Gun Vote " Shameful Day," Obama Says

[JDGRUEN]

From an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow."

In the context of the recently defeated Senate gun bill, if it had been adopted, the legislation would have marked the near immediate proposals of even more onerous gun legislation beginning very soon thereafter. But more importantly - based on recent examples of other legislation equally filled with vagueness as was the gun bill, the obama Administration would go to extremes bastardizing the content of the bill by morphing it into Federal Regulations that would go far beyond the intent of the actual legislation. This is common practice in America and the Democrats have turned this underhanded backdoor subterfuge into an art form. In short, under the obama Administration this so called 'harmless' gun bill requiring back ground checks would have been morphed into an endless series of gun control and registration measures including banning and confiscation. This is the track record of the obama Administration in everything from the EPA to Education.

Enough is never enough for obama and as for the people and their elected representatives - their intent - their wants and desires be damned. obama is hell bent to be a demigod dictator and getting guns out of his way would have been a giant leap for him in that quest... alas the reason for his fury upon defeat.

[rotary]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

All true, great post.

[Jingthing]

Is it your constitutional right for a deranged felon to buy a machine gun out of a vending machine at 3 in the morning?

LAWS regulating gun ownership are perfectly constitutional and that has been definitely established.

The only post sillier than yours might be my response.

I would have loved to see it. I thought I made a totally valid point.

[allalong]

Background checks for guns bought online and at gunshows makes obama a "DICTATOR"? Wingnuts unite!!!!

Sent from my GT-S7500L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Greer]

- snip - The issue should simply be to reduce the number of guns available - but nobody will ever convince a portion of the public until someone they love is shot or killed in a senseless or avoidable accident.

If someone I love is shot and killed by a criminal or in an accident, my reaction will be the same as if he were killed by a drunk driver. "Enforce the laws already on the books, and do so harshly. Don't take either the driving or the gun privileges from the law abiding. Life has risks and I won't give up my freedoms for a little more security."

Three times as many people are killed in traffic accidents in the US than by guns, but who cares? All of the blabber is about guns.

The US is way, way, way down the list of murders per capita by guns of all countries in the world including way below Thailand, UK Guardian but everyone wants to make gun ownership in the US his business, especially if he's from another country.

It's none of your business if you aren't a US voter, any more than what other countries do that I think is stupid is any of my business.

In fact you are quite right. Let them have guns or warm wet bread... it should be none of our concern since we don't live there. True enough.

[ZhouZhou]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

All true, great post.

But something seems to be still okay in the US when the bad bill was rejected by the Senate.

Good balance system.

[ZhouZhou]

Obama voiced anger over the move as he stood alongside parents of children killed in the school massacre in Connecticut last year and former congresswoman Gabby Giffords, who was wounded in a gun attack.

anger and emotion don't make good judgement.

Background checks for guns bought online and at gunshows makes obama a "DICTATOR"? Wingnuts unite!!!!

Sent from my GT-S7500L using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If he gets angry over that his bill got rejected by the hundred senators, than he doesn't sound much like somebody who can easily accept democratic decisions.

[Bikkii]

Guns do not kill people. People kill people with whatever they have at hand, guns, knives, explosives, poison, words, etc., etc.

Good point. I left Australia 3 yrs ago cause I could not tolerate the alcohol fuelled violence. Every night (every city), one punch, one man in a coma, two parents++ turn off life support 3 days later!!! In the end, it really doesn't matter what country you are in, your life is like a lotto game. Me personally feels far more safer in Thailand than in Sydney.

[Morden]

Guns do not kill people. People kill people with whatever they have at hand, guns, knives, explosives, poison, words, etc., etc.

Good point. I left Australia 3 yrs ago cause I could not tolerate the alcohol fuelled violence. Every night (every city), one punch, one man in a coma, two parents++ turn off life support 3 days later!!! In the end, it really doesn't matter what country you are in, your life is like a lotto game. Me personally feels far more safer in Thailand than in Sydney.

rbrooks argument is a worn out excuse for doing nothing in the face of gun massacres and other gun violence.

The fact that other weapons are used in violent attacks does not detract from the fact that guns are used in many violent crimes in the US. Too may guns of the wrong type are in the hands of the wrong people. The issue needs better gun laws and better checking of people who want to buy are carry them.

In the end, the intransigent and unbending attitude of the guns for all lobby will be self-defeating.

Another false argument is that the 2nd Amendment cannot be changed by law. That too is nonsense. It already has been changed.

[manfrommanteo]

No CNN went to gun shows in 3 Southeastern States and bought a small arsenal with no check, no questions asked, and they were not residents of the states. Only one person asked for ID and the crew just walked away.

If one goes to a gunshow in the States, and buys a gun from a dealer, they will have to go through an FBI check. If one goes to a gunshow, a parking lot, a back alley, a house, an apartment, a street corner (you get the picture) and buys a gun from a private citizen, there are no background checks. This is what CNN attempted to do. They did not attempt to buy a gun without a background check from a dealer.

One of the unmentioned facts about this now-failed gun bill is that it would make the owner of a gun a criminal for lending his/her gun to a friend or family member to shoot, say at a gun range or while out hunting. It would also make it impossible for a person to give his/her gun to another as a gift, even if the recipient of the gift was his/her child or relative, including passing along a gun in ones will.

This is what has been unreported by the mainscream media. It was an attempt by the gungrabbers and UN crowd to gradually take guns away from law abiding citizens, and would have done nothing to take guns away from criminals, nor would it have prevented any more mass shootings.

Notice all the laws and agencies that have been put in place since 9/11, and the presence of Homeland Security at Boston, and yet after all of that, nothing stopped the bombers from killing people, even in the presence of bomb sniffing dogs and heavy security.

So, should we now ban, or at least register and/or do background checks on anyone owning or wishing to purchase a crock pot or other pressure cooker?

If you're British, we're really want to send that whiny, sniffling crybaby Piers Morgan back to London. Won't you please take him! I have the feeling many of the Brits don't want him, either.

[Morden]

No CNN went to gun shows in 3 Southeastern States and bought a small arsenal with no check, no questions asked, and they were not residents of the states. Only one person asked for ID and the crew just walked away.

If one goes to a gunshow in the States, and buys a gun from a dealer, they will have to go through an FBI check. If one goes to a gunshow, a parking lot, a back alley, a house, an apartment, a street corner (you get the picture) and buys a gun from a private citizen, there are no background checks. This is what CNN attempted to do. They did not attempt to buy a gun without a background check from a dealer.

One of the unmentioned facts about this now-failed gun bill is that it would make the owner of a gun a criminal for lending his/her gun to a friend or family member to shoot, say at a gun range or while out hunting. It would also make it impossible for a person to give his/her gun to another as a gift, even if the recipient of the gift was his/her child or relative, including passing along a gun in ones will.

This is what has been unreported by the mainscream media. It was an attempt by the gungrabbers and UN crowd to gradually take guns away from law abiding citizens, and would have done nothing to take guns away from criminals, nor would it have prevented any more mass shootings.

Notice all the laws and agencies that have been put in place since 9/11, and the presence of Homeland Security at Boston, and yet after all of that, nothing stopped the bombers from killing people, even in the presence of bomb sniffing dogs and heavy security.

So, should we now ban, or at least register and/or do background checks on anyone owning or wishing to purchase a crock pot or other pressure cooker?

If you're British, we're really want to send that whiny, sniffling crybaby Piers Morgan back to London. Won't you please take him! I have the feeling many of the Brits don't want him, either.

Guns-for-all people do get personal, don't they? They also deliberately attempt to divert the discussion from guns, how people acquire them and who acquires them. Bombs and pressure cookers belong to a different discussion.

Piers Morgan and the rest of CNN are doing a good job in keeping this issue in the public eye against opposition from the NRA who are determined to represent the interests of the gun industry despite the recent carnage.

[DocN]

oooooookay...

according to a dictionary, a "Liberal" is a person in favor of progress and reform, accepting the freedom of an individual, stands for personal rights (especially the ones guaranteed by the law) and is in favor of freedom of speech and belief.

...and some here think, that can count as an insult?!

I am proud to be called a liberal!

You claim you are proud to be called a liberal because you stand in support of personal rights (especially the ones guaranteed by the law)....correct?

The right to bear arms is more than a law. It is a Constitutional right in the US, just as is freedom of speech and religion.

You support personal rights but draw the line at something that seems to make you extremely uncomfortable, the right to bear arms.

What will be next? My freedom of speech or religion?

Where I come from you would be called a hypocritical liberal.

You just don't get, do you?

If you want, you can have a tank in your garage, if it is up to me!

Hopefully, your horniness for big weapons is cured by that!

What I want, are laws, that make sure, that things like Sandy Hook become as unlikely to happen as possible.

Background checks, safe- storage, no big magazines etc.

Get it now?

[chuckd]

oooooookay...

according to a dictionary, a "Liberal" is a person in favor of progress and reform, accepting the freedom of an individual, stands for personal rights (especially the ones guaranteed by the law) and is in favor of freedom of speech and belief.

...and some here think, that can count as an insult?!

I am proud to be called a liberal!

You claim you are proud to be called a liberal because you stand in support of personal rights (especially the ones guaranteed by the law)....correct?

The right to bear arms is more than a law. It is a Constitutional right in the US, just as is freedom of speech and religion.

You support personal rights but draw the line at something that seems to make you extremely uncomfortable, the right to bear arms.

What will be next? My freedom of speech or religion?

Where I come from you would be called a hypocritical liberal.

You just don't get, do you?

If you want, you can have a tank in your garage, if it is up to me!

Hopefully, your horniness for big weapons is cured by that!

What I want, are laws, that make sure, that things like Sandy Hook become as unlikely to happen as possible.

Background checks, safe- storage, no big magazines etc.

Get it now?

My sexual preferences are not up for discussion.

Rather than answer my question about which of my rights as an American citizen you would wish to infringe upon as a German citizen, you have again deflected it to a talking point that has recently been roundly defeated by the legislative process in the US.

Which of my rights are to be taken away from me next in your world?

Edited April 20, 2013 by chuckd

[OZEMADE]

I think after the Terrorist bombing in Boston, it will make Americans think again about the gun laws and Obama will have buckley's of getting the law changed now. If anything they will now be buying more to protect their homes.

[keemapoot]

I think after the Terrorist bombing in Boston, it will make Americans think again about the gun laws and Obama will have buckley's of getting the law changed now. If anything they will now be buying more to protect their homes.

This Boston bombing has also ignited and impacted the already heated immigration debate. Fortress America: more guns and lock the gates.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. Continued off-topic trolling and responding to every comment will earn a warning and suspensions.

Stick to the topic.

[pgangeles]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

Obama did not lie, 85% to 90% were for more back round checks including NRA members and Republicans Where do you get your news from. Faux News?

[pgangeles]

I think after the Terrorist bombing in Boston, it will make Americans think again about the gun laws and Obama will have buckley's of getting the law changed now. If anything they will now be buying more to protect their homes.

Sure, all we need now is every one to be armed. Bullets flying all over the place. Let the police and other agencies do the job there trained to do.

OZEMADE, you are the problem. No one is taking any lawful weapons away. Do a little research.

[chuckd]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

Obama did not lie, 85% to 90% were for more back round checks including NRA members and Republicans Where do you get your news from. Faux News?

The poll question asked in the CBS poll was...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CBS NEWS/NEW YORK TIMES POLLJanuary 11-15, 2012

q59 Do you favor or oppose a federal law requiring background checks on all potential gunbuyers? (sic)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course 90% will claim background checks should be performed since that is the law of the land anyway. The poll should have said something like the following.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Do you support background checks for all gun transfers to include buying from authorized dealers, online, gun shows, newspaper advertisements, personal gun collectors, bulletin boards and friends or family?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if that question would garner 90% favorable support.

The same poll also asked if armed guards should be put in public places to reduce mass shootings.

74% said it would have "some" to "a lot" of impact and should be done. Haven't seen much in the news on this part of the poll.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120711121/CBS-News-New-York-Times-Poll

This poll was taken by the real "faux" News.

[JDGRUEN]

I think after the Terrorist bombing in Boston, it will make Americans think again about the gun laws and Obama will have buckley's of getting the law changed now. If anything they will now be buying more to protect their homes.

This Boston bombing has also ignited and impacted the already heated immigration debate. Fortress America: more guns and lock the gate

If anything the Boston Bombing will bolster the case of gun rights advocates since it shows that violence does not only come from the barrel of a gun - it can come from a pressure cooker. Also - many people will see the better sense of home defense as terrorists flee the police and people are locked in their homes with a terrorist outside in their boat in the back yard. While off topic, the immigratrion issue will be affected by the Boston Bombing too. People will ask and rightly so - Why were these two guys allows to get here and stay here considering what has already been exposed in the news. While not 'Fortress' America - Sensible America wold be a great deal. The U.S. doesn't need more immigrants than are already allowed by law. The U.S. allows huge number each year to have residency ... in fact In terms of sheer numbers, in 2006, the United States took as many immigrants as Italy, the United Kingdom, Germany, Japan, Austria, France, and Australia combined.¹ Those nations have a combined population of 410 million, compared to 300 million for the United States.

Edited April 20, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[Yahooka]

The U.S. government has become dysfunctional mostly due to republican/right wing obstructionism. The elected officials are supposed to reflect the will of the people. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans were for this reform but it lost almost entirely due to the power of a radical right wing fringe group -- the notorious NRA. Obama needs to bring this fight to the PEOPLE. The legislature is USELESS. The only silver lining is that this sets up a major pro Obama shakeup in the next midterm elections.

Strange than that during the last elections the voters didn`t correct this "dysfunctional obstructiomism" ???

[Jingthing]

The U.S. government has become dysfunctional mostly due to republican/right wing obstructionism. The elected officials are supposed to reflect the will of the people. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans were for this reform but it lost almost entirely due to the power of a radical right wing fringe group -- the notorious NRA. Obama needs to bring this fight to the PEOPLE. The legislature is USELESS. The only silver lining is that this sets up a major pro Obama shakeup in the next midterm elections.

Strange than that during the last elections the voters didn`t correct this "dysfunctional obstructiomism" ???

In any given election year, only a minority of Senators are up for election. It's not like the house where they run every 2 years.

[wellred]

I think after the Terrorist bombing in Boston, it will make Americans think again about the gun laws and Obama will have buckley's of getting the law changed now. If anything they will now be buying more to protect their homes.

No they won't. Because they are gun nuts. 'As long as it doesn't happen to me' bla bla bla

[chuckd]

The U.S. government has become dysfunctional mostly due to republican/right wing obstructionism. The elected officials are supposed to reflect the will of the people. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans were for this reform but it lost almost entirely due to the power of a radical right wing fringe group -- the notorious NRA. Obama needs to bring this fight to the PEOPLE. The legislature is USELESS. The only silver lining is that this sets up a major pro Obama shakeup in the next midterm elections.

Strange than that during the last elections the voters didn`t correct this "dysfunctional obstructiomism" ???

In any given election year, only a minority of Senators are up for election. It's not like the house where they run every 2 years.

Not exactly a small minority of them though

One third of them every two years are up for reelection.

33-33-34

[JDGRUEN]

The U.S. government has become dysfunctional mostly due to republican/right wing obstructionism. The elected officials are supposed to reflect the will of the people. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans were for this reform but it lost almost entirely due to the power of a radical right wing fringe group -- the notorious NRA. Obama needs to bring this fight to the PEOPLE. The legislature is USELESS. The only silver lining is that this sets up a major pro Obama shakeup in the next midterm elections.

Strange than that during the last elections the voters didn`t correct this "dysfunctional obstructiomism" ???

In any given election year, only a minority of Senators are up for election. It's not like the house where they run every 2 years.

Democrat Senators number = 53... Independents number = 2 who almost always vote with Democrats. Which means that all the Democrat controlled Senate has to do on any 60 vote requirement issue is to hold their own votes and get 5 Republicans to vote with them. And that is normally not too difficult considering McCain, Graham, Collins, and several others will and do often vote with the Democrat Majority - BUT the Democrats could not do that on the gun control issue. The Democrats lost some of their own - plus couldn't get enough Republicans to come over to their side... Sounds like Democracy to me.

[Jingthing]

Oh please. The vast majority of the democrats voted with the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. The vast majority republicans voted AGAINST the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. They obstructed the will of the people. In my view, this is a massive failure of democracy.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

Obama did not lie, 85% to 90% were for more back round checks including NRA members and Republicans Where do you get your news from. Faux News?

This was a far more comprehensive bill. Background checks were a small part of it. Had they been the only thing, the bill probably would have passed.

But there were too many other ambiguous things in it that would have come under the purview of regulatory agencies who could have then made even more regulations which of course are also laws.

Too many, including senators, saw the bill as an ambiguous slippery slope they didn't want to start down. It attempted to ban certain types of guns too, but they couldn't even agree on the definitions to word the bill in a straightforward way.

So no, neither a majority of Americans nor a majority of senators supported this bill. The results are in.

You might try reading Fox news once in a while. You sure won't get it straight from CNN, MSNBC, any regional liberal newspaper or anyone else in the lamestream media.

[NeverSure]

The bill was bs...in America you have background checks regardless of where you buy a gun legally. Criminals don't follow the laws, don't do background checks. Eric Holder is guilty of running guns illegally to Mexico, and should be arrested. This bill was nothing more than an attempt to control the population by an elitest, statist government. That's not a statement against Democrats alone, the Republicans are just as guilty. America is in trouble, it's freedoms eroding daily, and the sheep lining up mindlessly. Obama lied in his press conference, 90% of Americans don't agree with this bill. To buy a gun online requires it to be shipped to a federally registred gun dealer, who then runs an FBI check on you before he allows you to take the gun home. Gun shows the same way. It's the mindless sheeple who fall for the lies that Obama, Bush and their kind spew.

Obama did not lie, 85% to 90% were for more back round checks including NRA members and Republicans Where do you get your news from. Faux News?

Again, before you continue to call it "Faux News" and ignore it, you might take note that Fox News has about as many viewers as all of the other cable news networks combined.

If you wanted to know the truth about this bill, and why it didn't pass, you would have watched Fox News just as about 1/2 of all other viewers did.

Note that two of the channels competing as "others" are business channels covering the stock markets etc. only. (FBN, CNBC) If you count only general news networks, Fox News Channel has far more than 1/2 of all viewers.

Link

Edited April 20, 2013 by NeverSure

[JDGRUEN]

Oh please. The vast majority of the democrats voted with the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. The vast majority republicans voted AGAINST the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. They obstructed the will of the people. In my view, this is a massive failure of democracy.

Of course you don't... You believe the statistics / surveys you wish to ... and Your Side Lost ... So Too Bad...

[NeverSure]

Oh please. The vast majority of the democrats voted with the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. The vast majority republicans voted AGAINST the overwhelming public opinion on background checks. They obstructed the will of the people. In my view, this is a massive failure of democracy.

It's over. The score is in. The Senators voted what they knew was the will of the people, considering the wording in the bill. Give it a rest.

Do you see that "vast" majority rioting in the streets about it? Where TF is your "vast" majority? Where is the outrage in US towns? Where are the picketers? Where are the bumper stickers, yard signs, and marches on Washington?

Republicans tend to be elected by the more conservative states where people are the biggest gun rights supporters so what did you expect them to do? Vote against the wishes of their respective constituents?

Democrats tend to be elected by the more liberal states, where some gun control would be more popular. But even some of them wanted to be re-elected, and voted against it.

This bill was too onerous even for a lot of libs.

This vote is popular with a majority of Americans. Just because you aren't part of that group, doesn't mean you are correct in your assumptions.

It's over. The minority is whining.