What Exactly Is A Bitcoin? – Live Wire

[dave111223]

I may have to get into the bitcoin manufacturing business. Looks like good money in it!

In most cases you will not be able to make a profit mining bitcoins, especially in Thailand.

In order to be profitable with mining you need to:

- Have access to low cost electricity

- Cool environment (so that you don't have to spend electricity on cooling your equipment)...Thailand is hot obviously.

- Have access to low cost computer hardware....computer hardware is not very cheap in Thailand

- Have the ability to tweak your hardware to get the highly possible output at the lowest cost

If you are planning on investing in mining I'd suggest at least waiting for the new ASIC mining units to become readily available, as they will render any other hardward, that you may have invested in, as obsolete.

However you could get into it not for the "profit" but more of a means to converting your fiat into bitcoins via your hardware/electricity bills.

Edited April 19, 2013 by dave111223

[Buckaroo]

I may have to get into the bitcoin manufacturing business. Looks like good money in it!

Manufacture physical bitcoins and you could be onto a winner

[Shiver]

So let me get this bitcoin thing straight. A bit coin is:

- a medium of payment which requires a computer to buy and sell

- it takes 10 minutes to facilitate a trade

- to 'earn' a bit coin (other than having to buy one) rather than getting one of a product of our own labours (ie something we are good at, whether you are a butcher, baker or offshore driller) you have to again log on and compete against some algorithm which some MIT PhD has scammed anyway.

- you have no broader reference point as to the value of the bit coin, whether it is the underlying functioning of the economy of the government - or in this case - the non government.

Yep, a speculation tool for nerds, the stupid, or the easily led.

When you want to send some money from the other side of the world to your Tirak, 10 minutes and little or no fee sounds pretty good to me. She can convert it with her smartphone app whilst skyping with her other sponsors.

If there's any work I can do for you, I'll be happy to accept bitcoin, litecoin, baht, or dollars, gold, silver or whatever, makes little difference to me as they're interchangeable,

If I wanted to send you $10 wired through a bank, from USA to here, what would it cost me?

[nahkit]

Can someone explain this part of Bitcoin to me please?

Lets suppose I got in early, when the Bitcoin was worth $10. I bought ten of them so it cost me $100.

The Bitcoin is now worth $160 and I decide to sell my 10 Bitcoins, so I get $1600.

Now I gave only gave them $100 so where do they get the other $1,500 from ($1,600 - $100) to pay me my money?

Rephrase the question:

Lets suppose I got in early, when the Microsoft was worth $10. I bought ten of them so it cost me $100.

The Microsoft is now worth $160 and I decide to sell my 10 Microsoft, so I get $1600.

Now I gave only gave them $100 so where do they get the other $1,500 from ($1,600 - $100) to pay me my money?

Microsoft have a product(s) which they sell and make a profit from, thus increasing the value of the stock.

Microsoft pay a quarterly dividend to their investors. People are willing to buy Microsoft for the dividend they can earn and they know the stock is backed by real assets. Companies dont pay dividends unless they have hard cash to cover the cost of the dividend, normally by 3 - 4 times the cost.

Now that I've explained how Microsoft shares have value can you do the same for Bitcoin? Thanks.

Edited April 20, 2013 by nahkit

[nahkit]

So let me get this bitcoin thing straight. A bit coin is:

- a medium of payment which requires a computer to buy and sell

- it takes 10 minutes to facilitate a trade

- to 'earn' a bit coin (other than having to buy one) rather than getting one of a product of our own labours (ie something we are good at, whether you are a butcher, baker or offshore driller) you have to again log on and compete against some algorithm which some MIT PhD has scammed anyway.

- you have no broader reference point as to the value of the bit coin, whether it is the underlying functioning of the economy of the government - or in this case - the non government.

Yep, a speculation tool for nerds, the stupid, or the easily led.

When you want to send some money from the other side of the world to your Tirak, 10 minutes and little or no fee sounds pretty good to me. She can convert it with her smartphone app whilst skyping with her other sponsors.

If there's any work I can do for you, I'll be happy to accept bitcoin, litecoin, baht, or dollars, gold, silver or whatever, makes little difference to me as they're interchangeable,

If I wanted to send you $10 wired through a bank, from USA to here, what would it cost me?

Can you explain that to me with a little more detail please?

Taking the above example, lets say I want to send $10 to someone in Thailand.

First I need to get a Bitcoin. How do I do this? Presumably I have to buy one.

The Bitcoin is worth $160 but I only want to send $10 so I'm assuming that I can buy a fraction of a Bitcoin, in this particular case I would purchase 0.0625 of a Bitcoin.

To do this I would have to transfer $10 from my bank account to Bitcoin and get confirmation that I now own 0.0625 in Bitcoin.

I then transfer the 0.0625 Bitcoin to the person in Thailand.

The person in Thailand having received notification of the transfer now wants to spend their baht on a few beers so they need to get their 0.0625 Bitcoin withdrawn from their Bangkok Bank at the ATM.

How does Bitcoin get the baht into the receivers Bangkok Bank account?

And this is done in 10 mins for little or no charge?

Does the Bangkok bank have an agreement with Bitcoin?

[Buckaroo]

So let me get this bitcoin thing straight. A bit coin is:

- a medium of payment which requires a computer to buy and sell

- it takes 10 minutes to facilitate a trade

- to 'earn' a bit coin (other than having to buy one) rather than getting one of a product of our own labours (ie something we are good at, whether you are a butcher, baker or offshore driller) you have to again log on and compete against some algorithm which some MIT PhD has scammed anyway.

- you have no broader reference point as to the value of the bit coin, whether it is the underlying functioning of the economy of the government - or in this case - the non government.

Yep, a speculation tool for nerds, the stupid, or the easily led.

When you want to send some money from the other side of the world to your Tirak, 10 minutes and little or no fee sounds pretty good to me. She can convert it with her smartphone app whilst skyping with her other sponsors.

If there's any work I can do for you, I'll be happy to accept bitcoin, litecoin, baht, or dollars, gold, silver or whatever, makes little difference to me as they're interchangeable,

If I wanted to send you $10 wired through a bank, from USA to here, what would it cost me?

Can you explain that to me with a little more detail please?

Taking the above example, lets say I want to send $10 to someone in Thailand.

First I need to get a Bitcoin. How do I do this? Presumably I have to buy one.

The Bitcoin is worth $160 but I only want to send $10 so I'm assuming that I can buy a fraction of a Bitcoin, in this particular case I would purchase 0.0625 of a Bitcoin.

To do this I would have to transfer $10 from my bank account to Bitcoin and get confirmation that I now own 0.0625 in Bitcoin.

I then transfer the 0.0625 Bitcoin to the person in Thailand.

The person in Thailand having received notification of the transfer now wants to spend their baht on a few beers so they need to get their 0.0625 Bitcoin withdrawn from their Bangkok Bank at the ATM.

How does Bitcoin get the baht into the receivers Bangkok Bank account?

And this is done in 10 mins for little or no charge?

Does the Bangkok bank have an agreement with Bitcoin?

The person here in Thailand can sell their Bitcoin locally http://bitcoin.in.th/en/ or http://www.bahtcoin.com/ or https://localbitcoins.com/ and I am sure there are many others, basically they exchange their coins or % of a coin for cash which is then paid into their Thai bank account. They will need a Bitcoin wallet on their phone or pc etc. to receive and make their Bitcoin payments.

[dave111223]

So let me get this bitcoin thing straight. A bit coin is:

- a medium of payment which requires a computer to buy and sell

- it takes 10 minutes to facilitate a trade

- to 'earn' a bit coin (other than having to buy one) rather than getting one of a product of our own labours (ie something we are good at, whether you are a butcher, baker or offshore driller) you have to again log on and compete against some algorithm which some MIT PhD has scammed anyway.

- you have no broader reference point as to the value of the bit coin, whether it is the underlying functioning of the economy of the government - or in this case - the non government.

Yep, a speculation tool for nerds, the stupid, or the easily led.

When you want to send some money from the other side of the world to your Tirak, 10 minutes and little or no fee sounds pretty good to me. She can convert it with her smartphone app whilst skyping with her other sponsors.

If there's any work I can do for you, I'll be happy to accept bitcoin, litecoin, baht, or dollars, gold, silver or whatever, makes little difference to me as they're interchangeable,

If I wanted to send you $10 wired through a bank, from USA to here, what would it cost me?

Can you explain that to me with a little more detail please?

Taking the above example, lets say I want to send $10 to someone in Thailand.

First I need to get a Bitcoin. How do I do this? Presumably I have to buy one.

The Bitcoin is worth $160 but I only want to send $10 so I'm assuming that I can buy a fraction of a Bitcoin, in this particular case I would purchase 0.0625 of a Bitcoin.

To do this I would have to transfer $10 from my bank account to Bitcoin and get confirmation that I now own 0.0625 in Bitcoin.

I then transfer the 0.0625 Bitcoin to the person in Thailand.

The person in Thailand having received notification of the transfer now wants to spend their baht on a few beers so they need to get their 0.0625 Bitcoin withdrawn from their Bangkok Bank at the ATM.

How does Bitcoin get the baht into the receivers Bangkok Bank account?

And this is done in 10 mins for little or no charge?

Does the Bangkok bank have an agreement with Bitcoin?

First you'd need to setup a Bitcoin wallet on your computer, and the person you intended sending the money to would also need a Bitcoin wallet on their computer.

Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee. So you could get about 0.079 bitcoins (at current market price).

With bitinstant you pay cash via a local store cashpoint, such as Walmart or CSV. So you go down to walmart with your $10 and when you get back home you see that you have .079 bitcoins in your computer wallet.

You then send this .079 bitcoins to your friend in Thailand (this is the part that is instant). And your friends sells the bitcoins on a website such as the ones mentioned by Buckaroo. At the current rate they would be able to sell the .079 bitcoins for 260 THB, which would be transferred to their Thai bank account.

So based on this example with these exchanges it cost you a total of 18THB to transfer the $10, when compared to the Bangkok bank $10 bill exchange rate of 27.81 (if you had handed them a $10 bill in Thailand)...and took total of probably about 1 day to complete these exchanges.

As previously mentioned: Can anyone offer a way that is cheaper than 18baht and faster than 1 day to send $10 from USA to Thailand (i think not)

Edited April 20, 2013 by dave111223

[Emeritus]

…

First you'd need to setup a Bitcoin wallet on your computer, and the person you intended sending the money to would also need a Bitcoin wallet on their computer.

Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee. So you could get about 0.079 bitcoins (at current market price).

…

You then send this .079 bitcoins to your friend in Thailand (this is the part that is instant). And your friends sells the bitcoins on a website such as the ones mentioned by Buckaroo. At the current rate they would be able to sell the .079 bitcoins for 260 THB, which would be transferred to their Thai bank account.

…

Just like with real currencies there are of course fluctuations in the exchange rate. Based on historical rates I would have received 0.0376 bitcoins for $10.00 on 10 April 2013 and the following day my friend in Thailand could have sold it for $4.14

[BlackPuddingBertha]

As previously mentioned: Can anyone offer a way that is cheaper than 18baht and faster than 1 day to send $10 from USA to Thailand (i think not)

I suppose you mean 18 Baht plus two lots of 3.99% exchange weighting/commission. And I think the answer to that would probably be PayPal, or Moneybookers.

[Buckaroo]

…

First you'd need to setup a Bitcoin wallet on your computer, and the person you intended sending the money to would also need a Bitcoin wallet on their computer.

Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee. So you could get about 0.079 bitcoins (at current market price).

…

You then send this .079 bitcoins to your friend in Thailand (this is the part that is instant). And your friends sells the bitcoins on a website such as the ones mentioned by Buckaroo. At the current rate they would be able to sell the .079 bitcoins for 260 THB, which would be transferred to their Thai bank account.

…

Just like with real currencies there are of course fluctuations in the exchange rate. Based on historical rates I would have received 0.0376 bitcoins for $10.00 on 10 April 2013 and the following day my friend in Thailand could have sold it for $4.14

But equally, you could have sent it on the 8th and they would have gained by the 9th, that is the way of fluctuation

[dave111223]

As previously mentioned: Can anyone offer a way that is cheaper than 18baht and faster than 1 day to send $10 from USA to Thailand (i think not)

I suppose you mean 18 Baht plus two lots of 3.99% exchange weighting/commission. And I think the answer to that would probably be PayPal, or Moneybookers.

No i mean 18 baht total. See my calculations in the original post.

Send someone $10 using bitcoin, they receive 260THB

Hand someone a $10 bill in person, they receive 278THB

Let compare the process to sending with Paypal

You send $10 to your friend in Thailand via Paypal, they receive $9.30 (3.9% + $0.30 fee) they withdraw the money via Paypal and receive 258THB (Paypal offering 27.84 exchange rate)

And the process takes about 5-7 business days!

So with Paypal it cost 20THB and took 5-7 business days, with Bitcoin it cost 18THB and took 1 day.

Note that with bitcoin you could have shopped around for a better price than bitinstant (such as via local people) then it would been cheaper.

Of course Paypal may decide that it was "odd" that you decided to deposit $10 and then transfer it directly to Thailand, they freeze your account, you then have to spend the next 2 months doing a phone dance and sending in documents in order to figure out where your $10 went.

Edited April 20, 2013 by dave111223

[BlackPuddingBertha]

No i mean 18 baht total. See my calculations in the original post.

In your post you said:

"Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee."

Hence my comment about the percentage fee. Presumably there is another such fee at the other end.

PayPal and Moneybookers are both more or less instant, and you should be able to avoid at least one of the exchange fees with them.

When it looks like you are getting something for nothing it is probably because you aren't.

[OxfordWill]

So let me get this bitcoin thing straight. A bit coin is:

- a medium of payment which requires a computer to buy and sell

- it takes 10 minutes to facilitate a trade

- to 'earn' a bit coin (other than having to buy one) rather than getting one of a product of our own labours (ie something we are good at, whether you are a butcher, baker or offshore driller) you have to again log on and compete against some algorithm which some MIT PhD has scammed anyway.

- you have no broader reference point as to the value of the bit coin, whether it is the underlying functioning of the economy of the government - or in this case - the non government.

Yep, a speculation tool for nerds, the stupid, or the easily led.

breathtaking. Please try "I dont get this at all, so I'm not going to get involved". That would be more honest.

[samran]

Why would it be more honest there Oxfordwill? Its as speculative as crap, created by someone with an internet meme who doesn't reveal their identity, and backed by an algorithm rather than the institutions of a democratically elected government.

Again, which part of my post wreaks of 'I just don't get it'?

I'd rather buy a bar in Pattaya and staff it with alcoholics and gamblers.

[dave111223]

No i mean 18 baht total. See my calculations in the original post.

In your post you said:

"Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee."

Hence my comment about the percentage fee. Presumably there is another such fee at the other end.

PayPal and Moneybookers are both more or less instant, and you should be able to avoid at least one of the exchange fees with them.

When it looks like you are getting something for nothing it is probably because you aren't.

The 3.99% fee at bitinstant it subtracted from the mt. gox market rate. Having calculate all exchange costs and fees etc... it costs 18THB via Bitcoin, cost 20THB Paypal, when comparing sending $10 from US to Thailand to handing someone at $10 in Thailand.

I have listed out all the calculations in my previous posts but you seem to just ignore all this and "No it must cost more" without giving any of your own calculations.

Let me list the calculations again as simply as possible:

Bitcoin

Pay $10 to Bitinstant = 0.079 received from Bitinstant

Sell 0.079 bitcoins to website in Thailand = receive 260THB

Paypal

Send $10 via Paypal = Friend receives $9.30 USD

Withdraw $9.30 to Thai Bank = receive 258THB

Cash

Give $10 bill to friend

Bring $10 bill to Bangkok Bank exchange booth = receive 278THB

However this is all trivial as imagine a future when you get paid 1 bitcoin in the US, you send 1 bitcoin to your friend in Thailand, and they buy stuff in Thailand for that 1 bitcoin. How much time/money would that cost you? (almost none)

Edited April 21, 2013 by dave111223

[samran]

No i mean 18 baht total. See my calculations in the original post.

In your post you said:

"Then you'd need to buy some bitcoins in your home country, let's say you are in the USA you could use:

http://bitinstant.com or https://localbitcoins.com/ to buy $10 worth (as per your example). Let's say you use bitinstant which charges you 3.99% fee."

Hence my comment about the percentage fee. Presumably there is another such fee at the other end.

PayPal and Moneybookers are both more or less instant, and you should be able to avoid at least one of the exchange fees with them.

When it looks like you are getting something for nothing it is probably because you aren't.

The 3.99% fee at bitinstant it subtracted from the mt. gox market rate. Having calculate all exchange costs and fees etc... it costs 18THB via Bitcoin, cost 20THB Paypal, when comparing sending $10 from US to Thailand to handing someone at $10 in Thailand.

I have listed out all the calculations in my previous posts but you seem to just ignore all this and "No it must cost more" without giving any of your own calculations.

Let me list the calculations again as simply as possible:

Bitcoin

Pay $10 to Bitinstant = 0.079 received from Bitinstant

Sell 0.079 bitcoins to website in Thailand = receive 260THB

Paypal

Send $10 via Paypal = Friend receives $9.30 USD

Withdraw $9.30 to Thai Bank = receive 258THB

Cash

Give $10 bill to friend

Bring $10 bill to Bangkok Bank exchange booth = receive 278THB

However this is all trivial as imagine a future when you get paid 1 bitcoin in the US, you send 1 bitcoin to your friend in Thailand, and they buy stuff in Thailand for that 1 bitcoin. How much time/money would that cost you? (almost none)

And a we a seeing quite clearly in Europe, a single currency with no common fiscal policy is working oh so well....

[dave111223]

However this is all trivial as imagine a future when you get paid 1 bitcoin in the US, you send 1 bitcoin to your friend in Thailand, and they buy stuff in Thailand for that 1 bitcoin. How much time/money would that cost you? (almost none)

And a we a seeing quite clearly in Europe, a single currency with no common fiscal policy is working oh so well....

With Bitcoin there is no "fiscal policy" at all (in the traditional sense), as there is no centralized authority with control over the money supply.

Edited April 21, 2013 by dave111223

[samran]

However this is all trivial as imagine a future when you get paid 1 bitcoin in the US, you send 1 bitcoin to your friend in Thailand, and they buy stuff in Thailand for that 1 bitcoin. How much time/money would that cost you? (almost none)

And a we a seeing quite clearly in Europe, a single currency with no common fiscal policy is working oh so well....

With Bitcoin there is no "fiscal policy" at all (in the traditional sense), as there is no centralized authority with control over the money supply.

And that is the rub isn't it? I'm guessing half the attraction of Bitcoin (apart from its current speculative potential and coolness factor) is that it is attractive to the anti government libertarian types who have a years supply of tin food stored in remote hut in Idaho. But if they are aiming for currency status, then what happens when things start to go pear shaped and bit coin starts to devalue? Who steps in?

One one hand it is being advertised as a currency, but in actual fact for the moment at least, it is more or less a transmission mechanism of value between real currencies which is also being used as a speculative tool/invstment option - albeit a volatile one. So then, if there is any benefit in using bitcoin to cheaply transfer money, basic economics will tell you that benefit will be arbitraged away quite quickly. Then all bitcoin becomes is an extra step that happens when you transfer currencies - and why would you want that extra step of risk when you are doing a transfer?

[dave111223]

And that is the rub isn't it? I'm guessing half the attraction of Bitcoin (apart from its current speculative potential and coolness factor) is that it is attractive to the anti government libertarian types who have a years supply of tin food stored in remote hut in Idaho. But if they are aiming for currency status, then what happens when things start to go pear shaped and bit coin starts to devalue? Who steps in?

One one hand it is being advertised as a currency, but in actual fact for the moment at least, it is more or less a transmission mechanism of value between real currencies which is also being used as a speculative tool/invstment option - albeit a volatile one.

Note that if you are in a remote hut (dooms day prepper type) then it wouldn't make much sense to support bitcoin, as bitcoin requires power/internet/infrastructure in order to work. If civilization collapses then bitcoins will be worth nothing. I think dooms day preppers would be more into precious metals or bullets as their currency.

You are correct that many of bitcoin's current advocates are for an extremely minimal government; personally I am for total market freedom....let the market decide all. Bitcoin goes hand in hand with this philosophy as it is purely market controlled in every aspect. No one "steps in" with bitcoins, the market decides their value, period, I'm fine with that.

One could make the argument that without government controls we would be over exposed to human nature; panic in the markets, volatility etc...well maybe humans are capable of becoming more enlighten if given the chance. Or maybe you are right and humans are just dumb and need the smartest of us to control the rest with financial controls; I guess we'll never know unless we give it a try.

I would think being in Thailand a higher percent of other foreigners would feel similarly...I mean, you didn't move to Thailand because you prefer a nanny state?

So then, if there is any benefit in using bitcoin to cheaply transfer money, basic economics will tell you that benefit will be arbitraged away quite quickly. Then all bitcoin becomes is an extra step that happens when you transfer currencies - and why would you want that extra step of risk when you are doing a transfer?

This is a short term benefit in the here and now. If bitcoins were widely adopted in the future then there would be no need to exchange them at all.

My point being that they are already marginally useful right now, today. In the future they could be extremely useful.

Edited April 21, 2013 by dave111223

[OxfordWill]

Why would it be more honest there Oxfordwill? Its as speculative as crap, created by someone with an internet meme who doesn't reveal their identity, and backed by an algorithm rather than the institutions of a democratically elected government.

Again, which part of my post wreaks of 'I just don't get it'?

I'd rather buy a bar in Pattaya and staff it with alcoholics and gamblers.

But why not do both? You could even charge them bitcoins for the chang!

The bit you don't get is that regardless of the theory this is a working currency. Will it work forever? I dont know. Will the dollar? I dont know. It's working now and has done for quite a while. That right there is the end of the argument as to if it is just for "nerds, stupid and easily led people (led into what by the way?)."

[zzSleepyJohn]

Been reading this thread with interest and would like to jump in and ask if anyone here knows whether purchasing Bitcoins in Thailand is subject to local exchange control regulations.

[wwex]

I have seen recent interviews with Google, Paypal, Western Union and others where they have stated that they are seriously considering adopting bitcoin. They seem to be people that have a clue and know whats going on, judging by their success.

[dave111223]

I have seen recent interviews with Google, Paypal, Western Union and others where they have stated that they are seriously considering adopting bitcoin. They seem to be people that have a clue and know whats going on, judging by their success.

I have to laugh when I hear stories about Paypal and Western Union "considering" bitcoin...as these are the exact companies that bitcoin will bankrupt.

But then again their "considering" could mean "We're pumping and dumping the crap out of it and praying to jebus that it goes away"

I guess at some point they will have to make a choice to either:

1) Evolve into some kind of Bitcoin service layer (such as exchange, off-blockchain transactions, wallet service etc..) at much lower rates/profits than they are currently accustomed to

OR

2) Try and kill Bitcoin

I'm betting they will go for option #2...shortly following by a swirly trip around the bowl before their permanent demise.

I could however see Google getting involved, as they have a lot less to lose from Bitcoin, as their payment processing a small part of their existing business, compared to Paypal who has 100% to loss if they get it wrong.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dave111223

[dave111223]

To all those who were previously banding about the "tulips" comparison....I wonder if Tulips did that after they crashed?

[wwex]

I have seen recent interviews with Google, Paypal, Western Union and others where they have stated that they are seriously considering adopting bitcoin. They seem to be people that have a clue and know whats going on, judging by their success.

I have to laugh when I hear stories about Paypal and Western Union "considering" bitcoin...as these are the exact companies that bitcoin will bankrupt.

But then again their "considering" could mean "We're pumping and dumping the crap out of it and praying to jebus that it goes away"

I guess at some point they will have to make a choice to either:

1) Evolve into some kind of Bitcoin service layer (such as exchange, off-blockchain transactions, wallet service etc..) at much lower rates/profits than they are currently accustomed to

OR

2) Try and kill Bitcoin

I'm betting they will go for option #2...shortly following by a swirly trip around the bowl before their permanent demise.

I could however see Google getting involved, as they have a lot less to lose from Bitcoin, as their payment processing a small part of their existing business, compared to Paypal who has 100% to loss if they get it wrong.

I agree, my point was that it would have be easier for them to just make some off the cuff comments about tulips or ponzi schemes if there was any truth in those accusations Edited April 25, 2013 by wwex

[Mudcrab]

I must be missing something here. I can understand hard cash and share value based on productivity and hence return on capital employed.

But where oh where does the Bitcoin enter in to this?

What affects its value?

Why would it increase or decrease?

What is this change in value based on? Is it linked to changes in exchange rates?

If so why does it exist at all?

Is it just to circumvent fess and charges or to hide transactions from a Government overseer?

Many examples given relate back to increases value in share prices such as Microsoft...that I can understand. What I am having trouble with is the increase or decrease in the value of the Bitcoin without anyone actually describing (in simple terms) why this happens.

Sure I can understand that if I buy a Bitcoin for $1 and then the value goes to $100...then I have increased my wealth (in Bitcoin) by an order of two magnitudes.

What drives this change?

or is it just digital Amway?

I understand the benefits of transferring electronically but I fail to see the fundamentals in this whole setup.

Where is Naam when you need him???

Edited April 25, 2013 by Mudcrab

[wwex]

I must be missing something here. I can understand hard cash and share value based on productivity and hence return on capital employed.

But where oh where does the Bitcoin enter in to this?

What affects its value?

Why would it increase or decrease?

What is this change in value based on? Is it linked to changes in exchange rates?

If so why does it exist at all?

Is it just to circumvent fess and charges or to hide transactions from a Government overseer?

Many examples given relate back to increases value in share prices such as Microsoft...that I can understand. What I am having trouble with is the increase or decrease in the value of the Bitcoin without anyone actually describing (in simple terms) why this happens.

Sure I can understand that if I buy a Bitcoin for $1 and then the value goes to $100...then I have increased my wealth (in Bitcoin) by an order of two magnitudes.

What drives this change?

there is a limited amount of them, like anything if the demand goes up the value will go up, and vice versa

as far as why it exists, its like comparing email to snail mail, its cheaper and quicker

Edited April 25, 2013 by wwex

[innerspace]

I must be missing something here. I can understand hard cash and share value based on productivity and hence return on capital employed.

But where oh where does the Bitcoin enter in to this?

What affects its value?

Why would it increase or decrease?

What is this change in value based on? Is it linked to changes in exchange rates?

If so why does it exist at all?

Is it just to circumvent fess and charges or to hide transactions from a Government overseer?

Many examples given relate back to increases value in share prices such as Microsoft...that I can understand. What I am having trouble with is the increase or decrease in the value of the Bitcoin without anyone actually describing (in simple terms) why this happens.

Sure I can understand that if I buy a Bitcoin for $1 and then the value goes to $100...then I have increased my wealth (in Bitcoin) by an order of two magnitudes.

What drives this change?

or is it just digital Amway?

I understand the benefits of transferring electronically but I fail to see the fundamentals in this whole setup.

Where is Naam when you need him???

You say share value is based on productivity and capital but that is a little off.

If apples productivity and capital remain constant but the media report a bad story their share price decreases.

The word you are missing is "perceived value".

If people believe it is a safer investment than other alternatives they will be willing to pay more for it and value goes up.

If its perceived bad people pay less and value goes down.

No different to currency or shares like that.

Big difference is lack of governmental intervention which can be good or can be bad...but the overall market helps shape value.

[OxfordWill]

Been reading this thread with interest and would like to jump in and ask if anyone here knows whether purchasing Bitcoins in Thailand is subject to local exchange control regulations.

There is no "purchasing bitcoins in Thailand" to worry about. Bitcoins are purchased online (or between individuals) completely separately to any government body of any kind.

Edited April 26, 2013 by OxfordWill

[dave111223]

Been reading this thread with interest and would like to jump in and ask if anyone here knows whether purchasing Bitcoins in Thailand is subject to local exchange control regulations.

There is no "purchasing bitcoins in Thailand" to worry about. Bitcoins are purchased online (or between individuals) completely separately to any government body of any kind.

Nice contradiction....but if you purchase bitcoins online on a Thai website, or from a local person in Thailand then you are "purchasing in Thailand"

Currency exchanges are regulated in Thailand. You must register as a money changer, but this appears to be pretty straight forward; fill in some applications, and submit information about the exchange transactions you do.

Whether bitcoin qualifies as a currency in the eyes of Thai authorities...as far as i know they have yet to declare their position...so I guess you would have to assume it is NOT a "currency" until they declare is a currency...but I'm assuming that at some point they will issue some guidance on it and will probably say it falls under the same controls as other currencies. (just as the US did with their FinCEN guidance)