Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

<deleted> that was, but three points is three points. remain utterly unconvinced by roy.

[mrbojangles]

<deleted> that was, but three points is three points.

Yep. I wish we could have been p1ssed off with 3 points stevie

And some good points made by Akram, above. I've had a few beers tonight, so won't respond till tomorrow.

[Jimjim]

What about the Meireles signing? Came out of nowhere. Quality player, yes?

I am still wondering why we re-signed Aurelio if we're not going to start him at left back. Surely he's more natural at that position than Agger. Agger's a great central defender, but he's average as a left back. Head scratcher for me. He did play in Turkey, so perhaps just being cautious since he has bad injury history? Or just a precaution because of a slight knock? His ability is unquestioned, I feel, so just really wonder about this one.

[Jimjim]

<deleted> that was, but three points is three points. remain utterly unconvinced by roy.

Not a great game but a truly fantastic goal by Torres. Been a long time since we've seen him score in the league, since March!

[Devil]

What about the Meireles signing? Came out of nowhere. Quality player, yes?

I am still wondering why we re-signed Aurelio if we're not going to start him at left back. Surely he's more natural at that position than Agger. Agger's a great central defender, but he's average as a left back. Head scratcher for me. He did play in Turkey, so perhaps just being cautious since he has bad injury history? Or just a precaution because of a slight knock? His ability is unquestioned, I feel, so just really wonder about this one.

Yep quality signing that is!

[Jimjim]

As for another striker, epic fail on that one. We tried and got...nobody. At least as far as I can see unless some late story comes out showing that we beat the deadline.

[StevieH]

As for another striker, epic fail on that one. We tried and got...nobody. At least as far as I can see unless some late story comes out showing that we beat the deadline.

fuc_king joke. we can't even attract players who aren't really good enough to play for us. roy states we need cover and/or a partner for torres, just as rafa did before him, nothing happens. still it's all good, we made yet another profit in a transfer window. farce of a club.

[bkkjames]

Come on stevie the midfielder and left back will improve your side-lots of 1 nil , 2-1 scorelines in your future though.

[StevieH]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

[MSingh]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

Undoubtedly however all of what you mention above transferwise would have been sanctioned & agreed to by Woy surely ??

[bkkjames]

The way I see it stevie I think when your new team gels (in a few weeks), I would wager one whole heineken that your record this year will be better than the rafa, bene, aqua, show from last year.

Probably not enough for top 4 but u will be a lot closer than last year. Btw, how is rafa doing with the treble winners of last?

[StevieH]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

Undoubtedly however all of what you mention above transferwise would have been sanctioned & agreed to by Woy surely ??

not sure. i was worried about this in the summer when club officials met with manuel pellegrini (just taken real madrid to 96 points in la liga) and nothing came of it. presumably he asked how much money he'd have to re-build the squad. then kenny dalglish said he wanted the job and the club ignored him to go for hodgson. so it's possible that hodgson was the board's favourite choice because he knew he'd have less than zero money to spend but wouldn't make a fuss.

so roy's either sanctioned all of the above and looks like he hasn't got a clue how to manage a big club or to manage a youth set-up for that matter, or alternatively roy hasn't sanctioned all of the above, purslow is making transfer policy decisions (like he did when we were managerless but still agreed to sell benayoun) in which case roy is a dead duck.

[bkkjames]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

Undoubtedly however all of what you mention above transferwise would have been sanctioned & agreed to by Woy surely ??

not sure. i was worried about this in the summer when club officials met with manuel pellegrini (just taken real madrid to 96 points in la liga) and nothing came of it. presumably he asked how much money he'd have to re-build the squad. then kenny dalglish said he wanted the job and the club ignored him to go for hodgson. so it's possible that hodgson was the board's favourite choice because he knew he'd have less than zero money to spend but wouldn't make a fuss.

so roy's either sanctioned all of the above and looks like he hasn't got a clue how to manage a big club or to manage a youth set-up for that matter, or alternatively roy hasn't sanctioned all of the above, purslow is making transfer policy decisions (like he did when we were managerless but still agreed to sell benayoun) in which case roy is a dead duck.

Youth set-up? When is the last time any of them played a significant part of your first team? 5 years under rafa have produced whom to the first team?

[Abrak]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

As I see it the problem with some of the 'real' fans on this thread - the guys who will be supporting Liverpool when they are in Division 3 is that they dont realize that everyone is not like that. I am a fan 'lite', I have supported Liverpool always but I dont watch them play WBA, I am someone who watches them play MANU. I have never been to Liverpool, I respect their class, tradition and success.

To me Liverpool have got away lucky 'only' losing one of their class players and really Joe Cole is something of a catch under the circumstances. Things could have gone very much worse.

But as I see it time is running out. Sugar Daddies are going to be banned. Liverpool has a massive brand but a hole in its balance sheet, p&l and it needs a new stadium. It really needs significant investment that is bound to lead to short term loss. We all know where the disease is at the club - it is not the manager or the players - unfortunately it might prove terminal.

[MSingh]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

Undoubtedly however all of what you mention above transferwise would have been sanctioned & agreed to by Woy surely ??

not sure. i was worried about this in the summer when club officials met with manuel pellegrini (just taken real madrid to 96 points in la liga) and nothing came of it. presumably he asked how much money he'd have to re-build the squad. then kenny dalglish said he wanted the job and the club ignored him to go for hodgson. so it's possible that hodgson was the board's favourite choice because he knew he'd have less than zero money to spend but wouldn't make a fuss.

so roy's either sanctioned all of the above and looks like he hasn't got a clue how to manage a big club or to manage a youth set-up for that matter, or alternatively roy hasn't sanctioned all of the above, purslow is making transfer policy decisions (like he did when we were managerless but still agreed to sell benayoun) in which case roy is a dead duck.

The way i see it as an Outsider is that Woy has been strategically placed there as a Guy that as you virtually said, can go with the flow there whilst the Club is in the state as it is, a Manger that will at least keep the Club stable, unlike the Pelledrini's, Benitez's & Mourinho's o fthis World how virtually demand open cheque books & there for can & do manage only certain Clubs..

Woy's there until the Club chnages hands, he's G&H Man that perosnally gets paid handsomely, won't kick up a fuss about lack of a Transfer Budget & is completely aware of what he is at Liverpool for..

He can mange " Big Clubs ", he managed Inter Milan, twice, winning the UEFA Cup with them in teh first spell..

But he can also manage on a relatively low Budget, unlike those Managers i mentioned above & would probably been your best bet to do so given the Season he had with Fulham lats Year that will get the Liverpool Supporters that are relatively clueless about Football thinking it's a great Managerial Appointment, when the rest are only to aware of the real reason why he was appointed...

[MSingh]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

As I see it the problem with some of the 'real' fans on this thread - the guys who will be supporting Liverpool when they are in Division 3 is that they dont realize that everyone is not like that. I am a fan 'lite', I have supported Liverpool always but I dont watch them play WBA, I am someone who watches them play MANU. I have never been to Liverpool, I respect their class, tradition and success.

No disresepct to you personally Abrak, but you as a Fan & what you said above are a MASSIVE reeason why people like me, as a Fan, are falling so out of love with " Brand Premiership " & are so incredibly dissillusioned these days with it..

The part that i highlighted specifically is, for me, an absolute Red Rag to a Bull & is ABSOLUTELY the other way round to EVERYTHING i personally stand for..

But of course, it's your perogative & i understand that completely..

[smokie36]

how have they improved us james? we've lost one of our four truly top class players in mascherano and replaced him with an average danish journeyman and a portuguese unknown quantity. we lose the creativity of benayoun and aquilani and replace them with joe cole. in exchange for konchesky we've given fulham a stack of cash plus two of the brightest young talents from our academy. we released diego cavalieri on a free and replaced him with brad jones who is <deleted> at a cost of £2.5m. we STILL haven't got cover for torres when he is injured / needs a rest.

the people who own and run our club are fuc_king jokers.

As I see it the problem with some of the 'real' fans on this thread - the guys who will be supporting Liverpool when they are in Division 3 is that they dont realize that everyone is not like that. I am a fan 'lite', I have supported Liverpool always but I dont watch them play WBA, I am someone who watches them play MANU. I have never been to Liverpool, I respect their class, tradition and success.

No disresepct to you personally Abrak, but you as a Fan & what you said above are a MASSIVE reeason why people like me, as a Fan, are falling so out of love with " Brand Premiership " & are so incredibly dissillusioned these days with it..

The part that i highlighted specifically is, for me, an absolute Red Rag to a Bull & is ABSOLUTELY the other way round to EVERYTHING i personally stand for..

But of course, it's your perogative & i understand that completely..

It'll only go over his head singhy....after all I'd even make the trip to Easter Road to watch us.....nott in a month of imola's Sundays will it ever happen mind!

[Abrak]

No disresepct to you personally Abrak, but you as a Fan & what you said above are a MASSIVE reeason why people like me, as a Fan, are falling so out of love with " Brand Premiership " & are so incredibly dissillusioned these days with it..

The part that i highlighted specifically is, for me, an absolute Red Rag to a Bull & is ABSOLUTELY the other way round to EVERYTHING i personally stand for..

But of course, it's your perogative & i understand that completely..

I am not offended at all. So long as real fans know their loyalty is 'blind'. I will never go off and support someone else but I will simply lose interest. Liverpool will always have their 'real' fans and they will always need you more than me but they do need the likes of me. Personally I think that Torres is at Liverpool because he signed to one of the top ten clubs in Europe and when it isnt he wont be there.

I have the upmost respect for real fans loyalty but it is now a global game with a global audience - it is now the big time. You cant turn back the clock.

[smokie36]

Personally I think that Torres is at Liverpool because he signed to one of the top ten clubs in Europe and when it isnt he wont be there.

Torres is at Liverpool because he has a recently signed long contract....will spend half the season on the treatment table....on that basis no one is willing to pay £60m for him. I'd speculate on why Gerrard is still there but I guess only a scouser could begin to answer that one....

[Abrak]

It'll only go over his head singhy....after all I'd even make the trip to Easter Road to watch us.....nott in a month of imola's Sundays will it ever happen mind!

Actually you miss my point. I might be a fair weather fan of the club but I have been for 30 years. I chose it when I was a young club because it was a great club.

I may well care about what happens to the club over the next six months more than you because you will always love the club whatever happens.

And it is staring over the edge of a precipice.

[MSingh]

No disresepct to you personally Abrak, but you as a Fan & what you said above are a MASSIVE reeason why people like me, as a Fan, are falling so out of love with " Brand Premiership " & are so incredibly dissillusioned these days with it..

The part that i highlighted specifically is, for me, an absolute Red Rag to a Bull & is ABSOLUTELY the other way round to EVERYTHING i personally stand for..

But of course, it's your perogative & i understand that completely..

I am not offended at all. So long as real fans know their loyalty is 'blind'. I will never go off and support someone else but I will simply lose interest. Liverpool will always have their 'real' fans and they will always need you more than me but they do need the likes of me. Personally I think that Torres is at Liverpool because he signed to one of the top ten clubs in Europe and when it isnt he wont be there.

I have the upmost respect for real fans loyalty but it is now a global game with a global audience - it is now the big time. You cant turn back the clock.

How do you define " blind " Abrak out of curiosity ??

But one more question, why do they needs Fans like you, what as a " Fan " do you give the Club, in terms of revenue or actual support ??

[MSingh]

I see you've only named a 21 Man Squad whic doesn't really say a lot for the previous Manager & the way he managed your Academy aye, even with the 2 going to Fulham so late in the day ??

[Jimjim]

Youth set-up? When is the last time any of them played a significant part of your first team? 5 years under rafa have produced whom to the first team?

Martin Kelly and Insua. Kelly's our first choice natural replacement at right back, I'd say. Injury last season meant he didn't come in more while Johnson was injured. Insua was obviously just in the reserves and not in the academy for years but was a youngster and given a chance. So perhaps you can't count him, I don't know. Do reserves count in your argument?

Ngog also was a young reserve that came late in the day and I don't think would count as homegrown but he wasn't old enough on Jan. 1 to be in the 25 man squad list, and started out in the reserves. Does he count?

Pacheco is now an established member of the first team, though on the fringes, and his stinging shot led to the second goal away to Tranzonspor when Kuyt tapped in the easy rebound. He'll play more this season and will count as homegrown when over 21. He won the golden boot at the u-19 Euros this summer.

We also have an amazing talent in Suso, a Spanish youngster only 16, I think, an in the reserves squad already. He was a Rafa signing and has amazing potential. Add to that, Raheem Sterling, another recent Rafa signing, just 16 years of age. Great, young, talent. Future first teamers for sure, if they fulfill the great potential of their obvious talent.

So, for two players who will play bigger roles this season, surely, Kelly and Pacheco. They've already had big impacts in Euro matches this season and last.

For reserves who were given a chance and became regular first teamers, Insua and Ngog.

Also, Jay Spearing and Stephen Darby have played parts for the first team, albeit small parts and Kelly and Pacheco probably have better chances at more first team action.

The Academy slowly improved under Rafa. He said the reserves and Academy were horrible when he got to the club, from Houllier's reign, and it takes time to reform. Things really started to change when Dalglish was appointed, and I think Rafa was quite happy with that, as he said he had problems working with the predecessor.

So, there you go. It's more complicated then some here saying we only have 21 of the 25. That can't be the core of the argument. Arsenal only have 20! But we know their Academy is great so that can't be the only indicator. Not that we have the setup that Arsenal has, but how long as Arsene had to put in to place his system? Over 10 years, and the last few years we've really seen the results of his work. His system recruits well. Beat out Liverpool for Walcott and Ramsey, so it's not like Liverpool hasn't tried.

So, there ya go. Argue away. Not the best Academy the last few years, but certainly not in as dire straits under Rafa as many would like to think.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Jimjim

[StevieH]

Youth set-up? When is the last time any of them played a significant part of your first team? 5 years under rafa have produced whom to the first team?

Martin Kelly and Insua. Kelly's our first choice natural replacement at right back, I'd say. Injury last season meant he didn't come in more while Johnson was injured. Insua was obviously just in the reserves and not in the academy for years but was a youngster and given a chance. So perhaps you can't count him, I don't know. Do reserves count in your argument?

Ngog also was a young reserve that came late in the day and I don't think would count as homegrown but he wasn't old enough on Jan. 1 to be in the 25 man squad list, and started out in the reserves. Does he count?

Pacheco is now an established member of the first team, though on the fringes, and his stinging shot led to the second goal away to Tranzonspor when Kuyt tapped in the easy rebound. He'll play more this season and will count as homegrown when over 21. He won the golden boot at the u-19 Euros this summer.

We also have an amazing talent in Suso, a Spanish youngster only 16, I think, an in the reserves squad already. He was a Rafa signing and has amazing potential. Add to that, Raheem Sterling, another recent Rafa signing, just 16 years of age. Great, young, talent. Future first teamers for sure, if they fulfill the great potential of their obvious talent.

So, for two players who will play bigger roles this season, surely, Kelly and Pacheco. They've already had big impacts in Euro matches this season and last.

For reserves who were given a chance and became regular first teamers, Insua and Ngog.

Also, Jay Spearing and Stephen Darby have played parts for the first team, albeit small parts and Kelly and Pacheco probably have better chances at more first team action.

The Academy slowly improved under Rafa. He said the reserves and Academy were horrible when he got to the club, from Houllier's reign, and it takes time to reform. Things really started to change when Dalglish was appointed, and I think Rafa was quite happy with that, as he said he had problems working with the predecessor.

So, there you go. It's more complicated then some here saying we only have 21 of the 25. That can't be the core of the argument. Arsenal only have 20! But we know their Academy is great so that can't be the only indicator. Not that we have the setup that Arsenal has, but how long as Arsene had to put in to place his system? Over 10 years, and the last few years we've really seen the results of his work. His system recruits well. Beat out Liverpool for Walcott and Ramsey, so it's not like Liverpool hasn't tried.

So, there ya go. Argue away. Not the best Academy the last few years, but certainly not in as dire straits under Rafa as many would like to think.

you've answered james perfectly there jim so i needn't bother. suffice to say that when rafa benitez arrived at melwood he was shocked by what a state the youth set up was in. five years on and the young lads we produced actually go for some money when they don't make the grade at liverpool rather than being released on a free.

suso looks a hel_l of a talent by the way doesn't he? i'm also a big fan of the two young goalkeepers, bouzanis and gulacsi.

[nev]

I'd speculate on why Gerrard is still there but I guess only a scouser could begin to answer that one....

Liverpool mafia

[bkkjames]

Kelly first choice rb? Is that why carra always shifts over there and the greek or agger/skirtl come on in the middle?

[MSingh]

Youth set-up? When is the last time any of them played a significant part of your first team? 5 years under rafa have produced whom to the first team?

Martin Kelly and Insua. Kelly's our first choice natural replacement at right back, I'd say. Injury last season meant he didn't come in more while Johnson was injured. Insua was obviously just in the reserves and not in the academy for years but was a youngster and given a chance. So perhaps you can't count him, I don't know. Do reserves count in your argument?

Ngog also was a young reserve that came late in the day and I don't think would count as homegrown but he wasn't old enough on Jan. 1 to be in the 25 man squad list, and started out in the reserves. Does he count?

So, there ya go. Argue away. Not the best Academy the last few years, but certainly not in as dire straits under Rafa as many would like to think.

you've answered james perfectly there jim so i needn't bother. suffice to say that when rafa benitez arrived at melwood he was shocked by what a state the youth set up was in. five years on and the young lads we produced actually go for some money when they don't make the grade at liverpool rather than being released on a free.

suso looks a hel_l of a talent by the way doesn't he? i'm also a big fan of the two young goalkeepers, bouzanis and gulacsi.

Except for the fact that Insua was a Boca Juniors Player until you Signed him permanently when he was 20 Years Old & you paid a 1.5m fee fo N'Gog when he was 19 but apart from that, yeah perfect answer & proof that " Not the best Academy the last few years but certainly not in as dire straits under Rafa as many would like to think " if ever i've seen it..

[Englander]

If you had the most talented 16yo boy in the Merseyside area and had to choose a club in the North West where he would most likely advance as a player Liverpool would be at the bottom of the list of where to send him as for 10 years or more theyve rarely given youth a chance, until that changes why would parents of the top talent want their kids to join them, other then a nice big bung.

[Abrak]

How do you define " blind " Abrak out of curiosity ??

But one more question, why do they needs Fans like you, what as a " Fan " do you give the Club, in terms of revenue or actual support ??

By 'blind' I did not mean you didnt 'see' only that you dont have to 'look'. You will always love Liverpool whatever happens it is 'unconditional'.

As to what I 'offer' it is not a lot. But I am probably like 99% of 'fans'. I pay my UBC subscription which I guess helps. My son is now a fan. I have supported the club for 30 years. I get up at 2.00am to watch them in the Champions League. I guess I am like the other say 500,000 Thai fans (although I am not Thai) and maybe the other 5 or 50 million globally. We dont contribute much at all but it will all add up to something in the end... hopefully.

[Jimjim]

you've answered james perfectly there jim so i needn't bother. suffice to say that when rafa benitez arrived at melwood he was shocked by what a state the youth set up was in. five years on and the young lads we produced actually go for some money when they don't make the grade at liverpool rather than being released on a free.

suso looks a hel_l of a talent by the way doesn't he? i'm also a big fan of the two young goalkeepers, bouzanis and gulacsi.

Yes, Suso looks amazing. All about fulfilling potential I'd say, with him and Sterling both.

And, two Rafa buys, Shelvey and Michael Ngoo made headlines this week for England U-19s. (yes, I know Shelvey was just bought at 18 years of age but was still a Rafa buy and still just 18. As for Ngoo, he's done quite nicely in Liverpool's Academy).

Liverpool lads fire Lions to victory

Kelly first choice rb? Is that why carra always shifts over there and the greek or agger/skirtl come on in the middle?

Perhaps you could have read better. First choice sub, I said, which I think you meant to say. I noted this in passing, but anyway as he made his amazing man-of-the match debut in the group stage of the Champions League last season he got injured late in the second half and spent most of the rest of the season injured.

He's played and scored for England recently, also. U-21s I think?

Remains to be seen whether Roy will still prefer Carra as backup or Kelly, but Kelly's talent deserves a chance. In fact, Roy seems to see his talent as he played him at left back away to Trabzonspor, but, not being a fan of Liverpool, I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Except for the fact that Insua was a Boca Juniors Player until you Signed him permanently when he was 20 Years Old & you paid a 1.5m fee fo N'Gog when he was 19 but apart from that, yeah perfect answer & proof that " Not the best Academy the last few years but certainly not in as dire straits under Rafa as many would like to think " if ever i've seen it..

Yep, I noted he was a reserve bought from elsewhere, not one who came up through the ranks for years and years. He signed on loan when he was 17, came to the club around his 18th birthday before making it permanent later on. So? Don't really see the argument there except just for the sake or arguing. He played for the reserves a year or two and then got his big chance, doesn't matter that the first couple years were on loan. And like I said, I know he didn't come up through our academy. I know Ngog didn't, as well. Just noting they were young reserves given a chance. But it was the start of Rafa's policy to improve the youth ranks, academy or reserves, by recruiting younger and younger. I noted those things clearly in my post so thanks for noticing.