Acting Irs Chief Ousted Over Tax Scandal As Obama Vows Change

[F430murci]

I was watching Miller being grilled in Congress on tv today. Seems to not know much though, which makes one wonder why he had such a top job if he was so incompetent, or more likely, he is covering up for the real culprits.

Should be an interesting few weeks ahead, as more info gets dragged out of reluctant participants.

BTW, it's good to see the IRS getting a damn fine kicking!

Especially since before he got the top job at the IRS, he was in charge of the division that investigated organizations requesting tax exempt status. Kind of makes you wonder who was running the shop if he didn't know what was going on? Either that or they are lying through their teeth. I know which I believe.

The IRS has over 100,000 employees and processes maybe 200,000,000 returns a year with multiple offices through out the US. Yeah, one person will definitely know and remember every single thing that every single employee does involving every single return filed so he must be lying. Cannot believe the incompetence and inability of man to keep track of everything going on.

This was not a tax filing - tax return issue. It was the processing for issuance of a not for profit status - an entirely different department of the IRS.

Well duh. The point is how much paper is processed by only a 100,000 employees so you are correct, there would be even a greater flow if paper to add to just the 175,000,000 to 200,000,000 returns each year. Really, can no one take the next logical steps or does everyone have to pick little bits and pieces and take those out of context as opposed to addressing the salient point.

[F430murci]

Didn't Bush use IRS against Green Peace, NAACP, liberal churches and etc? In 2006, the Bush IRS hired a contractor to collect party affiliation data.

Trying to put the blame on Bush once again. He has not been in power for over 5 years. The buck stops here never seems to apply to this particular President for some reason.

No. Seriously. Cannot you not actually keep what I say in context. I said not approve anything and just alluded to double standard and witch hunt mentality apparently motivated by some other factor. Its called healthy skepticism about real issues and validity of allegations. Jeez. Talk about credibility.

Credibility will be when an Obama supporter actually fesses up and says...Gosh, my man actually did it.

It's easier to deflect responsibility and blame Bush though so that is the path well traveled. They've been doing it over five years now.

Let's see, who endorsed this IRS issue as okay in 06, 07, and 08 as okay, but all of a sudden a lesser version of same conduct is impeachable in 2013 when economy starts getting better and Republicans are losing their ammunition and major talking points. Not me. Did you, Mitch McConnell or conservatives ever criticize this type of conduct when it happened under Bush. I doubt it. So who is being disingenuous? Edited May 18, 2013 by F430murci

[chuckd]

Especially since before he got the top job at the IRS, he was in charge of the division that investigated organizations requesting tax exempt status. Kind of makes you wonder who was running the shop if he didn't know what was going on? Either that or they are lying through their teeth. I know which I believe.

The IRS has over 100,000 employees and processes maybe 200,000,000 returns a year with multiple offices through out the US. Yeah, one person will definitely know and remember every single thing that every single employee does involving every single return filed so he must be lying. Cannot believe the incompetence and inability of man to keep track of everything going on.

This was not a tax filing - tax return issue. It was the processing for issuance of a not for profit status - an entirely different department of the IRS.

Well duh. The point is how much paper is processed by only a 100,000 employees so you are correct, there would be even a greater flow if paper to add to just the 175,000,000 to 200,000,000 returns each year. Really, can no one take the next logical steps or does everyone have to pick little bits and pieces and take those out of context as opposed to addressing the salient point.

Nah. No sense addressing a salient point as long as the current guy thinks everything is the fault of the previous guy.

[chuckd]

No. Seriously. Cannot you not actually keep what I say in context. I said not approve anything and just alluded to double standard and witch hunt mentality apparently motivated by some other factor. Its called healthy skepticism about real issues and validity of allegations. Jeez. Talk about credibility.

Credibility will be when an Obama supporter actually fesses up and says...Gosh, my man actually did it.

It's easier to deflect responsibility and blame Bush though so that is the path well traveled. They've been doing it over five years now.

Let's see, who endorsed this IRS issue as okay in 06, 07, and 08 as okay, but all of a sudden a lesser version of same conduct is impeachable in 2013 when economy starts getting better and Republicans are losing their ammunition and major talking points. Not me. Did you, Mitch McConnell or conservatives ever criticize this type of conduct when it happened under Bush. I doubt it. So who is being disingenuous?

I have over 5,000 posts. Surely you can find one that said I supported this during the time in question. If not, you are doing the typical Democratic party strategy. Throw mud against the wall and see what sticks.

[F430murci]

Didn't Bush use IRS against Green Peace, NAACP, liberal churches and etc? In 2006, the Bush IRS hired a contractor to collect party affiliation data. I don't endorse or support abuse regardless of party in control, but there is definitely a different standard being applied by Republicans. Oh, and some of the same Republicans that are so vocal about the AP issue now that involved subpoenas were apparently perfectly okay with Bush seizing phone records from multiple journalist WITHOUT subpoenas and Bush trying to invoke the archaic Espioange Act of 1917.

This stuff is just more of a witch hunt like the Republicans did back in the 1990s against Bill and Hillary Clinton. I also watched part of these stupid and boring IRS hearings last night to try and get a better and objective understanding. I swear someone needs to do some research on the brain activity of hardline Republicans with these inquisition like ideologies. Look at their eyes, their mannerisms, body language and they way they speak. Reminds me of the old days when religious fundamentalist were burning women at the stake. Neurons are just firing differently is something or maybe the liberals are just high on grass, but huge difference in eyes and body language.

Anyway, there is definitely a double standard. Bush actually did much worse. Democrats shook their heads, whinned a bit and sulked off into a corner and Republicans patted him on the back and gave the ole attawayboy. Now those same Republicans are in shock and awe looking to get the fire ready for some witch roasting. Hilarious!

"But Mommy; Robby and Tommy were playing with the water toooooo !! Do you have even the slightest clue as to how childish and silly your comment is?

A bunch of wild and whacky accusations against Bush ( the Boogy Man) to try and excuse the bungling incompetence of Obama and his administration's abuse of power. Of course that fits with Obama's current strategy of "The first I knew about it was from the same news reports as you." and the old standby; "It's Bush's fault".

I don't condone crap and hate abuse of power, but I believe on waiting in evidence before condemning. You guys start with condemning and care little if evidence falls into place to support what you desperate hope to be true.

Once again, the point is whether the allegations against Obama have any validity or is this just MO of conservatives when they feel power slipping or cannot complain about the economy any more.

I don't know what Obama knew or directed nor do you. It does appear that Republicans are simply creating scandals and perhaps making stuff up because thats what they do when control is challenged.

Miraculously, the Republican base just nod their head in agreement and fall for it and now we get Mitch McConnell memos instructing conservatives to not talk about issues and only talk about scandals. This mentality is very divisive and destructive to US.

[F430murci]

No. Seriously. Cannot you not actually keep what I say in context. I said not approve anything and just alluded to double standard and witch hunt mentality apparently motivated by some other factor. Its called healthy skepticism about real issues and validity of allegations. Jeez. Talk about credibility.

Credibility will be when an Obama supporter actually fesses up and says...Gosh, my man actually did it.

It's easier to deflect responsibility and blame Bush though so that is the path well traveled. They've been doing it over five years now.

Let's see, who endorsed this IRS issue as okay in 06, 07, and 08 as okay, but all of a sudden a lesser version of same conduct is impeachable in 2013 when economy starts getting better and Republicans are losing their ammunition and major talking points. Not me. Did you, Mitch McConnell or conservatives ever criticize this type of conduct when it happened under Bush. I doubt it. So who is being disingenuous?

I have over 5,000 posts. Surely you can find one that said I supported this during the time in question. If not, you are doing the typical Democratic party strategy. Throw mud against the wall and see what sticks.

Huh??????? It was more if a rhetorical question to challenge your thought process and motives. You know if this was only offensive to you now or if you have been bothered by it for years. I do think McConnell's record and conservative's stance on the IRS issues since 2006 clearly illustrates the motives here and now with Obama.

Edited May 18, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Condemnation before facts and evidence is in is a bit like burning accused witch at stake to get confession or see if she really was a witch. Conservatives not acting any different now than whack jobs did in Salem.

Edited May 18, 2013 by F430murci

[Baloo22]

I was watching Miller being grilled in Congress on tv today. Seems to not know much though, which makes one wonder why he had such a top job if he was so incompetent, or more likely, he is covering up for the real culprits.

Should be an interesting few weeks ahead, as more info gets dragged out of reluctant participants.

BTW, it's good to see the IRS getting a damn fine kicking!

He is definitely following the lead of the Big Boss in the White House. Obama's routine answer is now "The first I knew about it was from the same news reports as you." It's sad that Obama's defense strategy is now "See here, you can't blame me for this mess because; I did'nt know what was going on in my own administration!" The new "Clueless, Incompetent Bungler Defense".

Edited May 18, 2013 by Baloo22

[Jingthing]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

[NeverSure]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Yeah, those people are called Democrats and they really overplayed their hands this time.

I have no clue why you aren't concerned about at least outright abuses by the IRS. They've needed reigning in for years under various presidents including Clinton.

If they aren't cleaned up, you might be their next victim.

[Loptr]

I am neither a liberal or a conservative. I call bullshit on anyone that is not doing their job, or worse, doing a job on me instead of looking out after my best interests. Isn't that why we elect these people? We the people only have so much choice in the US as it is a republic and we elect officials to govern based on their track record and platform. Unfortunately we have had little choice in the last several elections and it has been a matter of selecting the lesser of two evils. That is until Mr Hope and Change came along. He wooed the public with his smooth delivery and won over the people, including me in 2008. Let's see, McCain & Palin or Obama & Biden. Again, the lesser of two evils. I did not vote for Mr Obama in the last election.

My only fear is that if Mr. Obama is forced out of office, that leaves Smiling Joe Biden to carry the nuclear football and that ain't a pleasant though.

[Bwanatickey]

Recall the History of the U.S.A During probition the only way to stop El Capone was through his tax evasion. That has always been the work of the IRS to protect citizens.

[Jingthing]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Yeah, those people are called Democrats and they really overplayed their hands this time.

I have no clue why you aren't concerned about at least outright abuses by the IRS. They've needed reigning in for years under various presidents including Clinton.

If they aren't cleaned up, you might be their next victim.

When the IRS was targeting left wing groups for many years, not one peep from the right wing. Now it's the supposedly the biggest scandal in history. Interesting ...

I have already stated the tax free treatment gimmick these Tea People were seeking shouldn't be granted to ANY such groups of any political stripe.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Jingthing

[Publicus]

Gotta love Mitch McConnell memo directing Republicans to stay on scandal and don't talk about anything regarding policies, economy or issues. This really illustrates true nature and purpose of what they are dredging up and trying to do. Funny part is how many people this actually works on as amply illustrated here so they keep doing it.

Yes, I wanna see Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and all the rest of the no holds barred crowd in the Senate come forward and start talking their unrestrained rightwingnut off the wall politics. The Gallup poll of May 17th found barely half of Americans are paying attention to this issue, (same for Benghazi). The public already knows from the two dozen Republican primary debates of early last year that Republicans are a bunch of kooks who put politics above justice, and above governing.

Wait'll the Senate crazies come out into the halls of the Capitol now that Mitch McConnell has opened their cages. Even more Americans are going to recoil and blow this whole thing off altogether because they know it is strictly partisan politics. Time in fact is on Prez Obama's side. Wait out the Senate wingnuts who very soon will be shooting off their mouths, turning off Independents especially who already aren't much interested in this either.

Bring on the rabid hounds of rightwing rednecked America!

[Publicus]

Yeah, yeah, I already know - you say the Gallup poll ain't worth beans.

Fact is, you don't like its scientific findings, that's all.

There are other reputable and reliable scientific surveys coming out that find the same indifference among the public to the SOS of R party politicking in Washington.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Obama Agenda Marches on Despite Controversies

By Associated Press | May 18, 2013

“They just want to do nothing. And their timetable is never,” Pelosi said of GOP lawmakers.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/63372-obama-agenda-marches-on-despite-controversies/

[snarky66]

Yeah it kinda makes you wonder how Dingy Harry Reid got his hands on Mitt Romney's tax returns doesn't it?

[Publicus]

Yeah it kinda makes you wonder how Dingy Harry Reid got his hands on Mitt Romney's tax returns doesn't it?

No.

The question was answered unequivocally last year.

The answer is no, the IRS did not provide Reid with information about Willard Mitt Romney's tax returns, which Willard himself would not release. This, despite the fact when Willard's father George ran for prez in the 1960s he released his tax returns of the previous ten years.

Did the IRS give Mitt Romney’s tax returns to Harry Reid?

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/16/did-the-irs-give-romneys-tax-returns-to-harry-reid/#ixzz2TgKXpSUL

[NeverSure]

Obama Agenda Marches on Despite Controversies

By Associated Press | May 18, 2013

“They just want to do nothing. And their timetable is never,” Pelosi said of GOP lawmakers.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/63372-obama-agenda-marches-on-despite-controversies/

So that's what Nasty Piglosi thinks, is it. We'll her opinion ain't shirt.

She used to be Speaker of The House until she got demoted by the majority of US voters. And yes, that's how it works. The US voters gave control of her little former kingdom to the Republicans and now she sucks hind dirt.

You can do better than that.

[Publicus]

Obama Agenda Marches on Despite Controversies

By Associated Press | May 18, 2013

“They just want to do nothing. And their timetable is never,” Pelosi said of GOP lawmakers.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/63372-obama-agenda-marches-on-despite-controversies/

So that's what Nasty Piglosi thinks, is it. We'll her opinion ain't shirt.

She used to be Speaker of The House until she got demoted by the majority of US voters. And yes, that's how it works. The US voters gave control of her little former kingdom to the Republicans and now she sucks hind dirt.

You can do better than that.

Yeah, it's called congressional redistricting of the House of Representatives, based on each state's population. Republicans have created nationwide a majority of solid red congressional seats for at least the remainder of the decade. Each party does it, except in certain states, which have an independent House of Representatives redistricting commission rather than leave the redistricting to the politically loaded state legislatures and governors.

BTW, last November the total national popular vote for the House of all 435 House Congressional Districts gave the Democratic party the national majority of the popular vote. Yet Republicans retained their majority membership control of the House due to the redistricted, district-by-district vote. Again, we see in the United States that the minority vote rules. That's called Republican Party monopoly democracy, i.e., gerrymandering.

And while we're at it, here's the data in respect to Prez Obama's approval rating from Gallup as of last Friday. Obama's present data continues to be strong.

The historical data shows Obama has never reached the lows of former presidents Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon. Either each and all of them were that bad, or Obama is that good.

Republicans in the House have the majority of the voters against them, based on the aggregate vote of the United States for the House last November, which gave the Democrats the majority of the national popular vote for the House.

You haven't any argument due to the fact the Republicans got only a minority of the national popular vote for the House last November. Republicans gerrymandered their way into the majority. Republicans cheated the electors of the United States.

Presidential Approval Ratings -- Barack Obama http://www.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx

[JDGRUEN]

RE: 430Murci #151

It is a different IRS department processing a much smaller amount of applications - there is not intermixing of jobs - don't you get that? It is not just one big pile of paper you know...

[qdinthailand]

Exactly Chuckd - please provide names of Obama admin officials (not career IRS civil servants - but political appointees) who told the IRS to go after the Tea Party groups.

[JDGRUEN]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Methinks that slobbering obama sycophants are in a state of denial ...

[Ulysses G.]

Exactly Chuckd - please provide names of Obama admin officials (not career IRS civil servants - but political appointees) who told the IRS to go after the Tea Party groups.

That will be up to the special prosecuter.

[F430murci]

RE: 430Murci #151

It is a different IRS department processing a much smaller amount of applications - there is not intermixing of jobs - don't you get that? It is not just one big pile of paper you know...

Oh jeez. An OCD kid with a learning disability could figure this out. Let's take Steven Miller and criticism he does not know everything that happens and who directs it. What office was processing or making determinations? Cincinati. Was Steven Miller in Cincinati processing? Where was he based? Is he an idiot for not knowing everything 100,000 employees were doing? Is he annudiot for not knowing every detail about every filing, every audit and every application which perhaps numbers 200,000,000?

Intersting quote on Forbes from a CPA and his take on this issue:

As a CPA who has prepared applications for exempt status, I do not see how any tea party organization was harmed. A nonprofit can commence operations while the application is in process, and all of these applications were either approved or are still in process (except for a few withdrawn by the applicants themselves).

The IRS was criticized for not paying enough attention to political activity of exempt organizations and hit with a surge in applications. They formed a specialist group to review applications of organizations that appeared to be likely to engage in political activity. If your application got sent to the specialist group, it was slowed down. Ultimately, they became paralyzed because they could not figure out what criteria they should be using. More people got involved. The left hand did not know what the right hand was doing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2013/05/15/have-some-sympathy-for-irs-cincinnati-gang-that-couldnt-sort-straight/

Edited May 19, 2013 by F430murci

[geriatrickid]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Yeah, those people are called Democrats and they really overplayed their hands this time.

I have no clue why you aren't concerned about at least outright abuses by the IRS. They've needed reigning in for years under various presidents including Clinton.

If they aren't cleaned up, you might be their next victim.

What abuse? All that was examined was the qualification for charitable status. The groups were not harassed, nor spied upon. They were free to continue operating. I would think that the GOP would have encouraged the verification of all these political groups seeking tax exempt status.

[JDGRUEN]

RE: 430Murci #151

It is a different IRS department processing a much smaller amount of applications - there is not intermixing of jobs - don't you get that? It is not just one big pile of paper you know...

Oh jeez. An OCD kid with a learning disability could figure this out. Let's take Steven Miller and criticism he does not know everything that happens and who directs it. What office was processing or making determinations? Cincinati. Was Steven Miller in Cincinati processing? Where was he based? Is he an idiot for not knowing everything 100,000 employees were doing? Is he annudiot for not knowing every detail about every filing, every audit and every application which perhaps numbers 200,000,000?

Intersting quote on Forbes from a CPA and his take on this issue:

As a CPA who has prepared applications for exempt status, I do not see how any tea party organization was harmed. A nonprofit can commence operations while the application is in process, and all of these applications were either approved or are still in process (except for a few withdrawn by the applicants themselves).

The IRS was criticized for not paying enough attention to political activity of exempt organizations and hit with a surge in applications. They formed a specialist group to review applications of organizations that appeared to be likely to engage in political activity. If your application got sent to the specialist group, it was slowed down. Ultimately, they became paralyzed because they could not figure out what criteria they should be using. More people got involved. The left hand did not know what the right hand was doing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2013/05/15/have-some-sympathy-for-irs-cincinnati-gang-that-couldnt-sort-straight/

Deflect - Deflect - Deflect ... no one was injured because someone who wasn't affected said that it was okay... Interesting!!! The ones who were actually affected by the mean spirited politically punitive - biased obama bureaucrats get the say in what was important or not ... not some obama minion who would vehemently defend obama if he ate kittens for breakfast on national T.V.

[JDGRUEN]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Yeah, those people are called Democrats and they really overplayed their hands this time.

I have no clue why you aren't concerned about at least outright abuses by the IRS. They've needed reigning in for years under various presidents including Clinton.

If they aren't cleaned up, you might be their next victim.

What abuse? All that was examined was the qualification for charitable status. The groups were not harassed, nor spied upon. They were free to continue operating. I would think that the GOP would have encouraged the verification of all these political groups seeking tax exempt status.

So being grilled about the nature of their prayers and being ask for 'back door' access to the group's website wasn't obtrusive ... interesting !!!

[Asiantravel]

RE: 430Murci #151

It is a different IRS department processing a much smaller amount of applications - there is not intermixing of jobs - don't you get that? It is not just one big pile of paper you know...

Oh jeez. An OCD kid with a learning disability could figure this out. Let's take Steven Miller and criticism he does not know everything that happens and who directs it. What office was processing or making determinations? Cincinati. Was Steven Miller in Cincinati processing? Where was he based? Is he an idiot for not knowing everything 100,000 employees were doing? Is he annudiot for not knowing every detail about every filing, every audit and every application which perhaps numbers 200,000,000?

Intersting quote on Forbes from a CPA and his take on this issue:

As a CPA who has prepared applications for exempt status, I do not see how any tea party organization was harmed. A nonprofit can commence operations while the application is in process, and all of these applications were either approved or are still in process (except for a few withdrawn by the applicants themselves).

The IRS was criticized for not paying enough attention to political activity of exempt organizations and hit with a surge in applications. They formed a specialist group to review applications of organizations that appeared to be likely to engage in political activity. If your application got sent to the specialist group, it was slowed down. Ultimately, they became paralyzed because they could not figure out what criteria they should be using. More people got involved. The left hand did not know what the right hand was doing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2013/05/15/have-some-sympathy-for-irs-cincinnati-gang-that-couldnt-sort-straight/

" The left hand did not know what the right hand was doing."

But when the same pattern emerges in three simultaneous scandals shouldn't the American people become a little more sceptical as to whether their leaders are being disingenuous or not?

I mean the very fact that there was enough material to fill a website dedicated to listing all of the untruths Obama had already told during his first term should have started the alarm bells ringing long ago?

[Ulysses G.]

Methinks the Obama derangement syndrome sufferers are overplaying their hand ...

Yeah, those people are called Democrats and they really overplayed their hands this time.

I have no clue why you aren't concerned about at least outright abuses by the IRS. They've needed reigning in for years under various presidents including Clinton.

If they aren't cleaned up, you might be their next victim.

What abuse? All that was examined was the qualification for charitable status. The groups were not harassed, nor spied upon. They were free to continue operating. I would think that the GOP would have encouraged the verification of all these political groups seeking tax exempt status.

They were harrassed by having their status delayed for years and having to answer questions that had nothing to do with their applications because they were conservative organizations.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Ulysses G.