Seriously Fascinating Article About Gut Bacteria Link To Obesity

[Jingthing]

Poop.

The obesity "cure" of the future.

I coitantly hope so!

http://chriskresser.com/poop-the-cure-of-the-future

Researchers in Amsterdam are even running a clinical trial to see if fecal transplants can help treat obesity. (6) I’ve written before that the composition of the gut flora is one of many factors that affects weight regulation, and fecal transplant could very well be a future obesity treatment.

[jpeg]

No fat person ever walked out of Belsen.

[Jingthing]

No fat person ever walked out of Belsen.

I think its really really DISGUSTING to introduce the holocaust to this discussion.

Since you did, yes dear, everyone can be starved to death.

Those who start fat have more storage and will take longer to starve to death.

Starving people death in mass extermination camps is not a viable plan for obesity treatment, dear.

Again, the topic is gut bacteria linking to obesity.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Until scientists know much more, it's still largely GUESSWORK, but here is a good list of things we can all do NOW to potentially have more health promoting gut bacteria profiles, which MIGHT influence potential for weight loss and/or help prevent weight gain in the first place.

Referring to the article, what do you think they mean by "green" juices? Juices made of leafy greens or do they mean something else?

On the cutting on soy products and wheat ... that's a tough one for me. Wheat I have cut down on portions and don't eat everyday, but I really do love tofu!

They link meat eating to getting too much antibiotic exposure, yet another reason to consider cutting down on meat.

"It's such a new field and there are so many studies underway. But we do know that it's important to keep your flora in a balanced state," says Lipman. "A disturbed microbiome, where bad bacteria and yeast overtake the good ones can cause all sorts of health problems from autoimmune diseases to weight gain."

Thus far, gut microbes have been shown to influence metabolism, and certain types may play a role in obesity. In fact, one family of bacteria called Firmicutes can even cause you to absorb more calories from your food. Another, called Bacteroidetes, is associated with leanness.

Wondering how to keep your belly balanced—and flat? Your trump card may be a healthy diet, which can prevent microbes associated with obesity from flourishing. No real surprises there, and until more is known Lipman suggests keeping your microbiome in mind when you eat. Here are his five tips:

Read more: http://www.details.com/blogs/daily-details/2013/11/why-bacteria-keeps-you-healthy-plus-5-ways-to-make-your-body-a-microbial-home.html#ixzz2mCk9rn1D

Edited December 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[Chonburiram]

I hope they will never find a cheap, harmless pill against obesity...

Jt, you keep saying eating habits are not connected to morality, while in the same time millions starve to death

or seriously suffer from malnutrition ( and yes, the Holocaust pales to insignificance, compared to the hunger in the world )

It's like: The peasants have no bread! So, let them eat anti obesity pills.

Control your intake or die, natural selection at work.

[partington]

I hope they will never find a cheap, harmless pill against obesity...

Jt, you keep saying eating habits are not connected to morality, while in the same time millions starve to death

or seriously suffer from malnutrition ( and yes, the Holocaust pales to insignificance, compared to the hunger in the world )

It's like: The peasants have no bread! So, let them eat anti obesity pills.

Control your intake or die, natural selection at work.

This is arrant, reprehensible, ignorant nonsense.

Try to consider this: the people who are starving to death are not starving because of the eating habits of rich countries. Americans throwing away food is not the reason why people in Somalia are starving.

The fact that Americans have so much food that they have to try to devise means of limiting their obesity is not the reason why people in third world countires do not have enough food.

I know it seems unbearable that part of the world wonders how to get rid of excess fat, while others try to get enough calories to allow their children to survive.

But one is not causing the other, any more than the fact that it rains nearly every bloody day in London causes the Sahara desert.

The world is unfair. We need to alleviate the unfairness, sure. But we do not need to kill tall people because short people have a worse time of it...

Edited December 2, 2013 by partington

[Jingthing]

There are no miracles. An effective gut bacteria treatment would not mean liberty to eat massive amounts of crappy food without consequences. We are talking about treatments here that can potentially save millions of lives.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[h90]

There are no miracles. An effective gut bacteria treatment would not mean liberty to eat massive amounts of crappy food without consequences. We are talking about treatments here that can potentially save millions of lives.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well at the end it would mean that the foods energy is used less than optimum.

Means you can eat more without getting fat.

Or you would starve with an amount of food you could normally live.

Indeed it is a kind of moral problem if one part of the humans thing of ways to eat more without exploding and the other part tries to find some bits of food so they don't starve.

Of course I know these problems aren't direct connected and if all fat Americans would go on diet, no African would be less hungry. But still it is disturbing

[Jingthing]

Obese people -- your feces are NOT desirable!

This isn't a trivial point.

Fecal transplants are the trending thing and THEY WORK REALLY WELL for serious bowel issues.

From healthy people.

Gut bacteria from the obese is SUSPECT and rightly so.

This seems to really be happening, folks.

I read in another link (sorry can't find it now) that the estimated time for researchers to develop a gut bacteria PILL for treatment of obese people (using the gut bacteria of non-obese people) is about FIVE years.

I reckon that means more time before potential commercial release to humans.

Given the promise of these therapies and the hundreds of millions of people at health risks with obesity, I don't really understand why they aren't RUSHING this research.

I should also note that the other link (sorry lost it) mentioned quite clearly that early animal studies are showing the gut bacteria injections only work when the obese subject gets the new bacteria and ALSO eats a lower fat and higher fiber diet. The gut bacteria and that kind of diet work together to create favorable results (weight loss AND a change in gut profile to match the non-obese). So the morality preachers among us, this gut bacteria is not going to be magic, the patient will also need to take some action himself to moves things along, so to speak. If you're going to assert that just doing the lower fat / high fiber thing WITHOUT the gut bacteria injections would give the same great results, no, that is not correct.

I know some of you are on fad no carb diets and fiber has carbs -- too bad. If the research shows low fat / high fiber is the key with gut bacteria therapy that will the way to go. This isn't about being true believers. It's about RESULTS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/youll-never-believe-what-doctors-are-using-to-fight-gut-infections-fecal-transplants/2014/01/06/24f36388-724a-11e3-9389-09ef9944065e_story.html

What doctors are doing with a fecal microbiota transplant, or FMT, is restoring bacterial balance to the gut. Such imbalances have been linked to a variety of conditions — including irritable bowel syndrome and obesity — but the often intractable C. diff infection has been getting extra attention in recent years.

...


“You could essentially drag some guy off the street and use his stool, as long as he’s healthy,” Brandt said. The doctors at Johns Hopkins Children’s Center use a blood test to screen out prospective donors with HIV or hepatitis C. Also, those with autoimmune diseases, diabetes or obesity may not qualify.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Of course JT nothing will ever work 100% but what I wonder is how much stuff like this change the game.

[Jingthing]

Of course JT nothing will ever work 100% but what I wonder is how much stuff like this change the game.

We'll know when the pill is out. It's coming. You can take that to the bank. I don't share your pessimism about this. I think it will probably be revolutionary. No it won't work for people who can't comply with some simple food intake changes. But there is a factor that I think some people underestimate. WHEN things are working well, and more easy than they have been, that is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT, so when obese people treated this way make the dietary changes and see dramatic results, feel better, and are not suffering, not feeling starved, I bet the compliance rates will be really high. Compared to what's out there now, TINY long term success rates, even a 20 percent long term success rate would be amazing, and I think there is reason to expect much higher than that.

A great fringe benefit when this comes assuming it works as well as I think it will (and there is evidence to support this optimism) that will change the game of fat shaming and unkind morality blame games targeted at fat people. Obesity will have become fully medicalized and effectively treated medically, making it very similar to many other physical health problems in its moral aspects.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[cobra]

Of course,

The lazy, the unmotivated, the chronic rationalizers, will grab any excuse to be the exception to the rule,

Energy output versus energy input, indisputable physics,

I guarantee if I lock you in a cell and don't feed you, you will lose weight.

If it's a personal story, and I don't know if it is ... maybe your issue stems from ...

I just found this article and I am still digesting it.*

Man ... you have to cut back on those articles!

* BTW ... nice pun ...

.

Forgive me, but most of these articles just add to the crock o' <deleted> that is already brimming with silliness. The simple fact, and it remains unchanged, is that if you are not calorie deficit, you will not lose weight, and vice versa. Some people may require more or less calories on a daily basis, but the equation remains the same. All, (and I mean 100%) of the fat people I know, eat large amounts of horrible food. in the same breath, all (again 100%) the people I know who are in shape, tend to intake far less calories than their overweight counterparts, and /or do a lot of exercise. I've told this story before , about a significantly overweight friend of mine, who always complains about his weight, and how he walks about 10kms 4-5 times a week. I went to his house one day, and his cupboards are full of chocolates, cakes, potato chips etc, and he ate a rather large amount of said food during the short time I was there. Now, does that tell you anything ?

[robblok]

Of course JT nothing will ever work 100% but what I wonder is how much stuff like this change the game.

We'll know when the pill is out. It's coming. You can take that to the bank. I don't share your pessimism about this. I think it will probably be revolutionary. No it won't work for people who can't comply with some simple food intake changes. But there is a factor that I think some people underestimate. WHEN things are working well, and more easy than they have been, that is POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT, so when obese people treated this way make the dietary changes and see dramatic results, feel better, and are not suffering, not feeling starved, I bet the compliance rates will be really high. Compared to what's out there now, TINY long term success rates, even a 20 percent long term success rate would be amazing, and I think there is reason to expect much higher than that.

JT,

The progress must be measurable and big enough to encourage them. I believe a lot in the power of positive reinforcement. I have seen it with myself. Good results will keep you going while standstills will make you loose willpower. I am pretty sure it works the same with many people.

That is why i asked how much will it work. You seem to be happy with minor changes in your body (and i admire you for going on) but I and others need to see more happening before we get the positive reinforcement. That was why i asked how much as half a kg a month (while its good if you know your going to loose that amount all the time) is not much if you just start and want to see results.

P.s not saying that it will be half a kg just an example.

[Jingthing]

Animal studies are promising. Dramatic changes.

Either they're on to a major solution or they're not.

My bet is this is the big thing.

These things happen in medicine.

Such as insulin for diabetics.

Fat shamers are going to find some other suffering humans to abuse so that they can feel morally superior to them.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Lets hope so.. would bring down the cost of healthcare (depending on how much the cure will be sold for)

[Jingthing]

Lets hope so.. would bring down the cost of healthcare (depending on how much the cure will be sold for)

Yeah.

How much can this s--t cost anyway?

I'm not really clear yet if the probable PILL therapy will be a one time treatment kind of thing or a lifetime chronic therapy. That would make a big difference. This could be a real threat to a multi-billion dollar "diet industry" that depends on things mostly NOT working (lifetime income potential).

Interesting times.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Lets hope so.. would bring down the cost of healthcare (depending on how much the cure will be sold for)

Yeah.

How much can this s--t cost anyway?

I'm not really clear yet if the probable PILL therapy will be a one time treatment kind of thing or a lifetime chronic therapy. That would make a big difference. This could be a real threat to a multi-billion dollar "diet industry" that depends on things mostly NOT working (lifetime income potential).

Interesting times.

Call me a cynic... but i think they would like the most profitable option. Sometimes I have little faith in medicine companies and that is why im pro research sponsored by governments.

[Jingthing]

I share your concerns. But it's the system we have and I'm not God. I say -- get on with the research and hurry up!

[canuckamuck]

I don't know why a pill would be needed. All you need is some good $hit transferred by colonic.

Edited January 7, 2014 by canuckamuck

[Jingthing]

I don't know why a pill would be needed. All you need is some good $hit tranferred by colonic.

That's a fair point.

The research is going to involve direct transfers first.

But the idea is for the MASSES, a more palatable way to deliver will be needed.

I have also read indications that it won't be a one size fits all formula. The "medicine" may need to be individually tailored.

A lot of this just isn't known yet.

It's really early on all this but so far the clues are this is going to be a real and big thing.

Another possibility is that during the time of working on making this a therapy for the masses, that there will be chances for early adopters to get more direct treatment.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[h90]

Of course,

The lazy, the unmotivated, the chronic rationalizers, will grab any excuse to be the exception to the rule,

Energy output versus energy input, indisputable physics,

I guarantee if I lock you in a cell and don't feed you, you will lose weight.

Yes

And instead of trying to develop a pill that allow fat people to eat even more without exploding, how about to develop a tablet with these magic bacteria from the fat for starving people, so they gain weight without eating?

[Jingthing]

Of course,

The lazy, the unmotivated, the chronic rationalizers, will grab any excuse to be the exception to the rule,

Energy output versus energy input, indisputable physics,

I guarantee if I lock you in a cell and don't feed you, you will lose weight.

Yes

And instead of trying to develop a pill that allow fat people to eat even more without exploding, how about to develop a tablet with these magic bacteria from the fat for starving people, so they gain weight without eating?

Coming on a forum that's clearly meant to be SUPPORTIVE of people dealing with a difficult problem and just INSULTING them with such a broad brush. Nobody is against research to help feed starving people. That is also being done. Both starvation and obesity are serious human problems. This forum is not about starving people, but heck, if there's a way to pile on that fat shaming, why not?

Edited January 7, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

http://www.mdjunction.com/obesity/video?v=bacteria-from-obese-people-make-mice-fatter-517926603

The mice are trying to tell us something!

[canuckamuck]

This is a really interesting topic JT, thanks for keeping it up

[robblok]

http://www.mdjunction.com/obesity/video?v=bacteria-from-obese-people-make-mice-fatter-517926603

The mice are trying to tell us something!

Did you read the article i posted on that testosterone nation ? Great article too also about gut bacteria and how much it influences things.. also about mice.

[robblok]

@JT

What is your opinion of kefir (of course it wont be that effective as bacteria transplants). I am still taking my kefir every morning for a healthy gut. Not to mention I think eating a healthy diet will help.

I wonder if transplants are the only way (born in a certain way) and that change of diet can't give you the same results.

[Jingthing]

@JT

What is your opinion of kefir (of course it wont be that effective as bacteria transplants). I am still taking my kefir every morning for a healthy gut. Not to mention I think eating a healthy diet will help.

I wonder if transplants are the only way (born in a certain way) and that change of diet can't give you the same results.

I have posted about this before.

The bottom line is this is very early days in this line of research.

There is no evidence that eating probiotics does the same thing to your system as direct methods from feces.

The feces tests regarding obesity have been on ANIMALS anyway. Again, early days.

For the treatments for serious diseases, they use the feces, and they are very effective.

I personally think it is recommendable to eat probiotics, prebiotics, and also switch to as much a VEGETARIAN diet as one can tolerate. However, there is no current scientific evidence that doing so would result in what is hoped for with the research of more direct therapy with feces sources.

So doing the eating is kind of black box. Hope it helps. Don't really know.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Jingthing

[robblok]

@JT

What is your opinion of kefir (of course it wont be that effective as bacteria transplants). I am still taking my kefir every morning for a healthy gut. Not to mention I think eating a healthy diet will help.

I wonder if transplants are the only way (born in a certain way) and that change of diet can't give you the same results.

I have posted about this before.

The bottom line is this is very early days in this line of research.

There is no evidence that eating probiotics does the same thing to your system as direct methods from feces.

The feces tests regarding obesity have been on ANIMALS anyway. Again, early days.

For the treatments for serious diseases, they use the feces, and they are very effective.

I personally think it is recommendable to eat probiotics, prebiotics, and also switch to as much a VEGETARIAN diet as one can tolerate. However, there is no current scientific evidence that doing so would result in what is hoped for with the research of more direct therapy with feces sources.

So doing the eating is kind of black box. Hope it helps. Don't really know.

I get it that it are early days.. we are just speculating.

I don't expect you to know it all.

Just wonder if it was something people are born to or acquire through food.

Tough luck about the vegetarian diet for me as I am a meat eater. Though because of the juicing i get plenty of raw vegetables too.

We will see what the research brings.

[partington]

The paper appears to say ( with the caveat that it's in Science, and you have to pay to read anything other than the summary-so I haven't!) that the intestinal bacteria spectrum is diet dependent: eating a high saturated-fat type unhealthy diet gives you the 'obese' bacterial population, and eating the vegetable-rich healthy diet gives you the 'lean' bacterial population.

This is why twins were used - they are genetically identical, so the reason why one twin is fat and one is not is dependent on the life choices of the twin, especially diet choice, and nothing to do with how they were born, ie genetics.

The anti-obesity effects of the 'lean' bacteria population don't work if the diet is still unhealthy. That is, diet has to be healthy to get the benefit.

From the little I'm able to read for free the key does seem to be that one set of bacteria, the ones that make you tend to be obese, are ones that are efficient in liberating energy from food that is eaten. The bacteria either make more or less of the energy from the food you eat available to be absorbed by your gut: they decrease or increase available calories. These calories all come from the food you eat still.

I'd also like to say this is really interesting and thanks to JT for drawing our attention to it, by the way. This really could be the beginning of a different approach to the problem.

Edited January 8, 2014 by partington

[Tolley]

I don't really understand this whole thing at all.

Surely if one of the twins changed to the same diet either way then they would over time develop the same gut bacteria. ie eat high fat diet bad gut bacteria , eat healthy low fat lots of raw foods etc develop good gut bacteria.

The whole thing seems silly to me.