Details Thaksin Did Not Tell The Red Shirts

[metisdead]

Turn off you Caps Lock button when posting, one post removed.

[pinosho]

WHAT'S TRULY AMAZING IS THAT A FUGITIVE WANTED BY THE JUSTICE IS ALLOWED(by whom?) TO ORGANIZE AND ADDRESS RALLIES IN DIRECT !!!

Thailand is the only country in the world that's run by skype !!

So any druglord with enough money and supporters could use his billions to buy people and favours to run the very same country that's trying to apprehend him !!!

WOW that' democracy @ its weirdest !!!

[bigbamboo]

WHAT'S TRULY AMAZING IS THAT A FUGITIVE WANTED BY THE JUSTICE IS ALLOWED(by whom?) TO ORGANIZE AND ADDRESS RALLIES IN DIRECT !!!

Thailand is the only country in the world that's run by skype !!

So any druglord with enough money and supporters could use his billions to buy people and favours to run the very same country that's trying to apprehend him !!!

WOW that' democracy @ its weirdest !!!

To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom. Some would argue Brunei and Singapore as well only they dressed it up better. That accounts for the entire membership of ASEAN so why would Thailand be any different?

[scorecard]

WHAT'S TRULY AMAZING IS THAT A FUGITIVE WANTED BY THE JUSTICE IS ALLOWED(by whom?) TO ORGANIZE AND ADDRESS RALLIES IN DIRECT !!!

Thailand is the only country in the world that's run by skype !!

So any druglord with enough money and supporters could use his billions to buy people and favours to run the very same country that's trying to apprehend him !!!

WOW that' democracy @ its weirdest !!!

To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom. Some would argue Brunei and Singapore as well only they dressed it up better. That accounts for the entire membership of ASEAN so why would Thailand be any different?

So your saying that because other countries have some scaly history (and I certainly don't agree with your 'all embracing' list of countries) therefore it's 'fair' that Thailand be included on the list?

What rubbish.

[bigbamboo]

WHAT'S TRULY AMAZING IS THAT A FUGITIVE WANTED BY THE JUSTICE IS ALLOWED(by whom?) TO ORGANIZE AND ADDRESS RALLIES IN DIRECT !!!

Thailand is the only country in the world that's run by skype !!

So any druglord with enough money and supporters could use his billions to buy people and favours to run the very same country that's trying to apprehend him !!!

WOW that' democracy @ its weirdest !!!

To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom. Some would argue Brunei and Singapore as well only they dressed it up better. That accounts for the entire membership of ASEAN so why would Thailand be any different?

So your saying that because other countries have some scaly history (and I certainly don't agree with your 'all embracing' list of countries) therefore it's 'fair' that Thailand be included on the list?

What rubbish.

In saying it's fair I'm not justifying what happens in Thailand but that it should not be such a surprise it happens.

And which countries would you not say have at some time not fallen into this 'all embracing' category?

[surangw]

like most politicians if he had not left out things in his plans ( told the whole truth) no one would follow him.

[yoshiwara]

WHAT'S TRULY AMAZING IS THAT A FUGITIVE WANTED BY THE JUSTICE IS ALLOWED(by whom?) TO ORGANIZE AND ADDRESS RALLIES IN DIRECT !!!

Thailand is the only country in the world that's run by skype !!

So any druglord with enough money and supporters could use his billions to buy people and favours to run the very same country that's trying to apprehend him !!!

WOW that' democracy @ its weirdest !!!

To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom. Some would argue Brunei and Singapore as well only they dressed it up better. That accounts for the entire membership of ASEAN so why would Thailand be any different?

So your saying that because other countries have some scaly history (and I certainly don't agree with your 'all embracing' list of countries) therefore it's 'fair' that Thailand be included on the list?

What rubbish.

In saying it's fair I'm not justifying what happens in Thailand but that it should not be such a surprise it happens.

And which countries would you not say have at some time not fallen into this 'all embracing' category?

Yes you are. You are attempting a whitewash relativist job on Thaksin and a poor attempt it is. So lets look at your junk list. Vietnam as a united country since 1975. Please amuse us.

[hellodolly]

Why we continue speaking about an escaped criminal ,who lost his face years ago beeing kicked out of power by his own countrymen !

Sentenced for billion theft and then fled and lost his face .

They dont have to talk about him no more unless they arrest him and put him in jail .

The only supporters he has are paid for it,so ignore them .

Newspaper covers should be : why is this fugitive criminal not brought in ,sice they know where he is ?

Well we do talk about him a lot and most of what you say is true.

But what you omitted to say was he is still running Thailand Politically.

Now that is every day news.

[Rich teacher]

Sorry to say so but one has to be ignorant to believe Thaksin isn't it?

You can blame others for the mess Thailand is in today but if you are honest

to yourself you would agree that the guy is a born liar and manipulator.

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

Or is it becoming more like a winning and loosing game?

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

§ Thaksin's economic policies, helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial

crisis and substantially reduce poverty.

§ GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006.

§ Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.

§ Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.

§ Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) )

§ The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region

§ After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable

fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.

§ Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.

§ Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.

§ Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public. Prior

to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health

insurance and only limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase

access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96%.

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

§ The Thaksin era also saw the opening of a number of government one-stop service centers to reduce red tape for anything from investment to utilities and ID-card processing.

§ After more than 30 years of planning and debate, the Thaksin government finally completed the

construction of the new Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

[waza]

He didn't tell them they are expendable

[pacharaphet]

Thaksin is the problem, if he wasn't pushing the agenda then the Yingluck coalition could get down to fulfilling their mandate of improving the lives of the poor, unifying Thais and bringing democracy to Thailand.

This is super super sarcastic, right? Just making sure....

[yoshiwara]

Sorry to say so but one has to be ignorant to believe Thaksin isn't it?

You can blame others for the mess Thailand is in today but if you are honest

to yourself you would agree that the guy is a born liar and manipulator.

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

Or is it becoming more like a winning and loosing game?

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

§ Thaksin's economic policies, helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial

crisis and substantially reduce poverty.

§ GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006.

§ Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.

§ Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.

§ Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) )

§ The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region

§ After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable

fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.

§ Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.

§ Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.

§ Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public. Prior

to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health

insurance and only limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase

access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96%.

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

§ The Thaksin era also saw the opening of a number of government one-stop service centers to reduce red tape for anything from investment to utilities and ID-card processing.

§ After more than 30 years of planning and debate, the Thaksin government finally completed the

construction of the new Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

Actually what is remarkable about the period of 2001-2006 which was a period of growth and recovery for Thailand and other countries in the region (see eg Malaysia) is that Thaksin instead of building upon the regional growth opportunities turned the Thailand story into one of accelerated corruption and self-aggrandisement. In short his policies held back Thailand and continue to do so today. The suggestion that educated people might not support Thaksin has been disproved on one level with the craven support of a layer of academics from the Thai education system, but then one shouldn't be surprised at this. From being a hope for the future to money laundering is a story that has echoes also in Philippines with the Marcos family. The redshirts and cringing falangs may be excited by the story being peddled of Thaksin leading some type of class struggle but the NE landowners know different. Thaksin is their boy and the message has dirty hands.

[OzMick]

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

As there is no cure for HIV/Aids, I can only assume those infected died, or possibly emigrated. Perhaps this was because the B30 health care scheme was unfunded, and hospitals close to insolvency could no longer supply their medication?

[Rich teacher]

Sorry to say so but one has to be ignorant to believe Thaksin isn't it?

You can blame others for the mess Thailand is in today but if you are honest

to yourself you would agree that the guy is a born liar and manipulator.

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

Or is it becoming more like a winning and loosing game?

It still puzzles me that there are well educated/informed people around who support him.

§ Thaksin's economic policies, helped Thailand recover from the 1997 Asian financial

crisis and substantially reduce poverty.

§ GDP grew from 4.9 trillion baht in 2001 to 7.1 trillion baht in 2006.

§ Income in the Northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 46% from 2001 to 2006.

§ Nationwide poverty fell from 21.3% to 11.3%.

§ Thailand's Gini coefficient, a measure of income inequality, fell from .525 in 2000 to .499 in 2004 (it had risen from 1996 to 2000) )

§ The Stock Exchange of Thailand outperformed other markets in the region

§ After facing fiscal deficits in 2001 and 2002, Thaksin balanced the national budget, producing comfortable

fiscal surpluses for 2003 to 2005. Despite a massive program of infrastructure investments, a balanced budget was projected for 2007.

§ Public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP in January 2001 to 41 per cent in September 2006.

§ Foreign exchange reserves doubled from US$30 billion in 2001 to US$64 billion in 2006.

§ Thaksin's 30-baht/visit universal healthcare program won the applause of the general public. Prior

to the program's introduction, a large portion of the population had no health

insurance and only limited access to healthcare. The program helped increase

access to healthcare from 76% of the population to 96%.

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

§ The Thaksin era also saw the opening of a number of government one-stop service centers to reduce red tape for anything from investment to utilities and ID-card processing.

§ After more than 30 years of planning and debate, the Thaksin government finally completed the

construction of the new Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

Actually what is remarkable about the period of 2001-2006 which was a period of growth and recovery for Thailand and other countries in the region (see eg Malaysia) is that Thaksin instead of building upon the regional growth opportunities turned the Thailand story into one of accelerated corruption and self-aggrandisement. In short his policies held back Thailand and continue to do so today. The suggestion that educated people might not support Thaksin has been disproved on one level with the craven support of a layer of academics from the Thai education system, but then one shouldn't be surprised at this. From being a hope for the future to money laundering is a story that has echoes also in Philippines with the Marcos family. The redshirts and cringing falangs may be excited by the story being peddled of Thaksin leading some type of class struggle but the NE landowners know different. Thaksin is their boy and the message has dirty hands.

Actually, Transparency International’s CPI and the World Bank’s Control of Corruption indicators both show that corruption has fallen under Thaksin.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2006/09/just_how_corrupt_was_thaksin.html

[Rich teacher]

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

As there is no cure for HIV/Aids, I can only assume those infected died, or possibly emigrated. Perhaps this was because the B30 health care scheme was unfunded, and hospitals close to insolvency could no longer supply their medication?

Those of us with a modicum of intelligence realise it was because of a fall in the rate of new infections. Duh!

[OzMick]

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

As there is no cure for HIV/Aids, I can only assume those infected died, or possibly emigrated. Perhaps this was because the B30 health care scheme was unfunded, and hospitals close to insolvency could no longer supply their medication?

Those of us with a modicum of intelligence realise it was because of a fall in the rate of new infections. Duh!

I accept your claim to a modicum of intelligence, those with more can see that there are 2 ways to achieve a drop in prevalence. Those infected can die at the same rate while infection rates fall due to better prevention education, OR those infected can die faster. As I pointed out, with many hospitals facing insolvency, the latter is a strong possibility and the only one that Thaksin could be honestly said to have caused.

It's a bit like claiming he reduced the number of drug users by ordering them shot.

[Noistar]

Jayboy: "If you wish to be taken seriously you will will need to present your case more convincingly.I take it your general line is that the current Thai political conflict is in essence "all about Thaksin" and that the underlying political and social divisions are of minor or secondary significance"

The latter is being hijacked because of the former.... that is the most salient point. The poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand have real grievances about their situation and how they are treated by the elite, powerful and wealthy. Unfortunately they have been duped into believing that one group of the elite, powerful and wealthy will help their plight, the reality is that group is only interested in increasing its power and wealth over the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population of Thailand. When there are a group of politicians and government authorities who actually do stand up for the whole country and the whole people for the betterment of both and all there might be change for the better, but don't hold your breath, there is too much money and power swilling around to bring out any honest people, and even honest people are duped into believing some ridiculous fantasies, on all sides of politics.

We are in a process of change, changing from one elite power base to another, the real struggle at hand is between those power groups and the pawns in this are of course the poor, disenfranchised, landless, rural and general population. Good luck with that!

IMHO - spot on!

[Rich teacher]

§ During the Thaksin government, the number of people living with HIV/AIDS as well as the overall prevalence rate noticeably declined.

As there is no cure for HIV/Aids, I can only assume those infected died, or possibly emigrated. Perhaps this was because the B30 health care scheme was unfunded, and hospitals close to insolvency could no longer supply their medication?

Those of us with a modicum of intelligence realise it was because of a fall in the rate of new infections. Duh!

I accept your claim to a modicum of intelligence, those with more can see that there are 2 ways to achieve a drop in prevalence. Those infected can die at the same rate while infection rates fall due to better prevention education, OR those infected can die faster. As I pointed out, with many hospitals facing insolvency, the latter is a strong possibility and the only one that Thaksin could be honestly said to have caused.

It's a bit like claiming he reduced the number of drug users by ordering them shot.

You should put that shovel away!

[bigbamboo]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

[yoshiwara]

Actually, Transparency International’s CPI and the World Bank’s Control of Corruption indicators both show that corruption has fallen under Thaksin.[/size]

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2006/09/just_how_corrupt_was_thaksin.html

...but obviously not corruption by Thaksin which is what this story is about. The lengths to which Thaksin's apologists go to bury that for which he was guilty. If the argument was about policies then Yingluck can continue unhindered. But it isn't is it? And how the World Bank is able to quantify political corruption by Thaksin is not stated. Usually the data refers to corruption doing business. One doubts that Thaksin's red-handed attempts to buy off the judiciary is included not that you wouldn't make an additional attempt to move the goal posts if that were the case. The thing is that here we don't even have the smblance of an effort to suggest it is not about Thaksin. It is. There is a long history of fellow-travelling westerners supinely cheerleading nasty little wannabe dictators. You won't be the last.

[yoshiwara]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

It would help if you could remember what you said;

'To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom.'

The issue re Thailand Vs The Others is not a general corruption index but what you said re countries being run 'as a criminal's personal fiefdom'. So not Vietnam. The only clear example Philippines with the Marcos family. They set the standard. Not sure if Yingluck has a shoes problem though.

[bigbamboo]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

It would help if you could remember what you said;

'To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom.'

The issue re Thailand Vs The Others is not a general corruption index but what you said re countries being run 'as a criminal's personal fiefdom'. So not Vietnam. The only clear example Philippines with the Marcos family. They set the standard. Not sure if Yingluck has a shoes problem though.

Well there's Suharto (Indonesia), Marcos and Estrada (Philippines). Hun Sen (Cambodia) Than Shwe (Myanmar) and our very own Mr T to be going on with.

[yoshiwara]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

It would help if you could remember what you said;

'To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom.'

The issue re Thailand Vs The Others is not a general corruption index but what you said re countries being run 'as a criminal's personal fiefdom'. So not Vietnam. The only clear example Philippines with the Marcos family. They set the standard. Not sure if Yingluck has a shoes problem though.

Well there's Suharto (Indonesia), Marcos and Estrada (Philippines). Hun Sen (Cambodia) Than Shwe (Myanmar) and our very own Mr T to be going on with.

Nothing on Vietnam then. Care to cross it off your list?

[bigbamboo]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

It would help if you could remember what you said;

'To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom.'

The issue re Thailand Vs The Others is not a general corruption index but what you said re countries being run 'as a criminal's personal fiefdom'. So not Vietnam. The only clear example Philippines with the Marcos family. They set the standard. Not sure if Yingluck has a shoes problem though.

Well there's Suharto (Indonesia), Marcos and Estrada (Philippines). Hun Sen (Cambodia) Than Shwe (Myanmar) and our very own Mr T to be going on with.

Nothing on Vietnam then. Care to cross it off your list?

Corruption starts at the top but I agree it is difficult to nail any individual down.

A bit like Thaksin I guess!

[yoshiwara]

Nothing on Vietnam then. Care to cross it off your list?

Corruption starts at the top but I agree it is difficult to nail any individual down.

A bit like Thaksin I guess!

Your specification was clear and your listing inappropriate. Not difficult at all unless you want to wriggle. Thaksin as with the Marcos Family it is a slam dunk. Edited May 24, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Emdog]

"Nonsense posts and replies have been removed." Thank goodness don't see that too often.... think of the space freed up!

My take is that Taksin is corrupt, as is true of his opposition. Saying a politician is corrupt (and being shocked/surprised) is like being upset finding prostitutes in a brothel. Just different power blocs scrambling to see who gets to fleece the country.

[hellodolly]

Yoshiwara..... you mention Vietnam, a country that has a higher corruption index than Thailand But don't let the facts get in the way of your perspective.

As for Mr T, nothing can whitewash the man's record when it comes to corruption.... no matter how many judges he bribes.

It would help if you could remember what you said;

'To be fair Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar have all had their fair share of being run as a criminal's personal fiefdom.'

The issue re Thailand Vs The Others is not a general corruption index but what you said re countries being run 'as a criminal's personal fiefdom'. So not Vietnam. The only clear example Philippines with the Marcos family. They set the standard. Not sure if Yingluck has a shoes problem though.

Depends on the nuimber of shoe stores in the Mall she is in.

[bigbamboo]

"Nonsense posts and replies have been removed." Thank goodness don't see that too often.... think of the space freed up! My take is that Taksin is corrupt, as is true of his opposition. Saying a politician is corrupt (and being shocked/surprised) is like being upset finding prostitutes in a brothel. Just different power blocs scrambling to see who gets to fleece the country.

Except in Vietnam...... apparently.

[yoshiwara]

"Nonsense posts and replies have been removed." Thank goodness don't see that too often.... think of the space freed up! My take is that Taksin is corrupt, as is true of his opposition. Saying a politician is corrupt (and being shocked/surprised) is like being upset finding prostitutes in a brothel. Just different power blocs scrambling to see who gets to fleece the country.

Except in Vietnam...... apparently.

No, let us go back yet again (and again, isn't this fun?), to your criteria, which is not purely about corruption but about a country being run as a personal fiefdom. Once more you are trying to move the goalposts to get Thaksin off the hook. Vietnam not a personal fiefdom. Nor is Laos. Your attempts to compare and shrink Thaksin's significance as being no worse than the others is mangled and you might be better advised to try a different tack for a change. Edited May 26, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Emdog]

My intent was not to get Taksin off the hook. My view is they are all corrupt, pot calling the kettle black sort of thing. My view is not mangled, btw. I have been here long enough and seen enough to know the structure and goals of politics in Thailand, or as well as an outsider can know.....