Public Encouraged To Reduce Plastic Bag Usage By 1 Bag Per Person Per Day

[kimamey]

Bullxxxx, this is not a sollution to the plastic waste problem in this country.

A complete ban of plastic is the only sollution, and don't come with silly excuses, it IS possible.

Quite a few countries have ruled out a law banning the use of plastic bags.

What's wrong with having a descent shopping bag you can use over and over again?

I guess you mean a complete ban of plastic bags as a complete ban of plastic wouldn't be possible. I don't see a need for a complete ban which just sounds like something you typed in a hurry without any thought but a more sensible use of bags is a god idea. In the UK I normally take reusable bags when I go to the supermarket but sometimes I forget and have to use bags but even then I tend to use them as bin liners.

I agree that there's a massive overuse of plastic bags here. I often refuse them but my Thai wife seems to be just used to getting them. It's a long educational road but if this starts that journey well done.

Just as a thought they could cut down on the number of straws given out. I'm sure I've never seen anyone, Thai or otherwise drinking beer out of a can with a straw but I still have to ask not to have them.

Edited April 25, 2013 by kimamey

[lee b]

Instead of this crap, why do stores not charge 10 baht per bag. Like many places do in the UK, this should encourage people to take along the same bag they used previously. Does this not make sense. ?? And 7/11 could at least make there bags a little stronger, so when full of beer, they dont have to give you 2 bags to carry out your purchace.

[kimamey]

I tried to use my own shopping bag in Tesco, but the girl simply pushed them aside and still filled their own plastic bags.

If we don't get plastic bags from the stores, we will have to BUY plastic bin liners to put in our waste bins in before putting in the condo waste chute. At least most plastic bags in Thailand get used twice even if they still end up polluting the land fill sites.

The thing is a lot of them end up by the side of the road. Unless those are small landfill sites that I see as I drive through the countryside.

[sjjmmi]

I bought a bottle of bleach recently and the 7-11 robot cashier gave me a straw!

+100

[kimamey]

I bought a bottle of bleach recently and the 7-11 robot cashier gave me a straw!

I've just posted about getting straws with cans of beer and you've just topped it. Brilliant.

If you're a farang maybe she was just racist and suggesting you drink it.

Edited April 25, 2013 by kimamey

[puck2]

finally...thisis a good start...but will be a long road...the onnly way to really have this work is to charge for bags....but is a step

This would solve the problem immediately. Charge 20-30 Baht for each bag and it will work very fast. Was the same in Germany, long time ago.

[Lite Beer]

Campaign to reduce plastic bag use launched.
By Digital Media

BANGKOK, April 25 - Thailand's Department of Environmental Quality Promotion (DEQP) is campaigning to convince the public to use fewer plastic bags when shopping at convenience stores, targeting all Thais to use at least one less plastic bag every day.

The department has joined with Green World Foundation and CP All Plc., Operator of 7-Eleven convenience stores in Thailand.

The project, in its second year, is to reduce the amount of garbage and help fight global warming. It is also to encourage the public to reduce and finally stop using plastic bags.

The pilot scheme starts at 7-Eleven convenient stores. Customers buying no more than two items will be invited to not take a plastic bag, while they will be asked when buying any product to depend less on plastic bags every time they make a purchase.

DEQP chief Jatuporn Buruspat said plastic garbage counts for about 20 per cent of all garbage at 16 million tonnes, according to a one year survey.

The survey showed that eight plastic bags on average were used per person per day, he said. If the population in Thailand is estimated at 67 million, it means that about 500 million plastic bags are used every day.

The environmental quality department will continue to support research on products that will not have negative impacts on the environment. It will also support the recycling process of garbage for sustainable use, which will help Thailand deal with the global warming issue. (MCOT online news).

-- TNA 2013-04-25

[Sydebolle]

Apply the Lego principle. Charge for whatever the customer wants. A plastic bag at THB 5, a straw as well as a spoon for the yoghurt another THB 5 each. Guess what? The customers will get VERY smart VERY fast.
In my native Switzerland a "bag fee" was introduced in the late 60s and is still in place. For that reason you see Swiss shoppers with some bag(s) under their arm on the way shopping making the question "where you're heading" obsolete 8-)

[itchybum]

Use only biodegradable bags and chanrge 5 baht for them.

This will have a twofold effect, it will dramatically cut down the use of them and the ones that are still used for essential use and by the ignorant, will be broken down in the environment and gone in a year or however long it takes instead of 400 years,

[Dr Wanchai]

How's a guy supposed to drink his Pepsi / Coke?

Ask your mom.

She'll teach you how to do it correctly.

[hellodolly]

Plastic bags are an issue when littering. I really do not understand why this "war on shopping plastic bags" by some of you which are very useful to me as bin liners.

Sorry guys but where do you all collect your rubbish in your room/house/apartment ? Or am I missing something here ??

Well it did say 8 bags a day per person. You must have a heck of a lot of garbage

[Payboy]

How's a guy supposed to drink his Pepsi / Coke?

Ask your mom.

She'll teach you how to do it correctly.

She's dead, could you lend me yours?

[hellodolly]

No! I think I will behave like the corporations and do whatever fancies me. When they begin to focus on the corporations and dispense with these idiotic mind placebos for the idiotic sheep, then I might consider using a reusable bag. Who makes and distributes the bags anyways? The corporations. At least Makro has something going for it, and it doesn't seem to bother the shoppers to unload their cart's contents item by item directly into their cars or trucks.

Are you talking about the corporations that make reusable bags that do not harm the environment or are you talking about corporations that make plastic disposable bags that harm the environment?

Also if you get a chance stop in at a Macro and watch the people getting boxes to put there things into. While you are there go up to one of those unloading 3,000 baht worth of groceries into there car one item at a time and taking it home where they can unload and carry it into the house one item at a time. That really sucks if they are in a condo up 10 floor.

[hellodolly]

Hail the plastic bag

Back in the 1970's there was a movement started by little old ladies in the UK to collect the aluminum tops of glass milk bottles for recycling. This was quickly embraced as an important solution to the problem of pollution caused by said aluminum milk bottle tops, and particularly school children nationwide would collect these pieces of aluminum foil in large quantities, by the garbage bag full. However any other kind of aluminum, which is used in much larger quantities for other purposes, was ignored.

As some will say, "every little bit helps" but to me it was essentially a load of <deleted> (lots of work for hardly any effect) and this whole debate about plastic shopping bags reminds me of this episode.

It was probably once again started by a little old lady in a village in Hampshire, gazing out of her window across her neatly trimmed lawn, and suddenly she discerned the evil presence of a plastic Tesco bag, being blown across said lawn and scaring the feeding blackbirds! OMG <deleted> (not that she would have used such words).

Not having much to do in the latter years of her life, she quickly enlisted the other retired forces in the village, and a movement was born to reduce and if possible ban the evil plastic bag from all supermarket in the nation and ultimately, the world...

The problem is: what is the problem? Plastic bags are very useful:

• They are made of a small amount of plastic (plastic quantity used for product packaging and every other use in life is much more than that used for small plastic shopping bags; as part of the overall production and use of plastic, shopping bags hardly are a blimp on the radar;
• Shopping bags can and very frequently are re-used as trash bags, so people don't have to go out and buy trash bags (I guess the manufacturers of trash bags are at least partially behind the push for banning plastic shopping bags).
• The so-called eco-bags that people can buy (obviously makes sense to sell bags rather than give them away!) to use instead of the plastic shopping bags provided by supermarkets, are usually made of woven polyester. They take much more energy and raw materials to manufacture. They are only used a few times each, on average. They get dirty, and people throw them out (after keeping them for a while until they get dusty too). People forget them and buy more. They don't make sense, as there is no overall difference/reduction in usage (polyester is a plastic).

The whole debate makes no sense. However plastic shopping bags do. When something "green" comes along, people often jump aboard the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. This issue is not. Some environmentalists have tried to sensationalize things by telling stories of ships full of bags being sent to third world countries for recycling. Really? And if yes, I'm sure they would be put to good use and create jobs

Another point is similar to the "glass half empty" vs the "glass half full" debate. People who claim that we should "reduce" (in other words lower quality of an experience) are non-creative. If something is not the right thing anymore, don't stop using it (that won't work anyway because only a minority will comply) but invent something that is better, to replace it.

That's not polyester bags you purchase and throw away after three times usage rather than one because they're too dirty. It's a whole new solution that is better than a plastic bag. I can't be bothered thinking about one, because plastic bags don't bother me. But to those who take offense at the plastic bag, rather than say "stop using them!", start providing a BETTER and USEFUL replacement for them. Duh!

Until that time, I'm a happy use of as many plastic bags as I get at the supermarket. I re-use them as garbage bags, to carry stuff in until they break, and for storage of items such as clothes etc. It saves me from buying garbage bags and storage bags. The plastic bag is useful. It is a great invention and has very limited environmental impact

How long does it take for these plastic bags to decompose in the garbage dumps where many of the stuff breaks down in less than 100 years some of it with in 6 months. I believe the neighborhood is in the 500 year range for plastic bags.

But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self.

[hellodolly]

Ban the use of Plastic Bags. It has been done else where (but not Thailand).

Well here we are 45 posts and only 2 counting you claiming they are banned in other nations and not even one country named.

I believe in many of the very undeveloped countries they are used very little as the people make and use there own reusable bags for many reasons and may never have seen a plastic disposable bag.

Heck even here in Thailand I an American have a shoulder bag I will often use for small items. I do it quite often and do not throw it away after three uses. I wash it.

[TackyToo]

How's a guy supposed to drink his Pepsi / Coke?

What a question. Very fast from a recycable paper bag!

[daninthai]

This is the stupidest request ever.

Start charging customers per bag and things will change.

[jamhar]

How's a guy supposed to drink his Pepsi / Coke?

Ask your mom.

She'll teach you how to do it correctly.

She's dead, could you lend me yours?

D'oh!!!

Edited April 25, 2013 by jamhar

[aguy30]

It is interesting that 7-11 is now trying to reverse the plastic bag use trend that they help create. They must have a huge expense for them. For many years 7-11 has forced plastic bags on every customer for even the smallest of items purchased. Their employees often seem very confused and give me a strange look like there is something wrong when I tell them I don't want a bag.

People would cut their demand for bags if there was a charge of only 1 or 2 baht per bag.

BTW, wasn't this issue a repeat from about 2 years ago and there has been no improvement since?

How about a new motto and acronym for Thailand? LOT SS DD (lots of talk, same xxxx, different day)

Edited April 25, 2013 by metisdead

[Gassit]

Thais only understand things when it hits them in their wallet. So, to that end, charge the customer 1 or 2 baht for every bag used (small bag = 1 baht, big bag = 2 baht).

Also, some time ago at Terminal 21 I bought 6 pasteries at one of the bake shops in the basement. Yup, you guessed it, each pastry went into it's own little plastic bag to be sealed shut with cello tape, and the lot went into a big plastic bag. So for 6 pastries I walked away with 7 plastic bags and about a meter of cello tape.

Trying to get Thais to cut back on plastic bags is going to be a hard sell, but charging for each bag would go a long way to making it work.

In Canada there is a large chain called superstore. If you want a bag it will cost you 3 cents. I always carried a bag of rolled up used plastic bags to save the plastic bags. As in Canada 3 cents is not a big deal but it was a good way to get people to think conservative,

In Australia too for many years now, charging for plastic bags seems to have reduced consumption significantly. Not sure where the money would end up but maybe 1 Baht per plastic bag would be a good start?

Many posters cite issues with retail staff, but I don't think they are the main problem - it is the owners and managers of the stores who select the most inexperienced workers (= low wage) people and don't train them enough.

[tomross46]

I have been using the same canvas bags for about five years. I got one at Tesco, it cost about 85B, and every time I go to Tesco, I use it. When I go to 7/11 or Tops I have a white canvas bag. If the cashier ask why, I tell her I do not like plastic, "THINK GREEN". One 7/11 I go to frequently, the cashier jumps on me if I do not have my bag.

The only reason I keep plastic bags is when there is another flood and I need something to defecate into.

[DRONGOH]

I bought a bottle of bleach recently and the 7-11 robot cashier gave me a straw!

In a plastic bag?

[canuckamuck]

Just trying to work out how to reduce by one bag.

When I go to the supermarket and I have a cart full of items; do I let the girl put it all in bags and then dump out the last one and hand it back to her? Or should I just do that with the first bag?

Edited April 25, 2013 by canuckamuck

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Hail the plastic bag

Back in the 1970's there was a movement started by little old ladies in the UK to collect the aluminum tops of glass milk bottles for recycling. This was quickly embraced as an important solution to the problem of pollution caused by said aluminum milk bottle tops, and particularly school children nationwide would collect these pieces of aluminum foil in large quantities, by the garbage bag full. However any other kind of aluminum, which is used in much larger quantities for other purposes, was ignored.

As some will say, "every little bit helps" but to me it was essentially a load of <deleted> (lots of work for hardly any effect) and this whole debate about plastic shopping bags reminds me of this episode.

It was probably once again started by a little old lady in a village in Hampshire, gazing out of her window across her neatly trimmed lawn, and suddenly she discerned the evil presence of a plastic Tesco bag, being blown across said lawn and scaring the feeding blackbirds! OMG <deleted> (not that she would have used such words).

Not having much to do in the latter years of her life, she quickly enlisted the other retired forces in the village, and a movement was born to reduce and if possible ban the evil plastic bag from all supermarket in the nation and ultimately, the world...

The problem is: what is the problem? Plastic bags are very useful:

• They are made of a small amount of plastic (plastic quantity used for product packaging and every other use in life is much more than that used for small plastic shopping bags; as part of the overall production and use of plastic, shopping bags hardly are a blimp on the radar;
• Shopping bags can and very frequently are re-used as trash bags, so people don't have to go out and buy trash bags (I guess the manufacturers of trash bags are at least partially behind the push for banning plastic shopping bags).
• The so-called eco-bags that people can buy (obviously makes sense to sell bags rather than give them away!) to use instead of the plastic shopping bags provided by supermarkets, are usually made of woven polyester. They take much more energy and raw materials to manufacture. They are only used a few times each, on average. They get dirty, and people throw them out (after keeping them for a while until they get dusty too). People forget them and buy more. They don't make sense, as there is no overall difference/reduction in usage (polyester is a plastic).

The whole debate makes no sense. However plastic shopping bags do. When something "green" comes along, people often jump aboard the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. This issue is not. Some environmentalists have tried to sensationalize things by telling stories of ships full of bags being sent to third world countries for recycling. Really? And if yes, I'm sure they would be put to good use and create jobs

Another point is similar to the "glass half empty" vs the "glass half full" debate. People who claim that we should "reduce" (in other words lower quality of an experience) are non-creative. If something is not the right thing anymore, don't stop using it (that won't work anyway because only a minority will comply) but invent something that is better, to replace it.

That's not polyester bags you purchase and throw away after three times usage rather than one because they're too dirty. It's a whole new solution that is better than a plastic bag. I can't be bothered thinking about one, because plastic bags don't bother me. But to those who take offense at the plastic bag, rather than say "stop using them!", start providing a BETTER and USEFUL replacement for them. Duh!

Until that time, I'm a happy use of as many plastic bags as I get at the supermarket. I re-use them as garbage bags, to carry stuff in until they break, and for storage of items such as clothes etc. It saves me from buying garbage bags and storage bags. The plastic bag is useful. It is a great invention and has very limited environmental impact

How long does it take for these plastic bags to decompose in the garbage dumps where many of the stuff breaks down in less than 100 years some of it with in 6 months. I believe the neighborhood is in the 500 year range for plastic bags.

But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self.

1. You know what else is in garbage dumps? A lot more scary and poisonous stuff than plastic bags! Plastic is inert. It just sits there. Unless you have a hobby of sitting next to a garbage dump and staring at all the annoying plastic bags in there, I hardly think plastic bags buried in a dump make any difference to anyone at all. Whether they decompose in a year or in 500 years (which I believe is an exaggerated figure but who cares - they are buried in a dump)...

2. The garbage bags in a garbage dump don't inconvenience me, no. They usually don't inconvenience anyone, apart from the guys on the chairs sitting next to the garbage dump and staring at the bags and getting annoyed by them.

3. As I said, when something "green" comes up many people jump on the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. Plastic bags are inert. They don't pollute. It's like glass. It just sits there. So what is the environmental issue, apart from the visual pollution if you dig around in a garbage dump, which few people have as a hobby?

[itchybum]

Hail the plastic bag

Back in the 1970's there was a movement started by little old ladies in the UK to collect the aluminum tops of glass milk bottles for recycling. This was quickly embraced as an important solution to the problem of pollution caused by said aluminum milk bottle tops, and particularly school children nationwide would collect these pieces of aluminum foil in large quantities, by the garbage bag full. However any other kind of aluminum, which is used in much larger quantities for other purposes, was ignored.

As some will say, "every little bit helps" but to me it was essentially a load of <deleted> (lots of work for hardly any effect) and this whole debate about plastic shopping bags reminds me of this episode.

It was probably once again started by a little old lady in a village in Hampshire, gazing out of her window across her neatly trimmed lawn, and suddenly she discerned the evil presence of a plastic Tesco bag, being blown across said lawn and scaring the feeding blackbirds! OMG <deleted> (not that she would have used such words).

Not having much to do in the latter years of her life, she quickly enlisted the other retired forces in the village, and a movement was born to reduce and if possible ban the evil plastic bag from all supermarket in the nation and ultimately, the world...

The problem is: what is the problem? Plastic bags are very useful:

• They are made of a small amount of plastic (plastic quantity used for product packaging and every other use in life is much more than that used for small plastic shopping bags; as part of the overall production and use of plastic, shopping bags hardly are a blimp on the radar;
• Shopping bags can and very frequently are re-used as trash bags, so people don't have to go out and buy trash bags (I guess the manufacturers of trash bags are at least partially behind the push for banning plastic shopping bags).
• The so-called eco-bags that people can buy (obviously makes sense to sell bags rather than give them away!) to use instead of the plastic shopping bags provided by supermarkets, are usually made of woven polyester. They take much more energy and raw materials to manufacture. They are only used a few times each, on average. They get dirty, and people throw them out (after keeping them for a while until they get dusty too). People forget them and buy more. They don't make sense, as there is no overall difference/reduction in usage (polyester is a plastic).

The whole debate makes no sense. However plastic shopping bags do. When something "green" comes along, people often jump aboard the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. This issue is not. Some environmentalists have tried to sensationalize things by telling stories of ships full of bags being sent to third world countries for recycling. Really? And if yes, I'm sure they would be put to good use and create jobs

Another point is similar to the "glass half empty" vs the "glass half full" debate. People who claim that we should "reduce" (in other words lower quality of an experience) are non-creative. If something is not the right thing anymore, don't stop using it (that won't work anyway because only a minority will comply) but invent something that is better, to replace it.

That's not polyester bags you purchase and throw away after three times usage rather than one because they're too dirty. It's a whole new solution that is better than a plastic bag. I can't be bothered thinking about one, because plastic bags don't bother me. But to those who take offense at the plastic bag, rather than say "stop using them!", start providing a BETTER and USEFUL replacement for them. Duh!

Until that time, I'm a happy use of as many plastic bags as I get at the supermarket. I re-use them as garbage bags, to carry stuff in until they break, and for storage of items such as clothes etc. It saves me from buying garbage bags and storage bags. The plastic bag is useful. It is a great invention and has very limited environmental impact

How long does it take for these plastic bags to decompose in the garbage dumps where many of the stuff breaks down in less than 100 years some of it with in 6 months. I believe the neighborhood is in the 500 year range for plastic bags.

But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self.

1. You know what else is in garbage dumps? A lot more scary and poisonous stuff than plastic bags! Plastic is inert. It just sits there. Unless you have a hobby of sitting next to a garbage dump and staring at all the annoying plastic bags in there, I hardly think plastic bags buried in a dump make any difference to anyone at all. Whether they decompose in a year or in 500 years (which I believe is an exaggerated figure but who cares - they are buried in a dump)...

2. The garbage bags in a garbage dump don't inconvenience me, no. They usually don't inconvenience anyone, apart from the guys on the chairs sitting next to the garbage dump and staring at the bags and getting annoyed by them.

3. As I said, when something "green" comes up many people jump on the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. Plastic bags are inert. They don't pollute. It's like glass. It just sits there. So what is the environmental issue, apart from the visual pollution if you dig around in a garbage dump, which few people have as a hobby?

How many accumulative plastice bags will there be there then over that 500 years?

Don't you think that will take some room?

Try not to forget about the percentage that washes into oceans and kills wildlife.

[rheinwiese]

Thais only understand things when it hits them in their wallet. So, to that end, charge the customer 1 or 2 baht for every bag used (small bag = 1 baht, big bag = 2 baht).

Also, some time ago at Terminal 21 I bought 6 pasteries at one of the bake shops in the basement. Yup, you guessed it, each pastry went into it's own little plastic bag to be sealed shut with cello tape, and the lot went into a big plastic bag. So for 6 pastries I walked away with 7 plastic bags and about a meter of cello tape.

Trying to get Thais to cut back on plastic bags is going to be a hard sell, but charging for each bag would go a long way to making it work.

Exactly, spot on. Awareness only goes through the wallet. 1 or 2 Baht might not be enough to make a significant dent.

Make it 5 Baht for the big bag and 2 for the small, and the 500 Million bags per day will be cut at least in half in no time.

[Evolare]

I think the thais will get withdrawal symptoms if only get to use one bag per day...the country will stop working. Imagine all the streetfood vendors what will they do pack the food in banana leafs?

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Hail the plastic bag

Back in the 1970's there was a movement started by little old ladies in the UK to collect the aluminum tops of glass milk bottles for recycling. This was quickly embraced as an important solution to the problem of pollution caused by said aluminum milk bottle tops, and particularly school children nationwide would collect these pieces of aluminum foil in large quantities, by the garbage bag full. However any other kind of aluminum, which is used in much larger quantities for other purposes, was ignored.

As some will say, "every little bit helps" but to me it was essentially a load of <deleted> (lots of work for hardly any effect) and this whole debate about plastic shopping bags reminds me of this episode.

It was probably once again started by a little old lady in a village in Hampshire, gazing out of her window across her neatly trimmed lawn, and suddenly she discerned the evil presence of a plastic Tesco bag, being blown across said lawn and scaring the feeding blackbirds! OMG <deleted> (not that she would have used such words).

Not having much to do in the latter years of her life, she quickly enlisted the other retired forces in the village, and a movement was born to reduce and if possible ban the evil plastic bag from all supermarket in the nation and ultimately, the world...

The problem is: what is the problem? Plastic bags are very useful:

• They are made of a small amount of plastic (plastic quantity used for product packaging and every other use in life is much more than that used for small plastic shopping bags; as part of the overall production and use of plastic, shopping bags hardly are a blimp on the radar;
• Shopping bags can and very frequently are re-used as trash bags, so people don't have to go out and buy trash bags (I guess the manufacturers of trash bags are at least partially behind the push for banning plastic shopping bags).
• The so-called eco-bags that people can buy (obviously makes sense to sell bags rather than give them away!) to use instead of the plastic shopping bags provided by supermarkets, are usually made of woven polyester. They take much more energy and raw materials to manufacture. They are only used a few times each, on average. They get dirty, and people throw them out (after keeping them for a while until they get dusty too). People forget them and buy more. They don't make sense, as there is no overall difference/reduction in usage (polyester is a plastic).

The whole debate makes no sense. However plastic shopping bags do. When something "green" comes along, people often jump aboard the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. This issue is not. Some environmentalists have tried to sensationalize things by telling stories of ships full of bags being sent to third world countries for recycling. Really? And if yes, I'm sure they would be put to good use and create jobs

Another point is similar to the "glass half empty" vs the "glass half full" debate. People who claim that we should "reduce" (in other words lower quality of an experience) are non-creative. If something is not the right thing anymore, don't stop using it (that won't work anyway because only a minority will comply) but invent something that is better, to replace it.

That's not polyester bags you purchase and throw away after three times usage rather than one because they're too dirty. It's a whole new solution that is better than a plastic bag. I can't be bothered thinking about one, because plastic bags don't bother me. But to those who take offense at the plastic bag, rather than say "stop using them!", start providing a BETTER and USEFUL replacement for them. Duh!

Until that time, I'm a happy use of as many plastic bags as I get at the supermarket. I re-use them as garbage bags, to carry stuff in until they break, and for storage of items such as clothes etc. It saves me from buying garbage bags and storage bags. The plastic bag is useful. It is a great invention and has very limited environmental impact

How long does it take for these plastic bags to decompose in the garbage dumps where many of the stuff breaks down in less than 100 years some of it with in 6 months. I believe the neighborhood is in the 500 year range for plastic bags.

But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self.

1. You know what else is in garbage dumps? A lot more scary and poisonous stuff than plastic bags! Plastic is inert. It just sits there. Unless you have a hobby of sitting next to a garbage dump and staring at all the annoying plastic bags in there, I hardly think plastic bags buried in a dump make any difference to anyone at all. Whether they decompose in a year or in 500 years (which I believe is an exaggerated figure but who cares - they are buried in a dump)...

2. The garbage bags in a garbage dump don't inconvenience me, no. They usually don't inconvenience anyone, apart from the guys on the chairs sitting next to the garbage dump and staring at the bags and getting annoyed by them.

3. As I said, when something "green" comes up many people jump on the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. Plastic bags are inert. They don't pollute. It's like glass. It just sits there. So what is the environmental issue, apart from the visual pollution if you dig around in a garbage dump, which few people have as a hobby?

How many accumulative plastice bags will there be there then over that 500 years?

Don't you think that will take some room?

Try not to forget about the percentage that washes into oceans and kills wildlife.

Plastic bags, obviously, are an extremely small part of the garbage dumped by volume. So yes over the course of 500 years let's say as an example a billion tonnes of old plastic bags are dumped. But during the same time frame, each and every year a billion tonnes of other garbage is dumped too. The total volume of garbage bags is negligible compared to the total volume of other waste dumped. Much of which is dangerous and a pollutant.

And as far as "the percentage" that washes into oceans, that's certainly not true. Of course a few bags wash into oceans. But certainly not a percentage (a single percent would require 1 in 100 bags to end up in the ocean - that would be an impossibly high number). Yes the few that end up in the ocean pollute and kill some wildlife.

Other things do too, and much more seriously, like chemical spills, nuclear tests, exploding oil rigs, dirty rivers dumping dirty water into oceans, etc. The question is whether there is any evidence that significant wildlife kills occur due to plastic bags. Of course there will be sensationalized videos available showing the poor seals, birds, and other wildlife getting mercilessly wiped out by a torrent of plastic being cast in their direction.

The reality is, that whilst there's a lot of plastic in the oceans, the far majority of it is from other plastic sources (durable packaging etc. rather than bags). And whilst it is upsetting to see the status quo change, there is still no reason to assume that plastic bags make a SIGNIFICANT impact on the worlds oceans. They don't.

I repeat: plastic bags are no environmental issue of significance. They annoy people, because people need something to annoy them, because life would be too boring without annoyances.

I'm still waiting for someone to provide a valid reason why plastic bags are a serious environmental issue (more serious than the other stuff that ends up in garbage dumps, or on the street, or in the pool, or whatever

[hellodolly]

Hail the plastic bag

Back in the 1970's there was a movement started by little old ladies in the UK to collect the aluminum tops of glass milk bottles for recycling. This was quickly embraced as an important solution to the problem of pollution caused by said aluminum milk bottle tops, and particularly school children nationwide would collect these pieces of aluminum foil in large quantities, by the garbage bag full. However any other kind of aluminum, which is used in much larger quantities for other purposes, was ignored.

As some will say, "every little bit helps" but to me it was essentially a load of <deleted> (lots of work for hardly any effect) and this whole debate about plastic shopping bags reminds me of this episode.

It was probably once again started by a little old lady in a village in Hampshire, gazing out of her window across her neatly trimmed lawn, and suddenly she discerned the evil presence of a plastic Tesco bag, being blown across said lawn and scaring the feeding blackbirds! OMG <deleted> (not that she would have used such words).

Not having much to do in the latter years of her life, she quickly enlisted the other retired forces in the village, and a movement was born to reduce and if possible ban the evil plastic bag from all supermarket in the nation and ultimately, the world...

The problem is: what is the problem? Plastic bags are very useful:

• They are made of a small amount of plastic (plastic quantity used for product packaging and every other use in life is much more than that used for small plastic shopping bags; as part of the overall production and use of plastic, shopping bags hardly are a blimp on the radar;
• Shopping bags can and very frequently are re-used as trash bags, so people don't have to go out and buy trash bags (I guess the manufacturers of trash bags are at least partially behind the push for banning plastic shopping bags).
• The so-called eco-bags that people can buy (obviously makes sense to sell bags rather than give them away!) to use instead of the plastic shopping bags provided by supermarkets, are usually made of woven polyester. They take much more energy and raw materials to manufacture. They are only used a few times each, on average. They get dirty, and people throw them out (after keeping them for a while until they get dusty too). People forget them and buy more. They don't make sense, as there is no overall difference/reduction in usage (polyester is a plastic).

The whole debate makes no sense. However plastic shopping bags do. When something "green" comes along, people often jump aboard the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. This issue is not. Some environmentalists have tried to sensationalize things by telling stories of ships full of bags being sent to third world countries for recycling. Really? And if yes, I'm sure they would be put to good use and create jobs

Another point is similar to the "glass half empty" vs the "glass half full" debate. People who claim that we should "reduce" (in other words lower quality of an experience) are non-creative. If something is not the right thing anymore, don't stop using it (that won't work anyway because only a minority will comply) but invent something that is better, to replace it.

That's not polyester bags you purchase and throw away after three times usage rather than one because they're too dirty. It's a whole new solution that is better than a plastic bag. I can't be bothered thinking about one, because plastic bags don't bother me. But to those who take offense at the plastic bag, rather than say "stop using them!", start providing a BETTER and USEFUL replacement for them. Duh!

Until that time, I'm a happy use of as many plastic bags as I get at the supermarket. I re-use them as garbage bags, to carry stuff in until they break, and for storage of items such as clothes etc. It saves me from buying garbage bags and storage bags. The plastic bag is useful. It is a great invention and has very limited environmental impact

How long does it take for these plastic bags to decompose in the garbage dumps where many of the stuff breaks down in less than 100 years some of it with in 6 months. I believe the neighborhood is in the 500 year range for plastic bags.

But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self.

1. You know what else is in garbage dumps? A lot more scary and poisonous stuff than plastic bags! Plastic is inert. It just sits there. Unless you have a hobby of sitting next to a garbage dump and staring at all the annoying plastic bags in there, I hardly think plastic bags buried in a dump make any difference to anyone at all. Whether they decompose in a year or in 500 years (which I believe is an exaggerated figure but who cares - they are buried in a dump)...

2. The garbage bags in a garbage dump don't inconvenience me, no. They usually don't inconvenience anyone, apart from the guys on the chairs sitting next to the garbage dump and staring at the bags and getting annoyed by them.

3. As I said, when something "green" comes up many people jump on the bandwagon without questioning whether the issue is reasonable. Plastic bags are inert. They don't pollute. It's like glass. It just sits there. So what is the environmental issue, apart from the visual pollution if you dig around in a garbage dump, which few people have as a hobby?

I covered all that in my post. here I will repost it for you

"But yes that is not your problem you are comfortable in any thing that dosen't inconvenience your self."

It is called I am OK screw everybody else. In two words

Self Centered.

Now you explain why it is not OK to try to lesson the environmental impact by just a very very small bit.

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

Thais only understand things when it hits them in their wallet. So, to that end, charge the customer 1 or 2 baht for every bag used (small bag = 1 baht, big bag = 2 baht).

Also, some time ago at Terminal 21 I bought 6 pasteries at one of the bake shops in the basement. Yup, you guessed it, each pastry went into it's own little plastic bag to be sealed shut with cello tape, and the lot went into a big plastic bag. So for 6 pastries I walked away with 7 plastic bags and about a meter of cello tape.

Trying to get Thais to cut back on plastic bags is going to be a hard sell, but charging for each bag would go a long way to making it work.

Exactly, spot on. Awareness only goes through the wallet. 1 or 2 Baht might not be enough to make a significant dent.

Make it 5 Baht for the big bag and 2 for the small, and the 500 Million bags per day will be cut at least in half in no time.

OK. And so there's 500 million bags less distributed out there. And what difference would that make? It might reduce employment at one plastic bag manufacturing plant. These employees could then move over to the other plant that makes garbage bags rather than shopping bags, because that plant's demand would go up as people would now have to buy their garbage bags rather than getting them for free from the supermarket. Or am I missing something?