Why Is It So Damned Hard To Get Staff?

[lemoncake]

I know a Thai buddy of mine who speaks fair English, has good people skills, and a has a good appearance. He is 41 and when I tell him to go out and apply for some of these jobs he says he can never get a job since he did not graduate from highschool, is from Isaan (doesn't look Isaan -he is thai and Chinese mixed), and is too old - no one hires a 41 year old. I tell him that when u are in your 40's you are more responsible. Right now he runs one of those clothing shops barely making it. What do you think? Do any businesses hire "older" Thais who do not have a high school education? His attitude is (maybe) typical Thai...it is not "Yes, I can." -But no I can not. (due to Karma?)

YOur buddy is too lazy!

I could not care less of their education or age and most people i know in the business are the same way. This is just an an excuse not to do anything

[lemoncake]

This is not so much about keeping staff, this one is rather about making them respond to a job ad...

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

LOL, tell me secret on how to retain them

I sometimes have 30 call, but only 2 show up for interview, other times not even 1 call for a month of advertising.

PS. I run adverts 365 days per year

PPS. Try Noon at Pattaya Job Center

[lemoncake]

please no more peanuts/monkeys comments. I heard you but it does not apply.

+1

The ones making these comments never had a business in Thailand.

Offering higher salary gets more calls(sometimes) but does not mean the quality of applicants are better.

[raro]

I know a Thai buddy of mine who speaks fair English, has good people skills, and a has a good appearance. He is 41 and when I tell him to go out and apply for some of these jobs he says he can never get a job since he did not graduate from highschool, is from Isaan (doesn't look Isaan -he is thai and Chinese mixed), and is too old - no one hires a 41 year old. I tell him that  when u are in your 40's you are more responsible.  Right now he runs one of those clothing shops barely making it.  What do you think? Do any businesses hire "older" Thais who do not have a high school education?  His attitude is (maybe) typical Thai...it is not "Yes, I can."  -But no I can not. (due to Karma?)

 

 

YOur buddy is too lazy!

 

I could not care less of their education or age and most people i know in the business are the same way. This is just an an excuse not to do anything

well, as a matter of fact, employers in Thailand overvalue university degrees.

After I have been presented with fake degrees many years ago, I never bothered to look into them anymore.

You speak English? Ok, here's the Bangkok Post, please summarise me this article - did this only with those who claimed to speak English but couldn't string two words together.

Then I explain the applicant what the job is all about and ask why they think whether they can do that.

I'm a university drop out myself and do not believe in diploma whatsoever.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lemoncake]

I know a Thai buddy of mine who speaks fair English, has good people skills, and a has a good appearance. He is 41 and when I tell him to go out and apply for some of these jobs he says he can never get a job since he did not graduate from highschool, is from Isaan (doesn't look Isaan -he is thai and Chinese mixed), and is too old - no one hires a 41 year old. I tell him that when u are in your 40's you are more responsible. Right now he runs one of those clothing shops barely making it. What do you think? Do any businesses hire "older" Thais who do not have a high school education? His attitude is (maybe) typical Thai...it is not "Yes, I can." -But no I can not. (due to Karma?)

YOur buddy is too lazy!

I could not care less of their education or age and most people i know in the business are the same way. This is just an an excuse not to do anything

well, as a matter of fact, employers in Thailand overvalue university degrees.

After I have been presented with fake degrees many years ago, I never bothered to look into them anymore.

You speak English? Ok, here's the Bangkok Post, please summarise me this article - did this only with those who claimed to speak English but couldn't string two words together.

Then I explain the applicant what the job is all about and ask why they think whether they can do that.

I'm a university drop out myself and do not believe in diploma whatsoever.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think the "notion" of degree has passed many years ago. So many employers are desperate for staff and just like yourself and myself look for people NOT the paper.

From personal experience, i can also say that uni graduates that i had employed were beyond stupid. and strangely enough i have had about 7 in the past few years and all were pretty much the same.

Possibly for bank employee one must have a degree so one can at least speak nice.

One of my last degree holders(political science) could not take a simple food order , just write down the number and give to cook. She just could not comprehend that.

Looking at job postings, not too many NOW asking for education.Also many now are looking for older people.

[Keesters]

Go and directly talk to the underemployed but salaried staff in places like Homeworks, Homepro etc. Dozens of them all standing around gassing in small groups every time I visit. But beware as sometimes it's hard to get one of them to come and help you. Maybe they just like to get paid but not actually WORK.

[attento]

Basic market economy, increase offer ($) to meet demand

Absolutely correct. At times of nationally, high employment, be careful about taking-on someone who is unemployed. Many of those are the work-shy and incompetant. You want the best, you must be prepared to pay for it. Look for people at their work places, don't advertise to the jobless.

Maybe a hard line, but effective in my experience in both Europe and here.

Well I beg to differ. In all my experience of Thailand for the last 25 years, basic market economy has never really applied. It might apply to western labour but generally not to Thai labour. You can see this with the behaviour of Thai workers in western companies in Thailand - eg. Tesco, Big C, - same herd behaviour as on the street ("mai mee', "over there', 'don't ask me for help please' 'let me play on my mobile', 'I will ask another, then another....... just to pass the buck'. These companies might try their labour theories in the west but they don't apply in Thailand probably because money is just a means to a simple end to Thais, not an objective in itself and not something to save up to buy something (maybe to pay off credit, but that can wait). I am not saying you cannot find good workers in Thailand who might respond to incentives, but they are not that common.

Just goes to show that everyone's experience can be different. We have have seldom struck lucky by taking-on someone who was unemployed. We have found that those who already have jobs are likely to be those who want to work. However, I do agree that Thai work ethic is not same as in some other countries.

[Phil Conners]

The way Thai employers require degrees for shop attendants and such does not make much sense, but I still think a degree is in order for top managerial jobs. Obviously the employer should also do his DD and verify the degree is real; it's not difficult, just call the school.

As for working for farangs vs. for Thais, I don't have any personal experience, but my wife has. She works for a foreigner, long hours, every day, still on minimum salary after 2 years. No raise, no bonus, never are the girls taken out for a dinner or party. These are things that are usually implied with a Thai employer. Although savvy, presentable, reliable and speaking and understanding excellent English, she is unable to land a job with a Thai, as they all require a degree, which she doesn't have.

[lemoncake]

The way Thai employers require degrees for shop attendants and such does not make much sense, but I still think a degree is in order for top managerial jobs. Obviously the employer should also do his DD and verify the degree is real; it's not difficult, just call the school.

As for working for farangs vs. for Thais, I don't have any personal experience, but my wife has. She works for a foreigner, long hours, every day, still on minimum salary after 2 years. No raise, no bonus, never are the girls taken out for a dinner or party. These are things that are usually implied with a Thai employer. Although savvy, presentable, reliable and speaking and understanding excellent English, she is unable to land a job with a Thai, as they all require a degree, which she doesn't have.

Interesting point you raise there about working for a foreigner but being treated same as working for Thai.

I know myself and a few close friends who own/run businesses always take staff out, have parties, bonuses etc and all of us without a fail struggle not only to get staff but to keep staff.

You mentioned your wife has been working for 2 years now, under bad conditions and yet she has not left.

May be (hate to say) but treating staff in "Thai" manner is the way to keep staff.

Perhaps the Western management style of appreciating and treating staff well does not work in Thailand, as locals are not use to it.

I know i had a cook, few years ago who had above minimum salary plus all the perks, 1 day off per week, social security, over time etc etc etc but started to screw around after 5 months(not showing up to work, late, sick etc)

Naturally she was issued warning and fired. Her next job she got paid the minimum wage of 6500 baht for longer days with 1 day off PER MONTH, no social, no over time or anything

She stayed in that job for over a year and never missed a day of work.( i know the facts, because i know the owner of where she is working)

Edited May 15, 2013 by lemoncake

[Card]

Go and directly talk to the underemployed but salaried staff in places like Homeworks, Homepro etc. Dozens of them all standing around gassing in small groups every time I visit. But beware as sometimes it's hard to get one of them to come and help you. Maybe they just like to get paid but not actually WORK.

Just what I said in my post. I often think that service jobs in Thailand are considered by staff to be for their benefit, not that of the customer. The customer is not only secondary to their indulgences like mobile phone use, chatting with colleagues, hiding behind furniture whilst squeezing zits in the mirror, but a downright nuisance to be passed on as quickly as possible as soon as a word of English is spoken. Maybe it is understandable in a local Thai business, where in fact it seldom happens, but Tesco, Big C, HomePro? where is their western style man management theories about customer care and incentives? From what I have gathered in the past, the western management practices in these big businesses have been tried and failed. TIT. Again, there are exceptions to prove the rule.

[Phil Conners]

Well these are obviously the kind of staff that the managers in Thai corporations wants to hire.

[lemoncake]

Well these are obviously the kind of staff that the managers in Thai corporations wants to hire.

I do not think its the matter of "want"

You know the saying, "beggars can't be choosers"

Many businesses are often forced to employ people who clearly do not qualify, but when there is no choice, one has to settle for whats on offer.

At times, i feel like getting a monkey to do the job, surely can not be any worse than staff who does nothing anyway

[Phil Conners]

No, it's back to what we discussed before. Those hired all will have perfectly good degrees and look like a perfect match for the job. On paper. My wife (and many of the girls in our circle in similar circumstances) would not even get an interview for one of these jobs, yet would be able to hold a conversation in fluent English and actually be able to assist the customer.

[jcnbkk]

well, I was running a freight forwarding company here in Pattaya a while ago and we hired our staff mostly through jobbees.com. We had plenty of applicants and were able to chose from them. Not without a certain pride I must say that we had a wonderful team. We also paid well over market - about 30,000 in average per month.

For other companies I worked before I never had any such problem either.

Now we are looking for sales people and we offer an initial guaranteed salary and the prospects of making seriously good money in commissions are very realistic. And yes, this is certainly way over minimum wages. So all those peanuts/monkey comments are valid but do not apply here.

Burmese cannot do this job as we need Thai nationals due to work permit restrictions and Thai language is a must anyways.

Curious. Selling what? Where can I see the ad?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Go and directly talk to the underemployed but salaried staff in places like Homeworks, Homepro etc. Dozens of them all standing around gassing in small groups every time I visit. But beware as sometimes it's hard to get one of them to come and help you. Maybe they just like to get paid but not actually WORK.

I find the staff very helpful in these home improvement stores...sometimes overly so. Maybe you are a scary looking fereng?

[BugJackBaron]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

[lemoncake]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

Unless you are the owner of the place you mentioned, you do not have a clue of what really happens.

[BugJackBaron]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

Unless you are the owner of the place you mentioned, you do not have a clue of what really happens.

Really? Well, I have talked to both owners as a regular customer for more than 2 years. And I have seen staff last there for just as long. I have also talked to some of them and they expressed satisfaction at "better working conditions than other places" (to paraphrase ) Is there some secret privy only to some "inner circle" ?

[toenail]

I am always impressed why a franchise such as Starbucks has such good workers. I am assuming they must pay their employees way beyond the minimum wage because the workers (mostly college age) are focussed and well trained. They are not standing in front of a mirror pressing on their zits or applying white powder...or squatting behind the counter slurping down their noodle soup...or on their cell phone. The clerks at Starbucks and such seem to have some "people skills" in order to handle various kinds of tourists.

[Phil Conners]

I think there is a certain pride for Thai's in working certain places such as Starbucks. Also management is a big deal. In Starbucks and similar chains the manager is right there working side by side with the staff, keeping them in line. I have a feeling that places like Lotus, Big-C etc don't have the same management in place. Also, many of the large malls have staff on site that are not actually hired by the malls but by the larger brand names, in order to push their brands, but that's another thing.

[DonaldBattles]

What is the definition of treating them well and getting something in return. The only way this can be done is have them working for a Thai man not a farang.

[lemoncake]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

Unless you are the owner of the place you mentioned, you do not have a clue of what really happens.

Really? Well, I have talked to both owners as a regular customer for more than 2 years. And I have seen staff last there for just as long. I have also talked to some of them and they expressed satisfaction at "better working conditions than other places" (to paraphrase ) Is there some secret privy only to some "inner circle" ?

OK, so you are under the impression that by being a regular customer , owners were open to confine in you about their business?

When i speak with my customers, no matter regular or not, i certainly do not discuss my business or staff.

[raro]

well, some owners in fact do and I am surprised what I learned from some bar owners about how to treat the staff etc. Not that I always greed with what I have been told.

Again, the problem here is not retaining staff but getting them to sign up in the first place. Where to recruit them?

[BugJackBaron]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

Unless you are the owner of the place you mentioned, you do not have a clue of what really happens.

Really? Well, I have talked to both owners as a regular customer for more than 2 years. And I have seen staff last there for just as long. I have also talked to some of them and they expressed satisfaction at "better working conditions than other places" (to paraphrase ) Is there some secret privy only to some "inner circle" ?

OK, so you are under the impression that by being a regular customer , owners were open to confine in you about their business?

When i speak with my customers, no matter regular or not, i certainly do not discuss my business or staff.

About their bank balance no. About business practices and philosophy, yes.

[raro]

You may want to think about how people who do have good staff keep them for as long as they do. Talk to robin hood bar or Sam's mexican restaurant in Jomtien. They treat their staff well and they are loyal.

Unless you are the owner of the place you mentioned, you do not have a clue of what really happens.

Really? Well, I have talked to both owners as a regular customer for more than 2 years. And I have seen staff last there for just as long. I have also talked to some of them and they expressed satisfaction at "better working conditions than other places" (to paraphrase ) Is there some secret privy only to some "inner circle" ?

OK, so you are under the impression that by being a regular customer , owners were open to confine in you about their business?

When i speak with my customers, no matter regular or not, i certainly do not discuss my business or staff.

About their bank balance no. About business practices and philosophy, yes.

and whatever they tell you about their bank balance, either deduct a digit or rather put a minus in front of the figure....

[ayayay]

I have also experienced it very difficult to hire staff.

2-3 years ago, no problem at all.

Now, it is very difficult.

[BookMan]

I am always impressed why a franchise such as Starbucks has such good workers. I am assuming they must pay their employees way beyond the minimum wage because the workers (mostly college age) are focussed and well trained. They are not standing in front of a mirror pressing on their zits or applying white powder...or squatting behind the counter slurping down their noodle soup...or on their cell phone. The clerks at Starbucks and such seem to have some "people skills" in order to handle various kinds of tourists.

Your point about starbucks having decent workers is very true.

Now if only we can get Starbucks to have some decent coffee!

[JSixpack]

Again, the problem here is not retaining staff but getting them to sign up in the first place. Where to recruit them?

Many Thais find jobs, or apartments, or whatever by walking around, perhaps randomly. Do it the Thai way and put a sign out easily visible from the street w/ salary ranges.

The Tahitian Queen Go-Go has some incredibly long-serving staff. Might be a good case study.

[Card]

Again, the problem here is not retaining staff but getting them to sign up in the first place. Where to recruit them?

Many Thais find jobs, or apartments, or whatever by walking around, perhaps randomly. Do it the Thai way and put a sign out easily visible from the street w/ salary ranges.

The Tahitian Queen Go-Go has some incredibly long-serving staff. Might be a good case study.

Sorry, but I do not believe that Thais who are other than desperately poor walk, yes WALK, around perhaps RANDOMLY in the heat of the day looking for work or a place to stay! It just does not happen. They get jobs and rooms through friends, on the internet, through adverts. They wouldn't walk around randomly in the heat of the day to save their mothers from being eaten by polar bears.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Card

[lemoncake]

I am always impressed why a franchise such as Starbucks has such good workers. I am assuming they must pay their employees way beyond the minimum wage because the workers (mostly college age) are focussed and well trained. They are not standing in front of a mirror pressing on their zits or applying white powder...or squatting behind the counter slurping down their noodle soup...or on their cell phone. The clerks at Starbucks and such seem to have some "people skills" in order to handle various kinds of tourists.

Starbucks is the "image/face" success.ie when they work for such a name it gives them a good face.

To get a job at Hilton takes about 5 interviews, but it does not mean they pay really well.

Its simply an image thing for locals