Liverpool F.c.

[Abrak]

i know, this feels like DIC all over again. administration is well on the cards at this rate.

Sadly I dont believe that is a supporters worst fear. Their worst fear is that the club declines into obscurity.

But Liverpool FC, their fans etc have to wake up and get with it. To me, simply reading the newspapers, there was so much in the treatment of that bid which was on long the lines of we are interested so long as a better bid doesnt come along. What Liverpool essentially want (especially in the light of the yanks) is someone with bags of money who isnt going to interfere (unless he is Paul McCartney.)

If you live in Thailand you know that Thais hold a huge respect in premiership football. I suspect things are not hugely different in China. Kenny Huang is not a bullshitter. His concept of Chinese ownership of Liverpool is actually a very good one. In a couple of years clubs will have to become self financing. The opportunity to leverage Liverpool's revenue base through China is enormous.

The really important lesson for Liverpool is this. They have suffered under abusive ownership. But abusive ownership simply destroys the club and the business. But you cannot really control Liverpool. Liverpool lost sight of the fact that Asians respect Liverpool to a degree that they would take pride in seeing it restored to its former glory.

And the bid died because nobody respected his motivations (unless there was a serious financing problem.) If there was a Chinese takeover of Liverpool, failure to succeed would not be an acceptable option. Liverpool is like a Louis Vuitton bag.

Liverpool supporters should realize that Gillette and Hicks have very little to lose here, they have lost credibility, support and they have limited financial exposure. You also know that to the extent that you got lucky on transfers there will never be true cohesion and motivation until this issue is resolved. In other words a good squad will probably not result in a great achievement.

And truly I believe this. G&H know that they are destructive to the value of the club at the moment. While a potential investor should theoretically try to minimize their cost of ownership in order that they can maximise their future investment, G&H are basically insisting on payment to stop destruction of value and go away.

[longstebe]

What a bag of w*nk that was.

Lets get rid of the <deleted> we still have there.

Mascherano saga, what a joke that situation is. Pissed off again.

[Jimjim]

With Masch probably going, and then Aquilani out on loan, our midfield has been seriously weakened this summer. It's absolutely mental.

And yes, Man City performance was just not good enough. Dreadful.

Cole himself said he took a horrible penalty in that game last week, as well, and mentioned the last time he'd took a penalty was long, long ago when he was a teenager or something, I think he said.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Jimjim

[mrbojangles]

So no congratulations on our performance then

[MSingh]

What a bag of w*nk that was.

Lets get rid of the <deleted> we still have there.

In 7 days & rebuild during that time too ??

Good luck..

[StevieH]

What a bag of w*nk that was.

Lets get rid of the <deleted> we still have there.

Mascherano saga, what a joke that situation is. Pissed off again.

we're a bag of wank until the owners are gone and we have some money to invest in the squad. this summer has been all bullshit, yay we got torres and gerrard to stay but oh look we're still weakening the squad by shipping aquilani out and there's no way we've any intention of keeping mascherano either. bet you anything we don't get the £20m or so we get for him to reinvest in the squad. <deleted> it is.

roy was a clown last night as well. mascherano or not you don't go to city away and set up with a wide open 4-4-2 with gerrard in a deep role. schoolboy management that. and he was incapable of changing things too.

[nev]

What a bag of w*nk that was.

Lets get rid of the <deleted> we still have there.

Mascherano saga, what a joke that situation is. Pissed off again.

we're a bag of wank until the owners are gone and we have some money to invest in the squad. this summer has been all bullshit, yay we got torres and gerrard to stay but oh look we're still weakening the squad by shipping aquilani out and there's no way we've any intention of keeping mascherano either. bet you anything we don't get the £20m or so we get for him to reinvest in the squad. <deleted> it is.

roy was a clown last night as well. mascherano or not you don't go to city away and set up with a wide open 4-4-2 with gerrard in a deep role. schoolboy management that. and he was incapable of changing things too.

Stevie when i turned on and saw your 442 set i thought <deleted>.worst liverpool team i have seen since the souness era.

Going to be a long season for you lot stevie and come january be hard to hhold on to torres he might want out.

Do liverpool have some interest payment comming up?

[StevieH]

What a bag of w*nk that was.

Lets get rid of the <deleted> we still have there.

Mascherano saga, what a joke that situation is. Pissed off again.

we're a bag of wank until the owners are gone and we have some money to invest in the squad. this summer has been all bullshit, yay we got torres and gerrard to stay but oh look we're still weakening the squad by shipping aquilani out and there's no way we've any intention of keeping mascherano either. bet you anything we don't get the £20m or so we get for him to reinvest in the squad. <deleted> it is.

roy was a clown last night as well. mascherano or not you don't go to city away and set up with a wide open 4-4-2 with gerrard in a deep role. schoolboy management that. and he was incapable of changing things too.

Stevie when i turned on and saw your 442 set i thought <deleted>.worst liverpool team i have seen since the souness era.

Going to be a long season for you lot stevie and come january be hard to hhold on to torres he might want out.

Do liverpool have some interest payment comming up?

i knew the team earlier in the day nev and soon as i saw it i knew we'd get pulled all over the place. even if mascherano didn't want to play we could have put spearing in there, or even maxi who played in a midfield three in the world cup. it was amateurish management from hodgson and indicative of his away record with fulham last season.

yes, going to be a long season for us because we continue to weaken the squad and i don't believe that mascherano will be our last out this summer either. we have a major loan repayment due to RBS of £100m which if we don't meet we could go into administration. so hicks and gillett continuing to block approaches to buy the club remains ever more nauseating.

[mrbojangles]

No congratulations then

[MSingh]

No congratulations then

They have bigger things going on judging by stevie's posts than congratulating you lot on beating them for the first time since 2005 Mr BJ...

[mrbojangles]

No congratulations then

They have bigger things going on judging by stevie's posts than congratulating you lot on beating them for the first time since 2005 Mr BJ...

[StevieH]

mascherano to barcelona, fee agreed. don't know how much yet.

[Jimjim]

mascherano to barcelona, fee agreed. don't know how much yet.

Funny how it changed from Inter to Barca this last couple weeks, but not surprised at all, obviously. Man, I loved having him in the midfield and will really miss him. Hope we can bring in another midfielder with the money we get. There's not much time left but we desperately need at least 2 or 3 more players, I think.

Speaking of positions where we need more cover, Kelly did fine at left back last night, though, he's truly a great, young talent. And I thought Pacheco was going to open his account with that great shot, but at least it was hard enough to deal with that it left Kuyt an easy tap in. Typical Kuyt goal. In the first half I was truly afraid we wouldn't even be able to make it in to the Europa League group state. I mean, we'd have be on the same level as clubs like Aston Villa and Celtic, then.

Anyway, I don't care it's the lesser comp, I still want to see some European nights and see us win a dam_n trophy, especially a European one.

[Jimjim]

Masch gone, Portuguese from Porto Raul Meireles in? Wow, never even heard this name and he's here all of a sudden, at least every report seems to think it's a done deal. Now I have to go watch some World Cup highlights again as I know I watched him in action.

Also, Konchesky in, Dalle Valle and Kacaniklic the other to Fulham, as part of the deal. Have to say, some great wheeling and dealing by Fulham there.

All that leaves is a forward, if all this is true...

Edited August 27, 2010 by Jimjim

[Devil]

Masch gone, Portuguese from Porto Raul Meireles in? Wow, never even heard this name and he's here all of a sudden, at least every report seems to think it's a done deal. Now I have to go watch some World Cup highlights again as I know I watched him in action.

Also, Konchesky in, Dalle Valle and Kacaniklic the other to Fulham, as part of the deal. Have to say, some great wheeling and dealing by Fulham there.

All that leaves is a forward, if all this is true...

That signing came out of no where! good to know this was going on behind the scenes in any case with Aqua going out on loan and now Masch gone.

I think this is a very good signing at 10.7m and I hope it works out. I remember him in the World Cup but I didn't know too much about him before that. He certainly looked one of the better players in the Portugal team at the WC.

IMO much more of a box to box player and his passing seemed very good from what I remember in the WC neither of which Masch was good at. Masch was a pure DM and played to let others get forward and break up play which he was excellent at.

I do worry our midfield is going to take some time to gel together. Just feel the shape of the team looks unbalanced right now, anyway time will tell.

Dev

[rixalex]

mascherano to barcelona, fee agreed. don't know how much yet.

Another transfer in which a player has conducted himself very poorly. One day kissing the badge, the next not giving a dam_n.

What really disgusted me about this one was Messi's comments (like it's got anything to do with him) - "Liverpool should act humanely"?!!! Might be the best in the world but the guy is clearly a prick.

Pulis was right. There's a disease in the game.

[Devil]

mascherano to barcelona, fee agreed. don't know how much yet.

Another transfer in which a player has conducted himself very poorly. One day kissing the badge, the next not giving a dam_n.

What really disgusted me about this one was Messi's comments (like it's got anything to do with him) - "Liverpool should act humanely"?!!! Might be the best in the world but the guy is clearly a prick.

Pulis was right. There's a disease in the game.

Agree with that, Player Power it way out of hand now.

[bkkjames]

I would like to see one manager bench one of these types for the entire season.

[rixalex]

I would like to see one manager bench one of these types for the entire season.

It is time clubs stood up to all this "me me me" nonsese from the players. Which club could afford to though? City of course could but even they caved in when it came to the crunch, in dealing with want-away Robhino. Pity.

[Abrak]

Pulis was right. There's a disease in the game.

I think the disease in the game is fairly two sided. If you spend outragous amounts on a player you are taking a risk.

I think rather than viewing how Mascherano has acted badly (especially in light of events a year ago), Liverpool should give credit to many of their players like Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres and Reine who have shown a loyalty and professionalism to a club that has disappointed them in terms of ambition and commitment that they might have expected when they joined.

Commitment and good faith works both ways in a contract.

[Jimjim]

I agree, I don't like Masch's refusal to stay at Liverpool and indeed to play against Man City, if that indeed was true.

However, a part of me does understand his family situation is less than ideal as his wife hates England and refuses to live there with him.

[carmine]

I agree, I don't like Masch's refusal to stay at Liverpool and indeed to play against Man City, if that indeed was true.

However, a part of me does understand his family situation is less than ideal as his wife hates England and refuses to live there with him.

If i was a Liverpool supporter my only problem would have been the way he went about it....if the reports are true. A contract these days is becoming/become a worthless piece of paper. I'd be interested to know the extent of the agents orchestration of Mascheranos behaviour.

[rixalex]

Pulis was right. There's a disease in the game.

I think the disease in the game is fairly two sided. If you spend outragous amounts on a player you are taking a risk.

I think rather than viewing how Mascherano has acted badly (especially in light of events a year ago), Liverpool should give credit to many of their players like Kuyt, Gerrard, Torres and Reine who have shown a loyalty and professionalism to a club that has disappointed them in terms of ambition and commitment that they might have expected when they joined.

Commitment and good faith works both ways in a contract.

You say the disease is two sided. Can you explain what is diseased about the way clubs treat players?

[smokie36]

I agree, I don't like Masch's refusal to stay at Liverpool and indeed to play against Man City, if that indeed was true.

However, a part of me does understand his family situation is less than ideal as his wife hates England and refuses to live there with him.

If i was a Liverpool supporter my only problem would have been the way he went about it....if the reports are true. A contract these days is becoming/become a worthless piece of paper. I'd be interested to know the extent of the agents orchestration of Mascheranos behaviour.

Well I'm just as selfish as the players. So I'm glad Mascherano aint going to Inter.....hope you screwed every last euro out of the Spaniards as well.....

[Abrak]

You say the disease is two sided. Can you explain what is diseased about the way clubs treat players?

Well there are two elements....

(1) I believe that a contract is not just about money but intention. I do believe that many players signed with Liverpool in the belief that it was a great club committed to competing at the highest level. Now its ambitions are more along the lines of being 'an also-ran' they might feel this was not what they signed up for.

(2) I do have a slight problem with the whole 'sports' concept that a player is an asset you can trade. It is fairly unusual in an economic context. Banks do not trade bankers. Software companies do not trade software engineers etc.. People should in fact be free agents. Even in football you dont find Real Madrid paying Man U, GBP40m to transfer Ferguson to become Manager.

So I do not think that players are badly treated in anyway, I just think the whole process is rather diseased, manipulative, unacceptable, unhealthy and not in the spirit of sport.

[rixalex]

You say the disease is two sided. Can you explain what is diseased about the way clubs treat players?

Well there are two elements....

(1) I believe that a contract is not just about money but intention. I do believe that many players signed with Liverpool in the belief that it was a great club committed to competing at the highest level. Now its ambitions are more along the lines of being 'an also-ran' they might feel this was not what they signed up for.

I don't see what is diseased about a club not performing as well as a player expected. A player gets no guarantees that a club will do well, just as the club has no guarantees as to how well a player will perform. Both parties are taking a risk on each other and they both go into the signing of the contract in that knowledge.

[SantiSuk]

Thoughtful posting Abrak.

£16 million is a good price for Mascherano in the current climate - my guess is that another year of austerity and failures in the EPL will cut values substantially over the next year. I hope for the club's sake they can find an adequate £10-£15 ish replacement before the window closes. There have been a few big clubs like mine (arsenal) trawling over summer in this pool with limited success.

Two years ago I had no time for Mascherano - dirtiest player in the EPL - but he seemed to mature and soften without losing effectiveness. Maybe he will be a good buy if his wife becomes happy but don't hold your breath for that relationship!

[Abrak]

I don't see what is diseased about a club not performing as well as a player expected. A player gets no guarantees that a club will do well, just as the club has no guarantees as to how well a player will perform. Both parties are taking a risk on each other and they both go into the signing of the contract in that knowledge.

I agree with this comment. The club doesnt know the footballer is going to be fit, the footballer does not know if the club can be successful. My point is that to some extent the 'intention' has changed behind the contract. Namely players have signed contracts in the belief that Liverpool were committed to being a top European club competing for all the trophies. I do not feel there is that commitment anymore.

I think the contract is signed on the basis of 'commitment' on both parties. I think you can see that Liverpool has lowered it sights somewhat in terms of commitment and some players may rightly feel entitled to not feel so committed to the club. This has nothing to do with the clubs performance but how it is responding to it. A player who signs a contract with a top club is not really even guaranteed a place in the team and must accept that.

[smokie36]

I don't see what is diseased about a club not performing as well as a player expected. A player gets no guarantees that a club will do well, just as the club has no guarantees as to how well a player will perform. Both parties are taking a risk on each other and they both go into the signing of the contract in that knowledge.

I agree with this comment. The club doesnt know the footballer is going to be fit, the footballer does not know if the club can be successful. My point is that to some extent the 'intention' has changed behind the contract. Namely players have signed contracts in the belief that Liverpool were committed to being a top European club competing for all the trophies. I do not feel there is that commitment anymore.

I think the contract is signed on the basis of 'commitment' on both parties. I think you can see that Liverpool has lowered it sights somewhat in terms of commitment and some players may rightly feel entitled to not feel so committed to the club. This has nothing to do with the clubs performance but how it is responding to it. A player who signs a contract with a top club is not really even guaranteed a place in the team and must accept that.

This only seves to highlight the gap which has grown between players and fans over the last 20 years. They've forgotten what lucky ba*tards they really are!!

[StevieH]

team for baggies at home:

reina

johnson, carragher, skrtel, agger

lucas poulsen

kuyt gerrard jovanovic

torres