Liverpool F.c.

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

We should have done that in the summer, it now looks like that would have been our last chance to get a premium for him.

The hard work in this is on the training pitch. Get the Liverpool defence into shape. They are not bad players they just need to be told what to do; drill it into them. Seems a lack of discipline to me. Not sure what they know what they are supposed to be doing at times. BUT it can be sorted.

 

In saying that; individual defensive mistakes can happen. 

[BangrakBob]

Just now, owl sees all said:

The hard work in this is on the training pitch. Get the Liverpool defence into shape. They are not bad players they just need to be told what to do; drill it into them. Seems a lack of discipline to me. Not sure what they know what they are supposed to be doing at times. BUT it can be sorted.

 

In saying that; individual defensive mistakes can happen. 

I have to agree with Stevie, these players are not good enough to execute the manager's system. As ever goal we ship generally relates to players being out of position or individual errors, lack of concentration.

They are not bad players (the defense) but they are not good enough to push us forward, we are regressing. 

You can't underestimate the effect this is having on the whole team. We have great attacking players that are missing chances, easy chances, and probably part of that problem is they think they need to score every chance because the lads behind them are going to ship 3 goals. Undue pressure.

I also think we are a team of quilts, they are all soft. 

 

[StevieH]

4 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

I have to agree with Stevie, these players are not good enough to execute the manager's system. As ever goal we ship generally relates to players being out of position or individual errors, lack of concentration.

They are not bad players (the defense) but they are not good enough to push us forward, we are regressing. 

You can't underestimate the effect this is having on the whole team. We have great attacking players that are missing chances, easy chances, and probably part of that problem is they think they need to score every chance because the lads behind them are going to ship 3 goals. Undue pressure.

I also think we are a team of quilts, they are all soft. 

 

 

yeah, this is a huge issue. notwithstanding a lack of quality and ability in mignolet, lovren and moreno, we have absolutely no leadership in the back line and pretty much through the rest of the squad. they're all lightweights and i'd love to play against most of them, they're pushovers most of the time. sometimes if you're not the best player, attitude and will to win can make you a better, most consistent performer. jamie carragher wasn't the most gifted defender around but his desire to win, his mentality and his organizational ability made him a top quality player. i'd give my left spud for one of him in our squad now.

 

you look back at the rafa benitez team of 2008/9 and there were about 7 or 8 captains in the starting XI. reina, carragher, hyypia, alonso, mascherano, gerrard, kuyt, even torres. leaders. there's nothing like that in our current squad and i think it just makes us easy to roll over.

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

I have to agree with Stevie, these players are not good enough to execute the manager's system. As ever goal we ship generally relates to players being out of position or individual errors, lack of concentration.

They are not bad players (the defense) but they are not good enough to push us forward, we are regressing. 

You can't underestimate the effect this is having on the whole team. We have great attacking players that are missing chances, easy chances, and probably part of that problem is they think they need to score every chance because the lads behind them are going to ship 3 goals. Undue pressure.

I also think we are a team of quilts, they are all soft. 

A couple of points here Bob. 

 

I've watched most of Liverpools's games this season and I can't yet suss out either their formation or their style of play. Against Arsenal they were zonal in defence and it worked well. Since then I can't see the same. I personally don't like man to man defending at corners but it doesn't matter 'cause I'm not the 'pool mgr.

 

The wasted chances you refer to are the result of not having width and not having a brain in midfield. The really good teams work hard off the ball.

 

Salah should serve others better than he does. Get to the goal line and put the crosses in. At the moment he is cutting in from the half way line. But it all depends upon Klopp's system.

 

What has happened to Andrew Robertson; is he injured?

[carmine]

35 minutes ago, StevieH said:

 

i am finding myself just ranting about the owners lately, they are beyond useless. in fact they are offensive. and i am tired of hearing other liverpool fans defend them for the fact that they are better than the previous owners. the previous owners, those cowboys, nearly took the club into administration and appointed roy hodgson. they are no gauge by which to judge FSG.

 

judge FSG on their merits and they have continually not backed the manager sufficiently, they have ballsed up deals very publicly when they knew how important that player was to the manager, they continue to shun the club and the fans and treat it as just another corporate asset in their portfolio and they prioritise marketing deals and increasing the value of their asset far above being equipped as a club to win trophies and be successful on the pitch. in short, they do not care. 

 

klopp is a far better manager than they are owners. klopp is also a better manager than he has players with which to work in this squad. he wanted 3 specific players in the summer, they got him 1 of them who is turning out pretty well. 

 

klopp has made a few mistakes, sure. all managers do. but the blame for where we are and our not kicking on and strengthening from a position of strength in the summer lies squarely, as always, with the carpetbaggers who own us and who run us from <deleted> boston. they have no interest in the club actually being successful. 

 

The mere mention of Hodgson had me reminiscing back to when he had Harry Kane taking the corners for England.  Tactical genius!!

[champers]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

The hard work in this is on the training pitch. Get the Liverpool defence into shape. They are not bad players they just need to be told what to do; drill it into them. Seems a lack of discipline to me. Not sure what they know what they are supposed to be doing at times. BUT it can be sorted.

 

In saying that; individual defensive mistakes can happen. 

I quite agree. The zonal marking system seems to have been drilled into the defence. On one occasion v Spurs everyone took up their positions for a corner and Harry Kane was stood like Billy No Mates in the 6 yard box. I thing Gomez is a class act and should get a run at centre back.

[smokie36]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

A couple of points here Bob. 

 

I've watched most of Liverpools's games this season and I can't yet suss out either their formation or their style of play. Against Arsenal they were zonal in defence and it worked well. Since then I can't see the same. I personally don't like man to man defending at corners but it doesn't matter 'cause I'm not the 'pool mgr.

 

The wasted chances you refer to are the result of not having width and not having a brain in midfield. The really good teams work hard off the ball.

 

Salah should serve others better than he does. Get to the goal line and put the crosses in. At the moment he is cutting in from the half way line. But it all depends upon Klopp's system.

 

What has happened to Andrew Robertson; is he injured?

 

 

Have to disagree regards Salah...last 2 games he has looked a real threat.

 

If we'd pushed forward more second half it would have been a cricket score on Sunday.

[owl sees all]

17 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

Have to disagree regards Salah...last 2 games he has looked a real threat.

 

If we'd pushed forward more second half it would have been a cricket score on Sunday.

I'm not saying Salah is not good. I'll have in my EPL team for this season all day long. He is fast and hard to shake off the ball and if Liverpool are destined to becoming a counter-attacking team then he IS the man. But I feel that he should be bringing others into play more.

 

If he is a winger; then use him as such. It doesn't matter how fast a player is - even Usain Bolt - a pass will be faster. I want to see Salah develop into a player whose speed from a standing start can crack open even the best defences (Lineker, Greaves).

 

He is being under ultilised in my view.

Edited October 24, 2017 by owl sees all

[Rc2702]

Just now, owl sees all said:

I'm not saying Salah is not good. I'll have in my EPL team for this season all day long. He is fast and hard to shake off the ball and if Liverpool are destined to becoming a counter-attacking team then he IS the man. But I feel that he should be bringing others into play more.

 

If he is a winger; then use him as such. It doesn't matter how fast a player is - even Usain Bolt - a pass will be faster. I want to see Salah develop into a player whose speed from a standing start can crack open even the best defences (Lineker, Greaves).

 

He is being under ultilised in my view.

Salah on the ball reminds me of that argentian guy a bit. Ex Madrid and utd and now psg I think. He gets the job done but it ain't pretty. His passing is a bit below.

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Salah on the ball reminds me of that argentian guy a bit. Ex Madrid and utd and now psg I think. He gets the job done but it ain't pretty. His passing is a bit below.

What job is that Rc?

 

Liverpool need to sort out their system. Surely that dos'n't revolve around Salah making 20/30 even 40 metre runs.

 

I'm not moaning like Bob. I know Liverpool have the players. They need to sort out how best to ultilise the players on the pitch and play more as a team instead of a bunch of good individuals. Perhaps the manager should employ a coach??!!

[StevieH]

9 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

What job is that Rc?

 

Liverpool need to sort out their system. Surely that dos'n't revolve around Salah making 20/30 even 40 metre runs.

 

I'm not moaning like Bob. I know Liverpool have the players. They need to sort out how best to ultilise the players on the pitch and play more as a team instead of a bunch of good individuals. Perhaps the manager should employ a coach??!!

 

that's it though isn't it? liverpool don't "have the players". liverpool have a few excellent attacking players, three midfielders in the team who wouldn't get a game for chelsea, city, spurs or united and a complete farce in defence and in goal. 

 

you can't best utilize your players when they make mistakes a 12 year old wouldn't make. when your left-back and your goalkeeper have the combined IQ of a walnut. when your goalkeeper and first choice centre back lovren have less courage than the lion in the wizard of oz. 

 

emre can is another who flatters to deceive. should have kicked on into being a smart, savvy midfielder now but still makes hugely basic errors.

[smokie36]

6 minutes ago, StevieH said:

 

that's it though isn't it? liverpool don't "have the players". liverpool have a few excellent attacking players, three midfielders in the team who wouldn't get a game for chelsea, city, spurs or united and a complete farce in defence and in goal. 

 

you can't best utilize your players when they make mistakes a 12 year old wouldn't make. when your left-back and your goalkeeper have the combined IQ of a walnut. when your goalkeeper and first choice centre back lovren have less courage than the lion in the wizard of oz. 

 

emre can is another who flatters to deceive. should have kicked on into being a smart, savvy midfielder now but still makes hugely basic errors.

 

Spot on as usual Stevie.

 

Your front three is bloody good though!

 

Well Firmino as number nine is not going to worry your hall of fame lol....

[Rc2702]

Just now, owl sees all said:

What job is that Rc?

 

Liverpool need to sort out their system. Surely that dos'n't revolve around Salah making 20/30 even 40 metre runs.

 

I'm not moaning like Bob. I know Liverpool have the players. They need to sort out how best to ultilise the players on the pitch and play more as a team instead of a bunch of good individuals. Perhaps the manager should employ a coach??!!

I like him getting forward in that direct way but he has been a bit wasteful at times. He tries though. 

 

Manager is as much to blame than anyone in this. He has no balls he's acting like a bit of yes man and not being forceful enough at boardroom level and then he commends the team he has during the window and now he has egg all over his face. At least he subbed Lovren early and then reverted back to his stupid subbing system which just looks pathetic against the run of results he's had. 

 

Smiling at the goals too. Is it possibble klopp is just too nice or something. Smiling at press conferences continually saying sorry it's pathetic. He's not doing his job it's that simple.  Maybe heynckes is keeping the seat warm.

 

 

[StevieH]

the front three, or four with mane, will pretty soon get pissed off at what they're playing in front of though mate. needing to score 3 or 4 to win every match is not a viable long-term strategy.

[owl sees all]

7 minutes ago, StevieH said:

the front three, or four with mane, will pretty soon get pissed off at what they're playing in front of though mate. needing to score 3 or 4 to win every match is not a viable long-term strategy.

Oh come now Stevie (1 would have done against Man U). We are all liverpool fans here; and all want success. We have to go with what we have. Moaning about the board room; not for me!

 

How many  of the Leicester side would have made it into the 'big 6's' teams?  They were successful because every player knew the system. I'm not suggesting that Liverpool mimic another team's play but the mode of play has to reflect the players in the club and on the pitch.

 

There are many ways to play football. Possession play, tippy-tappy, wing play with a big, bustling CF, counter-play etc. I feel that liverpool have yet to discover theirs' and ultilise the players they have.

 

I am also not at all keen on these managers who are constantly hugging and kissing their players. Give me respect over 'fondness' any day (Cullis, Ramsey, Shanks, Cloughie).

 

I'm trying to find out the where-abouts of Andrew Robertson. Just two games and he was excellent. A young, fast wing-back who can get forward and actually get a good cross in. Is he injured anyone? 

[Bredbury Blue]

As a matter of interest, what was your go-to back 5 before klopp arrived?

[StevieH]

i think what klopp wants to do is quite clear, and we'd be doing it a whole lot better and more successfully if our owners had signed van dijk and keita in the summer like he asked them to. 

[owl sees all]

8 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

As a matter of interest, what was your go-to back 5 before klopp arrived?

If that was for me BB then I'll have to get back later on that. I don't really mind who is on the pitch. The manager has that prerogative.

 

I want to see all the players singing from the same hymn sheet.

[Rc2702]

This is going to get worse before it gets better. We will some more wallopings like this if he does not address the teams defensive problems. January is a long way away so it's not signings that will save the day. 13 more games before Christmas.  Lets hope he stops smiling or smirking or whatever it is.

[BangrakBob]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Oh come now Stevie (1 would have done against Man U). We are all liverpool fans here; and all want success. We have to go with what we have. Moaning about the board room; not for me!

 

How many  of the Leicester side would have made it into the 'big 6's' teams?  They were successful because every player knew the system. I'm not suggesting that Liverpool mimic another team's play but the mode of play has to reflect the players in the club and on the pitch.

 

There are many ways to play football. Possession play, tippy-tappy, wing play with a big, bustling CF, counter-play etc. I feel that liverpool have yet to discover theirs' and ultilise the players they have.

 

I am also not at all keen on these managers who are constantly hugging and kissing their players. Give me respect over 'fondness' any day (Cullis, Ramsey, Shanks, Cloughie).

 

I'm trying to find out the where-abouts of Andrew Robertson. Just two games and he was excellent. A young, fast wing-back who can get forward and actually get a good cross in. Is he injured anyone? 

The only reason we didn't lose to Man United was because Mourinho did not take his chance. Look at Mourinho's away record against big sides, draw and draw after draw. That's he tactic, fair enough, but they would have battered us if they had a go.

 

Leicester were not successful just because they played a system well, there were many other variables that contributed to their success, top sides were not playing as expected, lesser teams started beating big teams more frequent than expected etc. 

 

Our manager plays his style of football, it has been proven to work, but it is such a risky style of football that it requires a particular level of footballing intelligence and concentration. In the long run I think that will be proven.

 

The owners of your football club, deserve discussion, or as you prefer to call it "moaning". As fans we pay our money to support this club, in various means and ways. Without the fans the owners have no business.

The way it is being run, effects how we play on the pitch, and the players that are on that pitch.

Were you happy about what we have under Hodgson, were you not bothered about Gillett & Hicks?

 

[BangrakBob]

Just looking at this suggested line-up makes me feel less anxious about our next match.

Do it Jurgen...

 

 

[Rc2702]

Just now, BangrakBob said:

The only reason we didn't lose to Man United was because Mourinho did not take his chance. Look at Mourinho's away record against big sides, draw and draw after draw. That's he tactic, fair enough, but they would have battered us if they had a go.

 

Leicester were not successful just because they played a system well, there were many other variables that contributed to their success, top sides were not playing as expected, lesser teams started beating big teams more frequent than expected etc. 

 

Our manager plays his style of football, it has been proven to work, but it is such a risky style of football that it requires a particular level of footballing intelligence and concentration. In the long run I think that will be proven.

 

The owners of your football club, deserve discussion, or as you prefer to call it "moaning". As fans we pay our money to support this club, in various means and ways. Without the fans the owners have no business.

The way it is being run, effects how we play on the pitch, and the players that are on that pitch.

Were you happy about what we have under Hodgson, were you not bothered about Gillett & Hicks?

 

Wholly disagree with that statement on Leicester.  The last 8 games before their PL winning season got them 8 wins. They had a system and it served them very well into the next season. Tottenham were on fire until WH game and could not catch them.

 

What's happening on the pitch is Klopp's job and the defensive aspect of his regime seems to be coming under more and more scrutiny. Seems to me the only person not being blamed is JK and yet his record of goals against at Dortmund was as bad and the two seasons he delivered at BD proper, he had a Polish lad banging them in for fun.

[BangrakBob]

Btw OSA, nowt wrong with Roberston, I'm surprised we haven't seen him either.

[BangrakBob]

7 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Wholly disagree with that statement on Leicester.  The last 8 games before their PL winning season got them 8 wins. They had a system and it served them very well into the next season. Tottenham were on fire until WH game and could not catch them.

 

What's happening on the pitch is Klopp's job and the defensive aspect of his regime seems to be coming under more and more scrutiny. Seems to me the only person not being blamed is JK and yet his record of goals against at Dortmund was as bad and the two seasons he delivered at BD proper, he had a Polish lad banging them in for fun.

Yeah I didn't say the system didn't work, I said the system wasn't the only reason, there were other contributing factors. 

 

All I ever here from tabloid noise on twitter is scrutiny of JK, plenty of blame flying at him. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by BangrakBob

[Rc2702]

6 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

Yeah I didn't say the system didn't work, I said the system wasn't the only reason, there were other contributing factors. 

 

All I ever here from tabloid noise on twitter is scrutiny of JK, plenty of blame flying at him. 

They did it on a shoestring too. Luck/ other firms had nothing to do with it. Seems to me a few teams are flying the same kind of flag. Leipzig in germany made massive strides and before that TSG hoff. Athletico Madrid are the flagship of over performing. Klopp's in a complete mess and his tabloid "mates" strung him along as they likely had doubts. Sorry bob but even his use of subs is abysmal and having little impact. It's a Bible like approach with absolutely no plan B and those are his mistakes and his alone.

[Sparkles]

3 hours ago, StevieH said:

i think what klopp wants to do is quite clear, and we'd be doing it a whole lot better and more successfully if our owners had signed van dijk and keita in the summer like he asked them to. 

True and any team that wants to win trophies must have a keeper that can be trusted.I dont watch many Liverpool games but Mignolets performance was so erratic and if that was an average performance from him its not wonder they are shipping goals.

 

There's a English  keeper that doesnt get much credit in the media or transfer specualtion but for me Liverpool could have splashed some cash in Tom Heatons direction. 31 years old in his prime and no reason he couldnt be at the top of his game for another 5 years.

 

I've watched his career from the time he was at United as a kid .I think he's be out on loan many times and its maybe time a top side recognised that he is possibly Englands best keeper

 

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, BangrakBob said:

The owners of your football club, deserve discussion, or as you prefer to call it "moaning". As fans we pay our money to support this club, in various means and ways. Without the fans the owners have no business.

The way it is being run, effects how we play on the pitch, and the players that are on that pitch.

I hear you Bob. But the transfer window has been shut for a time now. We have to go with what we have. 

 

I think it will be OK this season. 

[Rc2702]

Bottom line is there is an opportunity here to ditch klopp. Yeah sack him. Bring back benitez and give him 3 years and he will deliver something better. He would also push the board harder and that is something klopp has not done at all wirh any effect. Fact is we have a better manager waiting to step in and if he was brought back I don't think anyone would be complaining. He would sort that defence as it is without needing VVD I'd bet. 

[BangrakBob]

Liverpool were unable to manipulate the transfer market even after Klopp had done the groundwork in persuading players to join. (Paul Joyce) 24/10/17

 

Looks like this statement has come from the club, perhaps at the request of the manager? 

 

Manipulate the market I.e offer magic beans instead of real money 

[StevieH]

5 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

Wholly disagree with that statement on Leicester.  The last 8 games before their PL winning season got them 8 wins. They had a system and it served them very well into the next season. Tottenham were on fire until WH game and could not catch them.

 

What's happening on the pitch is Klopp's job and the defensive aspect of his regime seems to be coming under more and more scrutiny. Seems to me the only person not being blamed is JK and yet his record of goals against at Dortmund was as bad and the two seasons he delivered at BD proper, he had a Polish lad banging them in for fun.

 

it is, but he can't stop £28m centre backs making childlike errors from the touchline. he can try and replace the player, which he wanted to in the summer, and the people above him <deleted> it up. you can't suddenly make idiots grow a brain. or cowards grow testicles. which is what he's being asked to do with mignolet, lovren and moreno. 

 

at dortmund he had hummels, subotic, lewandowski and gundogan, signed for about 16m euros or so the lot. the guys in charge of signing players at liverpool are not up to the job.