Samui Loses One Of Its Prestigious Residents

[sriracha john]

if there are only threads titled, "Lovely Haagen-Daaz Shop found on Chawaeng"... "Party At Toddy House Tonight" ... and "Poll To Ban Khun Jean From This Forum" "Samui Island’s Tourism Booming This Year" or anything posted by Lisa28..

.... then, the only concept that one can deduce from reading threads of Samui is that it is Utopia.

...why bring me into it, John?? Fight your own battles, don't make it personal and don't drag others into it to make your point.

L

please refer to Tax's last post...

[LaoPo]

I feel ashamed that some of you use this thread/forum to bash, flame and attack upon each other, whether with true on untrue stories, situations and newspaper articles regarding 'Koh Samui' in general.

I can't believe some of the posts by more experienced TV-members than myself but some of you are 'losing control', class, style and dignity over yourselves and others.

An extremely tendencious article in The Observer has done a lot of harm to the tourist industry on Samui where thousands are trying to make a living, and I mean decent Thai people.

If one reads that article again and imagine another place (Pattaya, Phuket amongst others) in Thailand it could be the same article written over and over again.

In fact this article could have been written about Patpong/BKK or Patong/Phuket or Pattaya. NO, it was written in a sensational way about Samui in the aftermath of the sad killing of Katherine Horton.

And, sadly enough, it happened on Samui and not somewhere else in LOS.

If this (God forbid) would have happened on Koh Phangan with its Full Moon Party, I assure you that the Press would have jumped on Phangan and would have written Phangan directly to H_ll !

One of you said it was well written; I agree, it was well sensationally written and especially also the British, Germans, Dutch (a.o.) 'eat' these kind of stories about the so-called Sodom&Gomorra places in the world.

Every single year, in spring/summer-time, there are over-and-over again these kind of 'juicy-sensational' stories about Ibiza/Spain as well...but I assure you that I know dozens of people there, living a very peaceful life as the vast majority of the islandpeople do, whether import or local.

I'm absolutely convinced that it is exactly the same on Samui.

Remember? Silent Majority...

I am coming to Thailand and Ibiza for more than 25/30 years and love these places, whatever happens, and I can tell you that LOTS of things changed....I still remember Patong beach/Phuket as a virgin paradise beach...I still remember Chaweng beach as paradise, but yes, things do change and not always for the better.

I'm not telling here that there's nothing wrong on Samui but is there nothing wrong in other places in Thailand?

I feel it to be very unkind and unfair to pinpoint Samui as a bad place and kindly ask you to stop bashing and flaming toward each other and...Samui.

Well, I'm just asking...of course.

thank you.

LaoPo

Edited March 20, 2006 by LaoPo

[taxexile]

i feel i have to contribute yet again to this samui thread.

regarding batty2 post.

A humble observation; A demographic prevails on this forum of bitter anti-Samui ex-residents who for whatever reason have moved on, but still choose to grace this forum and winge, complain, moan and generally condemn Samui as an ill chosen place to reside. Further more, anyone within a 10K radius of either Chaweng or lamai can only be a deranged fat English alcoholic 17 year old girl shagging knuckle-head, right?

i have no bitterness regarding samui , i did not have any bad experiences so to speak of whilst i lived there , just more a gradual growing disillusionment with the place. in the end i did not feel comfortable living on that island ,

i have nothing against bars , barflies and bargirls , nothing against those who wish to drink thenselves into oblivion every night and traipse around the streets shirtless with a paid for girl on their arm. its all part of the human soup , and long may it continue.

it was the way the island was run , and the poor deal falangs get there from a lot of locals , (and falang run businesses ) the island stinks of greed and unfair play , more so than other places in this country.

What’s worse is this - you guys seem to post your anti-Samui rants with a smug, underlying tone. Almost like you have one up on us poor, afflicted Samui folk because you now live somewhere else. Sriracha, I fail to see it as B-A-L--A-N-C-E, I see it as C-O-N-D-E-S-E-N-D-I-N-G.

if you see it as condescending , then thats your problem , thats your inferiority complexes showing.

samui has so much wrong with it , yet the residents there find it hard to comment on the negative aspects of the place , its almost as if you dont want to be seen as having chosen a place to live that is developing problems.

Taxexile, I have to admit your post was very witty and it made me chuckle, but again.... why the fark post here if you don’t like Samui? With regards to your quoting the old article on Samui, I agree fully with Limbos. Most of that report is crap. The parts that are true are accepted by most people that live here as a small price to pay for living in such a cracking Island. Personally speaking, I fail to recall the last time I shed a tear over potholes and road floods…. Actually, I consider it part of the charm.

if you like the crumbling roads and poor drainage , then fine , enjoy it .

but the residents are paying high prices to live there , and get very poor service in return ,and hardly any of that money is going into improving the place , it goes into the pockets and bank accounts of greedy officials and developers, who seek only to improve their own situation , and dont give a danm about anybody else.

if you are happy to be part of that , then fine , enjoy it.

but understand andtake note of the sort of people who thrive under systems like that , because those are the sort of people who are going to come and live there.

falangs on samui are seen by the thais as stupid people with more money than sense , and they have become adept at fleecing both residents and visitors at every opportunity. why should people keep quiet in the face of such things , why shouldnt i come on to this forum and express my viewpoints on samui. you post about the things that you find so wonderful , (the beach and the palm trees , or at least the ones still left standing ) and i will post about the things that are not so wonderful (everything else)

that newspaper report that i posted rings very true , maybe the number of prostitutes was an exaggeration , but that report captured the atmosphere and the zeitgeist of the island perfectly.

if the residents are happy to support such a corrupt system , then fine.

i couldnt stomach it , and left.

why are you people so sensitive about criticism of samui.

Edited March 20, 2006 by taxexile

[John 1]

Taxexile post's are a fairly good assessment of the situation on Samui, Some people put up with the situation and some express there opinion, that's what this forum is for. I've lived here 17 years and it's not getting better, what can be done not much it will be the same next week and next year. As for the coconut palm's when they are all dead there won't be a problem, I'm sure someone will reply that the goverment has this in hand, yes for sure the only thing they have in there hand is there dik.

[BattyBatty]

Fair enough.

Maybe, t'was a slight rant on my part.

To be honest, I just can’t get my head around certain posters who do nothing else but complain about the island. Postings regarding, lets say, 'where can I buy a new computer' invariably turn into 'Samui is full of drunks. I bet you own a bar. Lowlife." By one or two people. Jeez man, give it a break! Really, is it THAT bad?

I pay no attention to local politics, economy, social progression et al.... not through ignorance, but through my own understanding that I am simply a guest. I don’t care. It’s not my business. Sure, Samui generates huge revenues from foreign investment and the tourist dollar and it sucks that most of that money goes over to Surat, but again... it’s not my business. We are not afforded the luxury of making a difference to the island; the Thais prefer to manage themselves (right or wrong). People know this. To this end, if it upsets investors, don’t invest! It’s a sold as seen deal guys....

I prefer to stay blinkered. It’s ok living in a bubble. I have no problem with my rose colored spectacles. To me, I just see nice beaches, palm trees, nice looking women and a general sense of freedom that my home country could not offer (I wasn’t locked up, before you hit me with that!). Again, its not ignorance.... more of an understanding; I'm not going to change a thing, so I just plod along in my own way and focus on the positives.

[sbk]

Well, this has certainly turned into another pointless thread filled with flaming, bashing and untruths. What in the heck does it have to do with the topic at hand, I ask?

Which, if I remember correctly, was about some farang criminal who had a house in Samui and got arrested.

One usually hears about farang criminals getting arrested in Thailand, rather than the other way around. So, why does this one guy, who actually got arrested at home, somehow implicate Samui as a criminal outpost? It seems to me that there are far more stories of farangs getting arrested in Thailand, Phuket, Pattaya, Hua Hin, all have had their fair share.

I wonder why that is? There are plenty of nice people who come to live in Thailand but why so many scum as well?

[game4shame]

this made me chuckle:

You moved away from Samui, why don't you move away from this Samui Forum as well.

no chance !!!

having too much fun here winding you lot up.

Taxexile's posts are more casting bait than intended malice imo. Too many people are biting!!

but the observer 10000-prostitute-gangland-hel_l drivel & certain members' vindictive Samui bashing is wearing thin

if you dont like it dont go there. simple.

try a more law-abiding, tranquil surrounding..............like Pattaya for instance.

[Malice in Wonderland]

samui has so much wrong with it

Not so,It only has one problem - The Suratthani Provincial Goverment. Year after year they siphon money from the cash-cow that is Samui whilst only providing enough infrastructure financing for "registered residents of the island" - last count circa 46,000 when the real figure could be 6 times that (and that's without a million tourists moving about every year!!) Is it any wonder the roads and drainage is crap???

Self Govering status like Pattaya can be the only solution because Tourists will only come here for so long before they start to wonder "Where are my tourist dollars actually going ??" as they run into yet another pothole....

Want to know where all that cash is going??? Just have a drive around Suratthani Province on the many super highways with surfaces so smooth they'd make Samui residents weep and then you'll see.What you won't see however is any traffic,often 15 minutes at a time....And the same people who signed off all these can't stretch to 56 km of Ring Road and some drains ????

So to all of you slagging of my home the solution is simple - Want to rant ? Rant to the Suratthani Provincial Government.!!!!

[taxexile]

from batty2

I pay no attention to local politics, economy, social progression et al.... not through ignorance, but through my own understanding that I am simply a guest. I don’t care. It’s not my business. Sure, Samui generates huge revenues from foreign investment and the tourist dollar and it sucks that most of that money goes over to Surat, but again... it’s not my business. We are not afforded the luxury of making a difference to the island; the Thais prefer to manage themselves (right or wrong). People know this. To this end, if it upsets investors, don’t invest! It’s a sold as seen deal guys....

I prefer to stay blinkered. It’s ok living in a bubble. I have no problem with my rose colored spectacles. To me, I just see nice beaches, palm trees, nice looking women and a general sense of freedom that my home country could not offer (I wasn’t locked up, before you hit me with that!). Again, its not ignorance.... more of an understanding; I'm not going to change a thing, so I just plod along in my own way and focus on the positives.

at last , some sense from an islander.

in some ways i wish i could adopt that attitude , but i cant.

i should also add that the same attitude led to the rise of hitler and others of his ilk , but even i would admit that that has got nothing to do with enjoying life on samui.

[LaoPo]

Not so,It only has one problem - The Suratthani Provincial Goverment. Year after year they siphon money from the cash-cow that is Samui whilst only providing enough infrastructure financing for "registered residents of the island" - last count circa 46,000 when the real figure could be 6 times that (and that's without a million tourists moving about every year!!) Is it any wonder the roads and drainage is crap???

Self Govering status like Pattaya can be the only solution because Tourists will only come here for so long before they start to wonder "Where are my tourist dollars actually going ??" as they run into yet another pothole....

Want to know where all that cash is going??? Just have a drive around Suratthani Province on the many super highways with surfaces so smooth they'd make Samui residents weep and then you'll see.What you won't see however is any traffic,often 15 minutes at a time....And the same people who signed off all these can't stretch to 56 km of Ring Road and some drains ????

So to all of you slagging of my home the solution is simple - Want to rant ? Rant to the Suratthani Provincial Government.!!!!

Well said Malice; however, to be fair, it can only be done by the Samuians themselves and thus have to organize themselves.

Expats (forget about tourists) have 'no voice' or power to complain to the Suratthani officials.

But who knows, maybe there are a few of you outthere who know some influential powerful people or maybe even the Mayor (who lately complained about a taxi ride) and start from there?

About the road on the mainland: This was the same on the Balearic islands where Mallorca was the big sister island and all the money from Ibiza went there and it took years and years (after massive protests) before the roads/infrastructure were properly done.

Amazing story: some 2 weeks ago an expat friend of mine on Ibiza talked to some influental guys in the village of San Jose/Ibiza who always visit the local bar opposite the Church after Sunday's mass ( ) and complained about the horrible state of a back-back road....

A few days later big machines arrived and they fixed the road with a smooth surface !

I realize that that day is still far away for Samui though

LaoPo

Edited March 20, 2006 by LaoPo

[limbos]

Malice and Laopo,

Excellent observations. Just can hope that self governing status will come soon, word is going around that talks are happening about this. Local Samuians talk about it.

Tax,

Sometimes you do hit on things that aren't working in Samui, it's just that there's only negative aspects that you can bring up.

As I pointed out earlier in my post to you, not everything smells poop free on Samui, see above example by Malice and one of my pet things are taxi's on Samui. These guys really need to be sorted out IMO.

My point to you is that everything you see bad on Samui, is happening in other places as well, maybe better disguised, but they're around.

[the gent]

from batty2

I pay no attention to local politics, economy, social progression et al.... not through ignorance, but through my own understanding that I am simply a guest. I don’t care. It’s not my business. Sure, Samui generates huge revenues from foreign investment and the tourist dollar and it sucks that most of that money goes over to Surat, but again... it’s not my business. We are not afforded the luxury of making a difference to the island; the Thais prefer to manage themselves (right or wrong). People know this. To this end, if it upsets investors, don’t invest! It’s a sold as seen deal guys....

I prefer to stay blinkered. It’s ok living in a bubble. I have no problem with my rose colored spectacles. To me, I just see nice beaches, palm trees, nice looking women and a general sense of freedom that my home country could not offer (I wasn’t locked up, before you hit me with that!). Again, its not ignorance.... more of an understanding; I'm not going to change a thing, so I just plod along in my own way and focus on the positives.

at last , some sense from an islander.

in some ways i wish i could adopt that attitude , but i cant.

i should also add that the same attitude led to the rise of hitler and others of his ilk , but even i would admit that that has got nothing to do with enjoying life on samui.

Notwithstanding Tax's concession, I shall nevertheless remain vigilant the next time I plonk my laissez faire buttocks on the sun deck of the Lodge Hotel, Bophut lest my preoccupation with where my next drink might be coming from should give rise to the next totalitarian regime.

One can never be too careful.

Incidentally, where does that prat estate agent drink? Recreation beckons.

Toodle pip

[BattyBatty]

Quote, Tax;

"i should also add that the same attitude led to the rise of hitler and others of his ilk!"

Bloody hel_l Tax.... Context mate, context!

I dunno...

Maybe its all 'Ze Fuerers' fault. I say linch the bugger.... Aparently he can be found in some poncy development around Mae Nam, drinking G&T's with Stuart and playing poker with Pol Pott.

[Rooo]

Khun Jean & TAx for mayor. Who do you pic?

[Khun Jean]

I'll bite.

Several things would make live and tourism more sustainable.

1. Actually use the incinerator that has been build. 5000 baht fine or 3 years in prison for anyone who dares to burn garbage. If it is on the beach. 10.000 baht fine and 6 years in prison.

2. Make sure the police force is working "to protect and serve" the public.

3. Lobby hard for normal closing times. 1 o'clock is plain stupid. If Samui wants more tourist this is important. Don't want all people at the same time on the streets. Toursit are here to have a holiday, not to be in a kindergarten.

4. The road, aah.. the road. Use asphalt instead of that concrete that is always breaking. Fix the ring road.

5. Allow only big trucks to drive on certain hours. With a dampner in their exhaust. If they drive over 80 kph. Licence gone.

6. Make sure the raw sewage is not dumped into the sea. It will only come back and will mess everything up. Big hotels have to treat there waste water. Small resorts and housing estates should have storage for wastewater that would be collected and treated.

7. To give everybody a equal chance of doing business ALL businesses should be registered and obey closing hours. Sorry Buddy Bar, you have to go, or close at the same time others have to.

8. Development have to be registered and approved. Not by family members but independant people. (That would be hard, but it is a nice goal)

9. Improve public transport. At least 4 busses driving around the ring road. Maximize number of taxies and songtheaws. Enforce use of a meter.

10. Converted pickups with imense sound systems are forbidden. Tourist will have to be informed about the Thai boxing that takes place every single day in a different matter. Maybe an advertisement in the free maps.

11. Keymoney is forbidden. If reported offender faces 1 year in prison for every 1000 baht. No use to scare rich people with small fines.

That is just of the top of my head. For a real campaign i surely have some more.

[taxexile]

Tax,

Sometimes you do hit on things that aren't working in Samui, it's just that there's only negative aspects that you can bring up.

As I pointed out earlier in my post to you, not everything smells poop free on Samui, see above example by Malice and one of my pet things are taxi's on Samui. These guys really need to be sorted out IMO.

My point to you is that everything you see bad on Samui, is happening in other places as well, maybe better disguised, but they're around.

the good things dont need commenting on , everybody knows what they are , should be or were .

sun shines again for the 300th day in a row on samui

man receives correct change from taxi driver

bloke has good cheese sandwich in restaurant

samuis 250th irish pub to open soon

bargirl doesn't give herpes to grateful tourist

emergency ink supplies to be airlifted to samuis overworked tattoo shops

topless swedish sunbather not molested by drunken fisherman

fishermans pants sale at tracys trendy boutique

all indian tailor shops declared illegal and closed down

british land developer injured in tragic roof collapse incident , poor quality workmanship blamed.

and they would just make for boring posts.

its the negative aspects that need to be brought out into open discussion , so that prospective visitors are aware of them.

Edited March 21, 2006 by taxexile

[SamuiRes]

I'll bite.

Several things would make live and tourism more sustainable.

1. Actually use the incinerator that has been build. 5000 baht fine or 3 years in prison for anyone who dares to burn garbage. If it is on the beach. 10.000 baht fine and 6 years in prison.

Great idea - agree absolutely![/color]

2. Make sure the police force is working "to protect and serve" the public.

They are talking about new Police from outside Samui to break the existing ties and building a new police station in Chaweng to make reporting crimes easier, rather than having to go all the way to Nathon. Funds have apparently been allocated and work due to start soon.

3. Lobby hard for normal closing times. 1 o'clock is plain stupid. If Samui wants more tourist this is important. Don't want all people at the same time on the streets. Toursit are here to have a holiday, not to be in a kindergarten.

Agreed!

4. The road, aah.. the road. Use asphalt instead of that concrete that is always breaking. Fix the ring road.

There has been discussion on this in the local Newspapers as part of an interview with the Tessaban. They have contradictory statements about the lifespan of Tarmac roads against concrete roads. They currently have no facililties on the island which can handle Tarmac - certainly in the quantities that would be required. Once again it comes down to money and they just do not have the funds to do it all.

5. Allow only big trucks to drive on certain hours. With a dampner in their exhaust. If they drive over 80 kph. Licence gone.

Fully agree!

6. Make sure the raw sewage is not dumped into the sea. It will only come back and will mess everything up. Big hotels have to treat there waste water. Small resorts and housing estates should have storage for wastewater that would be collected and treated.

Agree absolutely!

7. To give everybody a equal chance of doing business ALL businesses should be registered and obey closing hours. Sorry Buddy Bar, you have to go, or close at the same time others have to.

Agree - and not just Buddy Bar! Let's have a level playing field - I really am dreaming there though!

8. Development have to be registered and approved. Not by family members but independant people. (That would be hard, but it is a nice goal)

I am not sure why you think they are not at the moment. All developments have to be approved by the Tessaban.

9. Improve public transport. At least 4 busses driving around the ring road. Maximize number of taxies and songtheaws. Enforce use of a meter.

There is much discussion on this locally and the Mayor had a meeting with the Taxi drivers to try and resolve the issue of over charging and not using meters. The Taxi drivers said that if the un-licenced Songtaew and taxis were stopped then they would agree to a flag down charge of Baht 100. Still a rip off but better than what we have now

10. Converted pickups with imense sound systems are forbidden. Tourist will have to be informed about the Thai boxing that takes place every single day in a different matter. Maybe an advertisement in the free maps.

That has been tried before without success. Whilst we all hate it, it derives from the times when the village headman would advise the village of local news and information by loudspeaker as this was the only way to pass this on. It has therefore formed part of the culture here and the locals are not so understanding of foreigners objection to it.

11. Keymoney is forbidden. If reported offender faces 1 year in prison for every 1000 baht. No use to scare rich people with small fines.

Key money for what? A bar? A shop? What? Keymoney is part of the way business operates here in a free economy. I would agree entirely that I see no logical basis for it in most instancies. Key money is common in the West and generally represents the value remaining in a lease where the rent being paid is far less than the current market value or represents Fixture and Fittings or improvements carried out by the tenant. It can be quantified and justified. Here key money has no quantifiable justificiation but has become part of the way deals are structured. I do not think it can or should be made illegal. Market forces generally take care of these issues. The higher the key money the lower the ensuing rent and the other way round. No one has to pay key money. No one forces you to sign the deal. If you want to do the nusiness then you factor in the key money to your business plan and negotiate the key money against rent as bets you can.

That is just of the top of my head. For a real campaign i surely have some more.

Edited March 21, 2006 by SamuiRes

[Khun Jean]

8. Development have to be registered and approved. Not by family members but independant people. (That would be hard, but it is a nice goal)

I am not sure why you think they are not at the moment. All developments have to be approved by the Tessaban.

I have to fix point 8.

Development has to be registered and approved by independant people. Not by "my friend" the architect who has to approve, and not by "my friend" who has to do the registration. Also putting land on a foreigners name that is no problem for 100.000 baht. "my friend" can fix that, no problem.

It is just one big scam, especially when you are not knowledgable of the ownership rules.

If you just arrive fresh from the west and are totally in love with the island, this is a very very big risk, and almost a 100% sure way to loose your savings. (Not only Samui BTW, but somehow when people are on Samui they lose all their common sense) Never can warn enough times.

If you are here longer, you probably know all of that and will trust only yourself when it is about large sums of money.

Putting something in place to protect the buyers would be great. But TiT.

[limbos]

Khun Jean,

Very good points and I fully agree.

However, with Tarmac, unless there would be a production line on Samui, it wouldn't last the trip from the mainland on the ferry.

The counter argument on Keymoney makes sense as well.

[Khun Jean]

The keymoney is often used as a pressure tool.

It has its value for the owner of course, it has none for the renter. Many businesses start with a three year contract and already close after a few months or one season.

The problem with keymoney is that it is a very dangerous thing when doing good business. Especially long term business. (If you do that smart, you will never accept a 3 year contract).

If you look around there are many 'first time' business owners, it is as they have no clue about business at all. For these people some protection is needed. If keymoney is not used the risks are a lot smaller. The owner will have to be more selective and responsible.

When you have a business that is running good, the owner will get dollar signs in his eyes. Keymoney can rise from 500.000 for 3 years to 3.000.000. This happened in Lamai to a friend who was running a restaurant, and i can assure you he was not the only one whos contract expired. It is one of the reasons there is such a big turnover. The same is true for the monthly rent. 30.000 baht raised to 100.000 baht a month. You can never factor that in. The only right thing was to never get in a contract like that in the first place. For many people it is too late.

If you start a business it will cost a lot of money to setup the place, decorating, buying equipment all adds up quickly. You probably need 1 or 2 years to just recoup the investment. You might make a profit the third year. If you get a raise in keymoney it can be the end of your business. The risk is greater because after 2-3 years your income will be from the business.

The owner couldn't care less. A new arrival with a savings account can be asked more.

You're out on the street because the outrages rise in keymoney and rent. The new people will gladly move in because they bring 'western' money and have no idea how much it is really worth anyway. You as a experienced Thai business owner don't have those impressions about 'cheap rent' anymore afterall you make 'Thai' money with your business.

[mosquitoman]

I'll bite.

11. Keymoney is forbidden. If reported offender faces 1 year in prison for every 1000 baht. No use to scare rich people with small fines.

Key money for what? A bar? A shop? What? Keymoney is part of the way business operates here in a free economy. I would agree entirely that I see no logical basis for it in most instancies. Key money is common in the West and generally represents the value remaining in a lease where the rent being paid is far less than the current market value or represents Fixture and Fittings or improvements carried out by the tenant. It can be quantified and justified. Here key money has no quantifiable justificiation but has become part of the way deals are structured. I do not think it can or should be made illegal. Market forces generally take care of these issues. The higher the key money the lower the ensuing rent and the other way round. No one has to pay key money. No one forces you to sign the deal. If you want to do the nusiness then you factor in the key money to your business plan and negotiate the key money against rent as bets you can.

That is just of the top of my head. For a real campaign i surely have some more.

I fully agree Key Money is all part of a free market economy, its happens all over the world where land and property is at a premiun. No one is forced to pay key money, its a choice you make and consider when you start a buisness. BUYER BEWARE

[minimoocher]

bumptious little prigs such as this twerp, Evans

samui attracts new money , dodgy money , wide boy money , bank heist money , pocketfuls of readies type money and money that needs a good wash and the tabloid folk that come with it.

real money , old money , the sort of people that evans wet dreams about , would go to florida , france or spain , real real money would go to the bahamas.

they wouldnt be seen dead on samui.

Sure this guy evans comes accross as a complete tosser,

I think the bahamas, france, spain and florida has attracted more dodgy money than Samui ever has or ever will, Try visiting Marbella, Cannes, or Miami, these places are full of people flaunting there ill gotten gains,

Old money real money in my view is ill gotten at one time or another, but these people with time have learnt not to be so crass about how they flaunt it, and is probably why you have not noticed them on Koh Samui.

Well said!!! Spain and Marbella in particular! what a dump Marbella is. where east london gangsters go to die, buried in their shell suits too no wonder.........