Liverpool F.c.

[alfieconn]

How do you define " blind " Abrak out of curiosity ??

But one more question, why do they needs Fans like you, what as a " Fan " do you give the Club, in terms of revenue or actual support ??

By 'blind' I did not mean you didnt 'see' only that you dont have to 'look'. You will always love Liverpool whatever happens it is 'unconditional'.

As to what I 'offer' it is not a lot. But I am probably like 99% of 'fans'. I pay my UBC subscription which I guess helps. My son is now a fan. I have supported the club for 30 years. I get up at 2.00am to watch them in the Champions League. I guess I am like the other say 500,000 Thai fans (although I am not Thai) and maybe the other 5 or 50 million globally. We dont contribute much at all but it will all add up to something in the end... hopefully.

You got up to watch them, past tense old chap

[MSingh]

Yep, I noted he was a reserve bought from elsewhere, not one who came up through the ranks for years and years. He signed on loan when he was 17, came to the club around his 18th birthday before making it permanent later on. So? Don't really see the argument there except just for the sake or arguing. He played for the reserves a year or two and then got his big chance, doesn't matter that the first couple years were on loan. And like I said, I know he didn't come up through our academy. I know Ngog didn't, as well. Just noting they were young reserves given a chance. But it was the start of Rafa's policy to improve the youth ranks, academy or reserves, by recruiting younger and younger. I noted those things clearly in my post so thanks for noticing.

He didn't have no Policy to improve the Academy, he obviously didn't see an Academy as a priority hence him paying the money he did for the likes of Ngog, Insua & Shelvey even & having to buy Youth, that's the point in all this !!

[LeungKen]

I read with interest that there is a testimonial match for Jamie Carragher tonight against Everton.

Whilst I have always been a Man United follower, I have always have a lot of respect for the true professionals of the game, of which Garragher is one.

Well done Jamie, and I hope you keep playing many more great games for years to come, barring those against the Red Devils of course..........

[StevieH]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

[longstebe]

Hats off to Carra for his service to the club. Top lad. 2 great penalties;) from the man himself.

Kenny said he's gonna get hold of him on Monday morning for not being asked to play.

35,000 + turned out for Carra, brilliant.

[Englander]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook....Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

Thatll mean that Liverpool owners would be answerable to a Tory govt, oh the irony!

[StevieH]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook....Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

Thatll mean that Liverpool owners would be answerable to a Tory govt, oh the irony!

a nationalised, publicly-owned bank under a tory government, oh the irony.

[Abrak]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook....Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

Thatll mean that Liverpool owners would be answerable to a Tory govt, oh the irony!

a nationalised, publicly-owned bank under a tory government, oh the irony.

Actually what would happen if they foreclosed on the owners?

[Englander]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook....Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

Thatll mean that Liverpool owners would be answerable to a Tory govt, oh the irony!

a nationalised, publicly-owned bank under a tory government, oh the irony.

But it happened under a Labour govt, anyway the 3 main parties are all working to the same agenda.

[Englander]

LFC fans with Facebook accounts, please visit this page and sign up. Also please forward it around to everyone you know, Facebook link it, Tweet it, whatever you can to spread the word. Good initiative this is:

LFC RBS Black Monday: http://www.facebook....Fbh6Hoy&h=57b8b

Thatll mean that Liverpool owners would be answerable to a Tory govt, oh the irony!

a nationalised, publicly-owned bank under a tory government, oh the irony.

Actually what would happen if they foreclosed on the owners?

Theyd go into liquidation, would have to seel some assets ie Gerrard Torres, they lose 9 points or more if they didnt come out of administration properly and then the bank would sell to whoever they desired.

But it was reported in todays press that the bank can own them outright should the Americans not keep paying the money owed, and wont go into liquidation but the bank will try and recoup whatever money theyre owed.

However i do think there will be a bit of a fuss in the press were the bank to hold onto Liverpool for too long at the taxpayers expense, with them being a high profile easy target.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Englander

[longstebe]

There was an interview with some guy regarding the takeover, can't remember who. He was saying any Tom Dick an Harry that comes out and says he's gonna do this and gonna do that is usually full of <deleted> anyway. Someone who is professional stays out of the media until the very end. Makes sense really. The guy was referring to the Chinky.

[LeungKen]

Please keep racism out of football.

[NADTATIDA1]

And Politics!

[Jimjim]

Yep, I noted he was a reserve bought from elsewhere, not one who came up through the ranks for years and years. He signed on loan when he was 17, came to the club around his 18th birthday before making it permanent later on. So? Don't really see the argument there except just for the sake or arguing. He played for the reserves a year or two and then got his big chance, doesn't matter that the first couple years were on loan. And like I said, I know he didn't come up through our academy. I know Ngog didn't, as well. Just noting they were young reserves given a chance. But it was the start of Rafa's policy to improve the youth ranks, academy or reserves, by recruiting younger and younger. I noted those things clearly in my post so thanks for noticing.

He didn't have no Policy to improve the Academy, he obviously didn't see an Academy as a priority hence him paying the money he did for the likes of Ngog, Insua & Shelvey even & having to buy Youth, that's the point in all this !!

With respect, he did have a policy to improve the academy. He also had a policy to buy young reserves so we can have talent for the future. They go hand in hand. Obviously, it will take longer for the younger players to come up, but the recruitment has vastly improved with players like Pacheco signed at a young age and brought up through the academy.

He obviously did see the Academy as a priority if you've read the interviews with him over the years. As a fan, I'd have to say I've read a lot more about it than you, and can see that we've been signing players to the academy at younger and younger ages in order to improve the quality. The system needed a whole overhaul and it's gradually getting better with the coaching and the systems and the recruitment.

Sorry, just not convincing that just because he bought promising reserves IN ADDITION TO signing younger players for the youth squads that doesn't mean the Academy wasn't a priority.

[Jimjim]

There was an interview with some guy regarding the takeover, can't remember who. He was saying any Tom Dick an Harry that comes out and says he's gonna do this and gonna do that is usually full of <deleted> anyway. Someone who is professional stays out of the media until the very end. Makes sense really. The guy was referring to the Chinky.

Yes I saw this too. Not a fan of your vernacular usage there, but ya that interview could be true. He also said there was definitely a serious bidder there that nobody knows of, seemed like. Or maybe he was just saying in general, it often happens this way.

Anyway, here's how I see it possibly happening. Nobody buys the club. The bank takes over as an approved takeover by the Premier League (according to reports). No points deducted, etc. as it seems the Premier League has said that the bank could take over the club and as long as they did not go in to administration but just took over the club it was no problem.

The bank then looks to sell the club to one of the bidders at a bargain price for the buyer, possibly equal to or a bit more than the unpaid loans so the bank can get that money somehow.

We have new owners, Americans get nothing (that would be sweet) and the bank works with the club to make sure it all goes as smoothly as possible.

Just speculation but it seems like nothing happened as the bidders are either waiting until the last minute when the Americans are desperate or they're actually waiting to buy at a lower price when the bank has control of the club.

It all sounds scary but I'm an optimist and according to the reports I've read, I think it could very well play out this way.

[PattayaParent]

^But would the bank be able to sell for only the amount of borrowed debt owed to them or would they have to sell to recover the full amount of borrowed debt?

[StevieH]

^But would the bank be able to sell for only the amount of borrowed debt owed to them or would they have to sell to recover the full amount of borrowed debt?

this is the thing, any talk of RBS selling the club for a knockdown £120m or something is just silly - bidding will open at the £237m or so owed to RBS. they're going to cover their arse at least.

[NADTATIDA1]

I dont think bidding will open anywhere near that Stevie.and the RBS will be lucky if they get near that figure.

[Jimjim]

I would be more inclined to agree with Stevie on this one but perhaps they would just sell to get SOME money? They've already made millions and millions and millions off of the interest, right? So maybe they wouldn't even need to get the whole loan amount back to make a profit on the whole deal.

Crossing my fingers the bank won't let them refinance again. If not, we're seriously f***ed.

And, here's an update on the Liverpool Academy.

The Kids are Alright

[smokie36]

I dont think bidding will open anywhere near that Stevie.and the RBS will be lucky if they get near that figure.

I've been following the recent events with interest and the figures to me seem way skewed. An ageing team old stadium and no real plan for the future priced at £400-500m.

Big reality check needed.

[longstebe]

My apologies to our Chinese friends for my vernacular usage.

[StevieH]

I dont think bidding will open anywhere near that Stevie.and the RBS will be lucky if they get near that figure.

I've been following the recent events with interest and the figures to me seem way skewed. An ageing team old stadium and no real plan for the future priced at £400-500m.

Big reality check needed.

the global merchandising revenues alone make it an attractive investment. liverpool fc is still one of the top handful of football brands around the world. i think that when we're bought it will be for a figure around what the kenny huang consortium was knocking about.

still do think there's many a slip to go in this though. apparently now our account and sale at RBS is being personally managed by steven hester.

[carmine]

My apologies to our Chinese friends for my vernacular usage.

Times are getting rather silly if you have to apologise for that. Just gross over sensitivity. I hate racism in sport but thats just ridiculous.

Apologies for going off topic.

[PattayaParent]

^But would the bank be able to sell for only the amount of borrowed debt owed to them or would they have to sell to recover the full amount of borrowed debt?

this is the thing, any talk of RBS selling the club for a knockdown £120m or something is just silly - bidding will open at the £237m or so owed to RBS. they're going to cover their arse at least.

But the total borrowed debt is nearer (and possibly over) the £400m mark.

Would the bank legally be able to sell the club for only their own stake and exclude all other investors from recoving their monies?

That's what struck me as odd with the Chinese guy. He was supposed to buy the club directly from the bank by paying off the debt. But all companies are run on borrowings and bank overdrafts, even the most profitable ones. So that makes ANY company up for grabs to someone who can pay the bank debt and sod the other debtors?

[StevieH]

^But would the bank be able to sell for only the amount of borrowed debt owed to them or would they have to sell to recover the full amount of borrowed debt?

this is the thing, any talk of RBS selling the club for a knockdown £120m or something is just silly - bidding will open at the £237m or so owed to RBS. they're going to cover their arse at least.

But the total borrowed debt is nearer (and possibly over) the £400m mark.

Would the bank legally be able to sell the club for only their own stake and exclude all other investors from recoving their monies?

That's what struck me as odd with the Chinese guy. He was supposed to buy the club directly from the bank by paying off the debt. But all companies are run on borrowings and bank overdrafts, even the most profitable ones. So that makes ANY company up for grabs to someone who can pay the bank debt and sod the other debtors?

have a read of this mate, out today. matt scott is doing great work at the guardian at the minute:

RBS moves to force George Gillett and Tom Hicks to sell Liverpool

• RBS places club's loans into its toxic-assets division<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-collapse: collapse; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; ">• Deadline for refinancing of owners' loans is 6 October

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/sep/09/rbs-tom-hicks-george-gillett-sell-liverpool

Digger exclusive

Tom Hicks and George Gillett's ill-starred reign as owners of Liverpoollooks like having less than a month to run after the club's loans withRoyal Bank of Scotland were placed into its toxic-assets division.

The deadline for the refinancing of the owners' personal loans from RBS is 6 October, and that now looks set to be the date that Hicks and Gillett's association with England's most successful club will end. The bank's decision to switch the debts to its Global Restructuring Group is the strongest possible signal that these loans will not be extended.

The co-owners' previous attempt to refinance the debts in June, when they are believed to have offered to secure the loans against their US assets, was overruled by the club's board, led by the chairman, Martin Broughton. Now, with the loans having been shifted into RBS's so-called "bad bank", where all toxic assets have been housed since last year, it is clear the club's lender has also adopted a more steely stance towards the Americans.

One source with a knowledge of Liverpool's dealings with RBS said: "If it has been taken out of the hands of the corporate banking department they'll have a much more ruthless approach on 6 October." An informed view from another source close to the situation is that the bank would hope to sell the club, possibly at a knockdown price, in the coming weeks or as soon possible after 6 October.

According to the club's accounts to July 2009 Liverpool's owners owe £237.4m to RBS. Through companies in the UK and overseas, Hicks and Gillett are also personally exposed to tens of millions of pounds in other commitments to the club and its lender. These have been a mixture of cash, which the pair have injected through equity, and guarantees to the RBS loans. Last year's accounts stated these amounted to £145.3m, but it is believed to have risen dramatically after the last refinancing agreed five months ago.

RBS would hope to achieve an orderly sale without having to take control of Liverpool. However, depending on the terms of the April refinancing agreement – which have never been made public – that may prove difficult if the co-owners, who value the club at £800m, refuse to go quietly.

One tool at RBS's disposal is to force the insolvency of Liverpool's UK parent and associated companies. It is clear from mortgage documents lodged with Companies House that in the event of default RBS has the power to place Kop Football and Kop Football (Holdings), as well as Gillett's loan-security vehicle, Football UK Ltd, into administration. However that would be unpalatable for the bank, Liverpool's board and the Premier League since it would require the imposition of a nine-point penalty on the club.

By exercising those clauses the bank would also effectively take control of Liverpool. Although RBS's restructuring group describes itself as being responsible for "the management of any problem lending portfolios", the bank has no long-term plans to hold the club as its subsidiary. Instead it is expected RBS would prefer to fulfil another of its stated aims – the "maximising [of] debt recoveries" – by selling the club in short order.

That means there are also strong signs RBS will now be prepared to accept a knockdown price in order to cut its ties. During negotiations with prospective buyers Broughton, and the investment bank advising him, Barclays Capital, have maintained that Liverpool's debts with RBS must be paid in full as a minimum sale price.

Provided buyers still retain an interest in taking over Liverpool beyond 6 October, it will mean a more orderly sale process. There would be only one party for purchasers to negotiate with and the club's debts would be manageable.

The departure of Hicks and Gillett is an outcome that would delight Liverpool fans. The Kop Faithful group wrote in an open letter to the RBS group's chief executive, Stephen Hester, this week: "Hicks and Gillett were proved to be no more than a pair of liars. The promised 'no Glazer style buy out' was all of a sudden [a leveraged buy out] – a club £350m in debt to effectively buy itself, when it had been sold for less than £180m in what seemed no time before."

[longstebe]

This is going to be really interesting when we go to the mancs and play the same way as we did today. (oops, vernacular usage again).

Poulsen and Lucas, sh!te. Koncheskey done ok not to mention Pepe.

[StevieH]

hodgson is not convincing anyone. we set up like a midtable side, we play possession football like a midtable side, we sit back like a midtable side. united will pull us to pieces if we play like this again.

pepe reina is still incredible though. always worth saying that.

[macanello]

Weird really weird

Last night I watched Fulham play in red. I know it was Fulham because they were playing away from home and were playing not to get beaten. Then I saw the final score and realised it was Liverham/fulpool

Whatever Roy but that is not Liverpool. Liverpool don't play that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PattayaParent]

Which manager will get the sack first, Grant or Hodgson?

I reckon Hodgson must be favourite so long as MON is still out of work, then they can go back to a system they know.

[StevieH]

hodgson won't get the sack. the club can't afford to fire another manager for starters, but he's a safe pair of hands for the owners who won't make demands on them like benitez did. roy's appointment was all about compromise and lowering of expectations and accepting mediocrity because of the state the owners and administrators have made of the club.