At What Point Isn't Corruption Not "charming" Anymore ?

[Markaew]

I agree - I don't pay taxes here (other than VAT) so why should I have

any right to criticise or praise what is done with Thai government

funds. I get to use the roads, the infrastructure (no wisecracks

please), and yet I hardly contribute a cent towards the maintenance or

capital cost of that infrastructure.

I will say that "corruption" is endemic in Asia, and has been for

thousands of years, long before we westerners really had any real

culture. (I'm talking post Roman Conquest here.) It's a way of life in

Asia, and let's face it corruption was endemic in most western

cultures/governments until the late 19th or early 20th century.

i'd like to add that corruption is not limited to Asia but exists on a global

scale. the only difference is the level of corruption.

many rainy seasons ago i took over a rather big industrial project (under

construction) in Nigeria. nothing would have worked without me adapting

to "set and accepted local standards" which (for a newbie like me), were

nothing but hair raising plain theft, fraud and embezzlement. no container

was cleared, no foreign currency allocated, no work permit approved

without greasing palms.

on a lighter side... a couple of years later, the plant being operational, i

added to the agenda of a board meeting "review of CEO's remuneration".

during the meeting i asked politely for said review by pointing to my contract

which contained the clause "remuneration to be increased in line with

domestic inflation rate". after a minute or so silence and another couple of

minutes whispering and yakking in tribal language there was roaring laughter

and the company secretary was instructed by the chairman to note "motion

to increase CEO remuneration by 20% unanimously approved."

when i asked the secretary (a lawyer) later what the laughter was all about

he grinned broadly and explained that i was considered to be an honest

dummy² because anybody in my position could siphon per month a multiple

of the increase i was awarded per annum.

So if I use your logic then corruption is everywhere so it's perfectly ok to have it here as well.

[Markaew]

We all know, that a fair amount of those money, are going to end up in

the wrong pockets. Which most to us is not acceptable, simply due to the

big amounts we are talking about.

it is none of our (expats) business to judge what is acceptable/charming or not

in our "host" country. moreover, no bitching will change the situation.

It is my business when some official refuses to do what they are paid to do and demands money from me before they will do it.

I "bitched" and something was done so you can effect change.

you bitched and affected the result of one single, most probably miniscule, corruption demand. it had however no effect at all as far as the daily millions of corruption cases are concerned.

You are obviously Thai because I haven't seen anyone in TV defend corruption before.

[spectrumisgreen]

We all know, that a fair amount of those money, are going to end up in

the wrong pockets. Which most to us is not acceptable, simply due to the

big amounts we are talking about.

it is none of our (expats) business to judge what is acceptable/charming or not

in our "host" country. moreover, no bitching will change the situation.

Erm.. corruption isn't 'charming' or 'acceptable' pretty much by definition of it being.. you know.. 'corruption'!! Not about it being 'not our business to judge', something is what it is.. and isn't what it isn't! Just facts really! No, 'bitching' will not change the situation but it doesn't mean you have to pretend its okay or that you don't understand what it is or even that you must accept it if it happens to you.. wherever you are...

[Markaew]

Has anyone experienced getting personal effects through customs.

This happened to me a couple of years ago. We (my wife & myself) arrived at the customs at the point of entry. We were immediately accosted by a woman who insisted on helping us through customs. At first I resisted but then accepted her offer (to my good fortune). She knew where to go, what papers to fill in, what officials to bribe to get priority service etc, etc.

In the end her services were invaluable and we got our goods cleared in a couple of hours. I understand that if we do not "employ" such a person, clearing customs could take days & much frustration.

In the end she did not charge very much & all were very grateful.

Yes I have. I did it the hard way and paid way too much money. I had to weigh the price of forfeiting my possessions to paying the huge amount of money. I almost just told them to keep it, but then still win because they take your stuff home. Finally, I threatened to just walk and they came down a bit on the amount.

As per your helper, I have found as long as you get fleeced by any Thai the government will be lenient on the bribe. They just want your pockets emptied before you go.

[theblether]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

A cheap shot at a not native speaker from the "postmaster" himself !

I know the topic headline is not good English, but can't edit it! Mods feel free to do it.

Cheap shot indeed.

Can I wonder how many languages the postmasters speaks?

Four......next question?

[theblether]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

A cheap shot at a not native speaker from the "postmaster" himself !

I know the topic headline is not good English, but can't edit it! Mods feel free to do it.

If you are going to have a thin skin you should consider posting elsewhere. Attacks come freely here.

The joke is that soi41 is perfectly capable of going on the attack in random and vicious ways.

Then like a school ground bully he runs to teacher when someone tweaks his ear.

How about all those that think TV is for trolling and venting their spleen adopting a new hobby, let's say.......playing tig with buses?

Sounds like a plan to me.

[soi41]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

A cheap shot at a not native speaker from the "postmaster" himself !

I know the topic headline is not good English, but can't edit it! Mods feel free to do it.

If you are going to have a thin skin you should consider posting elsewhere. Attacks come freely here.

I am thick skinned allright! Been called many names here. I don't have a problem for being attacked for the content of my posts, but being ridiculed for my grammar or spelling, is in my book still a cheap shot!

Especially considering, that my English are just as good as many native speakers here on TV.

[OZEMADE]

It's not charming or acceptable anymore, when the guy you were trying to bribe, may be a goodie and locks you up. I know it is a remote chance, but beware.

[rene123]

Corruption is not good anywhere. It cuts down on efficiency and escalates costs dramatically. Unfortunately, it is part of life, and in Thailand it is much more visible. Corruption is almost as common in the western world, but at much higher levels where it's not as noticeable to the common public. I would hazard a guess that several wars that the USA have been involved in are a direct result of corruption at higher levels.

[theblether]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

A cheap shot at a not native speaker from the "postmaster" himself !

I know the topic headline is not good English, but can't edit it! Mods feel free to do it.

If you are going to have a thin skin you should consider posting elsewhere. Attacks come freely here.

I am thick skinned allright! Been called many names here. I don't have a problem for being attacked for the content of my posts, but being ridiculed for my grammar or spelling, is in my book still a cheap shot!

Especially considering, that my English are just as good as many native speakers here on TV.

Don't be playing the part of the victim now soi41, when you're on form your great, but you spend far too much time handing out bile and stupidity.

So be a good boy and play nice.

[Banzai99]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Banzai99

[Markaew]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

A cheap shot at a not native speaker from the "postmaster" himself !

I know the topic headline is not good English, but can't edit it! Mods feel free to do it.

If you are going to have a thin skin you should consider posting elsewhere. Attacks come freely here.

I am thick skinned allright! Been called many names here. I don't have a problem for being attacked for the content of my posts, but being ridiculed for my grammar or spelling, is in my book still a cheap shot!

Especially considering, that my English are just as good as many native speakers here on TV.

Now you are just being emotional. Try to stick to the OP. I believe corruption was the topic.

[Markaew]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Sounds like you are bragging about corruption. It's nice to have some representatives of the 62% of Thais that support corruption with us to have a balanced debate. You are a minority here.

[maxme]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Ah yes, the defender of... hmm, I forgot...

Edited April 22, 2013 by maxme

[Banzai99]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Ah yes, the defender of... hmm, I forgot...

So, you would sacrifice and go to prison for years even if you had a way to bribe somebody and walk away?

Jesus has returned folks and he's a ThaiVisa member.

[Keith67]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Absolute BS, most farange are raised in a society where corruption is not acceptable any more, so why would you assume that they would want to be involved in it in a country where they would never really have the ability to know or trust the people they would be bribing? paying off a police officer for a few KPH over the limit is 1 thing being involved in something that could put lives in danger is completely different. Paying off a ploice officer for a drink driving offence is still something i feel would be frowned upon by most farang.

[maxme]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Ah yes, the defender of... hmm, I forgot...

So, you would sacrifice and go to prison for years even if you had a way to bribe somebody and walk away?

Jesus has returned folks and he's a ThaiVisa member.

There are other ways to fix a problem obviously you haven´t been raised in the proper manner of taking care of your own problems.

[Globeman]

We all know, that a fair amount of those money, are going to end up in

the wrong pockets. Which most to us is not acceptable, simply due to the

big amounts we are talking about.

it is none of our (expats) business to judge what is acceptable/charming or not

in our "host" country. moreover, no bitching will change the situation.

Sorry, but the "we have no right to judge" argument is misguided nonsense. Anyone has the right to criticise any world event regardless of their nationality or whom they pay taxes to. We make observations and we share them with each other. Since when does the right to criticise have to be earned? Only Thais are allowed, under your code of honour, to discuss corruption in Thailand? So did foreigners have no right to judge the Khmer Rouge slaughtering their own population - and not to discuss it because bitching wouldn't stop the genocide? How about when Thailand had the coup in 2006? Was it okay to judge that? I can think of a lot of foreign investors who quite rightly believed they had a right to be informed of what was happening - and the inherent criticisms that implies - regardless of whether the reporters were guests in the oh-so-gracious host country or not.

Why are you even on the thaivisa forums, which are, for the most part, dedicated to passing judgment on this country?

And yes, no amount of bitching about right and wrong, injustice and thievery will stop it occurring, but do you really believe that people should just stop talking about these things? What topics are people allowed to talk about?

[Banzai99]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Paying off a ploice officer for a drink driving offence is still something i feel would be frowned upon by most farang.

Yes, on an internet Forum it's easy to frown upon everything one percieves as wrong, but in the cold light of day, they would do whatever was neccessary to save themselves, so would I and so would you.

[Neeranam]

When it doesn't work directly in our favour....

Best post on this thread.

Short, simple and says it all.

[chrisinth]

No successful government anywhere in the world can function correctly without corruption...............

Sorry, that is not really relevant to Thailand.................

[Banzai99]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Ah yes, the defender of... hmm, I forgot...

So, you would sacrifice and go to prison for years even if you had a way to bribe somebody and walk away?

Jesus has returned folks and he's a ThaiVisa member.

There are other ways to fix a problem obviously you haven´t been raised in the proper manner of taking care of your own problems.

Pray tell me what you would do in a situation that was very serious but you had the opportunity to grease some palms and walk away ?

Be honest.

[Keith67]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Paying off a ploice officer for a drink driving offence is still something i feel would be frowned upon by most farang.

Yes, on an internet Forum it's easy to frown upon everything one percieves as wrong, but in the cold light of day, they would do whatever was neccessary to save themselves, so would I and so would you.

A pay off would not be offered for the offence you stated as a far larger sum of money would be gained through the legal chanels, i.e. payments to the family plus fines and the fact a conviction for a more serious crime was achieved.

[maxme]

No successful government anywhere in the world can function correctly without corruption...............

Sorry, that is not really relevant to Thailand.................

Why does "Neoconservatism" comes to mind?

[Banzai99]

Farang seem to have selective corruption syndrome.

If they directly benefit from said corruption, everything is fine, motoring offences comes to mind, how many Farangs would jump at the opportunity to buy their way out of a serious offence, like causing death whilst under the influence for instance ?

And anyone here who says they would refuse the opportunity to pay their way out and spend years in Prison instead is a liar or mad or both.

Yet they rant and rave if a Thai does the very same thing.The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

It's the Thais that get the monetary gains though, that's what really hurts, once again they are outsiders, once again they are not on the recieving end never can or will be, all they can ever do is pay, never recieve, and look on as a Policeman gets in his new Mercedes.

Paying off a ploice officer for a drink driving offence is still something i feel would be frowned upon by most farang.

Yes, on an internet Forum it's easy to frown upon everything one percieves as wrong, but in the cold light of day, they would do whatever was neccessary to save themselves, so would I and so would you.

A pay off would not be offered for the offence you stated as a far larger sum of money would be gained through the legal chanels, i.e. payments to the family plus fines and the fact a conviction for a more serious crime was achieved.

Tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

[NoshowJones]

Ok, I will bite. Naam is right that it is none of our business and not our home so there is not much we can do about it. But if you are asking what effect does corruption have on society. I think that any corruption is not a positive thing for society. Yes, if you run a red light, or speed and get caught it seems great to only pay a few baht instead of the real fine. However, isn't it frustrating when you have done nothing wrong and you get pulled over because the Colonel needs some cash. We can all see how corruption effects the roads we have to travel on here in Thailand. The roads are filled with people with no regard for the law or other people on the road.

A society that accepts small corruption will accept some a little bigger, and then a little bigger until you have endemic corruption at every level. In my mind, all corruption is a drag on society. I puts people in danger. Maybe the construction company sells some of its rebar to save money. I have heard of that happening here. Maybe a student doesn't know all he or she should because they paid their way through school. Great for the student, but what if that is your doctor.

Sorry, I think corruption is not charming on any level. Whether it is my culture or some other culture.

I agree that corruption is not charming at any level, but you do what suits yourself, if the BIB pull you up for speeding you give maybe 200 Baht, rather than pay a lot more along with a lot of hassle, but if you were genuinely speeding, you deserve all you get, but if you are walking down the street, and the BIB want you to hand over your'e wallet, I would refuse, but if they were looking for drugs I would take my money out first, no matter what they say.

[Tatsujin]

We all know, that a fair amount of those money, are going to end up in

the wrong pockets. Which most to us is not acceptable, simply due to the

big amounts we are talking about.

it is none of our (expats) business to judge what is acceptable/charming or not

in our "host" country. moreover, no bitching will change the situation.

That was sarcasm, right?

[Neeranam]

The fact that Farangs have nothing to offer in Thailand that could ellicit a bribe embitters them, but they are willing to pay bribes that are of benefit to themselves.

Speak for yourself, there are many farang here(hopefully myself included) with a lot to offer, I benefit from corrupt acts and not scared to admit it.

[maxme]

@Banzai99

Pray
tell me what you would do in a situation that was very serious but you
had the opportunity to grease some palms and walk away ?

Be honest.//

Maybe being smart and not end up in a Thai jail would be a start... But making connections and friends would probably be more of a useful advice. This would go for any country you move to.

[Tatsujin]

I hope the BiB never introduce fines for grammar

It's grammer isn't it?