Can True Really Do Anything About An Unpaid Bill?

[utalkin2me]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

[Thakkar]

Putting aside the morality of paying what you owe, regardless of whether you used the service, the most likely outcome is that nothing will happen.

There is however a small chance of the following:

True hands your case over to, ahem, a "debt collection agency." These guys get to keep 30-50% of anything they recover. They will find your girlfriend by talking to neighbors, and through her, find you. They can use their contacts at police and immigration to flag you when next you land in Thailand. If "Budright" is a common name, they'll probably give up. But if the search turns up a small number of "Budright's" they will find you. You will pay what's owed, plus a penalty. It will all be negotiable.

But the chance of this is small.

Note also that there are many cross holdings when it comes to Thai companies like True. They own any number of big and small companies and these companies share information. So the next time you sign up for something that you may think is not related to True Internet, they might still be able to flag you.

I recommend changing your name and growing a mustache.

T

Edited May 15, 2013 by Thakkar

[DeeMaiDee]

If True have filed a complaint with the police regarding non payment of your bill which is likely, then call them and settle the issue before travelling. Otherwise you could be arrested on arrival and get some free accommodation until your lawyer can get you out.

[soi41]

If True have filed a complaint with the police regarding non payment of your bill which is likely, then call them and settle the issue before travelling. Otherwise you could be arrested on arrival and get some free accommodation until your lawyer can get you out.

Which galaxy are you from?? Debtcollection is a civil matter, nothing to do with the police whatsoever. Why post on something, where you clearly have no knowledge?

[soi41]

Putting aside the morality of paying what you owe, regardless of whether you used the service, the most likely outcome is that nothing will happen.

There is however a small chance of the following:

True hands your case over to, ahem, a "debt collection agency." These guys get to keep 30-50% of anything they recover. They will find your girlfriend by talking to neighbors, and through her, find you. They can use their contacts at police and immigration to flag you when next you land in Thailand. If "Budright" is a common name, they'll probably give up. But if the search turns up a small number of "Budright's" they will find you. You will pay what's owed, plus a penalty. It will all be negotiable.

But the chance of this is small.

Note also that there are many cross holdings when it comes to Thai companies like True. They own any number of big and small companies and these companies share information. So the next time you sign up for something that you may think is not related to True Internet, they might still be able to flag you.

I recommend changing your name and growing a mustache.

T

Good post, and I agree with most of it.

But it should have been: I recommend changing your name and growing some balls!

[arthurwait]

Putting aside the morality of paying what you owe, regardless of whether you used the service, the most likely outcome is that nothing will happen.

There is however a small chance of the following:

True hands your case over to, ahem, a "debt collection agency." These guys get to keep 30-50% of anything they recover. They will find your girlfriend by talking to neighbors, and through her, find you. They can use their contacts at police and immigration to flag you when next you land in Thailand. If "Budright" is a common name, they'll probably give up. But if the search turns up a small number of "Budright's" they will find you. You will pay what's owed, plus a penalty. It will all be negotiable.

But the chance of this is small.

Note also that there are many cross holdings when it comes to Thai companies like True. They own any number of big and small companies and these companies share information. So the next time you sign up for something that you may think is not related to True Internet, they might still be able to flag you.

I recommend changing your name and growing a mustache.

T

Yep, next time you enter a 7/11 or walk past a chicken they have got you.

[jvs]

Let your girlfriend contact True and ask them what is going to happen,they do not know you are returning and maybe will accept some kind of arrangement.They cut you off ten months ago so why don't you ask them if is is ok to pay for the fourteen months?

I think legally you are obliged to pay until you cancel , if i rent a house and go on a holiday i will still have to pay rent for the time i am not there.

Changes are they already moved you to- account non collectable-but the right thing to do is contact them and let them know you want to get things cleared.

[lemoncake]

If the contract was in your name, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. not only that you will not be on any of their black lists, because they do not black list foreigners.

[jbrain]

Putting aside the morality of paying what you owe, regardless of whether you used the service, the most likely outcome is that nothing will happen.

There is however a small chance of the following:

True hands your case over to, ahem, a "debt collection agency." These guys get to keep 30-50% of anything they recover. They will find your girlfriend by talking to neighbors, and through her, find you. They can use their contacts at police and immigration to flag you when next you land in Thailand. If "Budright" is a common name, they'll probably give up. But if the search turns up a small number of "Budright's" they will find you. You will pay what's owed, plus a penalty. It will all be negotiable.

T

Aren't these the guys who is written so much about in recent news reports, which torture and destroy everything on their way untill they get hold of their money?

[SeaVisionBurma]

A couple of wayyyyy off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[Stradavarius37]

No, I have some expectation that they would know Thai Law, not whether they suppose True Corp will send goons to my girlfriend's door demanding money for my internet bill. I really regret posting.

What a chucklehead!

[candypants]

I have True-visions satellite coverage and they cut it off at midnight of your last day if you should forget to pay it. Then they charge you a 100 baht fee to re-start it. I seriously doubt if you have had ANY unpaid service in your absence.

It is highly unlikely they will do anything should you return, particularly with a new passport.

finally the voice of reason.

dead passport, no service recieved don't pay a dime

i highly doubt this would have any effect on you contracting for new service under a different passport at a different address.

i really don't understand the rest of the posters on here who make out you have a moral obligation to pay them a cent.

[kriswillems]

If they don't know where you are, they will not do anything.

That's how it works with Thai people and that's how it will work with you.

That's also why Thai people that have debts are never staying at the address on their identity card and they are also not the owner of the house that's on this address.

The worst thing that could happen is that you're blacklisted for true services.

Edited May 15, 2013 by kriswillems

[PalMan]

There is no question that morally as well as legally you owe the money, assuming that the contract you signed indicated that the obligation would continue until you provided proper termination of the agreement.

However both morally and legally in this case means "in theory", up to you, according to your conscience in the first case and your estimation of the practical risks in the second - which last is of course the point of your question.

If you still had the same passport number it is quite possible they'd make trouble for you next time you wanted to become a True customer, and even with a different passport number there is still a small (IMO) risk of that.

Companies like this do report to credit agencies, but this is likely not of concern to you as an occasional visitor.

They can in theory use collection agencies, but IMO very small risk there.

They can block your leaving the country, again IMO very small risk there. The poster that claimed that civil debts are not a police matter has no clue about how things work in Thailand, if a creditor is powerful and motivated enough they can indeed throw debtors in jail, in this case IMO no risk of that.

So most likely you can just ignore it and nothing in practice is likely to happen. However there is a small risk that there will be some annoyance down the road.

None of these practical considerations have any bearing on the fact that legally and - in the opinion of many (most?) members and certainly the management here - morally you are obliged to give proper cancellation according to the terms of the contract you signed and do owe the full amount due, unless they knock off a certain amount in your good-faith negotiations with you to resolve the matter.

For myself I'm happy to leave it to your own conscience and not pass judgment. If you decide to simply walk into a True shop (I recommend the one on Silom) and talk to the top manager on duty about it you may be pleasantly surprised, and if not will be free to walk away without revealing your new passport number.

[chrisinth]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

[akspace]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

[Andre0720]

Go to one of their offices.

Cancel the service.

Explain the situation.

Ask that a manager in Bangkok be contacted to negociate a reasonable settlement.

Give your phone number.

And wait.

Pay the resulting amount, reduced or not.

Will still be a lot cheaper than if you were back home.

One fewer worries.

Thailand is about enjoyment.

[Andre0720]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

My understanding is that the company provided the connexion. That is what the contract is all about...

If the client does not use it, well....

I wonder what country you are from.

This country where you rent a car, do not drive it for some months, and can refuse to pay.,

[akspace]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

My understanding is that the company provided the connexion. That is what the contract is all about...

If the client does not use it, well....

I wonder what country you are from.

This country where you rent a car, do not drive it for some months, and can refuse to pay.,

Read the post I quoted, if you still don't understand, read it again...

[chrisinth]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

Not sure about the legal implications, to be honest. With the automatic billing, until the computer is told to stop, it will continue to accrue the unpaid bills and send them out. The computer will be told to stop when the contract has been cancelled. This is my understanding anyway.

The service has been stopped, but will become available when the unpaid bills have been settled. Or cancelled when the contract has been terminated.

I'm not sure which other countries you are referring to where businesses do not operate like this?

Again, the above is only my logic of the situation as this is not my field............

[chuckd]

Pay the bill. Then maybe True will have enough money to refund the 4,000 baht we paid as deposit on outdated receivers.

It's only been four months or so since we submitted the paperwork and still no refund checks.

Maybe the checks from TrueVisions are in the mail?

[nachiket]

Nothing will happened to you if you have already renewed your passport.

Happy trip on fresh passport... Cheers!!!

Mine was the same case at the time of leaving Thailand in 2008. Now I am here from last 1.5 years on 'O' visa and staying happily.

Edited May 16, 2013 by nachiket

[akspace]

I would not worry about this at all if you are talking about being held up at the airport or something.

I find it ridiculous that they did not cancel after a month or two of unpaid bills. Isn't that True's problem? They should have cancelled for lack of payment.

Nope, not True's problem as the contract written up between the OP and True is still in force. They have stopped the service but will continue to bill on a monthly basis until the contract has been cancelled. This is part of their automated billing system.

It is not up to them to have a human going 'hands on' to remove it out of the system. The contract needs to be closed out.

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

Not sure about the legal implications, to be honest. With the automatic billing, until the computer is told to stop, it will continue to accrue the unpaid bills and send them out. The computer will be told to stop when the contract has been cancelled. This is my understanding anyway.

The service has been stopped, but will become available when the unpaid bills have been settled. Or cancelled when the contract has been terminated.

I'm not sure which other countries you are referring to where businesses do not operate like this?

Again, the above is only my logic of the situation as this is not my field............

If you cancel the service you are providing in the bilateral contract then the obligations of the second party become void, this is well established in contract law in the EU and the US. My understanding is it also applies in most other countries with similar judicial systems.

When applying it to this case, as soon as True stops providing service you are no longer legally obligated to pay for that service. You still owe any unpaid balance or contract cancellation fee, but you are not required to continue paying for the service.

[joepattaya1961]

A mate of mine is high up the food chain in True, I asked him why I wasn't able to take advantage of an IPhone promotion without a work permit and Visa or MasterCard, he explained that because so many foreigners took advantage of these offers and simply left the country without formally ending the contract on subsidised phones, it was costing them a lot of money, so they became more restrictive.

Partly true.........the reason that you can't participate in a promotion like that without a cc is that they will charge your creditcard monthly until the payment is 100%. Instead of charging the phone bill, they charge the cc-company.

The work-permit is needed in order to get a post-paid contract. Instead of a WP, house papers, retirement visa or any other long term visa + proof of address will do.

I once tried to end my contract with AIS.

The outstanding bill was approx. THB 1700 and I was at TeleWiz to cancel my contract they asked me for a THB 300 deposit.

I didn't understand the THB 300 compared with my outstanding balance of THB 1700, but they said: "Policy Misterrrrr."

So I asked: "I pay THB 300......I leave the country and I'll never pay the bill. Is that okay with you?"

Of course I lost the discussion. I didn't the pay the THB 300 but suspended my account for 6 months.

[The Dude]

the dude has no doubt that the OP like most people did not read the true contract he signed. this would explain his obligations

[PalMan]

This would be illegal in most other countries, you cannot be billed if they are not providing the services, regardless of the contract you signed. I would be surprised if that was any different in Thailand.

If you cancel the service you are providing in the bilateral contract then the obligations of the second party become void, this is well established in contract law in the EU and the US. My understanding is it also applies in most other countries with similar judicial systems.

When applying it to this case, as soon as True stops providing service you are no longer legally obligated to pay for that service. You still owe any unpaid balance or contract cancellation fee, but you are not required to continue paying for the service.

> other countries with similar judicial systems

Which Thailand is not, very few consumer protection laws in place even in theory much less in effect. Why would you think Thailand would want its legal system to comply with western norms?

You can advertise for a personal assistant specifying "attractive female, must be unmarried, no children, age between 18 and 21, native speaker of central Thai dialect, long natural hair and white skin, no more than 43 kg" and then after hiring her ask her for sexual favors in exchange for offering a promotion within the company, all without any legal problems from the government (of course not talking about HR policies if it's an international firm)

You can kick out a tenant out in the street one day after they're late on the bill, using a gang weilding baseball bats.

You can prevent someone leaving the country and/or have them jailed because you think they owe you money, even a trivial amount.

You can have someone put in jail for badmouthing you or your company even in a private conversation and even if every word they say is fact.

You can post a sign outside your business establishment saying "no Arabs" or "Japanese only", or specify that an English teacher must be white and be a national of a specific list of countries.

And this isn't touching the fact that even those areas in theory covered by laws never stand any hope in heck of actually being enforced unless it's in the self-interest of those with power, all the above seems to be perfectly within the letter of the law here.

Allowing for a contract to indefinitely continue and accrue charges until the customer's cancelled according to its procedures seems a very minor difference to me compared to the other above examples.

[Whidbeyboy]

Yep...

Call them and pay it out...

Then thats one less worry...

Unlike your absurd answer I would call them and tell them you would pay for services rendered, but not after it was switched off. You may even be able to negotiate a better deal since they usually will take something over nothing.

If not just pay what you owe and no more. And I really doubt they can do anything about your stay in Thailand as they really have no power over that. Course, doubt you will ever be able to use thier services but who cares? Not sure how credit issues are done in Thailand like being sent to collections, but you have a good case against them for the unused service.

[Andyfez]

I had a similar problem with DTAC.

I told them to end the contract. They told me I had to come into their office.

I told them I was in China, they hadn't got a clue where that was, and said I must go into their office.

6 months later I went back to find an accrued bill which after several shouting matches decided that as it wasn't too large (I hadn't used the service, so just monthly 99 baht) I would pay it for peace of mind.

The main reason I did this was because they could possibly continue to deduct money if I put any in the old bank account.

A lot of cursing and paperwork later I am free of them.

[HUAHIN62]

You are liable for the cost of the contract period. If you had a 12 month contract and only paid for 4 of the 12 months you will be liable to pay for the 8 month balance plus costs.

[hellodolly]

You have to be more specific than 'switched off', was the contract cancelled?

Most likely not, which is why they're continuing to charge you.

I believe what you're actually asking is:

'Since I'm on a different passport number, than the one used to register for the internet, can True still track me down if I don't pay the bill? '

The answer is: who knows, maybe.

Pay the bill, cancel the contract and chalk it up to experience.

Ultimately, the responsiblity for cancelling the contract comes/came down on yourself or your girlfriend.

Even if he dosen't pay he should still cancel the contract.

Do it in writing with a witness so they can not say he didn't cancel it. At least it will stop growing.