Erawan Shrine Destroyed

[Prakanong2005]

""We're worried the destruction of Phra Pom will affect our business," said vendor Wandee. "There are more than 50 families that make their living off selling items of worship to people who come here.""

Yeah - really revered!

A sick man has been killed when he needed treatment

The shrine is only material - it can be rebuilt

[jdinasia]

a person can be suffering from major depressive illness AND be having a manic episode at the same time or even a psychotic break. No big deal in the diagnosis ... sadly he never got the help he needed even with a loving family.

[Greer]

It seems that the concensus of opinion is that it is both a terrible waste of human life, and a tragedy for Thailand.

A young man died - a great loss that can never be replaced.

A priceless religious artefact was destroyed - another loss that can never be replaced.

Both can never be reinstated - the one, of course, because it is a human life and the other because it was an image that embodied one of the most powerful and important Gods of Hinduism - an image that has seen thousands of worshippers and tourists alike.

This is an awful tragedy, but I can see why it happened.

I am absolutely certain that as the man who did it was Thai, he would know the rage with which such destruction would be met - and mentally ill or not, he must have gone with "malice aforethought" to have taken a hammer...not the sort of thing one finds lying around the streets - even in Bangkok.

I have been to the Erewan Shrine many times and prayed with my family - it is a place with a very special "feeling". I am not religious, but I cannot deny that it does have a powerful effect on the lives of those who believe.

I hope that whatever the young man's god - he can now find peace.

[jdinasia]

It seems that the concensus of opinion is that it is both a terrible waste of human life, and a tragedy for Thailand.

A young man died - a great loss that can never be replaced.

A priceless religious artefact was destroyed - another loss that can never be replaced.

Both can never be reinstated - the one, of course, because it is a human life and the other because it was an image that embodied one of the most powerful and important Gods of Hinduism - an image that has seen thousands of worshippers and tourists alike.

This is an awful tragedy, but I can see why it happened.

I am absolutely certain that as the man who did it was Thai, he would know the rage with which such destruction would be met - and mentally ill or not, he must have gone with "malice aforethought" to have taken a hammer...not the sort of thing one finds lying around the streets - even in Bangkok.

I have been to the Erewan Shrine many times and prayed with my family - it is a place with a very special "feeling". I am not religious, but I cannot deny that it does have a powerful effect on the lives of those who believe.

I hope that whatever the young man's god - he can now find peace.

We'll never know if he were Insane ... or just ill. Insane is defined by the inability to differentiate right from wrong in this case for all we know he was just angry and wanted attention ... OR ... the shrine was speaking to him etc etc etc.

Sad Sad day

[sriracha john]

Depression is not a mental illness that makes you totally crazy....

I would strongly encourage you to research the subject more thoroughly then...

I think you may be confusing depression with mania. Someone who's clinically depressed very often can't even raise the energy to get out of bed let alone indulge in any physical activity.

Let me help you and others out here with some understanding of the disease:

Psychotic Depression

Roughly 25 percent of people who are admitted to the hospital for depression suffer from psychotic depression. Psychotic depression is characterized by not only depressive symptoms, but also by hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that aren't really there) or delusions (irrational thoughts and fears). Often psychotically depressed people become paranoid or come to believe that their thoughts are not their own (thought insertion) or that others can ‘hear’ their thoughts (thought broadcasting).

Agitated Depression

This term is applied to depressive disorders in which agitation is prominent. The patient is restless, paces up and down, occupies him- or herself with purposeless activities, or starts tasks which are soon abandoned.

Agitation occurs in many severe depressive disorders, but in agitated depression it is particularly severe. There is no reason to suppose that agitated depression differs in other important respects from other depressive disorders.

In its more milder forms, depression sufferers are indeed often quite lethargic. Also, the depression in this man could have been part of a cyclic Bipolar Disorder with his rampage being a manifestation of the manic phase, but not necessarily. Depression, on its own, can sometimes result in extremely violent behavior.

[sriracha john]

BRAHMA STATUE

Replacement will be made of metal

New design will be ready in two months, will feature pieces from original

A decision has yet to be made about the material to be used to build a new Brahma statue - to replace the old one destroyed early yesterday morning by a mentally-ill man.

Plaster will keep its essence, but nine types of metal mixed with some surviving pieces of the old statue will ensure its durability. Those fragments include the face, head and weapons, said Preecha Gungeeya, director-general of the Religious Affairs Department.

The new Brahma statue for the Erawan shrine will be completed and replaced within two months. The shrine will be open for the public to pay their respects from today with four photographs of the statue facing out from the shrine.

Srislang Sooksomstarn, the Maha Phrom Foundation's managing director, said it was likely metal would be used for the new statue.

While the original design of the statue would be followed, its foundation and the surrounding fence would be raised to protect it from possible attack. Moreover, the four sides of the statue would be shielded by glass; the old version was an open shrine surrounded by a low metal fence.

"The fragments will form part of the new statue because we want to keep its soul intact," Preecha said.

Srislang was certain the new statue would attract a crowd, despite the different materials.

The damaged statue was yesterday embraced by the Royal Brahmin. When the new one is finished a ceremony will be conducted again to "bring it home".

Surakiart Sathirathai, acting deputy prime minister and culture minister, said the damage affected people badly, so the statue needed to be replaced as soon as possible. Once the renovation was complete, he said the ministry would celebrate with a suitable ceremony.

Meanwhile, Sathienpong Wannapok, an expert on Buddhism, said: "What's happening is crazy", because the shrine was only a result of current culture and social practice.

"If you are a Brahma, you don't need to pay homage to the Brahmin statue," he suggested. He referred to the Pramwiharn 4 (unbounded states of mind) practice of goodwill, compassion, sympathetic joy and neutrality. He also said people in the city lacked neutrality.

Believing more in Buddhist teaching than being attached to a man-made image, Sathienpong said such a shrine was only for people with vulnerable minds. "It's only a symbol. It's like a toddler who needs something to depend on while taking its first steps."

The shrine was attacked yesterday morning by a man who was later beaten to death.

The Nation

[TopChinese]

"If you are a Brahma, you don't need to pay homage to the Brahmin statue," he suggested. He referred to the Pramwiharn 4 (unbounded states of mind) practice of goodwill, compassion, sympathetic joy and neutrality. He also said people in the city lacked neutrality.

Believing more in Buddhist teaching than being attached to a man-made image, Sathienpong said such a shrine was only for people with vulnerable minds. "It's only a symbol. It's like a toddler who needs something to depend on while taking its first steps."

The shrine was attacked yesterday morning by a man who was later beaten to death.

The Nation

Good point. For what it was worth, only the shell of the spirits were destroyed in the attack. The otherworldy and possibly divine will always remain and persist.

I for one am usually quite secular and skeptical about all things spiritual. But for some reason, I still feel honour-bound by obligations or something deeper, to return to this sacred shrine. Since our visit there 5 years ago, my mom has since remained cancer-free. She has also taken it upon herself to live those virtues enshrined by the image, which made her more at peace with herself. For that, I'm thankful.

Not sure what makes this place so special but I will stop by when I'm in town for Songkran if it will give my mom comfort to know that I made an offering on her behalf.

It will be odd watching those dancers perform for 4 photos tho...

[phibunmike]

I'm one of those many chinese who flock to the Erawan everytime Im in Bangkok. Something with "returning the favour" to the image after asking for help at a very difficult time with my mother's health. It is tragic to read about the destruction and the ensuring incident.

The image is well renowed in Singapore, Hong Kong and the other chinese countries for being very efficacious. It is a stop for many tour groups originating from chinese speaking countries so much so that the vendors can immediately identify who we are and tout their goods in perfect mandarin.

What are the effects of a broken image? As the image is supposed to embodied the nats of the erawan property, one should be cautious about angry spirts.

TopChinese, I am curious to know how you would feel about a replacement statue. Does it matter if the statue is new ? In other words, is it the statue itself, or after the new one is created and the ceremony has taken place, will the replacement be just as good ? How about the temporary solution of photographs - does this have value for you to pray at ? I suppose my question is, is the essence of the place the statue, or the spirits contained therein - and if the spirits, can one assume they will remain and inhabit the replacement ?

Edited March 22, 2006 by phibunmike

[Jai Dee]

DPM Surakiart has been assigned to oversee the renovation work of the Brahman shrine.

Prime Minister Thaskin Shinawatra has assigned Deputy Prime Minister and Acting Culture Minister Surakiart Sathirathai (สุรเกียรติ์ เสถียรไทย) to take care of the renovation work at the Brahman shrine in front of the Erawan Hotel, which was destroyed yesterday.

Dr. Surakiart said that he has coordinated with the Department of Provincial Administration, which oversees the Brahman religious places, the Department of Fine Arts, and the President of the Maha Brahman Foundation Professor Dr. Paijit Rojanawanich (ไพจิต โรจนวานิช), to set a meeting of related officials on reconstruction work. He said that the Department of Fine Arts will invite Brahm (พราหมณ์) and Kuru (ราชครู) to assemble the remaining parts such as the head, which was left intact, as well as the weapons. He said that if the statue is rebuilt, the remaining parts will be put inside the new statue. He expected that the reconstruction work will finish within two months. However, he said that currently, white cloth has been placed around the statue and will allow the people to pay respect to the statue today.

Dr. Surakiart added that neighbouring countries have telephoned him, inquiring about the conditions of the statue, after the news has been made public, as the revered Brahman statue is well respected by people in Malaysia, Singapore, Japan, and Hong Kong.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 March 2006

[Indo-Siam]

Well, in my opinion, the jury is still out on this incident.

But - I don't share the views of all the sympathetic types - those whose primary reaction is to be sad that a mentally-ill person got killed. My primary reaction is: thank god this nut only damaged a statue, instead of attacking a live person - and thank god he got whacked before he did attack and hurt a live person.

I offer the following continuum of possibilities:

1. Mentally ill Muslin man defeats security fence to go in and destroy a revered religious shrine for several other religions - for which he has no respect.

2. Mentally ill Muslin man attacks and kills one monk and one securty guard, then defeats security fence to go in and destroy a revered religious shrine for several other religions - for which he has no respect.

3. Mentally ill Muslin man straps explosives to himself and goes and blows up 100 worshippers and performers at noontime, also destroying the shrine, at a revered religious shrine for several other religions - for which he has no respect.

4. Mentally ill Muslin man detonates a nuclear weapon, destroying Bangkok.

Please go down this list and tell me how far you go before you stop worrying about the poor mentally ill Muslim man, and start worrying about the non-defective common folks who DON'T go out violently attacking anything.

Next - tell me that the Muslim men in the three troubled proivinces down south who systematically carry out Item #2 above EVERY DAY can be anything BUT mentally ill.

Then - tell me how the Muslims who blow up nightclubbs, seize embassies, behead Indonsesian Christian schoolgirls, blow up Jordanian weddings, burn NORWEGIAN Embassies because DENMARK pissed them off - tell me how they can be anything BUT mentally ill.

With VIOLENT, VIRULENT, EPIDEMIC mental illness - outright terrorist INSANITY rampant throughout a significant and growing slice of the planet's population - how much slack and sympathy are you going to extend to violent deviants?

Sad as it is that the shrine was desecrated, the good news is that the violent perpetrator will not be attacking anyone or anything else.

There is a good essay - about the human equivalents to sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves - at :

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

It is worth reading.

The now-deceased Muslim perpeptrator was a wolf - albeit possibly a rabid (clinically defective) wolf. The general population in the vicinity - along with most of the commentors on this thread - were sheep: "baaaaa ... on my gosh .... a violent, scary, aggrssive wolf ... baaaaa... lets pull back in horror....baaaaaa". The two - or however many - streetsweepers - had in their personal characters the qualities of sheepdogs - defending the sheep, and attacking a wolf. I respect them. And - they took down that rabid wolf.

The nice white-bread world that many of us grew up in is being replaced by a global "law of the jungle" world. This week's incident in Bangkok was a minor story - and only a bad guy got whacked. Friends and neighbors - I'm afraid that this week's incident will soon look like "the good old days" - and it will be "good guys" getting whacked by violently insane Muslim pepetrators.

'Better to get more folks working in sheepdog mode.

I didn't ask to live on a global battlefield - I just have to play the cards I'm dealt.

Indo-Siam

RLTW

Edited March 22, 2006 by Indo-Siam

[sriracha john]

In case you're not aware of this, mental illness is not limited by religious affliation... nor is being beaten to death an appropriate treatment.

[TopChinese]

Lol.. sorry to miss your post, Philbun. This is a unusual case because it involves a conflux of Buddhist, Hindu and animist principles. The Chinese may have differing views on this matter from the thais but thanks for giving me an excuse to examine my spiritual heritage.

My mom, being a lot more well versed in these things, agrees with what the Brahmin expert says about the statue being just a symbol. After the opening ceremony of the Erawan, it was initially decided that the image of the 4 face Brahma was more appropriate to host the spirits of the Erawan site. In the time since, the shrine has since gained lot of goodwill because of its efficacy as it is believed that the spirits as embodied in the image will grow in strength along with time and offerings made. This is why old images (such as the Emerald Buddha) are well-revered and sometimes you see offerings made to very old banyan trees in an effort to appease the powerful tree spirits embodied inside.

The destruction of the image should not diminish the potency of the spirits but would understandably make them more pissed. At the re-consecration ceremony, the spirits will be invited to reinhabit the new image but it is believed that it will take some time for the spirit to "settle in". Until then, the spirits are expected to be restless and may cause havoc (or they already have?)

The photos will have to do but they are regarded to be temporary measures. The Chinese has traditionally made offerings to our ancestors and deities as embodied in portraits and stone tablets in lieu of statues. Not sure how the Thais feel about this but I have seen offerings made to photos of revered monks.

Edited March 22, 2006 by TopChinese

[The Coder]

...its foundation and the surrounding fence would be raised to protect it from possible attack. Moreover, the four sides of the statue would be shielded by glass

What a sad decision. That ruins it, at least for me. Are there going to be metal detectors at the entrance too?

[Indo-Siam]

You know, Sriraja John, I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist - perhaps you are - and I never met the perpetrator - maybe you did.

But - what I have read is that his family said that he was mentally ill - with depression. As far as I know, clinical depression is not typically associated with maniacal violent attacks.

What I believe intensely is that Islamic extemism is VERY DEFINITELY closely associated with violent maniacal attacks.

So - as far as I am concerned - the attack Monday night possibly had little to do with that portion of the individual that was influenced by clinical depression - and was instead carried by that part of the individual who ws influenced by Islamic extremism.

I will concur that bludgeoning is not a good teatment for clinical depression. It seems to me to be excellent treatment for radical Islamic violence.

Muslims make up 6% of Thailand's population. That means there are 15.5 times more non-Mulsim Thais. I can't tell for sure, but - for the sake of argument - let's will assume that the distribution of metal illness is roughly equal for both populations.

If that is the case - and if the attack on Erewan was not based on religious hatred - then there should be a roughly equivalent record of attacks on religious shrines by mentally ill Thai Buddhists - and there should be an equal record of attacks by both mentally ill populations upon Muslim places of worship.

So - show me the evidence of such "randon" attacks by the MUCH larger alternate population.

'Can't do it, can you? It really wasn't a "random" attack, was it?

Liberal sheep - in denial - will do ANYTHING but call a threatening spade a spade. Quoting from another essay at http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000108.html:

It would be nice to live in a world full of liberals. I say that as a staunch conservative. It would be nice to live in a world that behaved like a Hollywood party or a university campus, filled with kind, educated people with lots to lose, who cherish art and culture and are incapable of brutal, violent acts. If all the world were filled with decent, compassionate, rational people, life would be a bouquet.

But it's not. There are bad people who do bad things, and there are bad countries run by bad people who do bad things, who eat the kind and gentle people for breakfast. There is no denying this. Therefore, liberals are insane. I speak from experience here.

It was a good thing that the perpetrator was removed from the general population of peaceful citizens - and from the gene pool. If he had just drawn insulting cartoons of the shrine, I would not support treating him badly. I do have a sense of proportional justice. I just don't have a high threshhold of tolerance for violent Muslim manicas - and I don't feel the non-Muslim world can afford the luxury of sorting out the "simply evil Muslim criminal extremists" from the "mentally disturbed Muslim criminal extremists" - particularly when they are running toward you with a hammer, after just destroying your most scared religious shrine.

If he had run toward a Thai police officer who witnessed the attack - and was still wild-eyed and brandishing the hammer - I'll bet he would have been dropped in his tracks in two seconds. And that is the defense that the spontaneous guardians of the shrine should use - along with saying that the spirit of the shrine possed them temporarily to take action to protect the nearby people from that maniac.

Depressed people commit suicide (or make attempts), or quit their jobs, or do a lot of things - but they don't tend to go out and violently attack the world. So -I'm not very inclined to give the dead perp the benefit of the doubt.

Indo-Siam

Edited March 22, 2006 by Indo-Siam

[Plus]

Can you save as from anti-liberals crusade in this thread? It's not even confirmed the man was a muslim.

[sriracha john]

But - what I have read is that his family said that he was mentally ill - with depression. As far as I know, clinical depression is not typically associated with maniacal violent attacks.

Post #65 might provide some much needed background for you then. I would encourage to look up more information if need be on the subject matter.

I will concur that bludgeoning is not a good teatment for clinical depression. It seems to me to be excellent treatment for radical Islamic violence.

Muslims make up 6% of Thailand's population. That means there are 15.5 times more non-Mulsim Thais. I can't tell for sure, but - for the sake of argument - let's will assume that the distribution of metal illness is roughly equal for both populations.

If that is the case - and if the attack on Erewan was not based on religious hatred - then there should be a roughly equivalent record of attacks on religious shrines by mentally ill Thai Buddhists - and there should be an equal record of attacks by both mentally ill populations upon Muslim places of worship.

So - show me the evidence of such "randon" attacks by the MUCH larger alternate population.

'Can't do it, can you?

That's because by its very nature, mental illness is not logical, so no logical comparisons can be made on what acts are committed by the mentally ill within two religious groups. If you looking for news reports of deranged acts of mentally ill Buddhists, it's as close as your Google search button.

It was a good thing that the perpetrator was removed from the general population of peaceful citizens - and from the gene pool.

The same ideals were put forth in the 1930's mental institutions who thought it best to involuntarily sterilize their male and female patients. Hopefully, by 2006, we've progressed past that type of medieval thinking.

Depressed people commit suicide (or make attempts), or quit their jobs, or do a lot of things - but they don't tend to go out and violently attack the world. So -I'm not very inclined to give the dead perp the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, I can only hope that Post #65 might provide a springboard to further educating yourself into this extremely complex disease.

[Indo-Siam]

SJ - I just read Post #65. I see absolutely nothing there that makes it even 0.00001% more likely that the extraordinarily violent conduct by the perpetrator (against a sacred religious shrine of two religions that are deemed "infidel" religion by his own religion) was caused by clinical depression, than by a hatred of non-Mulsims.

I also cannot state that there is MORE likelihood that the attack was a Muslim fanatic attack.

There is simply no way to tell. In your little soft, mushy, fuzzy world, you see just a poor unfortunate mental case. I think it just as likely (but NOT more likely) that the perpetrator was a dangerous, violent religious fanatic.

What I can say is that - looking around Thailand, and around the world, I see a LOT more examples - THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE EXAMPLES - of maniacal Muslim extremists attacking people and symbols of other religions and cultures - than I see examples of mentally ill persons RANDOMLY attacking specifically symbols of other religions and cultures - or violently attacking anything else.

Now - if you consider direct obedience - in 2006 - without any tolerance of exceptions whatsoever - to the fundamental text of the medieval Islamic Koran - to the exact and extreme letter of what is witten - to represent serious and dangerous mental illnress - then I will agree with you. But it is mass mental illness - that is systematically slaughtering healthy people daily all over the world. And - it is beyond fuzzy-wuzzy treatment.

Let's see what the Thai investigators come up with concerning the perpetrotor's underlying motivations.

It sounded like a "random" attack to you - and to a bunch of other she-e-e-ee-p on this thread. I'm a sheepdog, and I saw it differently. The truth may lie somewhere in between. You would err on the side of protecting the perp. I would err on the side of protecting the general populace.

In the actual event, some people on the scene acted as you would have. Others acted as I might have. The latter actions were decisive.

Every morning I wake up wondering what new atrocity is going to be revealed to me as I scan the news - courtesy of the Muslim fanatics of the world. There is NEVER a break in the pattern of atrocious violence by these maniacs.

IS

Edited March 22, 2006 by Indo-Siam

[Plus]

Where exactly did you get the idea the man was a muslim? I missed it, I think it was a suggestion in one of the posts here rather than in any official news.

[sriracha john]

SJ - I just read Post #65. I see absolutely nothing there that makes it even 0.00001% more likely that the extraordinarily violent conduct by the perpetrator (against a sacred religious shrine of two religions that are deemed "infidel" religion by his own religion) was caused by clinical depression, than by a hatred of non-Mulsims.

That because the intent of Post #65 was not to disprove it was due to his "hatred of non-Muslims." The intent of Post #65 was to correct the erroneous belief among many people that depressed people are incapable of violence. I was just hoping to educate people that's not always the case. I was referencing it to your post because you had made similar mistaken statements as others had.

I also cannot state that there is MORE likelihood that the attack was a Muslim fanatic attack.

There is simply no way to tell. In your little soft, mushy, fuzzy world, you see just a poor unfortunate mental case. I think it just as likely (but NOT more likely) that the perpetrator was a dangerous, violent religious fanatic.

What I can say is that - looking around Thailand, and around the world, I see a LOT more examples - THOUSANDS OF TIMES MORE EXAMPLES - of maniacal Muslim extremists attacking people and symbols of other religions and cultures - than I see examples of mentally ill persons RANDOMLY attacking specifically symbols of other religions and cultures - or violently attacking anything else.

Don't confuse the mentally ill with the zealously religous. They aren't the same thing. You were correct earlier in estimating that mental illness occurs roughly in equal proportions among all religions.

Now - if you consider direct obedience - in 2006 - without any tolerance of exceptions whatsoever - to the fundamental text of the medieval Islamic Koran - to the exact and extreme letter of what is witten - to represent serious and dangerous mental illnress - then I will agree with you. But it is mass mental illness - that is systematically slaughtering healthy people daily all over the world. And - it is beyond fuzzy-wuzzy treatment.

Which is why mental illness and religious fanaticism are not the same thing. But Islam is not a mass mental illness, no religion is.

Let's see what the Thai investigators come up with concerning the perpetrotor's underlying motivations.

That investigation into his motivations will likely be hampered by his death.

It sounded like a "random" attack to you - and to a bunch of other she-e-e-ee-p on this thread. I'm a sheepdog, and I saw it differently. The truth may lie somewhere in between. You would err on the side of protecting the perp. I would err on the side of protecting the general populace.

In the actual event, some people on the scene acted as you would have. Others acted as I might have. The latter actions were decisive.

Frankly, admitting that you would willingly club someone to death with a metal bar that hadn't physically threatened you or harmed anyone is rather disturbing and really very surprising.

Every morning I wake up wondering what new atrocity is going to be revealed to me as I scan the news - courtesy of the Muslim fanatics of the world. There is NEVER a break in the pattern of atrocious violence by these maniacs.

I'm sorry you feel this way. It sounds like so much anguish. I hope you can someday find peace.

I prefer to wake up in the morning, have a coffee, relax and tend to my garden. Such is life "in my little soft, mushy, fuzzy world."

Edited March 22, 2006 by sriracha john

[Jai Dee]

Where exactly did you get the idea the man was a muslim? I missed it, I think it was a suggestion in one of the posts here rather than in any official news.

Read the earlier posts in this thread.

Several news sources quoted described him as a Muslim.

[frodo]

This whole affair as many of you have mentioned, is indeed a sad one all the way around. From the actual destruction of the sacred statue, the loss of a man's life, and those whose livlihood depended on it.

Sriracha John is correct in his post (#65). Depression does have many aspects to it. When most people think of a depressive state, they think that a person has the typical sypmtoms...sad, lonely, maybe a feeling of suicide. In a nutshell, that can be a classic symptom, however, there are many aspects of so-called depression. Depression is classified as a mood disorder (DSM-IV). Associated with this are major depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder, bipolar disorder, cyclothymic disorder, mood disorder due to a general medical condition, and substance-induced mood disorder.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders- Fourth Edition (DSM-IV) gives specifiers to indicate the levels of severity and types of mood/depressive disorders. Specifiers associated with the mood disorders are listed below:

From the DSM-IV

Mild: A few symptoms, if any, are present beyond what is needed to make a diagnosis, and a person can function normally although with extra effort.

Moderate: The severity of symptoms is between mild and severe. For a manic episode, a person's activity is increased or judgment is impaired.

Severe Without Psychotic Features: Most symptoms are present and a person clearly has little or no ability to function. For a manic or mixed episode, a person needs to be supervised to protect him/her from harm to self or others.

Severe With Psychotic Features: A person experiences hallucinations or delusions. Psychoses may develop in about 15% of those with major depressive disorder. The presence of delusions and hallucinations often interfere with a person's ability to make sound judgments about consequences of their actions and this may put them at risk for harming themselves. Psychotic symptoms are serious and a person in this condition needs immediate medical attention and possibly hospitalization.

Single Episode/Recurrent: A first episode is considered "single," subsequent episodes are "recurrent."

In Partial/Full Remission: There is full remission when there is an absence of symptoms for at least two months. For partial remission, full criteria for a major depressive episode are no longer met, or there are no substantial symptoms but two months have not yet passed.

Chronic: For at least two years a person's symptoms have met criteria for a major depressive episode.

Catatonic Features: Unusual behaviors or movements such as immobility, excessive activity that is purposeless, rigid or peculiar posturing, mimicking others' words or behaviors.

Melancholic Features: A loss of pleasure in most activities or an inability to feel better, even for a short time when something pleasurable happens. Also, at least three of following is present: the depressed mood is distinct (i.e., unlike feelings of bereavement), it is worse in the morning, a person wakes too early in the morning, there is distinct agitation or movements are slowed down, substantial weight loss, or extreme feelings of guilt. Melancholic features are associated with a person experiencing a specific precursor to the illness and having a better response to antidepressants. Men and women may equally have these features, although they are more common in older people. They may also be more likely to occur in more severe depressive episodes, particularly ones with psychotic features.

Atypical Features: During the last two weeks of major depression or bipolar disorder (depressive episode) or the last two years of dysthymia, a person is able to experience brightened mood when good things happen. Also, at least two of the following must be present: substantial gain in weight or appetite, sleeping too much (at nighttime or daytime napping that is at least 10 hours total or two hours beyond normal), body feels heavy or weighted down, or persistent sensitivity to rejection by others that is related to personal or social difficulties. The sensitivity to rejection tends to be a more long-standing problem. The presence of depression may increase the sensitivity, although it is often still present when the person is not depressed. Atypical features occur two to three times more often in women. They are also associated with depression beginning at an earlier age (e.g., teens) and possibly more chronic depressive episodes. Personality and anxiety disorders may also be more common.

Postpartum Onset: The depressive episode begins within four weeks of giving birth.

With/Without Full Interepisode Recovery: Describes a long-term course of recurrent major depression or bipolar disorder. The specifiers indicate whether a person recovered from his/her symptoms between the two latest episodes.

Seasonal Pattern: Describes a pattern of depressive episodes in recurrent major depression or bipolar disorder. The symptoms tend to begin (usually fall or winter) and end (usually spring) at particular times of the year.

Rapid-Cycling: Describes a recurrent pattern of depressive and manic episodes in bipolar disorder. A person has had at least four mood episodes during the last 12 months. There is either a general absence of symptoms between episodes or a clear switch from one to its opposite, such as from depression to mania. Rapid-cycling may affect5% to 15% of those with bipolar disorder, and women account for 70%-90% of those with this pattern. Certain medical conditions may be related to rapid-cycling such as neurological problems, hypothyroidism, head injury, and mental retardation, as well as treatment with antidepressants. Those who develop a pattern of rapid-cycling may have a less favorable prognosis.

I make no judegement about the quality of mental health care available in LOS. If the young man had in fact had a depressive episode that were severe with psychotic features, he should have been hospitalized and getting treatment. Would have, should have, and could have are meaningless right now. I truly don't believe that religion had anythng to do with this at all. Depression does not discriminate against race, color, origin, sex, or ethnicity. It happens.

[Plus]

I've searched the thread and found only one post, #686025, that quoted and article from Bangkok Post that mentioned "Muslim man", it's dated yesterday, 21 March, and was most likely in breaking news category so is not available for viewing anymore. The current article in their general news omits any references to the man's religion.

Other posters mentioned seeing it on BBC but no one provided any links or copy-pasted the actual story.

[StateSix]

The OP quoted the dead mans father who said he was suffering from depression. The front page of the Bangkok Post today quotes the father as saying that his son had been in and out of hospital suffering from mental disorders since he was about 21. It also said his mental condition was attributed to stress. Mental disorders could describe a whole host of conditions including schizophrenia, which could certainly lead someone to commit such an attack.

If it was related to a mental condition the sad thing about this incident is that the man did not receive suitable treatment, which may have prevented him acting in such a manner.

I honestly cannot believe that this was purely racially motivated, as Indo-Siam suggests. It was too blatant, open and amatuerish in my opinion. Mental imbalance, particluarly something along the lines of schizophrenia, seems to be the more likely explanation. If it was racially motivated he would have known the potential danger he was in. If it was a 'suicide mission' why not walk in there during the day and detonate some home made bomb? It just doesnt add up.

Either way, killing him is wrong in any civilised society. That is why the law is there, to judge whether a crime has been comitted and whether the alleged suspect is culpable for it.

Arent you a lawyer Indo-Siam? If so, I thought you would agree with that?

Indo-Siam, why do you consistently focus on the Muslim aspect. Why do all your points paint Muslims in such a negative light? It gives me the impression that your arguments are more based on your own any-Muslim, racist agenda. What if the guy had been Christian or Jewish? Would you still be making the same points?

You say you have no sympathy for the murdered man because he could potentially have killed a large number of people. He didnt. He damaged property at the end of the day. I appreciate that it is highly revered and all that, but no-one was killed and so the response was not proprtional. To follow your argument that it was good that he got 'whacked' before he killed anyone, what about a drunk driver? If I come across a drunk driver who had crashed into a lampost, am I justified in beating him to death because, after all, this person too could have killed some poor innocent person?

Having concern for this individual does not mean I am a sheep, or that you are a sheepdog (grr very butch and manly ). It means I have some compassion for my fellow man. As sriracha john says I would rather live in my "little, soft, mushy, fuzzy, world" than your world, where everyone, especially those horrible, muslims, are out to get me.

[kyselak]

Police say attacker of Hindu shrine was Muslim, probing

religious motive

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) _ Police identified a 27-year-old

man who destroyed a world-famous Hindu statue at a Bangkok

shrine as a Muslim and said Wednesday they were

investigating whether he had ties to extremism. The man,

said to have a history of mental illness, was beaten to

death by enraged onlookers Tuesday after breaking into the

Erawan Shrine and shattering a golden four-headed statue of

Brahma with a hammer. When the body of the man, Thanakorn

Pakdeepol, was autopsied, doctors found Arabic characters

tattooed on his back and arms, said police Col. Suphisal

Pakdinarunaj. The discovery prompted police to inquire

about his religion and launch an investigation into whether

the attack had a religious motive.

220255 mar 06GMT

[jdinasia]

It would be irresponsable for the police NOT to investigate ... but face it ... nuts is nuts.

[girlx]

there really wasn't enough info in the article to determine whether this was a religious fanaticism- based crime or a mental illness- based crime. however, the end results are pretty cut and dried. there is a major religious icon that has been desecrated, rightfully pissing off the worshipers of the icon (and their associated capitalistic vultures). and there is a man who was murdered violently. sorry, but that is like apples and oranges. the punishment did not fit the crime and senseless violence should not be brushed aside in a society where there seems to be more and more of it every day. mental illness is serious (yes depression leads to lots of violence in society- someone i am personally acquainted with is on death row for a mass murder and his diagnosis was severe depression before that incident took place). there needs to be more of a focus on finding and treating it in society to prevent crimes. but perhaps the people who beat this man to death were suffering from depression too eh? it is sort of irrelevant really. a huge percentage of people are mentally ill and untreated and not very many of them commit violent crimes. to me the bottom line here is that yes the man deserved punishment for trashing the shrine, but it should not have been meted out by anyone other than the judicial system, and it should not have been in the form of a death sentence.

[Bangkok Barry]

Not sure if this should be posted here or on the Buddhism forum, but I'm sure the powers that be will move it if I'm in the wrong place.

I'm more than a little surprised that no-one has commented on the killing of the mentally-ill man that destroyed the shrine at Erawan corner. A mob (the two arrested men say they were not the only ones involved) kill someone in the centre of a supposedly civilised city, and it just appears to be accepted as normal.

I remember a year or two ago another mob killed someone at Mor Chit when the police were re-enacting an alleged rape, while the police just looked on. No matter that the case hadn't yet been to court and the man's guilt proven.

Must have been nice for guests at the Hyatt to be returning to their hotel after being thrown out of the nearby bars at 1am closing time to find someone being beaten to death right outside the entrance. So much for the Land Of Smiles.

And how does killing someone for damaging a statue (albeit a highly revered one) equate with the teachings of Buddhism? I'm no expert on the subject, but isn't all life supposed to be sacred under Buddhism. Or is that only when it suits them.

[britmaveric]

It's common I'm afraid - I've seen people kick the sh*te out of a farang that disrespected one of the shrines. Mess w/Buddah or the Royals and the full wrath of Thai(s) will come upon you.

[britainmal]

That is crazy to say that beating somebody to death was just a reaction. Were the Muslims who burned things down and did other violent stuff justified over the Danish Cartoons affair. This is another bad thing for Thailand. The guy was wrong for what he did, but he did not deserve that. He needed help the poor guy.

[Heng]

And how does killing someone for damaging a statue (albeit a highly revered one) equate with the teachings of Buddhism? I'm no expert on the subject, but isn't all life supposed to be sacred under Buddhism. Or is that only when it suits them.

How does Buddhism compare to say Islam or Christianity in terms of spilling blood in the name of religion, both of which have plenty of 'brotherly love and peace + harmony' in their texts? I think in the big picture, Buddhism is still doing "okay" in terms of those numbers.