Can This Lady Be Sent Back To Thailand From Uk ?

[asiansun]

a friend of my wifes was telling me yesterday that she recently failed the ( life in uk ) test.....such questions as " who were morcambe and wise " etc etc ...like how to hell is anyone never mind a thai lady meant to know that ? anyway this is a brief outline of her story. she was married in thailand 4 years ago , she since came back to uk with husband, she is working hard, pays taxes , her husband also works, they own house and land, no children, she came under a spouse visa. her PR application was in with ukba and her application was pending even before they brought this test out, she since failed it.

what next for her. can she be kicked out, seperated from her husband ? obviously they will take any decision to eu courts etc and fight it.

thankyou in advance

Edited May 5, 2013 by asiansun

[Stanaris]

I think this post raises a few questions in my mind.

How long ago did she submit her PR application?

Has she passed any of the English Tests?

The LiUK test was introduced in 2007 for settlement (ILR) applications.

The Morecomb & Wise type questions have only just been introduced this year. Anyone who has studied the material would know that.

As far as I am aware if you do not fulfil the English ESOL passes or LiUK test passes then she should be applying for FLR not ILR.

I do not believe there is any chance of FLR refusal

[thaicbr]

morcambe and wise were TV comedians.. there you go easy.

But i see your point... I understand there are bools relevant to this issue. Suggest you google it.

[7by7]

Your OP is confusing.

You say "her PR application" It's ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain), not PR; but that's a very minor point.

You go on "was in with ukba and her application was pending even before they brought this test out, she since failed it."

As Stanaris says, the knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) requirement for ILR has been a requirement for ILR since 2007, and can, at present, be satisfied either by passing the LitUK test or if one's English isn't up to it an ESOL with citizenship course.

The LitUK test is routinely updated from time to time, but if your friend submitted her ILR application before the new one came out then passing the old one, or an ESOL with citizenship course, would have met the requirement.

Are you saying that she submitted her ILR application without satisfying KOL at all?

If so, it will be refused.

Or did she satisfy it by passing the old LitUK test?

If so, nothing to worry about.

Or did she satisfy it by passing an ESOL with citizenship course?

If so, nothing to worry about.

You say the result is pending; is that still the case?

If, for any reason, her ILR application is refused then she will no longer have any permission to remain in the UK and to do nothing means she would be in the UK illegally and liable to removal at any time.

It also means she could no longer work, and any employer who employed her, or her current employer if she remained with them, would be liable to a fine of up to £15,000 (I think) for employing an illegal worker.

If her ILR is refused she could appeal; but if it is refused for not satisfying KOL, something which is a basic requirement and she has had 2 years to get done, then I cannot see how any appeal could stand a chance of success.

I am not sure if, having been refused ILR, she could then make a Further Leave to Remain application or whether she would need to leave the UK, return to Thailand and start the process all over again; under the new rules which came into effect last July.

[Kevin1908]

Your OP is confusing.

It also means she could no longer work, and any employer who employed her, or her current employer if she remained with them, would be liable to a fine of up to £15,000 (I think) for employing an illegal worker.

I thought that it was £10000. Anyway little chance of that happening given the numbers of illegal immigrants working in the UK now and so few employers getting fined.

[7by7]

You're correct, it's up to £10,000.

Illegal workers are found and removed and those who knowingly employ them are fined, here is one recent example.

Every year, we issue fines on hundreds of companies which fail to carry out legally-required checks on their staff.

Of course, the UKBA do have to find these people, both illegal workers and those who employ them. To do so they must obviously rely to a certain extent upon information given to them by members of the public.

If you have any such information, then maybe you should report it.

Anyone with information about immigration offenders can report crime on this website, or contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

Although the last time I suggested that to a poster who complained about illegal workers in the UK he came back to say he wasn't a grass!

Edited May 7, 2013 by 7by7

[krisb]

morcambe and wise were TV comedians.. there you go easy.

But i see your point... I understand there are bools relevant to this issue. Suggest you google it.

Its the last names of the 2 Ronnies..

[Kevin1908]

You're correct, it's up to £10,000.

Illegal workers are found and removed and those who knowingly employ them are fined,

Every year, we issue fines on hundreds of companies which fail to carry out legally-required checks on their staff.

Of course, the UKBA do have to find these people, both illegal workers and those who employ them. To do so they must obviously rely to a certain extent upon information given to them by members of the public.

If you have any such information, then maybe you should report it.

>

Anyone with information about immigration offenders can report crime on this website, or contact Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

Although the last time I suggested that to a poster who complained about illegal workers in the UK he came back to say he wasn't a grass!

Well UKBA could go into just about any catering establisment, hotel, or cleaning firm in London and find some. There are after all over half a million of them. Not too difficult to find. My ex wife eventually gave up working as a chef because she said that the employers could get an illegal chef so much cheaper it just kept pushing her wages down. I would be all in favour of spot checks.

[7by7]

So, did you report the people you suspect of employing illegal workers?

[Kevin1908]

So, did you report the people you suspect of employing illegal workers?

I haven't suspected anybody of working illegally. My ex wife said she gave up working as a chef because her wages were suppressed because the restaurant could always find an illegal worker prepared to work for less. If I had specific allegations I would. A fat lot that would do though. Yesterday I was listening to a radio interview from an employer who having carried out checks found one worker was suspect. Despite many calls to the police, UKBA nobody came to see them.

You should here the whinging and whining from the private landlords at the moment.

[7by7]

That'll be a 'No' then.

[Kevin1908]

That'll be a 'No' then.

And you call me ignorant. Trying reading what I wrote then spend a few nano seconds understanding it before making the ignorant comments.

[7by7]

I did read what you said, which was

My ex wife said she gave up working as a chef because her wages were suppressed because the restaurant could always find an illegal worker prepared to work for less.

(My emphasis)

so either you know of a restaurant which employs illegal workers, or that statement is untrue.

[Kevin1908]

I did read what you said, which was

My ex wife said she gave up working as a chef because her wages were suppressed because the restaurant could always find an illegal worker prepared to work for less.

(My emphasis)

so either you know of a restaurant which employs illegal workers, or that statement is untrue.

So why would I know the name of the restaurant that my ex wife worked at? (My emphasis). Nice to be inferred that I am a liar. Ignorant and a moron.

[7by7]

So you and your ex wife talk enough for her to have told you that she had quit her job "because her wages were suppressed because the restaurant could always find an illegal worker prepared to work for less" but she never mentioned the name of the restaurant?

I get the picture; like, unfortunately, far too many of our fellow countrymen you are happy to complain about illegal workers; but wont get off your backside to do anything about it when you have the opportunity.

BTW, I imply, you infer.

If you have inferred that you are a liar, ignorant and a moron, that is your inference, not my implication.

I've never called you a liar; simply pointed out that two conflicting statements could not both be true.

I've never called you ignorant; I did, once, accuse you of making an ignorant rant. (Look up the meaning of 'ignorant,' definition 2 in particular. The example given there certainly applies to me!)

I've never called you a moron.

Edited May 10, 2013 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

Can we cool it please guys?

[theoldgit]

I've asked you to cool it - last warning.

In the meantime I have deleted one post.

[bobrussell]

Going back to the OP!

FLR is likely to be given but this can end up being a very expensive temporary measure. As stated above the questions set in the exam are based on the study material. If the applicant does not study this it is unlikely that the 'average' Thai (if there is such a person) is unlikely to pass the exam.

[7by7]

Can we cool it please guys?

Apols to all for my part in dragging this off topic; especially Asiansun.

Asiansun, can you comment on my observations in post 4?

Namely:

Are you saying that she submitted her ILR application without satisfying KOL at all?

If so, it will be refused.

Or did she satisfy it by passing the old LitUK test?

If so, nothing to worry about.

Or did she satisfy it by passing an ESOL with citizenship course?

If so, nothing to worry about.

You say the result is pending; is that still the case?

Going back to the OP!

FLR is likely to be given but this can end up being a very expensive temporary measure. As stated above the questions set in the exam are based on the study material. If the applicant does not study this it is unlikely that the 'average' Thai (if there is such a person) is unlikely to pass the exam.

Indeed, even a native born Brit would be struggle to pass the LitUK test if they didn't study for it!

[uptheos]

I bet a lot of people on here would have difficulty answering.

http://www.theuktest.com/life-in-the-uk-test/1

[bobrussell]

I bet a lot of people on here would have difficulty answering.

http://www.theuktest.com/life-in-the-uk-test/1

With suitable preparation most would be OK - that is the point. It tests English knowledge plus English skills. It is not a general knowledge test!

I am sure it would be better to teach applicants more 'life-skills' but the reality is that without passing it as it is, applicants have no choice but to fork out a large sum of money to keep extending FLR. This appears to be the situation faced by the applicant in the OP but without more information there is quite a lot of confusion about the date of application and the consequently the rules that apply to this person.

It is. clearly worth putting a lot of effort into passing this test (flawed or not)to get ILR rather than FLR.

[uptheos]

I bet a lot of people on here would have difficulty answering.

http://www.theuktest.com/life-in-the-uk-test/1

With suitable preparation most would be OK - that is the point. It tests English knowledge plus English skills. It is not a general knowledge test!

I am sure it would be better to teach applicants more 'life-skills' but the reality is that without passing it as it is, applicants have no choice but to fork out a large sum of money to keep extending FLR. This appears to be the situation faced by the applicant in the OP but without more information there is quite a lot of confusion about the date of application and the consequently the rules that apply to this person.

It is. clearly worth putting a lot of effort into passing this test (flawed or not)to get ILR rather than FLR.

You mean most on here?

Just kidding - you make a good point.

Edited May 10, 2013 by uptheos

[7by7]

I bet a lot of people on here would have difficulty answering.

http://www.theuktest.com/life-in-the-uk-test/1

The above website is not official and does not contain any of the official questions.

The only way to see the official question bank is to buy the book.

However, you can see what topics are covered on the official page; What you need to know.

[bkk_mike]

So, did you report the people you suspect of employing illegal workers?

I haven't suspected anybody of working illegally. My ex wife said she gave up working as a chef because her wages were suppressed because the restaurant could always find an illegal worker prepared to work for less. If I had specific allegations I would. A fat lot that would do though. Yesterday I was listening to a radio interview from an employer who having carried out checks found one worker was suspect. Despite many calls to the police, UKBA nobody came to see them.

You should here the whinging and whining from the private landlords at the moment.

The whinging from private landlords is actually understandable...

It's not always easy to check someone's visa status..

i.e. Have you ever looked at an ILE stamp in a passport? They're <deleted> useless. You've got problems boarding planes with them, even though they actually represent ILR (and airline staff see a lot more visa stamps than landlords do.)

The other prime example is - do you have any idea how long immigration take to process visa extensions for students. I know one student who ended without their passport for 13 months between the initial application, which was refused because they'd printed out their bank statements from their online banking rather than ordering statements to be sent from the bank, and the successful appeal (with the bank-provided statements shown to the judge, confirming the printouts had shown the real balances).

Even if a passport is available, there's still issues as lots of people can enter the UK and stay without a visa. Landlords would obviously know about EU passport holders (and possibly EEA), but did you know that Namibia has visa-free entry, which South Africa used to have, but doesn't any more.. (i.e. the rules are odd and they keep changing).

The rules for being in the UK legally are NOT as simple to check as the rules for working in the UK legally. And trying to palm this off onto landlords is a farce. And it's not like Brits have any documentation necessarily that says they're British. Not everyone has a passport or driving licence, and even if they did, the driving licence doesn't prove anything. Are landlords going to have to get tenants to show them their Birth Certificates if they don't have a passport?

Edited May 10, 2013 by bkk_mike

[Arkady]

The Thai equivalent is the interview for PR at Immigration. A friend, whose Thai is minimal after many years in country and who had been assured it was still a simple multiple choice test where they helped with the answers, was ushered into a conference room filled with senior bureaucrats in uniform. I asked what sort of questions did they ask, were they tough. He said he had no idea because he couldn't understand a word. He must have failed the interview but actually got dinged due to an irregularity in his documentation and didn't bother to re-apply. In fact they ask questions that require a fairly decent knowledge of Thai like, "What do you feel is your contribution to Thai society?"

For Thai citizenship there is now a Knowledge of Thai Life in Thailand test that is multiple choice. The questions are not too tricky do require a knowledge of the country's geography, political system ect and some require a knowledge of formal Royal Thai, "Rajasap". Depending on how well the officer likes you, he or she might give you some hints about the answers. Personally I think people wanting Thai citizenship should be able to speak, read and write the language to a reasonable level. How else are they to integrate into Thai society. I think the UK needs such tests too but I am not sure about dotty and out-of-date questions like the two Ernies. Does the UK only want people to integrate at the level of moronic British couch potatoes? What about foreign PhDs who no time for idiotic TV programmes?

Edited May 11, 2013 by Arkady

[marstons]

The Thai equivalent is the interview for PR at Immigration. A friend, whose Thai is minimal after many years in country and who had been assured it was still a simple multiple choice test where they helped with the answers, was ushered into a conference room filled with senior bureaucrats in uniform. I asked what sort of questions did they ask, were they tough. He said he had no idea because he couldn't understand a word. He must have failed the interview but actually got dinged due to an irregularity in his documentation and didn't bother to re-apply. In fact they ask questions that require a fairly decent knowledge of Thai like, "What do you feel is your contribution to Thai society?"

For Thai citizenship there is now a Knowledge of Thai Life in Thailand test that is multiple choice. The questions are not too tricky do require a knowledge of the country's geography, political system ect and some require a knowledge of formal Royal Thai, "Rajasap". Depending on how well the officer likes you, he or she might give you some hints about the answers. Personally I think people wanting Thai citizenship should be able to speak, read and write the language to a reasonable level. How else are they to integrate into Thai society. I think the UK needs such tests too but I am not sure about dotty and out-of-date questions like the two Ernies. Does the UK only want people to integrate at the level of moronic British couch potatoes? What about foreign PhDs who no time for idiotic TV programmes?

out of interest what has this to do with the OPs question? She is having a problem with a UK test not Thai. Good guess at the answer, of course you could not be an idiotic British moron who replies to a post about staying in UK with a post about gaining Thai citizenship. As an add on the lady would have had to get more answers wrong than the one mentioned. The information is on hand before the test, had it been read and revision done would have been answered correctly and the test passed.

[7by7]

did you know that Namibia has visa-free entry,

Only for visits of up to 6 months; as do some other non EEA countries; e.g. Australia.

A non EEA national who does not need a visa for visits does need a visa if they want to come to the UK for any other purpose.

I suppose some visitors to the UK may want to rent accommodation from a private landlord rather than stay with friends, family or in a hotel; but I doubt that it's many.

How will landlords be supposed to check? Well, probably the same way that employers are supposed to already.

As most reputable landlords let their properties through a letting agent, then I'm sure the agent would be more than capable of carrying out the necessary checks; just as employers are now.

Non of which is relevant to the OP.

[sjohnson1234]

I suppose some visitors to the UK may want to rent accommodation from a private landlord rather than stay with friends, family or in a hotel; but I doubt that it's many.

.

You might want to include the Gulf citizens in that mix. There are literally 100s of 1000s who make the UK there home for 3,4, or even 5 months duringt the summer.

Interestingly Milton Keynes is a favourite spot, as is Crew and of course london

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

So, did you report the people you suspect of employing illegal workers?

You are right to remind us of our duty as citizens. People always complain about the government but fail in their own duty as citizens. I believe it to be the duty of every citizen and feel no guilt whatsoever, in reporting anyone whom I discover to be working illegally, employing workers illegally,evading tax or fraudulently claiming benefits. I sense the world is changing in its attitude to such matters. In the past it was seen to be really cool and clever to evade tax or claim something you were not entitled to but people in increasing numbers are awakening to the reality that those of us who pay tax, pay more because of tax and benefit cheats and those who can't get a job would have better opportunities if it wasn't for the employment of illegal workers on the cheap!

[wooloomooloo]

...such questions as " who were morcambe and wise " etc etc ...like how to hell is anyone never mind a thai lady meant to know that ?

Study will overcome the obstacle which is the point of the exam, asiansun.

Don't get wrapped up in politics, it will get your friend nowhere.

...she is working hard, pays taxes , her husband also works, they own house and land...

Great - exactly the calibre of immigrant this county needs.

what next for her. can she be kicked out, separated from her husband ?

She only needs to pass LitUK or an ESOL with citizenship course before October or apply for FLR.

...obviously they will take any decision to eu courts etc and fight it.

I bid them good luck wasting their lives on pointless litigation. Studying LitUK or passing a short course would be more beneficial to their sanity and bank balance.