Erawan Shrine Destroyed

[TanjaB]

As someone who is not in the slightest religious, I am deeply shocked by the whole thing. Shocked that someone gets killed in the centre of Bangkok, 10 minutes down the road from where I live, by a mob(?) of people who are so absorbed by their faith and believes that they don't think twice before ending the life of a fellow human being. Shocked that what in my opinion is cold blooded murder seems to be seen as an acceptable punishment by many people, as it was done in the name of religion. I know people get killed every day all over the world, many for much lesser 'reasons', but I still find it very scary. I know what a big part religion plays in the everyday life of Thai people, and I thouroughly enjoy visiting their sacred sites, for the CALM and TRANQUILITY I find there. I would never dream of disrespecting, let alone damaging, anything they worship - be it related to buddhism or royalty. But to think that a man, whether or not mentally disturbed, gets killed for an act of vandalism ( even vandalism of the worst kind) is deeply saddening. Maybe for those people who killed him religion is the only source of hope and stability in their lives- when someone attacked this they just lost it. Or maybe it's just a convinient excuse for an act of extreme violence. Either way, tension and anger built up over a long period of time was released and khun Thanakorn Pakdeepol paid the ultimate price. In the most violent, painful way.

Edited March 27, 2006 by TanjaB

[girlx]

hmm what hypocrisy to kill in the name of your religious beliefs (considering one of the major precepts is not to take life). a huge reason why i am agnostic. such a person's passion and faith are ultimately groundless it would seem.

[jdinasia]

Was he in fact killed in an act of religious "revenge" for lack of another word? Probably.

Could it have been other reasons? Sure ...

however ... if the attack did happen in the form of religious retribution by garbagemen and wasn't pre-meditated then spiritually it is no more vile than drinking or having sex with someone that's not your spouse etc

and sorry I completely missed why someone else's actions would have anything to do with agnosticism

[opothai]

i am not condoning the killing this chap by the mob,

but as most of you will realise the thais are very proud of thier religion and country,

if this man started to destroy an artifact in europe or the usa he would get away with his life in tact. i would hazard aguess that not all the people would try to stop him and indeed most would walk on by and maybe call the police.

but this is thailand and the people do things a bit differently here.

sad case, but if this happened again i doubt thier would be much difference in the outcome.

[sonnyJ]

As someone who is not in the slightest religious, I am deeply shocked by the whole thing. Shocked that someone gets killed in the centre of Bangkok, 10 minutes down the road from where I live, by a mob(?) of people who are so absorbed by their faith and believes that they don't think twice before ending the life of a fellow human being. Shocked that what in my opinion is cold blooded murder seems to be seen as an acceptable punishment by many people, as it was done in the name of religion. I know people get killed every day all over the world, many for much lesser 'reasons', but I still find it very scary. I know what a big part religion plays in the everyday life of Thai people, and I thouroughly enjoy visiting their sacred sites, for the CALM and TRANQUILITY I find there. I would never dream of disrespecting, let alone damaging, anything they worship - be it related to buddhism or royalty. But to think that a man, whether or not mentally disturbed, gets killed for an act of vandalism ( even vandalism of the worst kind) is deeply saddening. Maybe for those people who killed him religion is the only source of hope and stability in their lives- when someone attacked this they just lost it. Or maybe it's just a convinient excuse for an act of extreme violence. Either way, tension and anger built up over a long period of time was released and khun Thanakorn Pakdeepol paid the ultimate price. In the most violent, painful way.

TanjaB, I agree with your post, except your conclusion.

Well yes, the killers, they just lost it, but it's seen as a normal behaviour in Thai culture. Monarchy and the religion are seen as the holy cow. Referring to these and some other points we could say Thailand is still a very undeveloped society. In a few words, Thailand is still in the Middle Ages in many ways. Erawan shrine was and still is very important place of worship in Bangkok. This could be compared to attacks on the World Trade towers in USA. Or some old cathedral in Europe.

Violence is not the answer in any of these cases. It will be counterproductive.

Man's death is a tragedy, I hope the killers will get a punishement by the law.

I didn't have time to read all the pages, but there seems to be very few real news articles about this. Still very little information of the facts, motives, etc. It's useless to speculate. But if the guy for example was wearing some traditional muslim garp and a beard he was a potential target in the first place.

Hope we will hear more news soon.

[chuang]

Try smashing or write some slogons on the walls of a mosque in an islamic country....

[ColPyat]

But if the guy for example was wearing some traditional muslim garp and a beard he was a potential target in the first place.

Hope we will hear more news soon.

Why is that?

So far i have not yet heard of any spontaneous anti Muslim violence here in Bangkok, on the opposite i see Muslims going about their business completely undisturbed. I have even seen Thai Muslims attending rallies of both camps.

I fail to see how a Muslim in traditional dress could be "a potential target in the first place" here in Bangkok. There just is no precedent.

[rainman]

Try smashing or write some slogons on the walls of a mosque in an islamic country....

i'd like to see the reactions to that...

[sonnyJ]

But if the guy for example was wearing some traditional muslim garp and a beard he was a potential target in the first place.

Hope we will hear more news soon.

Why is that?

So far i have not yet heard of any spontaneous anti Muslim violence here in Bangkok, on the opposite i see Muslims going about their business completely undisturbed. I have even seen Thai Muslims attending rallies of both camps.

I fail to see how a Muslim in traditional dress could be "a potential target in the first place" here in Bangkok. There just is no precedent.

Maybe my expression was a bit strong. Apologizes.

I have heard of the attitudes. Alone, that late at night... Besides Bangkokians living under the stress of current political events. All this might have played a big influence to the outcome. Just think about it OK. As I said I'd like to hear more facts about this.

So I take it, there's been no following news about this yet? Hope this one doesn't turn out to be one of those forgotten cases.. As somebody said, it is disturbing to hear a man was beaten to death on the street in the very center of Bangkok.

[ColPyat]

As somebody said, it is disturbing to hear a man was beaten to death on the street in the very center of Bangkok.

It is disturbing.

But unfortunately this sort of violence has been in the recent years been increasing tremendously in Bangkok. Most cases never make it into the news, especially not the English speaking news. Large parts of Bangkok's outskirts have by now been descending into an urban nightmare ruled by the everpresent gangs.

Expect a lot more of that sort in the future.

[zzap]

Can you name some of these outskirts?

This is news to me, though I am not surprised.

[ColPyat]

Can you name some of these outskirts?

This is news to me, though I am not surprised.

Many people don't know that as in the English language press nothing of that is reported. Many areas in Rangsit, very bad the Rama 2 area, and Samut Prakan (which i am most familiar with).

The present demonstrations don't exactly help the situation either as police officers from many districts are on demonstration duty. The other night, when i came home, close to my home several hundred motorcycle racers were going nuts completely undisturbed by the police. Usually at that road there are only several dozen racers that are quickly chased away by the cops when they are too much of a nuisance.

[Tolley]

I can't believe some posters trying to defend murder.

A crime was committed by a hapless individual who wantonly desecrated a religious symbol but this in no way justifies the murder of said individual.

I have heard similar arguments here where farangs have gotten into altercations with Thais and have been subsequently bashed or murdered.

There is no justification for such action and two wrongs don't make a right.

Having said that I am not surprised that this happened as Thailand is a violent and dangerous place where the rule of law and due process are not regularly observed.

Indeed the government itself was involved in the extra judicial killing of some "2000 drug suspects" not that long ago. Life is much cheaper in Thailand than most of the western countries we come from. It still doesn't justify the killing of this guy but in the grander scheme of things that are Thai it is hardly surprising.

[sonnyJ]

I've got a few pics of the scene including the body.

Not sure is it OK to publish them here?

AddMin???

[sonnyJ]

I've got a few pics of the scene including the body.

Not sure is it OK to publish them here?

AddMin???

So I post, delete if nescessary...

<snip>

Edited March 30, 2006 by Jai Dee

[sonnyJ]

Just wondering if the blood on the right sleeve is from cuts there or from the wounds on the back of the head, trying to shield himself. Haven't heard about any blades involved, latter assumption is propably more accurate. Smoking Wonder green, bottle of medicine?, and whats those bags with green incredients on the lower belly??

The stickers on the chest, looks like medics tried to get his heart running, or...? I didn't know it's possible in this state anymore?

Edited March 29, 2006 by sonnyJ

[britmaveric]

Did a number on the shrine. Sad. Prob bashed his head (on pavement) in - least that is what I surmise.

[zzap]

Noone would have hit the guy. I think you're right, Brit - fell down the stairs or something...

[zzap]

Are you one of the three stooges, Brit?

The opther two have been waiting for you!

Edited March 29, 2006 by zzap

[sriracha john]

I'm sorry, but is it possible to save the autopsy ruminations for the ogrish dot com forums?

Again sorry, but the photo belongs there as well...

Edited March 29, 2006 by sriracha john

[jdinasia]

h,,, a bit of facts or speculation from the first page in the press SRJ

Pol Maj Gen Krissasda Phankhongchuen, deputy metropolitan police commissioner, said the man, who suffered severe injuries on his head, was barely alive when police arrived at the scene, which was on the opposite side of road from the Police Hospital.

He said police later arrested two garbage collectors and found an iron bar which one of them used to beat the man.

[marshbags]

I'm sorry, but is it possible to save the autopsy ruminations for the ogrish dot com forums?

Again sorry, but the photo belongs there as well...

Well said sriracha and spot on.

The poster shows he is more than a bit sick in the head for not only sending the photo of the poor demised but also adding a commentary on it.

I think T.Visa are worth more that being put at gutter level by your stupidity.

You must be aware of the offensive nature of your actions as you suggest that they be deleted if need be.

What,s the point sonny.

The Thai news media are famous for this insensitive behaviour and o.k. we have to put up with it.

T.Visa is not at gutter level like this and you are taking us all in to disrepute through your actions.

Personally i was shocked that the photo in question along with your pathetic observations have escaped the moderators, possibly due to the timing.

Again you are putting our ethics and standards at your level, which is in the gutter.

This is my humble opinion only and i hope you will ask the moderators for censorship of your post and offer your sincere apologies to T.Visa.

marshbags

Edited March 30, 2006 by marshbags

[jdinasia]

didn't bother me! ... nor does the Thai TV news or Press bother me.

Death in all it's aspects is a normal part of Buddhist meditation ... though I also think that here in Thailand there's a lot of "###### sure glad it wasn't me!" which is common in the west ... watch the rubberneckers at a car-wreck if you doubt it.

[Plus]

People here apply their western concepts of law and justice on Thailand. Why?

What about "Thailand is in the midlde ages" comments? In many ways it is, but if you imply that Thais should pay less attention to their religion and their King - they might prefer to stay "neolithic".

Let's see how this case legally unfolds. So far there's no cause to complain - guys were arrested and will be charged and tried, according to Thai laws, however mideval they may be.

[sonnyJ]

I'm sorry, but is it possible to save the autopsy ruminations for the ogrish dot com forums?

Again sorry, but the photo belongs there as well...

Well said sriracha and spot on.

The poster shows he is more than a bit sick in the head for not only sending the photo of the poor demised but also adding a commentary on it.

I think T.Visa are worth more that being put at gutter level by your stupidity.

You must be aware of the offensive nature of your actions as you suggest that they be deleted if need be.

What,s the point sonny.

The Thai news media are famous for this insensitive behaviour and o.k. we have to put up with it.

T.Visa is not at gutter level like this and you are taking us all in to disrepute through your actions.

Personally i was shocked that the photo in question along with your pathetic observations have escaped the moderators, possibly due to the timing.

Again you are putting our ethics and standards at your level, which is in the gutter.

This is my humble opinion only and i hope you will ask the moderators for censorship of your post and offer your sincere apologies to T.Visa.

marshbags

Well the point is that these pictures are directly related to the topic we are discussing here. The small part of the news that can only be a fact.

I'm sorry if these pictures offend someone. I don't see any reason though nor any ethical problems. What is wrong with posting the truth? In anycase there is no point for personal attacks here marshbags. I'm sure administration will solve the problem easily if there is one. Whom I also tried to inquire about the standards, but still have no responce. I figured this is TV in Thailand, so let's go along the thai press guidelines.

Also I personally prefer the Thai media way of publishing news over the western "hide all bad - let's watch war in our livingroom" media style coverage.

[sriracha john]

IMHO, it is disrespectful to the dead to show their photos on TV, particularly if they were murdered in a gruesome way.

When asking permission to post photos, or anything else for that matter, of admin/mods, it's best to wait UNTIL one receives a positive response, BEFORE proceeding.

Alternatively, posting a link, with an appropriately responsible warning, to the photos without posting the photos themselves, has been an acceptable protocol in the past.

*edit*

Thank you Jai Dee for removing the photo.

Edited March 30, 2006 by sriracha john

[ColPyat]

didn't bother me! ... nor does the Thai TV news or Press bother me.

Death in all it's aspects is a normal part of Buddhist meditation ... though I also think that here in Thailand there's a lot of "###### sure glad it wasn't me!" which is common in the west ... watch the rubberneckers at a car-wreck if you doubt it.

Finally a point we can agree upon.

Death is treated far more open in Thailand than nowadays in the west. Temples exhibit corpses of learned monks, mummified baby corpses are wroshipped as "Guman Thong", monks meditate on and in front of decomposing corpses, and the pictorial description of death is very common.

I have even seen relatives of the deceased taking photos of the corpse on many occasions.

One may be personally "offended" by such photos, but this is superimposing modern western PC sensitivities on Thai culture and tradition.

In the past the west had no such sensitivities either, if one thinks about exibition of relics in churches, monastries and private collections.

[Jai Dee]

The photograph has been removed.

ThaiVisa has a wide readership, and some are minors.

We do not want to run the risk of offending or upsetting anybody with such graphic images.

If you do have images like these, as SJ says, posting a link (with an appropriately responsible warning) to the photos without posting the photos themselves, is an acceptable protocol in the Forum.

Thanks for your understanding.

[sonnyJ]

Case closed. I respect the ruling.

May I suggest a spesific line to be added to forum rules prohibiting posting images of death, or such. Since I wasn't able to find one. That would prevent it happening later.

I am a bit disappointed though. My point to read news is to learn about the world, not to escape from it. In this case posting a link was not an option since the pictures are not from the WWW.

[Jai Dee]

In this case posting a link was not an option since the pictures are not from the WWW.

You could always upload your photograph to an image hosting site like ImageShack or Photobucket and post the link (and warning) here.