Enforcement Of Thai Debts On My Way Out?

[MrWorldwide]

Try getting 'low level work' in Oz without any contacts. We seem to have half of Ireland over here atm ....

[FunFon]

If the landlady hasn't been paying her tax on the rental income (common in Thailand), reporting the unpaid rent to a government agency may not be worth her while. The tax man can ask for back taxes over many years.

She many not have the option of reporting your debt.

-

That's a good point, and one more in favour of my approaching her early on playing it straight out to negotiate her letting me exit more or less gracefully.

But others are telling me via PM that's a stupid idea and I should do my best to just disappear when all my ducks are lined up, even if I have to pay another month's rent before leaving.

Thanks very much for your thoughtful and constructive input.

Note (again and again for those who insist on thinking the worst) none of this has anything to do with running out on the debt itself, just the practical strategies required to enable me to be able to pay it off - and obviously get back to being self-sufficient supporting my family properly - as soon as possible.

Edited April 12, 2013 by FunFon

[jocko]

Are there actually any REAL people who ACTUALLY live in Thailand posting to this forum anymore.

A few months back the OP was ripping into me with his financial advice and tips for living here.

What a crock...snoozer can't even pay his rent.

And PLEASE TELL ME if you were behind in your rent...why weren't you working...or seeking work...rather than wasting your time flaming me on this forum?

Just another particle of the farang detritus layer removed from Thailand...good bye...

thats what i am thinking,here he is on his arse no money yet he says he is taking his wf.and kids with him,he also states he has a grown up family from 40yrs ago,how old his he to go back to work,and it dont end there his ex and kids are following as not to break up the family,what will they live on FRESH AIR.

I think you are being a little unkind.

In Thailand it is very hard for a foreigner to get work legally. In many of your home countries low level work is easily available.

In some of your home countries there are extensive social services to give money to unemployed families with children.

I would like to be in Thailand full time i am Married to a Thai i cant work there so i come home to earn and i am past retirement age there is the answer .

And i had a business there that went tits up so i am paying the bill by coming home to work self employed.

You make your own bed

[FunFon]

A few months back the OP was ripping into me with his financial advice and tips for living here.

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My recollection is that I wasn't "ripping into" you at all, just trying to correct your expectation that the powers that be here have any concern for efficiency or logic in how they administer their immigration/visa/WP issues, much less any desire to make things convenient for foreigners that don't fit their predetermined pigeonholes.

My only intent there was to help you realise and accept how things work here rather than claiming they've been getting worse or thinking they're going to get better?

-

Are there actually any REAL people who ACTUALLY live in Thailand posting to this forum anymore.

-

Do you honestly think I'm making any of this up? What would be the point?

I'm happy to defend the content of any of my assertions with anyone that would like to thoughtfully engage on the issues themselves rather than attacking me as a person.

I haven't used any other ID since I started posting under this one, and have managed to keep my nose clean wrt the forum rules so far it seems, and nothing I've posted in any incarnation has been anything but the honest truth so help me God, what else can I say.

[FunFon]

You make your own bed

-

and then you have to lie in it, and I'm certainly not trying to avoid my responsibilities nor complaining about my lot in life, I realize full well my situation is the result of past choices. I'm very luck in that despite my mistakes and misfortunes, me and my kids have got our health and tonnes of love and joy together, not always all the ease and comforts but certainly more than our fair share of happiness every day, for which I never forget to express my deepest gratitude to all that help us along the way.

[FunFon]

...

no money yet he says he is taking his wf.and kids with him, he also states he has a grown up family from 40yrs ago, how old his he to go back to work, and it dont end there his ex and kids are following as not to break up the family,what will they live on FRESH AIR.

-

The mother of my kids is getting a large loan against the rice farming land she's invested in in the years since we divorced in order to pay for our airfares and give us some money for food and utilities for the first month or so so we don't have to be completely dependent on my family back home.

Fortunately my mum's got a lot of extra living space since my dad and others in the family have passed away in the past decade, and she's going to let us live rent-free until I'm making a decent salary. Even have the option of living in a vacant flat in the main city two hours away where salaries are sky-high in fields where I have contacts and experience so that's another possibility, but to start with I'll look for something anything even B500 an hour, clean houses chop firewood if we have to whatever just to pay for food and utilities.

I'm in my 50's not sure how that's an issue, obviously harder to start over but I'm reasonably fit and energetic have to do whatever it takes don't I. I realise I may never be in a position to retire.

The kids aren't following, I've been the sole caregiver for seven years now so no way I'm letting them get separated from me and they have dual citizenship already. However their mother's visa situation may not be so straightforward as we've been divorced since the last time she went over for a visit over five years ago, so it's possible well have to go over first and I'll continue to look after them on my own for a little while - IOW she's the one who will follow on if necessary.

But I'm hoping we'll be able to travel all together within a couple of months.

Again, thanks for your concern. . .

Edited April 12, 2013 by FunFon

[Neeranam]

Edit - I realize this is asking a bit much for this crowd, but I'd greatly appreciate it if the specific questions/issues could be addressed with the goal of helping me out with real information, ideally by people with actual knowledge rather than sheer speculation. . .

Bad idea to ask for help from someone then insult them - they might not reply even if they have information.

[krisb]

Seriously Funfon, beg your landlord for forgiveness for letting it get that far out of control, go home, work hard, and fight your way back.

There's only 1 thing you can do when going through he'll and that's keep going.

[weegee]

Are there actually any REAL people who ACTUALLY live in Thailand posting to this forum anymore.

A few months back the OP was ripping into me with his financial advice and tips for living here.

What a crock...snoozer can't even pay his rent.

And PLEASE TELL ME if you were behind in your rent...why weren't you working...or seeking work...rather than wasting your time flaming me on this forum?

Just another particle of the farang detritus layer removed from Thailand...good bye...

thats what i am thinking,here he is on his arse no money yet he says he is taking his wf.and kids with him,he also states he has a grown up family from 40yrs ago,how old his he to go back to work,and it dont end there his ex and kids are following as not to break up the family,what will they live on FRESH AIR.

his is actually 600yrs old....didnt you know?????

[FunFon]

Seriously Funfon, beg your landlord for forgiveness for letting it get that far out of control, go home, work hard, and fight your way back.

-

Thanks Kris, that is my instinct too, just trying to get an idea of a "plan B" if she (IMO unlikely) decides to play hardball, she won't be able to physically locate me, but it seems the border stop could possibly be a real problem.

Even if the odds of that happening are low, I'm now thinking maybe better to err on the side of caution and send her a couple of months more payment and an email explaining the situation after we're safely out of the country.

Even if I only transfer a few hundred every month in the early stages, she's free to start renting the house out to a better tenant in the meantime and she'll see I'm sincere about clearing the whole debt, hopefully won't go to the trouble of making life difficult when we want to return - which at this point is unlikely to be sooner than five maybe ten years anyway.

[FunFon]

his is actually 600yrs old....didnt you know?????

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You might have missed this:

I'm in my 50's not sure how that's an issue, obviously harder to start over but I'm reasonably fit and energetic have to do whatever it takes don't I. I realise I may never be in a position to retire.

-

I have no idea why you (plural) think my age is such an issue?

Had my first crop of kids at a young age true but their mother was in her thirties.

And my second crop is relatively late it's true, but is that so unusual here?

My own dad was 46 when I was born, and he'd had kids in the UK when he was 19 before WW2, maybe I unconsciously followed in his footsteps. . .

[farang000999]

You have two children. If you have airfare home, you need to buy 3 tickets and take nothing with you but a suitcase or two. Shipping toys is silly. You can get some back home when you get a job or go to thrift store or take the kids to the park. You need to leave Thailand with your children ASAP. Forget about trying to DHL stuff back home. Do realize there is no welfare state in Thailand and that growing up in Grandma's tin shack is not going to be a pleasant experience.

[Johnniey]

Didn't you post recently about having servants etc?

Some people have the need to paint a false picture of themselves.

I thought of you as a rich expat type but now realize your not.

[Neeranam]

Game over Funfon - just for interest, who were you previously?

Edited April 12, 2013 by Neeranam

[JLCrab]

From Post # 64: Do you honestly think I'm making any of this up? What would be the point?

-- maybe to help get you through a slow holiday weekend?

[DLock]

If the landlady hasn't been paying her tax on the rental income (common in Thailand), reporting the unpaid rent to a government agency may not be worth her while. The tax man can ask for back taxes over many years.

She many not have the option of reporting your debt.

-

That's a good point, and one more in favour of my approaching her early on playing it straight out to negotiate her letting me exit more or less gracefully.

But others are telling me via PM that's a stupid idea and I should do my best to just disappear when all my ducks are lined up, even if I have to pay another month's rent before leaving.

Thanks very much for your thoughtful and constructive input.

Note (again and again for those who insist on thinking the worst) none of this has anything to do with running out on the debt itself, just the practical strategies required to enable me to be able to pay it off - and obviously get back to being self-sufficient supporting my family properly - as soon as possible.

Any sympathy I had for you is now gone.

The fact that you even acknowledged the taxation issue as a negotiating tool shows me that you really have no respect for a Thai landlady that has extended credit for you and your family. You owe her. Pay her.

The solution is not complex. Get home. Get 3 jobs. Live in your Mum's spare room and eat noodles until you have paid everyone back, including your ex-Thai wife who is literally mortgaging the rice farm for you to fly home.

You made bad decisions and seem to want to continue that trend. Your questions project your intent.

Say what you want, but I think you will get home and stiff everyone. That's just the vibe I get from you.

I truly feel sad for your kids and your ex-wife. They deserve better...put it right.

[FunFon]

You have two children. If you have airfare home, you need to buy 3 tickets and take nothing with you but a suitcase or two. Shipping toys is silly. You can get some back home when you get a job or go to thrift store or take the kids to the park. You need to leave Thailand with your children ASAP. Forget about trying to DHL stuff back home. Do realize there is no welfare state in Thailand and that growing up in Grandma's tin shack is not going to be a pleasant experience.

But ASAP is at least a month away, realistically might be two, the youngest one never got her passports, don't even know how their mum's (4th ticket) visa's going to go. Need to get my ducks in a row, dealing with the landlord is just one issue albeit a critical one.

And thanks for your opinion, but I think it's worth maxing the carrier limits, and some familiar books and toys will help the very young kids feel secure in a new environment.

Never considered expensive shipping, maybe just some clothes or work-related stuff slow regular post by sea, probably not needed. Most of my stuff will be given the maid's family to use or sell or donate to the temple.

[FunFon]

Didn't you post recently about having servants etc? Some people have the need to paint a false picture of themselves. I thought of you as a rich expat type but now realize your not.

-

Never tried to misrepresent my situation, in fact many many here have expressed disbelief when I talk about how little my household has been living on.

As said above, in the end just a nanny for the kids, otherwise couldn't have worked or looked for work at all. One of the main reasons I tried to hold on long as I did, being a single parent back home is a lot more difficult.

Very grateful the ex is coming along, even if I'm very wary about our ability to live together. . .

Edited April 12, 2013 by FunFon

[amykat]

Edit - I realize this is asking a bit much for this crowd, but I'd greatly appreciate it if the specific questions/issues could be addressed with the goal of helping me out with real information, ideally by people with actual knowledge rather than sheer speculation. . .

Bad idea to ask for help from someone then insult them - they might not reply even if they have information.

I think you are grasping at straws here and jumping on the attack bandwagon ... I think it is a fact that many posters on TV respond with speculation, which many times can be helpful. Many posters don't even live here as was pointed out above, but I think the OP thought it was meant as another attack on him, when I think it was meant for people replying.

I really can't see how asking for people NOT to speculate in this case, is somehow insulting everybody.

Anyway, I am rather shocked by all the overly negative replies (not that you did that Neeranam). How many Thai people do we know who live day to day, month to month, borrowing from 16 places in a week to pay back last month's bills, etc.? Many of us have been falling all over ourselves to help out some "poor Thai people" at some point in our stay here. But my God, look at the attitude difference when it is a farang, especially the very old guys who end up sick and broke, in serious trouble and "their Thai family can't help" and nobody seems to notice that part.

Re the landlady, being a landlord is a BUSINESS. All businesses lose out from time to time, bad checks, theft, bad debt, etc. Maybe she has been overly kind in letting the OP stay, but maybe she did this because she knows she can't get another tenant easily and this is better than that. Maybe he has been paying a "farang rent" for 6 years, and with no vacancies, she has still made a respectable profit ...we really don't know do we?

The OP seems totally reasonable to me, and must have had some very hard times (which trying to work in Thailand and supporting a few kids, alone, seems like a reasonable thing that could happen). Has his wife been paying any child support all these years? Oh, what, Thai wives can't do that?? Did she babysit while he worked, help clean up the house a bit, contribute in any way once they split up?

With all the problems and stress the OP is having ...I think he really doesn't need the lectures and especially the attitude of worry about "how it makes the other farangs look." If you are really a person who is worried about that, you need some serious lessons in empathy!

[FunFon]

The fact that you even acknowledged the taxation issue as a negotiating tool shows me that you really have no respect for a Thai landlady that has extended credit for you and your family. You owe her. Pay her.

-

I have no intention of making use of the suggestion, just being polite acknowledging a rare poster genuinely trying to offer constructive information.

"Pay her" - easy to say but as I said out of the question, can't be done until I'm back home earning some money, and then only a bit at a time believe me if it were an option I'd take it even at 4% a month just not available from any source I know of.

The solution is not complex. Get home. Get 3 jobs. Live in your Mum's spare room and eat noodles until you have paid everyone back, including your ex-Thai wife who is literally mortgaging the rice farm for you to fly home.

-

Obviously that's the plan I've already outlined, I'm sure everyone can imagine the terms the ex is imposing for her efforts, both salary as caretaker and interest on the airfare+startup stake loan.

All of which is fine with me, accepted with gratitude, wouldn't have it any other way. Plus she'll learn English, get residency right to work in farangland maybe even finish a degree or other qualification, all of which I'll actively help her with if she's willing to put in the work, hope to make it a win-win for her not just me and the kids.

You made bad decisions and seem to want to continue that trend. Your questions project your intent.

Say what you want, but I think you will get home and stiff everyone. That's just the vibe I get from you.

-

Well you're wrong, don't know what else I can say, I'm pretty sure five years from now all this will look like just another minor bump in the road, nothing at all compared to the time my little girl fell down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the concrete eh?

[JLCrab]

From Post #78: Very grateful the ex is coming along, even if I'm very wary about our ability to live together. . .

From my reading the Visas & Migration to Other Countries Forum, getting the EX-wife to UK when one is basically flat broke may be no sure thing.

[belg]

so you would be prepared to leave your kids here ? do they have your nationality ?

did you get enough money to buy a ticket for all of you ? in that case, take your kids , little bit of whatever and leave the rest

[FunFon]

Has his wife been paying any child support all these years? Oh, what, Thai wives can't do that?? Did she babysit while he worked, help clean up the house a bit, contribute in any way once they split up?

-

Thanks for the support and kind words, perhaps overly so but still appreciated.

I gave the mother of my kids her freedom, at the time she was totally fixated on finding a rich farang and just wanted out from her responsibilities, so I gave that to her in exchange for her signing away all her parental rights and my not giving her any alimony.

Of course there's never been any question of any kind of support coming from her to me, never expected.

However as things spiraled downward, her family did send rice up to the city from the farm and took the kids for long visits during school breaks paying for the train fare and all when needed.

But mum herself would have been quite happy to never see the kids again, only spent time with them a few times a year as the result of my nagging her insisting the kids needed to still know their mother.

But as I said now she's matured a lot, and I'm hoping enough that she'll stick around for at least long enough for me to ramp my income up a bit, but she may just land a rich farang among my family's connections an split in the first few months we'll see.

As long as she doesn't return to her abusive violent ways especially in front of the kids, we'll still be better off there than here in any case, if it comes down to it at least there are better emergency resources to fall back on there that just don't exist here.

And most importantly the kids will be going to decent schools now they're getting to an age where that's going to be increasingly important, that's my primary "camel's hair" that's caused me to stop being selfish and pull the plug.

[FunFon]

so you would be prepared to leave your kids here ?

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Not unless there were really no other choice, no.

-

do they have your nationality ?

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As I said, yes, dual nationals.

-

did you get enough money to buy a ticket for all of you ?

-

Not yet, wife's still negotiating the loan on her investment farmland. She's also got a bar and a hair salon to try to sell, but unlikely to get her money back on those, not sensible investments in the first place IMO but she likes being seen as a business person (face).

[JLCrab]

I read this advice a ways back (actually 25 MAR 2013):

Agree in full, but would like to point out that "mistakes" aren't a problem until you've dug yourself in so deep that it's a major deal to move on. Keep your life to what fits in two checked and one carry-on and you can up and go anytime you like no worries.

Changing partners and living locations every couple of years definitely helps keep things light and easy. . .

-- FunFon #38

Edited April 12, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

From my reading the Visas & Migration to Other Countries Forum, getting the EX-wife to UK when one is basically flat broke may be no sure thing.

-

Not relevant in our situation, she's got a long-term multi-entry tourist visa, but since she's changed her name will need to get it transferred to a new passport, hoping that will be straightforward.

Once she's in-country as the documented biological mother of citizens I'm sure we'll have to jump through some hoops but basically they can't really break up the family.

Actually if they did she'd be happy to come back, she doesn't really want to be there anyway, I'm the one that's going to be in a very tough spot very difficult to work full-time if that happens, my mum's not in any kind of shape to help with the kids.

Anyway current focus is just getting to mum's doorstep for now, the rest will follow one step at a time,

But for you in particular, thanks for engaging in the discussion in a constructive manner, I sincerely appreciate it.

[anon210]

The fact that you even acknowledged the taxation issue as a negotiating tool shows me that you really have no respect for a Thai landlady that has extended credit for you and your family. You owe her. Pay her.

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I have no intention of making use of the suggestion, just being polite acknowledging a rare poster genuinely trying to offer constructive information.

"Pay her" - easy to say but as I said out of the question, can't be done until I'm back home earning some money, and then only a bit at a time believe me if it were an option I'd take it even at 4% a month just not available from any source I know of.

>The solution is not complex. Get home. Get 3 jobs. Live in your Mum's spare room and eat noodles until you have paid everyone back, including your ex-Thai wife who is literally mortgaging the rice farm for you to fly home.

-

Obviously that's the plan I've already outlined, I'm sure everyone can imagine the terms the ex is imposing for her efforts, both salary as caretaker and interest on the airfare+startup stake loan.

All of which is fine with me, accepted with gratitude, wouldn't have it any other way. Plus she'll learn English, get residency right to work in farangland maybe even finish a degree or other qualification, all of which I'll actively help her with if she's willing to put in the work, hope to make it a win-win for her not just me and the kids.

You made bad decisions and seem to want to continue that trend. Your questions project your intent.

Say what you want, but I think you will get home and stiff everyone. That's just the vibe I get from you.

-

Well you're wrong, don't know what else I can say, I'm pretty sure five years from now all this will look like just another minor bump in the road, nothing at all compared to the time my little girl fell down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the concrete eh?

Not sure how it got to this, but I am rather skeptical of an ex-wife demanding interest etc and wanting to come to Europe. And salary on top of it.

Basically, the practical point is that there are a number of bad decisions to be made (taking the ex-wife with the kids is one of them), and you should try practically to move out while getting the least damage and damaging the least the involved persons. It is very easy to take the higher moral ground, but when people end in this situation, they have not a lot of choices left. Esp. not here.

For your landlady, I believe the result will be a clean writeoff. You cannot materially pay off a debt, while having to live with such charges as an ex demanding a "salary" and "interest".

I would consider your heavy belongings in the house to be a loss... Thereafter, all you can do is simply tell her that you cannot pay. Be prepared to move out within the hour, and ask if you can remove the things. I guess she is "making merit" by letting you stay without paying... "Merits" will increase in the measure of her writeoff.

So, I would advise facing her, but being also prepared to be locked out of your room... The instant you do it. However, if it is a load of junk, she might let you take it all, as it will cost her more to get rid of it.

Obviously, all this is read differently if this is a planned and prepared insolvency plan as seems mentioned by the previous post.

[FunFon]

I read this advice a ways back (actually 25 MAR 2013):

Agree in full, but would like to point out that "mistakes" aren't a problem until you've dug yourself in so deep that it's a major deal to move on. Keep your life to what fits in two checked and one carry-on and you can up and go anytime you like no worries.

Changing partners and living locations every couple of years definitely helps keep things light and easy. . .

-- FunFon #38

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Yes, and what's your point?

Given my life experience that's exactly what I will continue to advocate for younger single guys looking to settle down, sink their money into their wife's family real estate etc.

You'll also find dozens of pitches for the free vasectomy service at C&C - now you see why.

You think I should only give people advice that matches up with the choices that have led me to where I am today?

[GoodWesternGuy]

Personally I think you should be utterly ashamed to owe 14 months rent. I had tenants like you back in Australia and it was always 'someone elses' problem. Never theirs. People do one of 3 things in life:

1. The lay blame
2. They justify
3. They take responsibility.

14 months is an utter disgrace.

[isawasnake]

A Thai landlady that let you slide for 14 months on your rent?

Nice try, but I'm not biting on this fairy tale.

I agree, and she wont be a landlady for long even if it is true.

Despite the fact that people wont want to admit this, due to forum bloviating, a huge part of the fault here lies with the landlady. If you let people slide, you will lose out, and justifiably so to be honest. She had choices at many points in time, and chose to be weak, and she is now paying for it.... or perhaps she will. That doesn't mean the money should not be paid of course, but it does mean she necessarily lowered her odds in getting it, by her own choice.

I didn't read the entire OP, but if it was me and I was set on leaving, I'd leave a little cash in the room, probably leave most of the crap in there for her too, assuming she wants it, and just slip out. There is no way you'd have trouble at the airport in that case.