Thailand's Farmer-Friendly Rice Subsidy Backfires

[Tatsujin]

it's called 'the law of unintended consequences', and is often to be found where ignorant politicians decide to foist their pet ideologies on the populace.

The 300-baht minimum wage is suffering from the same effect.

I beg to differ, it's the "I don't give a damn about the consequences" paradigm. Only an idiot, or a brainwashed lemming would not had seen this coming, PTP used the scheme to get elected at the expense of the whole country, it puts any declaration from them that they are working for the Thai people in the B.S. waste bin.

. . . only an idiot, or a brainwashed lemming would not have seen this coming . . .

That covers the Politicians and the majority of the rural masses that voted for them, who else did we miss out?

[belg]

who could even predicted this outcome loooooooooooooooooolllll

[khunken]

Now anybody who watches FOX News realises what a one sided tv station it is. I can only compare it to 'The Nonsense' in its 135th attempt to raise the rise issue as a thread here. Tell those exporters its over and nobody cares about their plight. Tell them please go gracefully and quietly with the billions they have raped on the backs of the poor (my attempt at a 'Churchillian' speech. Seriously Thailand does not need to rely on rice exports, lets grow something else up North. These exporters are an open sore. Please editor no more rice stories, most people dont give a <deleted> about greedy multi billionaires who are having a hard time

If you want to have a rant, get your facts straight first. The article came from Bloomberg not Fox 'News'.

The rice exporters haven't raped anyone. Its the middlemen who actually do the purchasing from the farmers & they are the profiteers as designed by the 'mastermind' of the scam. Unfortunately it is one of the greedy multi-billionaires who is the 'mastermind'.

It is just as well that Thailand doesn't depend on rice exports only but it does demonstrate - along with some of the other subsidies - how to mismanage major schemes to the detriment of the country as a whole.

[PoodMaiDai]

Someone please get Chalerm on the case, he'll sort it out by next Tuesday.

[cardholder]

SURIN, 17 April 2013 (NNT) - More than 150 houses, rice barns and mills, and animal farms in Surin were destroyed after a tropical storm hit this northeastern province last evening.

Authorities said the trail of damages could be seen in Jom Phra and Muang Districts, adding the storm has blown away roofs of many houses a few kilometers away. The provincial rice depot belonging to the government’s rice pledging scheme was also completely torn down by the storm.

Theres some that they wont have to worry about getting rid of.

Wonder what sort of insurance they had if any?

Probably claimed on it already.....

[Greer]

I am for anything that trickels down to the farmers espically the small holdings the middle men get wealthy while the farmer struggles to survive.

Isn't it better to get the money to the farmers instead of into the pockets of a big company that also owns many other businesses including 7-11?

You heard the story of the goose that laid the golden egg right?

In the short term the farmers are laughing - they get more income - today - but for how long?

The economy cant sustain the cost of MILLIONS of TONS of rice going bad in warehouses and being thrown out to make way for more rice that will also go bad in a year or so - its being sold in dribs and drabs, but when the customers all realise that they are being charged money for poor quality or rotten rice, the whole industry will ultimately suffer - this sort of thing can take years to fix - years of NO income for these self same farmers, who could just find that they have virtually no customers for their rice at all.

A very stupid, short term idea that as usual looks good to the poor and the uneducated (who think the Shinawatras are just working class billionaires just like them...maybe not quite), and who just think four inches in front of their nose, instead of looking at the long term sustainability of this disastrous plan.

Bearing fruit - sadly...

[bhakta]

My wife and I actually grow Thai Hom Mali and Thai "sticky rice" on 15 rai in Yasothon. Last year we managed to harvest about 5.5 Metric tons, and sold 4.5 MT to the government for 20,000 Baht per MT, and kept the rest for eating. After paying the tractors to plow, the combine to harvest, and buying a little cow manure and urea for fertilizer, we earned about 50,000 perhaps 60,000 Baht. It is a very very small amount of money considering the time, energy, and costs involved.

[Noistar]

No, No I refuse to believe this, another PTP populist policy has gone wrong ? Impossible

Must be biased reporting (again). Any criticism of PTP usually comes down to this

So PTP and their policies are a raging success ?

Not in my eyes, but I don't wear rose-colored glasses.

My comment was a reference to the tactic often employed by the red supporters.

[Thai at Heart]

My wife and I actually grow Thai Hom Mali and Thai "sticky rice" on 15 rai in Yasothon. Last year we managed to harvest about 5.5 Metric tons, and sold 4.5 MT to the government for 20,000 Baht per MT, and kept the rest for eating. After paying the tractors to plow, the combine to harvest, and buying a little cow manure and urea for fertilizer, we earned about 50,000 perhaps 60,000 Baht. It is a very very small amount of money considering the time, energy, and costs involved.

So side from the water issues, it is essentially unsustainable whatever price is paid.

The current small hold system is utterly unprofitable.

[jbrain]

SURIN, 17 April 2013 (NNT) - More than 150 houses, rice barns and mills, and animal farms in Surin were destroyed after a tropical storm hit this northeastern province last evening.

Authorities said the trail of damages could be seen in Jom Phra and Muang Districts, adding the storm has blown away roofs of many houses a few kilometers away. The provincial rice depot belonging to the government’s rice pledging scheme was also completely torn down by the storm.

Theres some that they wont have to worry about getting rid of.

Wonder what sort of insurance they had if any?

I'm sure it was stocked up to 400% of it's capacity

[rametindallas]

Now anybody who watches FOX News realises what a one sided tv station it is. I can only compare it to 'The Nonsense' in its 135th attempt to raise the rise issue as a thread here. Tell those exporters its over and nobody cares about their plight. Tell them please go gracefully and quietly with the billions they have raped on the backs of the poor (my attempt at a 'Churchillian' speech. Seriously Thailand does not need to rely on rice exports, lets grow something else up North. These exporters are an open sore. Please editor no more rice stories, most people dont give a <deleted> about greedy multi billionaires who are having a hard time

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting. You must be a 'Progressive' as you have no idea how a Market economy functions. I'm going to type this slowly so that you can understand. Thailand grows more rice than Thai people can eat. Thai rice farmers depend on exports to sell their crops. The exporters are not suffering personally as they are wealthy businessmen already. When you want to tell exporters 'it is over', you have just destroyed the livelihood of most rice farmers as no one will buy their rice. The rice exporters make their money on the foreigners they sell to and not 'backs of the poor'. The rice millers make their money off the 'backs of the poor'. 'Thailand' may not need to rely on rice exports but those rice farmers and their families and suppliers and communities do. That you can flippantly say, "lets grow something else up North" (who's the 'us' in let's) shows your hate for successful people outweighs any desire to keep the less fortunate from suffering. In the Chao Praya River valley, a low lying area, rice IS the ideal crop and Thailand WAS the World leader in both quality and quantity for more than a dozen years before this rice buying policy of PT party. There is no way to change crops without massive suffering and social upheaval. BTW, none of these 'rice stories' are pitying the exporters but do reflect the current government squandering precious resources to buy a few votes and the expense of bettering the lives of the rice farmers or the country.

In the not too distant future, when the government can no longer afford to pay 40% above World market price and the stockpiles are huge, the rice farmers will not be able to give away their rice for free because of the glut in the market. I hope they are saving all the extra money they are getting now to help them transition to a new job/lifestyle when they can no longer earn a living from their rice paddies.

[jackspratt]

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting...............

Of course they are, and no doubt you can point to a credible source just to confirm this?

Not that I don't believe you.

Edited April 19, 2013 by jackspratt

[Thai at Heart]

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting...............

Of course they are, and no doubt you can point to a credible source just to confirm this?

Sky news and the Sunday times of london

[jackspratt]

Thank you Rupert.

I am sure rametindallas can come up with something even more authoritative.

[metisdead]

A rather incomprehensible post has been removed as well as a number of replies.

[moe666]

Now anybody who watches FOX News realises what a one sided tv station it is. I can only compare it to 'The Nonsense' in its 135th attempt to raise the rise issue as a thread here. Tell those exporters its over and nobody cares about their plight. Tell them please go gracefully and quietly with the billions they have raped on the backs of the poor (my attempt at a 'Churchillian' speech. Seriously Thailand does not need to rely on rice exports, lets grow something else up North. These exporters are an open sore. Please editor no more rice stories, most people dont give a <deleted> about greedy multi billionaires who are having a hard time

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting. You must be a 'Progressive' as you have no idea how a Market economy functions. I'm going to type this slowly so that you can understand. Thailand grows more rice than Thai people can eat. Thai rice farmers depend on exports to sell their crops. The exporters are not suffering personally as they are wealthy businessmen already. When you want to tell exporters 'it is over', you have just destroyed the livelihood of most rice farmers as no one will buy their rice. The rice exporters make their money on the foreigners they sell to and not 'backs of the poor'. The rice millers make their money off the 'backs of the poor'. 'Thailand' may not need to rely on rice exports but those rice farmers and their families and suppliers and communities do. That you can flippantly say, "lets grow something else up North" (who's the 'us' in let's) shows your hate for successful people outweighs any desire to keep the less fortunate from suffering. In the Chao Praya River valley, a low lying area, rice IS the ideal crop and Thailand WAS the World leader in both quality and quantity for more than a dozen years before this rice buying policy of PT party. There is no way to change crops without massive suffering and social upheaval. BTW, none of these 'rice stories' are pitying the exporters but do reflect the current government squandering precious resources to buy a few votes and the expense of bettering the lives of the rice farmers or the country.

In the not too distant future, when the government can no longer afford to pay 40% above World market price and the stockpiles are huge, the rice farmers will not be able to give away their rice for free because of the glut in the market. I hope they are saving all the extra money they are getting now to help them transition to a new job/lifestyle when they can no longer earn a living from their rice paddies.

heheeh I do not think backtonormal is a progressive and believe it or not there are plenty of progressives who understand the workings of the market including myself. Get of your right wing stool and come down to earth

[waza]

"On April 15 the Ivory Coast’s Commerce Ministry said it had bought “various qualities” of Thai rice at “competitive and stable” prices. Four months after the 38,500 tons arrived, however, the Ivorian government has had to trash 7,600 tons because of quality problems,"

OMB, no chance of a repeat customer there.

The rice scamming scheme is only in its second years and costing 4% of GDP to maintain. The criminal Thaksin's government needs that Baht 2.2 trillion fast to cover the economic sink holes in the Thai budget.

from this

to this, is this Thailands future?

[rametindallas]

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting...............

Of course they are, and no doubt you can point to a credible source just to confirm this?

Not that I don't believe you.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/01/06/study-is-fox-too-balanced-

http://kungfoo.com/content/view/5130

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/fox-news-fair-and-balance_n_1016455.html

[rametindallas]

Now anybody who watches FOX News realises what a one sided tv station it is. I can only compare it to 'The Nonsense' in its 135th attempt to raise the rise issue as a thread here. Tell those exporters its over and nobody cares about their plight. Tell them please go gracefully and quietly with the billions they have raped on the backs of the poor (my attempt at a 'Churchillian' speech. Seriously Thailand does not need to rely on rice exports, lets grow something else up North. These exporters are an open sore. Please editor no more rice stories, most people dont give a <deleted> about greedy multi billionaires who are having a hard time

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting. You must be a 'Progressive' as you have no idea how a Market economy functions. I'm going to type this slowly so that you can understand. Thailand grows more rice than Thai people can eat. Thai rice farmers depend on exports to sell their crops. The exporters are not suffering personally as they are wealthy businessmen already. When you want to tell exporters 'it is over', you have just destroyed the livelihood of most rice farmers as no one will buy their rice. The rice exporters make their money on the foreigners they sell to and not 'backs of the poor'. The rice millers make their money off the 'backs of the poor'. 'Thailand' may not need to rely on rice exports but those rice farmers and their families and suppliers and communities do. That you can flippantly say, "lets grow something else up North" (who's the 'us' in let's) shows your hate for successful people outweighs any desire to keep the less fortunate from suffering. In the Chao Praya River valley, a low lying area, rice IS the ideal crop and Thailand WAS the World leader in both quality and quantity for more than a dozen years before this rice buying policy of PT party. There is no way to change crops without massive suffering and social upheaval. BTW, none of these 'rice stories' are pitying the exporters but do reflect the current government squandering precious resources to buy a few votes and the expense of bettering the lives of the rice farmers or the country.

In the not too distant future, when the government can no longer afford to pay 40% above World market price and the stockpiles are huge, the rice farmers will not be able to give away their rice for free because of the glut in the market. I hope they are saving all the extra money they are getting now to help them transition to a new job/lifestyle when they can no longer earn a living from their rice paddies.

heheeh I do not think backtonormal is a progressive and believe it or not there are plenty of progressives who understand the workings of the market including myself. Get of your right wing stool and come down to earth

I don't think all Progressive are the same just as all Conservatives aren't the same. You shouldn't feel the need to defend Progressivism just because backtonormal does not represent your view of Progressives. Some of my best friends are Progressives. When someone writes about "backs of the poor" and speaks with class hatred, he if from the far, far, Left because no one on the Right talks like that. I never said all Progressives are ignorant but it is true many Progressives know a lot of things that really aren't true as exemplified in backtonormal's rant. If you must know, and to stop your guessing, my political view is Libertarian, small government. I believe people who win popularity contests (politicians) are distinctly unqualified to run the economy or push their moral values. I'm 100% social liberal and 100% fiscal conservative which is why Republicans and Democrats are anathema to me.

Edited April 19, 2013 by rametindallas

[kimamey]

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting...............

Of course they are, and no doubt you can point to a credible source just to confirm this?

Sky news and the Sunday times of london

I don't watch Fox news so I can't comment on its bias or lack of it although I know it's often criticised. I'm sure others will tell you that Rupert Murdoch and his companies are heavily involved in Fox news, Sky news and the Sunday Times.

[Thai at Heart]

Independent sources have rated FOX news as near the top of 'balanced' news reporting...............

Of course they are, and no doubt you can point to a credible source just to confirm this?

Sky news and the Sunday times of london

I don't watch Fox news so I can't comment on its bias or lack of it although I know it's often criticised. I'm sure others will tell you that Rupert Murdoch and his companies are heavily involved in Fox news, Sky news and the Sunday Times.

Hence the logic of saying that sky and the times might claim Fox to be unbiased. Anyone having glen beck as a contributor is barely on the scale of political measurement.

[moe666]

From time to time I have had the unfortunate experience of watching Fox and frommy prespective they do lean to the right of the political divide. Sarah Palin has worked for them in the past, Huckabee still has a show on Fox, Glenn Beck now gone worked for them, that is just a few of the right wing mouth pieces who made a feww dollars there. Not to say that makes them biased but one has to wonder.

Edited April 21, 2013 by moe666

[moe666]

"On April 15 the Ivory Coast’s Commerce Ministry said it had bought “various qualities” of Thai rice at “competitive and stable” prices. Four months after the 38,500 tons arrived, however, the Ivorian government has had to trash 7,600 tons because of quality problems,"

OMB, no chance of a repeat customer there.

The rice scamming scheme is only in its second years and costing 4% of GDP to maintain. The criminal Thaksin's government needs that Baht 2.2 trillion fast to cover the economic sink holes in the Thai budget.

rice stockpile 1.jpg from this

Rotten rice.jpg to this, is this Thailands future?

On a recent motorbike trip thru Supanburi saw exactly what is depicted in these photos. On one side of the road was a wearhouse with the bagged rice in the same disarray as the bottom photo and across the road there were stacks of rice 3 to 5 meters high all expose to the outdoors.

[willyumiii]

it's called 'the law of unintended consequences', and is often to be found where ignorant politicians decide to foist their pet ideologies on the populace.

The 300-baht minimum wage is suffering from the same effect.

Law says 300 Baht per day The reality is Thai farmers still pay 200 Baht per day.

Is it any wonder that farm labor is difficult to find now?

[cooked]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. The subsidies do not trickle down to the small farmers, nobody bothers in our village for various reasons. One of them is that they have to estimate the quantity of rice they will be harvesting next time and they then get the money. If the harvest is low, then they have to pay back. Then there are all sorts of scams concerning moisture content, weed seeds,etc. Transport has to be paid for. We were happy to get ฿15.50 /Kg cash in hand even though the facility has a big notice up outside offering ฿17.-. Making about ฿20 000.- as a major part of the family's yearly income.

It does trickle down to big owners of paddy fields, one family called Toxin or something like that near Chiang Mai has made millions from this scheme/scam.

[waza]

"On April 15 the Ivory Coast’s Commerce Ministry said it had bought “various qualities” of Thai rice at “competitive and stable” prices. Four months after the 38,500 tons arrived, however, the Ivorian government has had to trash 7,600 tons because of quality problems,"

OMB, no chance of a repeat customer there.

The rice scamming scheme is only in its second years and costing 4% of GDP to maintain. The criminal Thaksin's government needs that Baht 2.2 trillion fast to cover the economic sink holes in the Thai budget.

rice stockpile 1.jpg from this

Rotten rice.jpg to this, is this Thailands future?

On a recent motorbike trip thru Supanburi saw exactly what is depicted in these photos. On one side of the road was a wearhouse with the bagged rice in the same disarray as the bottom photo and across the road there were stacks of rice 3 to 5 meters high all expose to the outdoors.

could you post some pictures. Its so sad to see the countries future rotting away.

[moe666]

"On April 15 the Ivory Coast’s Commerce Ministry said it had bought “various qualities” of Thai rice at “competitive and stable” prices. Four months after the 38,500 tons arrived, however, the Ivorian government has had to trash 7,600 tons because of quality problems,"

OMB, no chance of a repeat customer there.

The rice scamming scheme is only in its second years and costing 4% of GDP to maintain. The criminal Thaksin's government needs that Baht 2.2 trillion fast to cover the economic sink holes in the Thai budget.

rice stockpile 1.jpg from this

Rotten rice.jpg to this, is this Thailands future?

On a recent motorbike trip thru Supanburi saw exactly what is depicted in these photos. On one side of the road was a wearhouse with the bagged rice in the same disarray as the bottom photo and across the road there were stacks of rice 3 to 5 meters high all expose to the outdoors.

could you post some pictures. Its so sad to see the countries future rotting away.

sorry have none as we were on out way to Hau Hin at the time

[Dap]

It is a directive to achieve a payback for seizure of Thaksin's assets whilst on the surface continuing to appear to being their revered saviour. Som Num Na.

Yeah, pretty weird huh?

But, spot-on methinks.

[Dap]

I am for anything that trickels down to the farmers espically the small holdings the middle men get wealthy while the farmer struggles to survive.

Instead of a trickle down to farmers the Democrats had a scheme whereby a subsidy was paid directly to the farmer. It was less open to corruption so it's surprising PT didn't implement similar.

Not surprising at all if you can see the flaw that PTP understood. You simply are unable to siphon anything off what goes directly to the farmer.

[tartempion]

The culprit: a Thai government policy that pays local farmers vastly inflated prices for their rice.

Strange, but the rice farmers in my village are not aware of a government scheme paying them vastly inflated prices for their rice.

First, they keep their rice production for their own need feeding the family, any surplus is driven to the nearby rice mill where it get sold for peanuts as usual.

The rice mills then sell the rice at vastly inflated prices to the government, as agreed by said government