Getting Older.. Who Is Gonna Look After You ?

[doggie888888]

My children. Just as I will look after my parents.

What if your children have no means or inclination to do so, by the time you need their care? What if your children's spouses do not agree?

Too many "what ifs" if one were to rely on children as a retirement plan.

[doggie888888]

Thailand retirement and long term care communities:

Vela Casa & Rongvorawan in Pattaya

http://www.retirement-home-thailand.com/index.php

What a great conception, i had no idea that there were places like these. Does anybody know if there are any in other places in Thailand for retirees.

More importantly, how reliable are they? Hopefully it's a pay as you go arrangement with no upfront deposit.

[TimTang]

Simple if you are Swedish! You will go back home, and your “back-home government” will export you for retirement care in Thailand, all paid by the Swedish tax-payers.

For all of us getting closer to a senior, and who are not from Sweden, it is a good question.

I must rely of my GF and kid , may own savings, and trying to be fit for as long as possible. I cannot imagine returning to my home country and end up alone in a retired old people institution – must be a lot better here.

I think, I shall rather aim for a future like in Lounger's story about the mentor: »…about 90 I saw coming out of a hotel lift supported by two young girls wearing black leather.«

I read an item lately that Germany was also looking at the possibility of setting up pension homes in Thailand. European governments are looking at ways of reducing the cost of maintaining their aging populations. Thailand would be much cheaper and the old folks would probably enjoy the climate and environment more. Actually it doesn't seem like such a crazy idea to me, as it could also be profitable for Thailand as well. It could also be a good source of income for properly trained Thais.

[Konini]

Simple if you are Swedish! You will go back home, and your “back-home government” will export you for retirement care in Thailand, all paid by the Swedish tax-payers.

For all of us getting closer to a senior, and who are not from Sweden, it is a good question.

I must rely of my GF and kid , may own savings, and trying to be fit for as long as possible. I cannot imagine returning to my home country and end up alone in a retired old people institution – must be a lot better here.

I think, I shall rather aim for a future like in Lounger's story about the mentor: »…about 90 I saw coming out of a hotel lift supported by two young girls wearing black leather.«

I read an item lately that Germany was also looking at the possibility of setting up pension homes in Thailand. European governments are looking at ways of reducing the cost of maintaining their aging populations. Thailand would be much cheaper and the old folks would probably enjoy the climate and environment more. Actually it doesn't seem like such a crazy idea to me, as it could also be profitable for Thailand as well. It could also be a good source of income for properly trained Thais.

Indeed, it seems a great idea - until the first person gets bitten and comes down with dengue fever or malaria or is ill or dies of any of the other things that they would reasonably not expect to be bothered with in Europe. No matter how many disclaimers are signed, ambulance chasing lawyers will kill the idea. I actually blame them for a great deal of the nanny state mentality. If teachers didn't sue for falling off an inch high step getting a book from a shelf, governments wouldn't ban everyone from stepping on it without full safety gear.

This is a good subject to be out in the open and sensibly discussed. I fear too many people like to have that 'head in the sand' approach, which ultimately means they will very likely become someone else's problem. And if you have a soft spot or a kind heart, it could be you. Thankfully I will never be accused of possessing either of the aforementioned but I could seriously quite easily see someone putting upon my husband if his pet bull terrier is not around to bark at and savage if necessary any n'er do wells.

[lopburi3]

A number of flames and nonsense posts removed.

[billd766]

When there is no caring partner what are actually the options in Thailand ? After he had his fun and GF has his money he will try to freeload off you or me I hate old white men I guess it will be you

When there is no caring partner what are actually the options in Thailand ?

Nursing home, care centre, call it what you like, another is to hire his own caregiver, and I dont mean some unqualified Issan field worker.

"Unqualified Isaan field worker" mmmmmmmmm my 87 yr old friend has recently had a major operation on Samui.

He was looked after (for an agreed price) after the big op. At times he had no control over his bowels, had to have dressings changed every day with unscrupulous care and hygiene, bathed , fed like a baby and nursed generally. At one stage he contracted an infection, possibly brought in by a visitor. She sat up several nights holding him administering his meds etc.................Guess what, that 30 yr old "Florence Nightingale" was a lady he met in a bar from one of your Isaan fields. Both he and his family will ever be thankful to her. So please do not label all Isaan field girls as being useless. He is now up and about again thanks to no one else but her. Incidentally, the sugeon invited her to witness the operation and take photographs strange as it might seem. They instructed her how to care for him and issued her with a compact kit from the hospital. Where would you get all this care in any western country.

Glad to hear your friend is now recovered, wonder what the agreed price was?

Have a next door neighbour, her aged mother has a full time live in caregiver, lives and eats rent free, and is paid 3,500 baht per month.

Wonder why your friends family were unable to care care of him, but thats another matter.

FYI, I have beed involved with two farang deaths, one massive stroke, the other cancer, also been involved with sorting out a womans benefits.

I wont bore you with the details, however suffice to say, by unqualified I mean, unable to speak read or write English and in one case German, try sorting out little things like atm cards, bank account details, informing relevant authorities to claim pensions etc.

In one case the women was illiterate in Thai, she could even fill in a simple 90 day report, wasted half a day of my time, didnt want to lose face and other such BS.

In the other case the wife was accompanied by what could only be described as Miss Nana Plaza 1975, spoke acted and dressed like a street walker, pissed me off by sparking up a cigarette in the house without even asking if it was ok to smoke.

This mercananry cow was ripping off her own sister, all she wanted to talk about was money.

I told the woman I was busy and next time please come alone, the sister was charging this woman to translate (wrongly) relevant paperwork.

Who a man chooses to marry is no concern of mine, and I am well aware there are plenty of decent educated hardworking girls from Issan.

My problems stem from farangs being totally unprepared from any problems that may arise, and the family thinking they can DIY instead of wanting to part with money.

In one of the cases above, the farang probably thought he was taking care of the family by building a farang mansion.

On his demise and once she had her hands on the pension money, the house was sold, the woman managed to squander 2 million baht in 6 months before coming to her senses.

I have now come to the conclusion, three was enough, there wont be a fourth, too much hassle for me, please dont let yourself be one of the poor unprepared unfortunates.

I have a folder on my computer with an external hard copy which I keep updated that I call what to do when Bill dies.

It contains contact details on my friends and family in the UK and Thailand, bank details, where my passport physically is, ATM card etc

Details of my pensions and how to claim, my state death benefit claim form already filled out waiting only the date of death and my wifes signature.

Who to talk to for help. Where the wills are and stuff like that.

WHAT to do in Thailand, police, hospital, death certificate, UK embassy etc.

In short everything I can think of to make my death easier for her and our son.

Do you want to be cremated and remain in Thailand or should your body be shipped back to your home country.

It is something that most of us should do NOW while we are still compos mentis and is easily changed if needed.

Whilst this may seem a very morbid subject remember most Thais don't like dealing with authority, quite a few can speak good English, less can speak beaurocrat and even less speak Geordie which is where the state pensions are dealt with in Newcastle.

[F4UCorsair]

I will depend on no one, in spite of having a daughter who has undertaken to do anything for her old man, including receive a significant inheritance.

I can imagine nothing worse than having to wear a diaper/nappy, and that can't be seen as retaining any dignity. When I cease to continue to be fully functional, or the pain from whatever ailment I have is too great, my plan will be activated.

My exit plan is a bottle of Bundaberg Rum and 25 Normison sleeping tablets, swallow all the tablets, and see how much rum I can get into me before I drift off into the next life, next world, oblivion, supported by angels or burn in the fires of hell, whatever your belief is. I suppose I could also use the 'exit bag' promoted by Dr Philip Nitschke, a tireless campaigner for the right to die with dignity and a true humanitarian, and recently used by a TV member, in Chiang Mai I think.

An alternative could be to become a Muslim, martyr myself, be entertained by the 'mythical' 72 virgins, and there would be no need for any of the above. I'd shag myself to real death within 24 hours.

Seriously, I've had a great life, and there is no cure for old age, so I see no need to prolong the inevitable, particularly if I humiliate myself.

Edited April 4, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[NeverSure]

When there is no caring partner what are actually the options in Thailand ?

Same as in the U.S. Hope for some good samaritan to call the cops to pick up the body. Or, like the options in the American health care system:

1. Don't get sick.

2 If you do get sick, die quickly.

If there is no loving partner and you don't have Thai kids and grandkids, the answer is: Nobody.

What? I have full health cover in the US. Medicare Advantage, $100 a month. All I have to do is get back to anywhere in the US if healthy enough to travel, and I'm golden.

[chiangmaibruce]

Each time this topic gets raised in TV there seems to be a fair bit of interest from the rank and file, and some very interesting observations and experiences. It is of interest me in, in part, because I have an elderly mother who is currently in a home in Australia.

In these earlier threads I have mentioned a western-style aged care facility I have visited in Chiang Mai, Dok Kaew Gardens. I have also written a little about the topic outside the realm of TV, for example: http://www.austchamthailand.com/businesslibrary (see first paper under "Finance and Investment").

Anyway I'm posting today as I recently heard, from an architect with an interest in the subject, about another facility that is meant to be quite progressive: http://www.sawangkanives.com/ ... the web site is in Thai

[lopburi3]

One off-topic post removed (being a reply to off-topic talk does not make it on-topic).

[Konini]

I will depend on no one, in spite of having a daughter who has undertaken to do anything for her old man, including receive a significant inheritance.

I can imagine nothing worse than having to wear a diaper/nappy, and that can't be seen as retaining any dignity. When I cease to continue to be fully functional, or the pain from whatever ailment I have is too great, my plan will be activated.

My exit plan is a bottle of Bundaberg Rum and 25 Normison sleeping tablets, swallow all the tablets, and see how much rum I can get into me before I drift off into the next life, next world, oblivion, supported by angels or burn in the fires of hell, whatever your belief is. I suppose I could also use the 'exit bag' promoted by Dr Philip Nitschke, a tireless campaigner for the right to die with dignity and a true humanitarian, and recently used by a TV member, in Chiang Mai I think.

An alternative could be to become a Muslim, martyr myself, be entertained by the 'mythical' 72 virgins, and there would be no need for any of the above. I'd shag myself to real death within 24 hours.

Seriously, I've had a great life, and there is no cure for old age, so I see no need to prolong the inevitable, particularly if I humiliate myself.

Whilst able to see the benefits of your exit plan, one which I will probably seriously consider myself, the problem is what if you get to the stage where you can't physically Bundy On. This is where it starts to involve others as you would have to enlist someone to help you exit by going to the pharmacy or going to the bathroom cabinet or opening the bedside drawer or putting the glass to your mouth (because, remember, you are physically unable to do it yourself). You could be leaving the said other person in legal bothers - I'm sure there isn't a jury in the world who would convict someone of murder, but like it or not they committed manslaughter (they did the thing that actually led to the taking of another life, regardless of the wishes of those involved) so police are obliged by law to lay charges and the whole court system would be the last thing you would want to leave a loved one with, and I really see no way of avoiding this - as sympathetic as almost everyone will be, the police still have to lay charges, the courts still have to hear the case etc.

Alternatively what if said person refused to do it on moral or religious grounds? Sure, you've talked it all out long in advance, but when it actually comes to doing it, human nature could never guarantee an attack of the guilts or even some kind of epiphany leaving the poor soul to a life of smiling inanely and clapping for Jesus. To actually take a life would be difficult, even if you knew it was for the best and it was what the other person wanted, I imagine several people would bottle it at the last second.

I remember an old film, where the goodie had a fake tooth filled with poison and all he had to do do was chomp down on it rather than give the baddies the satisfaction of capturing him. Perfect, but what if you couldn't even chomp? Worse still, what if you were crunching your way through a bag of crisps and..................................

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Save up for a Japanese made care giving robot.

The robots are coming to keep you company, wipe your butt and monitor your blood sugar.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/robotics/2009-11-04-japan-robots_N.htm

[ongchart]

A lot of foreigner retirees, although still fit and able, choose to lead a very sedate and truly retired life style in Thailand. They have a bit of money coming from their home country each month, but choose to spend instead of invest. A lot of them live with their partner's extended family. Why not think of some business / better agricultural practices etc to improve the income of the family as a whole? That way, if everything goes well, the extended family will have a steady, regular income, and will be able to take care of you when the time comes.

I have seen a lot of postings that show some TV members are very active helping their Thai families improve their farms, making better use of the land, applying better methods and technology. I prefer this proactive mindset, so that the family learns to 'fish', and later on, the fish can help feed our stomachs when we no longer can help to fish.

[Sheryl]

All I can say is, people's planned scenarios in my experience are rarely the way it plays out in the end. Expect the unexpected and don't assume you'll be able to enforce your wishes even if they prove to be at that time what you envision they will be now (which is not always the case....the point at which people feel it is not worth going on living has a way of being "bumped" forward to an age and level of disability beyond wherever you currently are).

Having adequate savings in monetary terms is certainly wise but there is no substitute for social capital i.e. people who sincerely care about you.

Many of the posts here indicate people who have done well in that regard and give me no cause for concern, but among farangs in Thailand there are some who come here because the different standard of living enable them to essentially "buy" a very youngwoman. When you set out to buy a woman, you end up with a woman who can be bought. And whose behavior when push comes to shove and you are helpless will often not be in your best interests.

Those who have entered into mutually caring and committed relationships (as opposed to what are at heart financial transactions), especially (but not only) if they have children are apt to fare the best when the time comes that they are dependent on others. Even those without spouses or children, if you have taken the time and trouble to help care for others, it will likely come back to you. Often in surprising ways i.e. the people who step up are often not the ones you might have most expected to.

[JLCrab]

While I might take exception that helping a younger woman financially so that she can attend school, take on a much better job and still provide schooling and care for a young child, etc., equates to 'buying' her attention if not affection, there is one thing about a much younger Thai woman as regards long term care:

If she is not willing to take care of you should push come to shove, her parents (who you might also have helped over the years) might very well be willing to do so.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I know a clever canadian who was a notary public in BC.

He set up a trust in canada. The trustee will disperse funds to his Thai wife if certain conditions are met.

So even if he is incapacitated there is a incentive program that is he taken care of. If not then no more checks.

I don't know or remember all the details but it made total sense. The trustee and dispersements involvement begins when he tells the trustee he is near out of it or does not check in and sound coherent for a period. He has to check in with his trustee with Skype video.

After he bought her a house and car then there is not much incentive to keep him healthy. At that point some girls or family members might consider it better if he died and decide to poison his oatmeal or something. This would be especially true if he has an estate and they will receive wealth after his death.

It's a clever way to keep everybody honest and working for him as opposed to against him.

[Sheryl]

While I might take exception that helping a younger woman financially so that she can attend school, take on a much better job and still provide schooling and care for a young child, etc., equates to 'buying' her attention if not affection, there is one thing about a much younger Thai woman as regards long term care:

If she is not willing to take care of you should push come to shove, her parents (who you might also have helped over the years) might very well be willing to do so.

I am not implying that any relationship in which one party helps the other financially is without true caring or commitment. The type you describe very often involves real affection and real gratitude. But not always. I think the parties involved, if they are honest with themselves, can tell the difference.

The type of thing I was referring to would more likely involve the purchase of goodies for an ex-bar girl ....a woman whose goal is to get an education so she can get a good job is usually a different breed from one who is looking for a "sugar daddy".

[JLCrab]

OK Ms. Sheryl, however there are many TV Members who have no problem stating that any older guy who finances younger Thai women is a sucker-in-the-making. I consider such funding an investment and it has done pretty well to date. As I said, the parents, who were hard workers all their lives, I have helped not often but at critical times for them and would probably be more than happy look after me and have some help in their later years -- about 10 years younger than I am.

Edited April 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[F4UCorsair]

KoniniI said,

"Whilst able to see the benefits of your exit plan, one which I will probably seriously consider myself, the problem is what if you get to the stage where you can't physically Bundy On. This is where it starts to involve others as you would have to enlist someone to help you exit by going to the pharmacy or going to the bathroom cabinet or opening the bedside drawer or putting the glass to your mouth (because, remember, you are physically unable to do it yourself)".

The tricky bit is deciding when that will be Konini. There are many illnesses/accidents that can create almost instant disability, but many more illnesses that cause a slow deterioration. If I'm in a position where I am deteriorating slowly, I will pick a time to exit. Regrettably, there is no living forever, even for good guys like me, and when the chips are down, it matters not how wealthy, how famous, how many great deeds you did, you are in for the fire or a hole in the ground. So sad.

[JLCrab]

Maybe be careful that you don't check-out too soon. Re: Herman Wouk author of The Caine Mutiny

At 97, He Has a Book (or 2) Left

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/books/herman-wouk-on-his-new-book-the-lawgiver.html

Edited April 7, 2013 by JLCrab

[Konini]

KoniniI said,

"Whilst able to see the benefits of your exit plan, one which I will probably seriously consider myself, the problem is what if you get to the stage where you can't physically Bundy On. This is where it starts to involve others as you would have to enlist someone to help you exit by going to the pharmacy or going to the bathroom cabinet or opening the bedside drawer or putting the glass to your mouth (because, remember, you are physically unable to do it yourself)".

The tricky bit is deciding when that will be Konini. There are many illnesses/accidents that can create almost instant disability, but many more illnesses that cause a slow deterioration. If I'm in a position where I am deteriorating slowly, I will pick a time to exit. Regrettably, there is no living forever, even for good guys like me, and when the chips are down, it matters not how wealthy, how famous, how many great deeds you did, you are in for the fire or a hole in the ground. So sad.

So that means we should live each day as if it were our last. Enjoy the life you have

[billd766]

KoniniI said,

"Whilst able to see the benefits of your exit plan, one which I will probably seriously consider myself, the problem is what if you get to the stage where you can't physically Bundy On. This is where it starts to involve others as you would have to enlist someone to help you exit by going to the pharmacy or going to the bathroom cabinet or opening the bedside drawer or putting the glass to your mouth (because, remember, you are physically unable to do it yourself)".

The tricky bit is deciding when that will be Konini. There are many illnesses/accidents that can create almost instant disability, but many more illnesses that cause a slow deterioration. If I'm in a position where I am deteriorating slowly, I will pick a time to exit. Regrettably, there is no living forever, even for good guys like me, and when the chips are down, it matters not how wealthy, how famous, how many great deeds you did, you are in for the fire or a hole in the ground. So sad.

So that means we should live each day as if it were our last. Enjoy the life you have

I do and I always remember to tell my wife and son every day how much I love them both. After all one day I won't have them nor they me.

[F4UCorsair]

KoniniI said,

"Whilst able to see the benefits of your exit plan, one which I will probably seriously consider myself, the problem is what if you get to the stage where you can't physically Bundy On. This is where it starts to involve others as you would have to enlist someone to help you exit by going to the pharmacy or going to the bathroom cabinet or opening the bedside drawer or putting the glass to your mouth (because, remember, you are physically unable to do it yourself)".

The tricky bit is deciding when that will be Konini. There are many illnesses/accidents that can create almost instant disability, but many more illnesses that cause a slow deterioration. If I'm in a position where I am deteriorating slowly, I will pick a time to exit. Regrettably, there is no living forever, even for good guys like me, and when the chips are down, it matters not how wealthy, how famous, how many great deeds you did, you are in for the fire or a hole in the ground. So sad.

So that means we should live each day as if it were our last. Enjoy the life you have

I do and I always remember to tell my wife and son every day how much I love them both. After all one day I won't have them nor they me.

It does mean that to me, live every day as if it was my last, and ensure those close to us know how much we love them.

I've just finished a magnificent meal with a friend, Moroccan meatballs and Roast Vegetables, Moroccan style, along with a bottle of good wine. Food and wine are two of the great enjoyments in life, capable of being enjoyed even after the desire for woman, hot in the cot, has diminished.

Edited April 8, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

I did say diminished, not disappeared!!

[bunnaag]

I intend to go out with a bang, preferbaly of the highest calibre I can get my hands on and put the pointy end in my mouth. Care homes are for pusssiess.

Why wait and give it a try now?

[billd766]

I did say diminished, not disappeared!!

At my age I am not sure if I still know the difference.

[JLCrab]

Forget about the palm trees; how close will you be to the nearest critical care hospital?

[jamles]

I intend to go out with a bang, preferbaly of the highest calibre I can get my hands on and put the pointy end in my mouth. Care homes are for pusssiess.

actually it's suicide that's for pussies.

[cheeryble]

I have discussed this a lot with myThai wife and she tells m that she will look after me until I die.

I believe this 100% as I live and trust my wife.

At the moment her mum is living with us and will do so until she dies. Oddly enough she is a year younger than me at 67.

I have told her that in the worst case and I am sent to hospital to get me out asap as I do have an alternative plan for me.

I have also told her that she is NOT to spend any money or her gold in keeping me alive as I have had a grea life with few things worth regretting.

I am the past.

My wife is the present.

Our son is the future.

They are the ones who will need the money when I am gone, not me.

Though my body will be cremated my spirit will always be around them both as I love them so much.

Thankyou Bill for a very lovely and heartening post....

I feel rather the same about my missus She worships the ground I walk on and I know she'll stay the course and though I have no real desire think I'll have to give her a child as it's her heart's desire and only fair as I'll be gone too long before her and so will her mum.

Perhaps it will do me good too it's a bit different having a crock for a dad here I expect!

Edited April 11, 2013 by cheeryble

[billd766]

I have discussed this a lot with myThai wife and she tells m that she will look after me until I die.

I believe this 100% as I live and trust my wife.

At the moment her mum is living with us and will do so until she dies. Oddly enough she is a year younger than me at 67.

I have told her that in the worst case and I am sent to hospital to get me out asap as I do have an alternative plan for me.

I have also told her that she is NOT to spend any money or her gold in keeping me alive as I have had a grea life with few things worth regretting.

I am the past.

My wife is the present.

Our son is the future.

They are the ones who will need the money when I am gone, not me.

Though my body will be cremated my spirit will always be around them both as I love them so much.

Thankyou Bill for a very lovely and heartening post....

I feel rather the same about my missus She worships the ground I walk on and I know she'll stay the course and though I have no real desire think I'll have to give her a child as it's her heart's desire and only fair as I'll be gone too long before her and so will her mum.

Perhaps it will do me good too it's a bit different having a crock for a dad here I expect!

It's true and sometimes I think I am out of step when I read a lot of the posts here and then I think I am not out of step but lucky as many more of us are.

Most of the sad stories get a lot of posts but the good ones rarely see the light of day.

Bad news sells and good news doesn't.