I always test guys that say they can speak Thai by asking a few questions.

If they can't get past the first 3, then I tell them they can't speak.

1. How do you say,"Good Morning, it's nice to meet you"

2. "I've never been to Korea"

3. "Yesterday, I took my documents to the Embassy, but they didn't accept them"

then i ask a few more getting increasing harder, telling me what their level is/

Edited March 16, 2006 by Neeranam

[juggler]

1. How do you say,"Good Morning, it's nice to meet you"

2. "I've never been to Korea"

3. "Yesterday, I took my documents to the Embassy, but they didn't accept them"

then i ask a few more getting increasing harder, telling me what their level is/

Your cracking me up now! -yeh now I do know rude words and your post almost invokes- alley wah respnse ,

number three isn't so easy and would definately not be a single fluent sentence, from me at least. Thai would say it different for sure I know. I could get there slowly with negotiation and some confusion probably so I'm definately not fluent.......you know how thai doesn't translate so well to english but vocab would include..... mua wan, (pom) pbai satarn toot tam tauragit (krap). Sia waylaa pra waa kon tam ngaan ti norn dairap aygasarn mai dai. Mii bpunhaa dte mai saap tamai (mai saab tammai krap jao nai) hahaha

in other words i still have to take the long winded approach at almost every turn but can sometimes get a message through.

Ps had to look the word for documents up. knew it but couldn't remeber grrrrrrrrr so often the way. Also not sure whether you should say dairap or just rap. Lastly this took a while to work out, something which the leisure of real time interaction doesn't provide, and which lead to those great moments of confusion........Anyway enough of this *rap i got some more reading to do. It was quite interesting trying to sork that out though. Just goes to show how I have to work with the things I do know( grammar/vocab )to explain somthing in a totally roundabout fashion. Guess i got a long way to go still......

also you got to keep learning to improve or you go backwards. I'm doing an IT computing degree with OU from England, but living in BKK. It's dammed hard work the mo and am reading English all day, not going out much, not watching TV and speaking very little Thai as a result. Sometimes makes me feel like i'm actually forgetting instead of learning- but thats just on the concious level (hopefully)- and i'm making no excuses if I scored 0 in your test. Thats the best i could do. so whats the % result in accuracy neeranam?

I can't understand when people talk about political stuff. I can't understand a lot of official Thai.

they sure don't teach you official language in those thai learning books and those topics on the news and just the news in general have me lost for the most part.

[Neeranam]

Sometimes makes me feel like i'm actually forgetting instead of learning- but thats just on the concious level (hopefully)- and i'm making no excuses if I scored 0 in your test. Thats the best i could do. so whats the % result in accuracy neeranam?biggrin.gif

I'd say you can speak Thai! But with poor vocab - I find that after time I remember and learn all the words.

If you can explain using the long-winded approach - you have a good understanding.

"Ekasan" is quite commonly used for documents/papers

"yom rab" is to accept.

[gburns57au]

A Thai will tell you your proficiency within a minute of meeting you....normally after you say "how are you?"

I have tried to trick them by saying I dont speak much Thai.....but I get caught out time and time again.....

as one girl explained...You dont speak tourist Thai, You speak like a Thai

[juggler]

Sometimes makes me feel like i'm actually forgetting instead of learning- but thats just on the concious level (hopefully)- and i'm making no excuses if I scored 0 in your test. Thats the best i could do. so whats the % result in accuracy neeranam?biggrin.gif

I'd say you can speak Thai! But with poor vocab - I find that after time I remember and learn all the words.

If you can explain using the long-winded approach - you have a good understanding.

"Ekasan" is quite commonly used for documents/papers

"yom rab" is to accept.

Thanks for improving the knowledge neeranam,(now fully equiped to answer qu3 in one sentence)

in conclusion some understanding yes, but not the experience.

so give us another 5 years will you?

[Noel]

Just go for it, and use notes, assocation, reptition, anything that helps learning.

That is exactly what I do if it seems to fit.

By way of example of the crude word association memory jogger I sometimes use: 'Police' = 'Dam* rude'

PS: Why is the word 'dam' with an 'n' suffixed forbidden on this Forum?

[steveromagnino]

Just go for it, and use notes, assocation, reptition, anything that helps learning.

That is exactly what I do if it seems to fit.

By way of example of the crude word association memory jogger I sometimes use: 'Police' = 'Dam* rude'

PS: Why is the word 'dam' with an 'n' suffixed forbidden on this Forum?

for that one, you can remember the bottle in the middle of the road = kuat dum rwoi (which is a spoonerism)...

and that way you can also remember the word for bottle as well ;-)

Regarding the Q3, the key is whether you want to say it like a Thai or word for word translation; like a Thai would be more short and brevity is the soul of wit or whatever they say. I am not exactly thinking like Thai when I say stuff, but would be something like

mua wan bpai yuen ekasan tee Satarn toot dtae wah kao mai yom rub.

bpai yuen: present documents, that sort of thing.

fahk hai: leaving the documents with them (but doesn't really imply they are doing things with it, more like a I will give you this carrot: pom fahk carrot hai, not quite the same)

pom bpai fahk wai: I (will) leave the document with them

Actually your version is not bad, but a little more complex and is adding issues as to what happened; so if the original question was more complex, then yours would work too :-)

In my life time here, I have only ever heard one farang who was not raised here speak Thai that made me think, <deleted>' heck, they speak EXACTLY like a Thai person. I never spoke to him personally, but had to listen in; bald, slim, about 50 years maybe, flying back from USA to THailand. AFAIK he was not born/raised here (he may have been); the few others that speak amazing Thai either were raised here as children or they speak really well, but not quite the same as a Thai person. Intonation, choice of words, that sort of thing.

I know my own Thai is terrible, but I can hear when other people butcher it like I do That's what keeps me going

[DavieA]

[

:Off topic, but at what level do you say that you can speak Thai?

After a couple of years here, I said I could speak Thai, when I only knew the very basics.

I meet lots of guys who say they speak Thai but can't say much more than the time and how to order a beer, or say "do you like my big belly".

I remember when I thought I could speak Thai, I used to hear from Thais, "pood mai dai"

After a few years, this kinda changed to "Pood dai nit noi", to "pood dai, dtae mai koi chad", to "pood dai", and then occasionally to "pood chad mak".

I say I can speak Thai but not so clear, "pood dai dtae mai koi chad"

or "pood dai dtae yang mai klong" I can speak but not yet fluent.

I say now, "pood dai nit nit noi noi", not wanting to sound arrogant.

I can't understand when people talk about political stuff. I can't understand a lot of official Thai.

So, when do you/did you say that you could speak Thai - at what level.

I always test guys that say they can speak Thai by asking a few questions.

If they can't get past the first 3, then I tell them they can't speak.

1. How do you say,"Good Morning, it's nice to meet you"

2. "I've never been to Korea"

3. "Yesterday, I took my documents to the Embassy, but they didn't accept them"

then i ask a few more getting increasing harder, telling me what their level is/

Good point Neers, I used to get told "Pood Thai nit noy", then "Pood geng mark". Lately people have been saying "pood Thai Chad". I had too ask what "Chad" meant as I've never heard that before in 2 years. I guess that means my Thai is progressing well.

As for the Neers "How well can you speak Thai" test. I got question 1 and 2 down packed, but got lost me on the last one. Thanks for your humbling and confidence destroying 3rd question mate.....you bastard! Guess I'm not as good as I thought......The Thais are probably just being polite or lying as usual when they tell me "Pood Chad"!

[Patex]

[

:Off topic, but at what level do you say that you can speak Thai?

After a couple of years here, I said I could speak Thai, when I only knew the very basics.

I meet lots of guys who say they speak Thai but can't say much more than the time and how to order a beer, or say "do you like my big belly".

I remember when I thought I could speak Thai, I used to hear from Thais, "pood mai dai"

After a few years, this kinda changed to "Pood dai nit noi", to "pood dai, dtae mai koi chad", to "pood dai", and then occasionally to "pood chad mak".

I say I can speak Thai but not so clear, "pood dai dtae mai koi chad"

or "pood dai dtae yang mai klong" I can speak but not yet fluent.

I say now, "pood dai nit nit noi noi", not wanting to sound arrogant.

I can't understand when people talk about political stuff. I can't understand a lot of official Thai.

So, when do you/did you say that you could speak Thai - at what level.

I always test guys that say they can speak Thai by asking a few questions.

If they can't get past the first 3, then I tell them they can't speak.

1. How do you say,"Good Morning, it's nice to meet you"

2. "I've never been to Korea"

3. "Yesterday, I took my documents to the Embassy, but they didn't accept them"

then i ask a few more getting increasing harder, telling me what their level is/

Good point Neers, I used to get told "Pood Thai nit noy", then "Pood geng mark". Lately people have been saying "pood Thai Chad". I had too ask what "Chad" meant as I've never heard that before in 2 years. I guess that means my Thai is progressing well.

As for the Neers "How well can you speak Thai" test. I got question 1 and 2 down packed, but got lost me on the last one. Thanks for your humbling and confidence destroying 3rd question mate.....you bastard! Guess I'm not as good as I thought......The Thais are probably just being polite or lying as usual when they tell me "Pood Chad"!

As for Neeranam's ultimate Thaitest, I just want complete the first 2 "easy" levels :

• Sawadee krap, sabai dee, mai (never heared someone saying: Arun sawat, pom deechai mag dschoe toe...)
  

• Pom mai koey bai Kaoree
  

The troublefree "modified by Patex"- translation for the third question would be:

• Muuwaan pom bai doo Visa tii Kameen
  

chad= clear, distinct

Keep your things easy, Patex

[Neeranam]

As for Neeranam's ultimate Thaitest, I just want complete the first 2 "easy" levels biggrin.gif :

* Sawadee krap, sabai dee, mai (never heared someone saying: Arun sawat, pom deechai mag dschoe toe...)

* Pom mai koey bai Kaoree

Well done on the second one but you missed the "nice to meet you" bit in the first.

I know quite a few guys who speak what I'd call fluent Thai and two who speak the same as a Thai, if not better. The latter two have been in Thailand for 30 years, starting to learn when the were in their late teens at university. I'll never be able to speak like a Thai due to my heavy Scots accent.

mua wan bpai yuen ekasan tee Satarn toot dtae wah kao mai yom rub.

Stevero. I think you are being very modest about your level of the Thai language!

[Beachbunny]

i was just wondering how most people came about learning thai? i have been thinking about learning how to speak thai alot recently as i know it would make my girlfriend very happy. At the moment i can speak about 5 words so i would certainly need the beginner's pack.. Is there any way you can learn on the inet or is it best to get cd's and such..

Well different things work for different people. I really recommend the Benjawan Poomsan Becker book "Thai for Beginners". I used the AUA Thai Course Book I and that was good, but it doesn't teach how to read Thai. The Becker book allowed me to learn to read, and every day I get a little faster. And she has Intermediate and Advanced books that you can go on to when you're ready.

You have to really work on pronunciation, since there are sounds that don't exist in other languages. But it's a blast learning, don't wait to start!

I agree. after searching and trying different things for over 20 years, when I found and bought Benjawan's book I finally learned the basics of how to read thai in a very short time. To me to learn the language better you have to be able to read it also. (not that I'm fluent by a Loooonnnnggg shot) But now I have the foundation to continue.

I have a little background in linguistics as it was required when I was studying to teach ESL/EFL, so I already knew what she was talking about when she mentions final stops, sonorants etc. I don't know if it would make any difference for some people as she explains it pretty well, but for me I felt like I was ahead of the game and on common ground.

Beachbunny

[steveromagnino]

Stevero. I think you are being very modest about your level of the Thai language!

Dude, thanks for that (or should I say och aye the new), but I know how much Thai you know, and i know I am fairly far behind that! When I get to your level (and a couple of the others i nthe language thread) then I will be happier with vocab; but the speaking proficiency and clarity is where I fall down against other 1/2 Thais.

To be honest my Thai is good enough for my work, but I know there is a distinct difference between what I say and how I say it compared to a Thai person born here. See for me, I know it should be bpai yuen ekasarn, but I really want to say bpai fahk ekesarn. Then actually saying it, like Andrew Biggs I have most of the tones right, but it doesn't come out even as clearly as him, and he is very good but at least to me does not sound like a Thai person born in Thailand. He sounds like a foreign born Thai.

Still....I at least have somethign to work on for the rest of my life; good to have hobbies :-)))))