How Can Cm Establish A Bicycle Path Network Throughout The City?

[OldChinaHam]

This is in response to a recent Topic posted in the Chiang Mai Forum, dealing with our secret wishes for Chiang Mai.

I have lived for a number of years in a very user-unfriendly Asian city which was not much fun. Then the government truly made a commitment to constructing an extensive network of bike paths extending for many kilometers, which allowed bikers and families with bikes to travel effectively to many places for leisure and for exercise. The network was kept separate from traffic and was well lit at night and incorporated many safety features.

This bike network proved to be money extremely well spent because it improved the health of the people, and contributed to the feeling of well-being among the city's inhabitants.

Chiang Mai with its lower labor costs could install a similar bike network which would yield many benefits to tourism, as well as other year round advantages to people and families who live in Chiang Mai.

I am wondering how someone, some group, could actually get something like this set in motion? Or, does Chiang Mai already have plans for this type of bike network, or is there now one in place which has escaped me and I do not know exists?

This is a serious topic which can improve the lives of anyone in the CM city.

Would those who feel strongly about this issue/possibility provide their thoughts below?

Note: The bike path network that I have seen in one other Asian city extends for, I was told, over 100 kilometers. Sorry, I have not been able to check the exact data on network kilometers.

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[DaamNaam]

You can have all the bicycle lanes in the world here and it will make no difference whatsoever. Not until the local drivers "get it together", in other words hell will freeze over first.

Secondly it wouldn't be policed (as nothing is here) and the lanes will be used as extra lanes for cars / motorbikes / buses / songtaews / buffalos, etc.

Nice pipedream though, along with footpaths (pavements) and underground power lines.

[MESmith]

Would only work if physically separate from roads. Then would only have to share with m/c &

foodstalls.

[hml367]

They have bike lanes from some years ago..... used just as DaamNaam says in #2.

[Ulysses G.]

Correct. There are already bicycle lanes here, but they are mainly used as an excuse for motorcycles to go in the wrong direction on one way streets. There is no way that they will ever be seperate from other traffic, because most of the roads are too narrow for cars to pass each other easily going in opposite directions.

[JomtienEats]

Terrific idea. The pavements here are in a state of disrepair. A new cycle path would make for a much better place to park motorcycles, erect telegraph poles, set up food businesses, place advertising hoardings and act as a traffic contraflow.

Sorry its difficult to take this idea seriously as it requires enforcement . . . not Thailand's strong suit. With enough political will, it could get built, but it could never be useable.

[mamborobert]

Would only work if physically separate from roads. Then would only have to share with m/c &

foodstalls.

Make an interesting ride home on a tuktuk as well.

Soi dogs everywhere are salivating in expectation.

Surely there are far better things for the city to spend money on, health, education, dare I say policing.

It seems a bit indulgent to outlay any significant amount of money without addressing other issues first......especially when I presume major use would be for...tourists I would have thought....and only the fitter ones at that when it becomes an obstacle course/raceway. We need more head injuries and broken limbs in Ram,.

Most self respecting12 year old Thais are riding motorcyles (sans helmet) to school (with siblings)...and exercise? the ones I know will ride a motor 100 metres to a 7/11.

Labor you say is cheap....but what about the land costs....they would be significant. It would be a round about route through officials fringe land so they could charge a premium......and then put condos on the edges.

Not something I would be in favour of ...and more likely to be in the against grouping.

[OldChinaHam]

Sure, these were the same negative expectations which people similarly voiced when someone proposed doing this elsewhere. The city was Taipei, and really very little ever worked right there, together with, as you say, plenty of scofflaw behavior. I do not know why the result turned out to be a terrific success as it did.

If you wish to see crazy parking of motorbikes on every sidewalk, then go to Taipei, it takes the cake for such things.

It turned out that when the bike path network was finally built the people got behind it and made it work.

And, yes of course, the network was constructed so that it was separate from motorized vehicles.

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[bigbamboo]

Nice idea and worth persuing. Of course there is plenty of scope of cycling in CM as long as you stay clear of downtown but it might take a 'green' governor to be in place, one who puts the people ahead of his pocket, to develop an extensive network.

This being CM that is, sadly, unlikely.

Edited May 19, 2013 by bigbamboo

[mamborobert]

Your not seriously comparing Taipei/Taiwan with Chiang Mai/Thailand

Similar government, economy, policing, education, town planning, democracy etc....?

Edited May 19, 2013 by mamborobert

[OldChinaHam]

You know, a true fact is that traffic and driving in CM is downright civilized compared to what you will find in Taipei. Well, you guys should know, should you not? You are the ones always complaining about the behavior of the Chinese when they visit Chiang Mai. Are you not?

[JomtienEats]

No, I doubt you'll get the Thai's off their beloved motorsai's onto bikes. I think they regard walking and cycling as something of a bizarre foreign eccentricity.

Having given Chiang Mai's traffic problems nearly five full minutes of consideration, I now have the solution. What CM needs is a congestion charge. Free for motorsai's, but get all those ugly great cars off the roads inside the ring road. Sell the permits (the politicians can keep the money), fine non permit holders (the BIB can keep the fines). There you go, a workable, feasible, costed solution.

Edited May 19, 2013 by JomtienEats

[MESmith]

I like cycling, but after one trip into the city, never again. The traffic exhaust fumes were awful.

When I go out on my bike, I truck it to the edge of the valley & enjoy quiet, traffic free cycling in rural environment. Don't even ride where I live in the ricefields - flat, hot & boring.

[OldChinaHam]

To JomTienEats:

Laugh if you choose. If I were you, I might too. But I have seen attitudes change radically when I never thought they would. And I am telling you, the bike path network in Taiwan just works. Do you really think people are so very different? Do you???

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[OldChinaHam]

Yes Mr. Smith, but I am not talking about having you use this path. You do not need to use it because you have alternatives. But the people in Taipei still ride in the fumes, and it is better than not riding at all. This solution is already well documented and is now working well.

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[junglechef]

As a cyclist the idea is great but I believe the culture would not support it. Firstly as with other places I've rode people wouldn't respect it and it would be used for baby carriages among other things which would be dangerous if one is riding along at an exersice pace. And here it would fill up with sellers and their wares, motorcycles etc. as has be mentioned. And there is not much of a culture of safety here the features wouldn't be adequate. But if you want such an experience it is not only possible close by (there's a nice no car allowed circular paved path at Huey Tung Tao) but a little further where I ride between rice fields which are often paved, canal roads and in the forest parks it is peaceful, safe and the reason I moved up here.

[OldChinaHam]

Junglechef, These are all things that many people expected would happen with the Taipei network, but it still proved a big success. It is true that the people in Taipei seem to have done excellent design work from the beginning. Originally, you would have thought that they had no space to insert the network due to the existing roadways, but their solutions were creative enough to make it work.

[JomtienEats]

Do you really think people are so very different? Do you???

Genetically, we're all near identical. Culturally, people can be indoctrinated to believe nearly anything, and with conviction. That can make us very different.

I'm not laughing at you particularly. I just think it is a wholly unrealistic and unworkable idea for Chiang Mai. I wish it wasn't.

[JomtienEats]

Here's some more info for those interested in Taipei and the issues around cycling lanes, cars and motorsai's . . .

http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/taiwan-cycling-tale-of-two-cities-hsinchu-city-and-taipei/

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

They could propose a covered elevated bicycle walk way. Think of a spine or elevated highway connecting different regions.

Would be a huge tourist attraction. Could have a some side sections for vendors and viewpoints. It could be the park system CM doesn't have and really needs.

Would have a sun reflective and rain roof for all season use. Water spray misters would protect users lungs and keep them cool. Like a MRT for cyclists/tourists etc. Fees would keep the riff raff off it.

We are talking wood or steel and corrugated plastic/metal roofing. Not terribly expensive.

The Govt could make a bunch of drawings. Would go from the Universities to the downtown and shopping like a highway.

Would have some tributaries to other areas as well as dumping onto bicycle corridors with less crowded lanes.

The project would get a big budget and Thailand could proclaim themselves the HUB of green transportation.

Most of the funds will be skimmed and the project partially built years late.

Seriously it's the right climate and situation to work but the culture of incompetence and corruption would never permit.

Even more ambitious is to have elevated transit system and separate side lane for cyclists, walkers, rollerblades etc.

Edited May 19, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[heybruce]

I think we're all in agreement; bike lanes would be a brilliant improvement to the city, but bike lanes that are kept safe from other traffic and free of vendors or people looking for convenient parking will never happen.

[OldChinaHam]

I am not sure, but it seems to me that, is it possible?, some are saying there is something deeply defective about the people or the culture of CM, which precludes them having a successful bike path network like other civilized places have. Is that what you are laughing at? The fact that people here are not civilized enough, or culturally advanced enough, to have proper bike paths?

Kind of very strange reasoning.

Maybe it is kind of very strange wishful thinking?

[OldChinaHam]

I will readily admit that before I saw the Taipei bike path experiment succeed I voiced many similar negative views about possible outcomes.

I was proved wrong by the reality that unfolded during a period of about 5 years during the building of much of the network.

I am not a bike rider. I have not ridden a bike since I was 12. And I have no wish to ride.

But I have seen the benefits that the bike path network in Taipei has brought, and it is worth the effort.

Chiang Mai does not need a world class network. It only needs a low cost workable solution which will provide 80 percent or even half of what some of you might consider to be an optimal bike path network.

Think it over and come up with some good solutions if this might be of interest to anyone.

Obviously this is probably just a thought experiment because, as we all know, Farang and Thais might not be willing to ride on the same path.

Do you think?

[OldChinaHam]

And thank you for taking the time to post the information about the Taipei bike path. Please post more if you find it. The Taipei system is far from perfect, but it is far better than not having what they already have, and it will continue to get better. (Unless you are as much a pessimist about life as I. then you will agree.)

Edited May 19, 2013 by OldChinaHam

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They have bike lanes from some years ago..... used just as DaamNaam says in #2.

I assumed the OP meant properly separated. That almost goes without saying. But then you immediately have a challenge in making sure you don't cause more congestion by eating into the space cars need; it would work for some roads though, even if if means making some of them one-way, such as Ratchadamnoen and Ratwithee roads, and Ratchapakinai and Phrapokklao, Samlarn, etc. (Well, all roads within the moat basically. ) Then you can fit a separated bike lane. Those roads aren't terribly congested anyway, so motorcycles have no real reason to use them. (though if they do, punishment will be death. )

[MESmith]

Making roads one way would probably help congestion in the city. eg Charoen Muang & Kaeow Nawarat should be one way, in & out of the city. That would free up space for cycle lanes. But in all honesty, it's the Thai people that should be asking for this. Need to convince them to take to their bikes. Not tourists. Climate is one drawback.

Park 'n' rides are needed, with parking on the superhighway ring road, with comfortable, frequent electric aircon buses heading into the centre, along all the arterial roads and around the moat.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Park & Rides sound nice, but when you think about it there is really nothing stopping me from parking anywhere nearish to the superhighway ring road and grabbing a Songthaew (red or otherwise) into town. Ok they're not electric, but it's the same sort of burden on me. Parking is not hard to find anywhere (and especially not way out) so there really is nothing stopping me from starting to 'park & ride' tomorrow. But.. "meh".. because traffic downtown really isn't anywhere near bad enough to contemplate this, and parking almost anywhere downtown is super easy too.

Also, park & ride schemes cost more money (electric buses, and buying up land for parking), whereas bicycle lanes are relatively cheap and don't require much in the way of labor or maintenance once established.

Edited May 19, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[MESmith]

Park & Rides sound nice, but when you think about it there is really nothing stopping me from parking anywhere nearish to the superhighway ring road and grabbing a Songthaew (red or otherwise) into town. Ok they're not electric, but it's the same sort of burden on me. Parking is not hard to find anywhere (and especially not way out) so there really is nothing stopping me from starting to 'park & ride' tomorrow.

Also, park & ride schemes cost more money (electric buses, and buying up land for parking), whereas bicycle lanes are relatively cheap and don't require much in the way of labor or maintenance once established.

You might be willing to park & take a songteaw, but it's the folk that have just got their new car that are not willing to give it up in a hurry. Need to get them out of their cars & on to public transport. They wont travel by songteaw ever again, guaranteed. Doesn't bother me personally as I visit the city centre once a month at the most.

[highonthai]

A bike lane really?

Los Angeles has just implement new bikes lanes a around a year ago. They have created traffic problems and only 5 people use them!

They dont work in a city that is a established motorcycle/Car city.

Why do bicycle riders always have a holier than thou attitude about riding their bikes on the street or in bike lanes?

Almost all of the casual bike riders that ride the steets of CM are allways a hazzard to themself's and to passing cars and motorcycles.

I say no, everyone complains about city traffic and now you want to reduce the road area for a few bicycles?

Why not a car pool lane? Jezzeee...

I'm a compedent motorcycle rider and i would NOT ride a bicycle in the city! Your just setting yourself up for problem.

Why should bicycles has a seperate lane why not motorcycles? Skateboards? etc.

And while I'm at it Why is everyone trying to change this place? You say it's losing its charm? Well, allot of you are having dreams of modernising the place, but its you that is ruining at the same time.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I don't care what or how they do it in China, or Taiwan!

(Rant over)

[OldChinaHam]

Hightonthai: I agree with you that it would be bad to reduce the roadway. However, by much of what I have seen in Taipei, this does not seem to be always required. I fully admit to not being an expert as I am sure you can tell, and as I have stated above I am also not a bike rider. I only see the benefits to others of having bike paths in the city of Taipei and so I think it would be wise to consider this for Chiang Mai.