Thai Gf First Visit To Uk Refused - What Next?

[7by7]

............ then you shouldn't really be surprised if she's turned down for a Visitor's Visa as these are primarily for people who want to visit the UK on holiday.

Rubbish.

Visit visas are for people who wish to visit the UK for any legal purpose.

Whist there are different categories depending on the reason for the visit, family visit, student visit, entertainer visit etc., there is no such thing as a holiday visa.

If none of the specific categories apply, then the visitor applies for a general visit; and tourists would come under this.

As do those visiting friends.

Edited May 1, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

Garry,

1) Not really, simply explain that this is how you phone her. The ECOs are aware of low cost international call options.

2) Being a technophobe, not really on the ball with this! But seems fine to me.

3) As it is you sponsoring her, not her aunt I don't really see the need for a letter from the aunt. But saying she will visit her aunt whilst in the UK and providing a copy of the email wont hurt. Remember to include the aunt on the application form where it asks if she has any relatives living in the UK.

4) As I said earlier, not having hotel receipts in both names should not be a problem; simply explain that as you made the booking and paid with your credit card the hotel gave you a receipt in your name only.

Photos of you with her family are good as it shows that you have met them.

If you can show that the relationship is genuine and the reason for her visit is genuine then her having no assets in Thailand is less of a problem. Explain the situation in your sponsor's letter an briefly outline you plans together for the future.

I can't see anything that you have missed.

But bear in mind that in this application she has to do more than simply deal with the reasons for the last one being refused.

Yes, she has to do that; but each application is treated on it's own merits, so treat it as a completely new one and make sure you have covered everything.

[brewsterbudgen]

............ then you shouldn't really be surprised if she's turned down for a Visitor's Visa as these are primarily for people who want to visit the UK on holiday.

Rubbish.

Visit visas are for people who wish to visit the UK for any legal purpose.

Whist there are different categories depending on the reason for the visit, family visit, student visit, entertainer visit etc., there is no such thing as a holiday visa.

If none of the specific categories apply, then the visitor applies for a general visit; and tourists would come under this.

As do those visiting friends.

Thanks for the clarification. I still think the OP should advise his GF to apply for a shorter visit, and it appears he is going to do that.

[GarryUK]

I never hid the fact that I met her in Pattaya where she worked in Family Mart (I even included a picture of her in her uniform at work), but I've never mentioned staying in her apartment. After we met she gave everything up and moved back home because I too didn't like the idea of her staying in Pattaya, too many (incorrect) assumptions for people to make about what's she's doing behind my back.

I thought you said last year that your girlfriend was a freelancer who you met after your previous girlfriend dumped you - is this a different girlfriend?

I apologise if I have got this wrong, I will admit to not reading all your threads in their entirety.

Family Mart paid so bad so she was already "supplimenting her income" when I met her.

Edited May 2, 2013 by GarryUK

[rgs2001uk]

I never hid the fact that I met her in Pattaya where she worked in Family Mart (I even included a picture of her in her uniform at work), but I've never mentioned staying in her apartment. After we met she gave everything up and moved back home because I too didn't like the idea of her staying in Pattaya, too many (incorrect) assumptions for people to make about what's she's doing behind my back.

I thought you said last year that your girlfriend was a freelancer who you met after your previous girlfriend dumped you - is this a different girlfriend?

I apologise if I have got this wrong, I will admit to not reading all your threads in their entirety.

Family Mart paid so bad so she was already "supplimenting her income" when I met her.

Well I suppose it makes a change from the usual, "she worked in the Bkk bank"

This just keeps getting better.

You mention a 3 year old kid and sin sot.

If she has a 3 year old kid, chances are she was married before, which means sin sot has already been paid.

Why would you feel the need to pay again?

Why would you feel the need to pay for land the family already own.

I recommend you do some reading on sin sot.

Whats going to happen to the kid if your g/f comes to the UK and marries you, will the kid come to, have you thought about the fathers permission for his child to leave the country?

[meatboy]

looks like we are being led up the garden again by the op,why dont they come clean in the begining so we know what answers to give him,visa for your gf.forget it.

[JLCrab]

Well the US may be prejudiced but they don't leave a lot of wiggle room on the DS-160 Tourist Visa application:

Are you coming to the United States to engage in prostitution or unlawful commercialized vice or have you been engaged in prostitution or procuring prostitutes within the past 10 years?

Saves everybody at lot of time and expense.

[brewsterbudgen]

Well the US may be prejudiced but they don't leave a lot of wiggle room on the DS-160 Tourist Visa application:

Are you coming to the United States to engage in prostitution or unlawful commercialized vice or have you been engaged in prostitution or procuring prostitutes within the past 10 years?

Saves everybody at lot of time and expense.

Luckily for the UK is isn't an issue, and such a question doesn't exist.

[JLCrab]

Maybe not. But the UKBA does ask:

5.11 Do you receive income from any other sources, including friends or family?

6.14 Have you engaged in any other activities that might indicate that you may not be considered a person of good character?

Then you must declare:

10. I hereby apply for a visa/entry clearance to the United Kingdom. The information I have given is complete and true to the best of my knowledge.

Edited May 3, 2013 by JLCrab

[brewsterbudgen]

Maybe not. But the UKBA does ask:

5.11 Do you receive income from any other sources, including friends or family?

6.14 Have you engaged in any other activities that might indicate that you may not be considered a person of good character?

Then you must declare:

10. I hereby apply for a visa/entry clearance to the United Kingdom. The information I have given is complete and true to the best of my knowledge.

All the bargirls I know are of extremely good character, so no issue.

[JLCrab]

As to the character of the bar girls you have known and otherwise, I'll just take your word for it. I'm sure they would report ALL their sources of income including their share of the bar fines.

Edited May 3, 2013 by JLCrab

[7by7]

rgs2001uk, I can see no mention of Garry's girlfriend having a child, can you show me where he says so?

He does say that she helps look after her niece, though!

JLCrab, from what you have posted, both here and elsewhere, it is obvious that you have absolutely no knowledge of the UK's immigration rules and procedures.

I have the same level of knowledge about those of the USA's; i.e. none at all; which is why I refrain from commenting on them!

I've said it before, and will say it again: ex bar girls do get UK visas; liars don't.

What the attitude of US immigration is in such circumstances is completely irrelevant to this topic.

I do agree that talk of sinsot at this stage is premature, and will have no bearing on her visa application anyway.

[disagree]

wouldn't it have been easier for her to apply to see her aunt instead

[7by7]

If that was the main purpose of her visit; yes.

But it isn't.

[7by7]

No, but if she said that she was coming to the UK to visit her aunt then it is the aunt and her husband who would have to sponsor the visit; provide financial and accommodation evidence etc.

Even if they were willing to lie on her behalf it could come back to bite her on the bum when/if she later applies for settlement or wishes to visit Garry in the UK again.

It would also be looked at very carefully by the ECO as she has already been refused a visa where she said the purpose of the visit was to see Garry; ECOs do check these things.

Even though people have doubtless done similar in the past and got away with it; it's not recommended.

Using false information in an attempt to obtain a UK visa is a serious matter and can result in a 10 year, or in extreme cases lifetime, ban from entering the UK; whether the lie is discovered at the application stage, upon entering the UK or even at a later date after the visit is over.

[Waterloo]

If that was the main purpose of her visit; yes.

But it isn't.

from what I remember there's no gestapo checking exactly what you're doing in the UK as tourist on a daily basis

No but as he will want te apply for a settlement visa in the future if things go as he hopes then he has to cross this bridge now.

[disagree]

No, but if she said that she was coming to the UK to visit her aunt then it is the aunt and her husband who would have to sponsor the visit; provide financial and accommodation evidence etc.

Even if they were willing to lie on her behalf it could come back to bite her on the bum when/if she later applies for settlement or wishes to visit Garry in the UK again.

It would also be looked at very carefully by the ECO as she has already been refused a visa where she said the purpose of the visit was to see Garry; ECOs do check these things.

Even though people have doubtless done similar in the past and got away with it; it's not recommended.

Using false information in an attempt to obtain a UK visa is a serious matter and can result in a 10 year, or in extreme cases lifetime, ban from entering the UK; whether the lie is discovered at the application stage, upon entering the UK or even at a later date after the visit is over.

now it's too late, that's a given; this route has closed for the time being.

but if she visited her aunt, they could have then for the next time provided evidence that they also met in the UK regularly and gotten to know each other better

it's not a lie if you visit your aunt. you don't have to hang around her all the time. that's not false information

[7by7]

So you are saying that she should have said in the application that she was visiting her aunt, and then when applying for settlement said that whilst in the UK she spent most of the time with her British boyfriend;

• who she had met in Thailand before applying to visit her aunt,
• who had visited her there several times before she applied to visit her aunt,
• who had met her family in Thailand before she applied to visit her aunt,
• who was regularly communicating with her via various means while he was in the UK and she in Thailand,
• who regularly sent her money to help support herself
• who provided the finances for the visit to her aunt,
• who she lived with while she was in the UK visiting her aunt?

You then expect the ECO to believe her application to visit her aunt was genuine?

Crazy!

It is a lie if she applies for a family visit visa to visit her aunt when the main purpose of the visit is to see and spend time with her boyfriend; to do this she should apply for a general visit visa.

The application forms for both do ask what is the main purpose of your visit!

Edited May 3, 2013 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

Off topic remark removed, and remark regarding removal deleted.

[disagree]

So you are saying that she should have said in the application that she was visiting her aunt, and then when applying for settlement said that whilst in the UK she spent most of the time with her British boyfriend;

• who she had met in Thailand before applying to visit her aunt,
• who had visited her there several times;she applied;to visit her aunt,
• who had met her family in Thailand before she applied to visit her aunt,
• who was regularly communicating with her via various means while he was in the UK and she in Thailand,
• who regularly sent her money to help support herself who provided the finances for the visit to her aunt,
• who she lived with while she was in the UK visiting her aunt? Crazy

You then expect the ECO to believe her application to visit her aunt was genuine?

Crazy!

It is a lie if she applies for a family visit visa to visit her aunt when the main purpose of the visit is to see and spend time with her boyfriend; to do this she should apply for a general visit visa. The application forms for both do ask what is the main purpose of your visit!

how is this crazy?

i'm sorry but visiting family members in a foreign country to get to know a potential spouse better is exactly how other people handle such matters to have a safe-haven to fall back on in case something goes wrong in the relationship. this is what my polish gf was doing while she was visiting me in mallorca as well; she was staying with her uncle; and once she and her family was more comfortable about my intentions she was hanging around with me more. she was young, and i could fully understand her family's opinion on this. i don't see anything crazy with that approach. this approach is called 'don't give yourself fully away to a potential rapist'

the other way you express it is rather more of the unusual way by 'traditional' western standards. 'oh you want to move to a guy in a foreign country who you've only seen a few weeks - without any fallback solution?'

i'm not here to diss the OP. i'm just pointing out another valid possibility of how this could have been handled

[JLCrab]

I made several initial comments on this topic which received many 'Likes' referring to the fact that the couple in question met in OCT 2012, that they have not spent much time physical in each other's company, and that they are basing their relationship in large part on long distance communication. When I asked in post #20 'How did they meet?', I was merely asking whether they met in person in Thailand or they met via the internet. Nothing more.

I did not realize at the time that there was a previous topic prior to when the (first) visa application was submitted.

Edited May 3, 2013 by JLCrab

[7by7]

disagree,

as both Poland and Spain are both members of the Schengen area, the EU and the EEA, your Polish girlfriend would not need any type of visa to visit Mallorca; no matter what the purpose of her visit.

Unless it was before 2004, which was when Poland joined the EU.

Read my replies to you again.

I am not saying that staying with family whilst getting to know a potential boyfriend is crazy.

What I am saying is that lying in a UK visa application is crazy; particularly when, for the reasons already stated, the lie is so easily discovered and has potentially disastrous consequences when it is discovered.

Plus, in this case Garry and his girlfriend do know each other very well, which, from what you say, was not the case with you and your Polish girlfriend.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. You think lying in a UK visa application is a good idea; I don't.

[7by7]

I made several initial comments on this topic which received many 'Likes'

Indeed you did; but unfortunately those who liked the following

I am an American so I cannot comment specifically on the British UKBA system. But the notion that a Thai citizen can come to visit you in UK so you both can better develop the relationship is not how Immigration departments anywhere look at it. They want for you to establish the relationship before they will grant the right for a person requiring a visa to visit.

appear to have as little knowledge of the UK visa and immigration rules and procedures as you do.

Whilst it is true that if the purpose of the visit is to see a friend there needs to be a relationship of some sort; saying that the reason for the visit is to develop said relationship is a perfectly valid reason for the UK.

[JLCrab]

Thank you. I will retire from this topic. However I will note that one who liked one of my posts is a former UKBA agent.

[disagree]

disagree,

as both Poland and Spain are both members of the Schengen area, the EU and the EEA, your Polish girlfriend would not need any type of visa to visit Mallorca; no matter what the purpose of her visit.

Unless it was before 2004, which was when Poland joined the EU.

Read my replies to you again.

I am not saying that staying with family whilst getting to know a potential boyfriend is crazy.

What I am saying is that lying in a UK visa application is crazy; particularly when, for the reasons already stated, the lie is so easily discovered and has potentially disastrous consequences when it is discovered.

Plus, in this case Garry and his girlfriend do know each other very well, which, from what you say, was not the case with you and your Polish girlfriend.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. You think lying in a UK visa application is a good idea; I don't.

Just to make it clear : I have not advised lying to the UK authorities.

Let's just say that I would have approached the WHOLE case differently if a stay at said aunt would be a possibility. OP hasn't commented yet on if that's even the case. As to your points; if a love interest of said girl helps her with funding a family visit, I don't see a problem with that. This can be even disclosed if necessary; or OP makes payments through aunt if he doesn't want to disclose it.

It's also rare that the 'purpose of stay' is only one, and you'd rather pick the one which has the highest rate of success. A family visit doesn't dictate an exclusion of a romantic relationship with others. I'm thinking that it would have been also beneficial to the future process as they'd have great additional documentation.

My whole point is that this would have been the route of least resistance; picking the family member as the sponsor. Even holding up to the requirements of a family stay ( are there even such? % of overnight stays? ). And then they'd have a more solid case for the future for non-auntie stays.

OP has pointed out that this is supposed to be a test-stay to see if they can live with each other. I think the auntie scenario would have been quite perfect for this.

[7by7]

Thank you. I will retire from this topic. However I will note that one who liked one of my posts is a former UKBA agent.

I guess that I was wrong to use that post as an example.

However, I still maintain that basing your advice on what would happen to somebody applying for a US visa is of no use when the OP is asking about a UK visa.

[7by7]

Just to make it clear : I have not advised lying to the UK authorities.

Yes, you have.

Both the general visit and the family visit forms specifically ask 'What is the main purpose of your visit to the UK?" (my emphasis).

In addition the family visit form has the following right at the start

You should only complete this form if your main reason for visiting the UK is to see one of the family members listed below and they are permanently settled in the UK.

(my emphasis)

(Although visiting an aunt would not be classed as a family visit, so the general visit form would need to be completed, I have included the family one to show that the same question is asked there.)

To say that the main purpose of the visit is to see her aunt when in fact the main purpose of the visit is to see her boyfriend is a lie.

I wouldn't recommend it; you would.

As agreed, the point is moot in Garry's case; but if others want to follow your advice and so risk the consequences I have previously outlined; up to them.

Edited May 3, 2013 by 7by7

[disagree]

Just to make it clear : I have not advised lying to the UK authorities.

Yes, you have.

Both the general visit and the family visit forms specifically ask 'What is the main purpose of your visit to the UK?" (my emphasis).

In addition the family visit form has the following right at the start

>>You should only complete this form if your main reason for visiting the UK is to see one of the family members listed below and they are permanently settled in the UK.

(my emphasis)

(Although visiting an aunt would not be classed as a family visit, so the general visit form would need to be completed, I have included the family one to show that the same question is asked there.)

To say that the main purpose of the visit is to see her aunt when in fact the main purpose of the visit is to see her boyfriend is a lie.

I wouldn't recommend it; you would.

As agreed, the point is moot in Garry's case; but if others want to follow your advice and so risk the consequences I have previously outlined; up to them.

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. I haven't advised lying to any authorities. I have even pointed out to oblige by the regulations to fulfill the requirement of the purpose of visit if there are such. Please stop your crusade.

Anyhow, if aunts do not count as family members then it's not a valid method anymore unless 'general visit' forms with 'visit friend(s)' that happen to be 'other relatives' are higher likely to be accepted.

Edited May 3, 2013 by disagree

[bobrussell]

Not sure quite what the fuss is about but there is nothing wrong with putting as main reason 'to visit friend and extended family'. It does not say main reasons but the ECO should be perfectly happy with this.

One of the reasons for asking this question is to make sure the application is for the correct visa type.

Other options are 'holiday and see friends'. Just clarify the details in covering documentation.

[7by7]

You are, essentially, correct, Bob.

But disagree is advocating leaving the boyfriend out of the picture altogether and saying that the only reason is to visit the aunt.

That would be a lie.