Oatmeal

[Tolley]

Why don't you pick on something that is substantive in your criticism rather than the cooking instructions ?

You asked for some evidence about regulating blood sugar levels and it is provided here.

It is consistent with many other articles about oats as well.

Come on which bits are 'drivel'?

Here is another article saying the same things.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/feb/20/healthandwellbeing.features11

You paste half a book on here and expect me to critique all the points.

Your original comment was that oats regulate blood sugar.

None of what you posted is evidence, it's just an exaggerated opinion on how good oats are.

If you have insulin resistance, eating bowls of oats will not help you one bit.

If your glucose metabolism is normal, then you can eat them to your heart's content, just as you can get by eating all other carbs.

I eat oats. I like oats, but I certainly don't give them a fraction of the credit your cut 'n pasted encyclopedia of oats gives them.

There's no doubt you'll find plenty of articles saying the same thing, because people will keep copying and pasting what they read in the original article.

I dont think you even read it so I will paste the appropriate bit again.

Diabetics often suffer from related diseases like heart disease and kidney disease. Studies show that oatmeal can help reduce cholesterol This soluble fiber also provides a sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream. Saponin, a hormone-like substance found in oats, helps the pancreas regulate the production of insulin. This is how eating oats helps to normalize blood glucose levels in diabetics and can even reduce the risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

I can also find the same information in many other studies on oats but hey if you dont wanna believe it dont.

I did read that.

Do you believe everything you read?

Look you originally asked about how oats regulate blood sugar and we were not even talking about diabetics anyway at that stage so yeah oats compared to most other grains give a sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream. This is not an opinion this is a fact based on many studies. If i eat oats comapred to eating white bread and I am not diabetic I wont get a spike.

As to individuals who have diabetes or severe diabetes their symptoms may vary but according to a lot of the research diabetics may be able to handle oats.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Tolley

[tropo]

Look you originally asked about how oats regulate blood sugar and we were not even talking about diabetics anyway at that stage so yeah oats compared to most other grains give a sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream. This is not an opinion this is a fact based on many studies. If i eat oats comapred to eating white bread and I am not diabetic I wont get a spike.

As to individuals who have diabetes or severe diabetes their symptoms may vary but according to a lot of the research diabetics may be able to handle oats.

Work it out for yourself. There's a guy posting above who spikes at 180 mg/dl on 60 g oats. That's a small serving.

I think you're confusing the nutritional benefit of oats for regulation of blood sugar. Oats don't regulate anything.

You show me some research where they feed oats to diabetics who are not on medication and they all maintained normal blood sugar levels. I'll bet they'll all spike, some very badly.

Do you test yourself after meals? How do you know if you spike on white bread compared to oats? Because you read this somewhere?

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

[Tolley]

Look you originally asked about how oats regulate blood sugar and we were not even talking about diabetics anyway at that stage so yeah oats compared to most other grains give a sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream. This is not an opinion this is a fact based on many studies. If i eat oats comapred to eating white bread and I am not diabetic I wont get a spike.

As to individuals who have diabetes or severe diabetes their symptoms may vary but according to a lot of the research diabetics may be able to handle oats.

Work it out for yourself. There's a guy posting above who spikes at 180 mg/dl on 60 g oats. That's a small serving.

I think you're confusing the nutritional benefit of oats for regulation of blood sugar. Oats don't regulate anything.

You show me some research where they feed oats to diabetics who are not on medication and they all maintained normal blood sugar levels. I'll bet they'll all spike, some very badly.

Do you test yourself after meals? How do you know if you spike on white bread compared to oats? Because you read this somewhere?

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16054549

From a govt managed study

Glycemic responses of oat bran products in type 2 diabetic patients.

Tapola N, Karvonen H, Niskanen L, Mikola M, Sarkkinen E.

Source

Oy Foodfiles Ltd, Kuopio, Finland. [email protected]

Abstract

BACKGROUND AND AIM:

Cereal products with low postprandial glycemic response are encouraged in the management of hyperglycemia. In this study, we determined the postprandial glycemic response of two different oat bran products in patients with type 2 diabetes. In addition, we investigated the effects of oat bran flour on postprandial glucose response following an oral glucose load.

METHODS AND RESULTS:

A randomized, controlled, repeated measures design with two test series was used. Twelve type 2 diabetic patients participated in five 2-h meal glucose tolerance tests on separate occasions. Volunteers were given in random order oat bran flour, oat bran crisp and glucose load providing 12.5 g glycemic carbohydrate (series 1), 25 g glucose load alone and 25 g glucose load with 30 g oat bran flour (series 2). Finger-prick capillary blood analysis was carried out fasting and then 15, 30, 45, 60, 90 and 120 min after the start of the meal. The oat bran flour had a lower 0-120 min area under the glucose response curve (AUC) (47+/-45 mmol min/L) than the glucose load (118+/-40 mmol min/L) (p<0.002), but there was no difference between the oat bran crisp (93+/-41 mmol min/L) and the glucose load in this respect. The oat bran flour decreased the glucose excursion from baseline by 1.6 mmol/l (2.4, 0.8) (mean (95% CI)) and 1.5 mmol/l (2.0, 1.1) at 30 and 45 min after the glucose load, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:

Oat bran flour high in beta-glucan had a low glycemic response and acted as an active ingredient decreasing postprandial glycemic response of an oral glucose load in subjects with type 2 diabetes.

And here is another one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18095234?dopt=Abstract

CONCLUSIONS:

In this uncontrolled pilot study, hospital admission and diabetes adapted diet followed by oatmeal intervention achieved a approximately 40% reduction of insulin dosage required to achieve controlled glucose levels. This effect was conserved after a 4 week outpatient phase with normal diet.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Tolley

[somtampet]

Google

STAFFORDSHIRE OATCAKES

As a Stokie,this replaces bread and i eat them whenever my thai gf makes them

[partington]

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

Just have to point out that this is not correct at all. All normal people have a blood glucose spike or elevation after they eat. Diabetic people have a higher and longer spike, and their resting glucose is also higher than normal.

Any physiology text book will show this, but here is a graph from an old paper in a American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/12/2568.full.pdf

showing average blood glucose spike in 19 completely normal, non-diabetic volunteers, clinically assessed before the study, after eating rice or potato.

[Kalbo]

Just something I'd like to mention. My boss was diagnosed diabetic this year and had been experimenting (with me looking on) with various foods and how they affect his post prandial BG levels, testing himself with an Accura BG monitor. One day, we tried oats with approximately a 60g helping of dry oats (before adding water etc). For those unaware,this is not a large amount of food by any means. To cut a long story short, his blood sugar levels spiked quite badly to about 180 , and so to paraphrase Tropo, for this individual, oats are nearly as bad as sugar.

Diabetics who are trying to control blood sugar through diet should not eat oats at all but this will depend on the severity of the diabetes.

Some people will tolerate them better than others.

'tis true what they say, 'Hindsight is always 50;50'

[tropo]

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

Just have to point out that this is not correct at all. All normal people have a blood glucose spike or elevation after they eat. Diabetic people have a higher and longer spike, and their resting glucose is also higher than normal.

Any physiology text book will show this, but here is a graph from an old paper in a American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/12/2568.full.pdf

showing average blood glucose spike in 19 completely normal, non-diabetic volunteers, clinically assessed before the study, after eating rice or potato.

You're confusing "spiking" with a normal blood sugar rise/elevation after eating. I wouldn't call 110 - 120 mg/dl "spiking". We are discussing oats here and how they supposedly control blood sugar. Of course there's going to be a blood sugar rise after eating. I'm talking about "spiking" in the context of an unhealthy, abnormal sharp rise in blood sugar.

If you consider 120 mg/dl "spiking" after a meal, then I would have to agree with you. We'll have to define "spike". I would call a "spike" a sudden movement into diabetic numbers, or at least over 140 mg/dl. I don't want to see numbers that high after eating, but I'll be ok with 120 mg/dl.

Sometimes I go for a BG "spike" straight after a hard workout at the gym to stimulate an insulin spike, but that is not what I would recommend for healthy eating. I do that with a specific purpose in mind, but I am not normal. I am prediabetic and have also been well into the diabetic numbers in the past (255 mg/dl FBS).

Edited May 6, 2013 by tropo

[partington]

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

Just have to point out that this is not correct at all. All normal people have a blood glucose spike or elevation after they eat. Diabetic people have a higher and longer spike, and their resting glucose is also higher than normal.

Any physiology text book will show this, but here is a graph from an old paper in a American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/12/2568.full.pdf

showing average blood glucose spike in 19 completely normal, non-diabetic volunteers, clinically assessed before the study, after eating rice or potato.

You're confusing "spiking" with a normal blood sugar rise/elevation after eating. I wouldn't call 110 - 120 mg/dl "spiking". We are discussing oats here and how they supposedly control blood sugar. Of course there's going to be a blood sugar rise after eating. I'm talking about "spiking" in the context of an unhealthy, abnormal sharp rise in blood sugar.

If you consider 120 mg/dl "spiking" after a meal, then I would have to agree with you. We'll have to define "spike". I would call a "spike" a sudden movement into diabetic numbers, or at least over 140 mg/dl. I don't want to see numbers that high after eating, but I'll be ok with 120 mg/dl.

Sometimes I go for a BG "spike" straight after a hard workout at the gym to stimulate an insulin spike, but that is not what I would recommend for healthy eating. I do that with a specific purpose in mind, but I am not normal. I am prediabetic and have also been well into the diabetic numbers in the past (255 mg/dl FBS).

OK, if that's what you mean, fair enough. I just assumed a spike meant a transient rise, and no spike meant flat.

[tropo]

Look you originally asked about how oats regulate blood sugar and we were not even talking about diabetics anyway at that stage so yeah oats compared to most other grains give a sustained release of glucose into the bloodstream. This is not an opinion this is a fact based on many studies. If i eat oats comapred to eating white bread and I am not diabetic I wont get a spike.

As to individuals who have diabetes or severe diabetes their symptoms may vary but according to a lot of the research diabetics may be able to handle oats.

Work it out for yourself. There's a guy posting above who spikes at 180 mg/dl on 60 g oats. That's a small serving.

I think you're confusing the nutritional benefit of oats for regulation of blood sugar. Oats don't regulate anything.

You show me some research where they feed oats to diabetics who are not on medication and they all maintained normal blood sugar levels. I'll bet they'll all spike, some very badly.

Do you test yourself after meals? How do you know if you spike on white bread compared to oats? Because you read this somewhere?

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16054549

From a govt managed study

Glycemic responses of oat bran products in type 2 diabetic patients.

Tapola N, Karvonen H, Niskanen L, Mikola M, Sarkkinen E.

Source

Oy Foodfiles Ltd, Kuopio, Finland. [email protected]

Abstract

BACKGROUND AND AIM:

Cereal products with low postprandial glycemic response are encouraged in the management of hyperglycemia. In this study, we determined the postprandial glycemic response of two different oat bran products in patients with type 2 diabetes. In addition, we investigated the effects of oat bran flour on postprandial glucose response following an oral glucose load.

METHODS AND RESULTS:

A randomized, controlled, repeated measures design with two test series was used. Twelve type 2 diabetic patients participated in five 2-h meal glucose tolerance tests on separate occasions. Volunteers were given in random order oat bran flour, oat bran crisp and glucose load providing 12.5 g glycemic carbohydrate (series 1), 25 g glucose load alone and 25 g glucose load with 30 g oat bran flour (series 2). Finger-prick capillary blood analysis was carried out fasting and then 15, 30, 45, 60, 90 and 120 min after the start of the meal. The oat bran flour had a lower 0-120 min area under the glucose response curve (AUC) (47+/-45 mmol min/L) than the glucose load (118+/-40 mmol min/L) (p<0.002), but there was no difference between the oat bran crisp (93+/-41 mmol min/L) and the glucose load in this respect. The oat bran flour decreased the glucose excursion from baseline by 1.6 mmol/l (2.4, 0.8) (mean (95% CI)) and 1.5 mmol/l (2.0, 1.1) at 30 and 45 min after the glucose load, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:

Oat bran flour high in beta-glucan had a low glycemic response and acted as an active ingredient decreasing postprandial glycemic response of an oral glucose load in subjects with type 2 diabetes.

And here is another one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18095234?dopt=Abstract

CONCLUSIONS:

In this uncontrolled pilot study, hospital admission and diabetes adapted diet followed by oatmeal intervention achieved a approximately 40% reduction of insulin dosage required to achieve controlled glucose levels. This effect was conserved after a 4 week outpatient phase with normal diet.

In the first study they are using oat bran, not the whole cereal. What they doing is adding a lot of fiber with the glucose and it's slowing down it's absorption. The same result could probably be achieved using any cereal bran flour.

The second study is interesting, but they're using type 2 insulin dependant candidates. I'll have to look into that further....

[tropo]

People with perfect insulin metabolism don't ever spike no matter what they eat. Of course you maybe somewhere between perfect and diabetic and spike some - but you'll never know until you test.

Just have to point out that this is not correct at all. All normal people have a blood glucose spike or elevation after they eat. Diabetic people have a higher and longer spike, and their resting glucose is also higher than normal.

Any physiology text book will show this, but here is a graph from an old paper in a American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/12/2568.full.pdf

showing average blood glucose spike in 19 completely normal, non-diabetic volunteers, clinically assessed before the study, after eating rice or potato.

You're confusing "spiking" with a normal blood sugar rise/elevation after eating. I wouldn't call 110 - 120 mg/dl "spiking". We are discussing oats here and how they supposedly control blood sugar. Of course there's going to be a blood sugar rise after eating. I'm talking about "spiking" in the context of an unhealthy, abnormal sharp rise in blood sugar.

If you consider 120 mg/dl "spiking" after a meal, then I would have to agree with you. We'll have to define "spike". I would call a "spike" a sudden movement into diabetic numbers, or at least over 140 mg/dl. I don't want to see numbers that high after eating, but I'll be ok with 120 mg/dl.

Sometimes I go for a BG "spike" straight after a hard workout at the gym to stimulate an insulin spike, but that is not what I would recommend for healthy eating. I do that with a specific purpose in mind, but I am not normal. I am prediabetic and have also been well into the diabetic numbers in the past (255 mg/dl FBS).

OK, if that's what you mean, fair enough. I just assumed a spike meant a transient rise, and no spike meant flat.

Yes. Of course I agree that blood sugar will rise in everyone after a meal.

One person on another thread considered a rise from 110 to 130 as "soaring", whereas I would consider that rise almost insignificant...so it does vary a lot what people mean by various words. To me "soaring" would be a spike into the 200 - 300 mg/dl range.

[chiang mai]

Perhaps this will help, 42 grams of oatmeal (1.5 packs of Quaker Oats), with water:

Fasting/wake up - 104

Oatmeal (above) eaten 45 mins later

postprandial 1 hour - 136

postprandial 2 hour - 102

[tropo]

Perhaps this will help, 42 grams of oatmeal (1.5 packs of Quaker Oats), with water:

Fasting/wake up - 104

Oatmeal (above) eaten 45 mins later

postprandial 1 hour - 136

postprandial 2 hour - 102

I would consider that a pretty high "spike" for such a tiny serve. Anything extra included? Raisins? Fruit? Milk?

What do you think?

[chiang mai]

Perhaps this will help, 42 grams of oatmeal (1.5 packs of Quaker Oats), with water:

Fasting/wake up - 104

Oatmeal (above) eaten 45 mins later

postprandial 1 hour - 136

postprandial 2 hour - 102

I would consider that a pretty high "spike" for such a tiny serve. Anything extra included? Raisins? Fruit? Milk?

What do you think?

Nope, just oats.

For me those numbers are excellent, my endo thinks they are too low and wants me to introduce slightly more carbs into my diet so that they're a bit more normal! (really)

But to be honest those numbers are not that far off the Association of Clinic Diabetes definition of normal:

"In healthy, nondiabetic subjects, 2-h postprandial blood glucose levels are usually <120 and rarely >140 mg/dl. Glucose levels peak at

∼1 h after the start of the meal and then return to preprandial levels within 2–3 h". http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/2/71.full

Edited May 7, 2013 by chiang mai

[tropo]

Perhaps this will help, 42 grams of oatmeal (1.5 packs of Quaker Oats), with water:

Fasting/wake up - 104

Oatmeal (above) eaten 45 mins later

postprandial 1 hour - 136

postprandial 2 hour - 102

I would consider that a pretty high "spike" for such a tiny serve. Anything extra included? Raisins? Fruit? Milk?

What do you think?

Nope, just oats.

For me those numbers are excellent, my endo thinks they are too low and wants me to introduce slightly more carbs into my diet so that they're a bit more normal! (really)

But to be honest those numbers are not that far off the Association of Clinic Diabetes definition of normal:

"In healthy, nondiabetic subjects, 2-h postprandial blood glucose levels are usually <120 and rarely >140 mg/dl. Glucose levels peak at

∼1 h after the start of the meal and then return to preprandial levels within 2–3 h". http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/2/71.full

You have to take into consideration the quantity of carbs you're consuming....42g of Quaker oats is roughly 28g of carbs. That's a tiny serve... so therefore 136 at 1 hour is a substantial hike.

It also goes to show how oats can cause substantial spikes. How would you go with a normal man's serve of at least 80 grams of oats?

Edited May 7, 2013 by tropo

[chiang mai]

Perhaps this will help, 42 grams of oatmeal (1.5 packs of Quaker Oats), with water:

Fasting/wake up - 104

Oatmeal (above) eaten 45 mins later

postprandial 1 hour - 136

postprandial 2 hour - 102

I would consider that a pretty high "spike" for such a tiny serve. Anything extra included? Raisins? Fruit? Milk?

What do you think?

Nope, just oats.

For me those numbers are excellent, my endo thinks they are too low and wants me to introduce slightly more carbs into my diet so that they're a bit more normal! (really)

But to be honest those numbers are not that far off the Association of Clinic Diabetes definition of normal:

"In healthy, nondiabetic subjects, 2-h postprandial blood glucose levels are usually <120 and rarely >140 mg/dl. Glucose levels peak at

∼1 h after the start of the meal and then return to preprandial levels within 2–3 h". http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/2/71.full

You have to take into consideration the quantity of carbs you're consuming....42g of Quaker oats is roughly 28g of carbs. That's a tiny serve... so therefore 136 at 1 hour is a substantial hike.

It also goes to show how oats can cause substantial spikes. How would you go with a normal man's serve of at least 80 grams of oats?

I'd be interested to see the results from others so as to compare.

The spike is one thing although I'm not sure I would classify 136 as a spike (for me), the duration is equally as important, the fact that levels return to 104 (high normal) in under two hours is great news (for me) and if I can manage all my food intake along similar lines I'll be very happy. A spike for me is when I see 170+ and a duration of more than three hours, that's the scary side of this whole business and I've learned what not to eat to avoid such things. Sure 28 grams of carbs is a small amount but for me it's about achieving dietary balance (protein/carbs/fats) plus low levels of risk (aka no reading over 140), if that means several 28gram servings of carbs throughout the day that's OK..

[tropo]

I'd be interested to see the results from others so as to compare.

The spike is one thing although I'm not sure I would classify 136 as a spike (for me), the duration is equally as important, the fact that levels return to 104 (high normal) in under two hours is great news (for me) and if I can manage all my food intake along similar lines I'll be very happy. A spike for me is when I see 170+ and a duration of more than three hours, that's the scary side of this whole business and I've learned what not to eat to avoid such things. Sure 28 grams of carbs is a small amount but for me it's about achieving dietary balance (protein/carbs/fats) plus low levels of risk (aka no reading over 140), if that means several 28gram servings of carbs throughout the day that's OK..

I didn't eat oats today, but when I do I normally use 70 - 80 g (depending how hungry I am), a handful of raisins, a banana and topped with whole milk. This is straight after I've consumed 60 - 70 grams of WPC in a cup of milk with 70g of apple sauce to sweeten - so that's a very high carb load. The last time I tested this meal last month, my 1 hour PP was 111. If my 1 hours result is low I don't bother testing 2 hours (to save on strips).

I decided to check my breakfast today after reading your post.

This is a common pre-workout meal for me:

4 x Sanitarium multi-grain Weetbix (96g total weight)

A large handful of raisins

Half a cup of canned peaches

300 ml whole milk (sometimes I use 0% fat)

65 grams WPC 80%

250ml kefir

2 tbsp organic flaxseed oil

No pre-meal reading, but normally in the low 100's or high 90's. My last lab result on April 24 was 96 mg/dl.

1 hour = 116

2 hour = 90

It is quite common that my 2 hour readings are lower than my FBS. This is probably explained by a pre - waking glucose release from the liver. (dawn phenomenon)

[chiang mai]

I'd be interested to see the results from others so as to compare.

The spike is one thing although I'm not sure I would classify 136 as a spike (for me), the duration is equally as important, the fact that levels return to 104 (high normal) in under two hours is great news (for me) and if I can manage all my food intake along similar lines I'll be very happy. A spike for me is when I see 170+ and a duration of more than three hours, that's the scary side of this whole business and I've learned what not to eat to avoid such things. Sure 28 grams of carbs is a small amount but for me it's about achieving dietary balance (protein/carbs/fats) plus low levels of risk (aka no reading over 140), if that means several 28gram servings of carbs throughout the day that's OK..

I didn't eat oats today, but when I do I normally use 70 - 80 g (depending how hungry I am), a handful of raisins, a banana and topped with whole milk. This is straight after I've consumed 60 - 70 grams of WPC in a cup of milk with 70g of apple sauce to sweeten - so that's a very high carb load. The last time I tested this meal last month, my 1 hour PP was 111. If my 1 hours result is low I don't bother testing 2 hours (to save on strips).

I decided to check my breakfast today after reading your post.

This is a common pre-workout meal for me:

4 x Sanitarium multi-grain Weetbix (96g total weight)

A large handful of raisins

Half a cup of canned peaches

300 ml whole milk (sometimes I use 0% fat)

65 grams WPC 80%

250ml kefir

2 tbsp organic flaxseed oil

No pre-meal reading, but normally in the low 100's or high 90's. My last lab result on April 24 was 96 mg/dl.

1 hour = 116

2 hour = 90

It is quite common that my 2 hour readings are lower than my FBS. This is probably explained by a pre - waking glucose release from the liver. (dawn phenomenon)

Based on those numbers Troppo you are not diabetic so we may be comparing apples and oranges.

Also, you are how old? FBS numbers increase with age, I am 63.

[tropo]

I'd be interested to see the results from others so as to compare.

The spike is one thing although I'm not sure I would classify 136 as a spike (for me), the duration is equally as important, the fact that levels return to 104 (high normal) in under two hours is great news (for me) and if I can manage all my food intake along similar lines I'll be very happy. A spike for me is when I see 170+ and a duration of more than three hours, that's the scary side of this whole business and I've learned what not to eat to avoid such things. Sure 28 grams of carbs is a small amount but for me it's about achieving dietary balance (protein/carbs/fats) plus low levels of risk (aka no reading over 140), if that means several 28gram servings of carbs throughout the day that's OK..

I didn't eat oats today, but when I do I normally use 70 - 80 g (depending how hungry I am), a handful of raisins, a banana and topped with whole milk. This is straight after I've consumed 60 - 70 grams of WPC in a cup of milk with 70g of apple sauce to sweeten - so that's a very high carb load. The last time I tested this meal last month, my 1 hour PP was 111. If my 1 hours result is low I don't bother testing 2 hours (to save on strips).

I decided to check my breakfast today after reading your post.

This is a common pre-workout meal for me:

4 x Sanitarium multi-grain Weetbix (96g total weight)

A large handful of raisins

Half a cup of canned peaches

300 ml whole milk (sometimes I use 0% fat)

65 grams WPC 80%

250ml kefir

2 tbsp organic flaxseed oil

No pre-meal reading, but normally in the low 100's or high 90's. My last lab result on April 24 was 96 mg/dl.

1 hour = 116

2 hour = 90

It is quite common that my 2 hour readings are lower than my FBS. This is probably explained by a pre - waking glucose release from the liver. (dawn phenomenon)

Based on those numbers Troppo you are not diabetic so we may be comparing apples and oranges.

Also, you are how old? FBS numbers increase with age, I am 63.

I'm 53.

Yes, based on the numbers I am not, but I assure you that when I was first diagnosed (actually self-diagnosis) I was 255 mg/dl FBS and started taking diabetic medication. I still have the test results in my draw.

My FBS's float in the 110 - 120 region if I'm not careful with my diet. HbA1c is mid to high 5's if careful, otherwise they float into the 6+ region.

I would certainly say that I'm pre-diabetic if not careful.

I don't know why I'm now able to handle carbs so well. Maybe it's the kefir. Maybe my training. I just can't say. Maybe it's the high WPC I add to the high carb meals. I don't eat high carb meals with low protein.

Edited May 7, 2013 by tropo

[chiang mai]

That's really innteresting, my A1C is running at 5.3/5.5 and my FBS averages 105 (prior to the last 30 days it was averaging 118 but something somehwere changed, goodness only knows what or how. Interesting also that we have such different numbers yet our respective tolerance to carbs is almost opposite, as you say it might be training but could be muscle mass also.

I've recently read about an increasingly popular notion that diabetes can actually be cured if caught early enough and the body retrained, presumably this allows for cell regeneration and will likely work with some and not others. What I've seen in my case over the past 132 days that I've been testing is my 2 hour postprandial fall from 140 (with spikes uo to 180) down to 110 with no spike above 140 (most commonly I will spike to 130 max) - I've also seen my FBS fall as previously stated, a lot of that is diet but as I slowly reintroduce carbs back into my diet I'm convinced much of it is the digestive system that has been retrained.

[tropo]

That's really innteresting, my A1C is running at 5.3/5.5 and my FBS averages 105 (prior to the last 30 days it was averaging 118 but something somehwere changed, goodness only knows what or how. Interesting also that we have such different numbers yet our respective tolerance to carbs is almost opposite, as you say it might be training but could be muscle mass also.

I've recently read about an increasingly popular notion that diabetes can actually be cured if caught early enough and the body retrained, presumably this allows for cell regeneration and will likely work with some and not others. What I've seen in my case over the past 132 days that I've been testing is my 2 hour postprandial fall from 140 (with spikes uo to 180) down to 110 with no spike above 140 (most commonly I will spike to 130 max) - I've also seen my FBS fall as previously stated, a lot of that is diet but as I slowly reintroduce carbs back into my diet I'm convinced much of it is the digestive system that has been retrained.

Chris Kresser talks about this quite a bit on his blog. He explains that people often display a greater intolerance to carbs if they restrict them for a long while and then introduce them again.

I don't know about the "cure" theory. I know that if I get careless with my diet I start deteriorating. To be honest, my current FBS are heading south because I am eating far more carbs than last year. I had a few higher readings above 110 last month. I don't test everyday now. I've always had a tendency to have higher FBS's but good postprandial readings. Perhaps overnight (sleeping) higher readings are pushing up my averages and giving me relatively high HbA1c readings.

There seems to be 2 distinct groups - people with good FBS and lousy PP, and people with lousy FBS and good PP. Apparently the second group have less chance of becoming full blown diabetic. Lousy PP's are more cause for concern than irregular FBS's because they're usually a lot higher and cause more cellular destruction than higher fasting levels.

(I apologize for the waffling, but I'm sure some it will make sense. )

Edited May 7, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

Have been eating oats this week after not eating them for ages and my system really thrives on them. The only problem is that they dont sustain you as long as boiled eggs do. I get hungry much quicker so I will have to try and eat the oats plus a boiled egg for breakfast. You really need a bigger protein hit in the morning. The other issue is that they are bland so it is a bit boring eating them every day.

.

[chiang mai]

I agree that oatmeal can be very boring but there's something very satisfying about eating the stuff, anything as boring as plain oatmeal has to be super healthy so maybe that's why.

[tropo]

Have been eating oats this week after not eating them for ages and my system really thrives on them. The only problem is that they dont sustain you as long as boiled eggs do. I get hungry much quicker so I will have to try and eat the oats plus a boiled egg for breakfast. You really need a bigger protein hit in the morning. The other issue is that they are bland so it is a bit boring eating them every day.

.

They're not bland if eaten with raisins and bananas, topped off with a healthy serve of fresh full cream milk. I would never eats oats without a good dose of protein. I go for at least 60 grams for breakfast.

[Tolley]

Have been eating oats this week after not eating them for ages and my system really thrives on them. The only problem is that they dont sustain you as long as boiled eggs do. I get hungry much quicker so I will have to try and eat the oats plus a boiled egg for breakfast. You really need a bigger protein hit in the morning. The other issue is that they are bland so it is a bit boring eating them every day.

.

They're not bland if eaten with raisins and bananas, topped off with a healthy serve of fresh full cream milk. I would never eats oats without a good dose of protein. I go for at least 60 grams for breakfast.

I will opt for a boiled egg on the side. I put banana and use rice milk and a teaspoon of honey. I slow cooked a big batch of organic rolled oats on Sunday night and microwave them in the morning. If i had enough time i would slow cook them every morning as the oats congeal a bit when you put them in the fridge. There is a huge difference in the texture and flavour of the organic oats compared to the quick oats or microwave variety. I am sure they would not have the same health benefits as the organic variety.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Tolley

[tropo]

Have been eating oats this week after not eating them for ages and my system really thrives on them. The only problem is that they dont sustain you as long as boiled eggs do. I get hungry much quicker so I will have to try and eat the oats plus a boiled egg for breakfast. You really need a bigger protein hit in the morning. The other issue is that they are bland so it is a bit boring eating them every day.

.

They're not bland if eaten with raisins and bananas, topped off with a healthy serve of fresh full cream milk. I would never eats oats without a good dose of protein. I go for at least 60 grams for breakfast.

I will opt for a boiled egg on the side. I put banana and use rice milk and a teaspoon of honey. I slow cooked a big batch of organic rolled oats on Sunday night and microwave them in the morning. If i had enough time i would slow cook them every morning as the oats congeal a bit when you put them in the fridge. There is a huge difference in the texture and flavour of the organic oats compared to the quick oats or microwave variety. I am sure they would not have the same health benefits as the organic variety.

Here's the perfect way to cook (wholegrain) oats. I don't like quick cooking oats. If I could get them I'd only eat steel cut oats.

Add the appropriate volume of water (70g of oats = 320 ml water) and stir while bringing to boil on an induction cooker. This will take about 30 seconds on high setting... then immediately change to the lowest keepwarm setting and put the timer on for 10 minutes and cover with lid. Most decent induction cookers have timers. Once the 10 minutes is up let them sit for 5 minutes. Stirring is not necessary. This method requires no supervision. I developed this system when I was trying to cook steel cut oats but it works great for normal wholegrain rolled oats.

[Tolley]

Have been eating oats this week after not eating them for ages and my system really thrives on them. The only problem is that they dont sustain you as long as boiled eggs do. I get hungry much quicker so I will have to try and eat the oats plus a boiled egg for breakfast. You really need a bigger protein hit in the morning. The other issue is that they are bland so it is a bit boring eating them every day.

.

They're not bland if eaten with raisins and bananas, topped off with a healthy serve of fresh full cream milk. I would never eats oats without a good dose of protein. I go for at least 60 grams for breakfast.

I will opt for a boiled egg on the side. I put banana and use rice milk and a teaspoon of honey. I slow cooked a big batch of organic rolled oats on Sunday night and microwave them in the morning. If i had enough time i would slow cook them every morning as the oats congeal a bit when you put them in the fridge. There is a huge difference in the texture and flavour of the organic oats compared to the quick oats or microwave variety. I am sure they would not have the same health benefits as the organic variety.

Here's the perfect way to cook (wholegrain) oats. I don't like quick cooking oats. If I could get them I'd only eat steel cut oats.

Add the appropriate volume of water (70g of oats = 320 ml water) and stir while bringing to boil on an induction cooker. This will take about 30 seconds on high setting... then immediately change to the lowest keepwarm setting and put the timer on for 10 minutes and cover with lid. Most decent induction cookers have timers. Once the 10 minutes is up let them sit for 5 minutes. Stirring is not necessary. This method requires no supervision. I developed this system when I was trying to cook steel cut oats but it works great for normal wholegrain rolled oats.

I have a gas stove so I get them to the boil and then simmer and stir usually for about 30 mins. I am cooking a big batch so it would be shorter for smaller batches. The texture of the oats is really smooth and almost creamy in taste opposed to quick oats and microwave which taste coarser and lumpier.

[robblok]

I must be lazy.. i take 60 grams of oats 200ml of milk and put them in the microwave 850w 3 min.. stir.. 600w 2 min stir and done.Then I stir and add cinnamon.

[Tolley]

I bought a five grain porridge mix today which includes; rolled oats, rolled barley, rolled rye, rolled triticale, and rolled rice.

Not sure if it is available in Pattaya but I will see how it goes.

Anyone else tried a similar mix?

[tropo]

I bought a five grain porridge mix today which includes; rolled oats, rolled barley, rolled rye, rolled triticale, and rolled rice.

Not sure if it is available in Pattaya but I will see how it goes.

Anyone else tried a similar mix?

They have some grain mixes at Villa Market. I used to by a 7 grain mix produced by Rob's Mill. They have an assortment of different mixed grain porridges, but they don't seem to reorder once the stock is gone.

Edited May 12, 2013 by tropo

[Tolley]

I bought a five grain porridge mix today which includes; rolled oats, rolled barley, rolled rye, rolled triticale, and rolled rice.

Not sure if it is available in Pattaya but I will see how it goes.

Anyone else tried a similar mix?

They have some grain mixes at Villa Market. I used to by a 7 grain mix produced by Rob's Mill. They have an assortment of different mixed grain porridges, but they don't seem to reorder once the stock is gone.

How did you find the mix of grains?