German Gang Leader Escapes Interpol At Suvarnabhumi Airport

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

A prisoner slipping out of the Thailand-run airport through an unsecured fire exit (or one that he was able to manually disable) without setting off any alarm and without passing through Thai Immigration "is nothing at all to do with Thais"?????

Really???

[pedro01]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

A prisoner slipping out of the Thailand-run airport through an unsecured fire exit (or one that he was able to manually disable) without setting off any alarm and without passing through Thai Immigration "is nothing at all to do with Thais"?????

Really???

Yes - it was obviously an outside job...

[creekside]

He got out of the airport undetected. Great....

Dressed like this:

and he went out through this un-alarmed door in Concourse G:

[Thai at Heart]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

He got out of the airport undetected. Great....

Fair point.

Bruce and Mick lost the German, Somchai and Sombat's incompetence let him escape.

The story says it was at 4.30 am. If I remember, 90% of the staff clock off at midnight.

[Nisa]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

A prisoner slipping out of the Thailand-run airport through an unsecured fire exit (or one that he was able to manually disable) without setting off any alarm and without passing through Thai Immigration "is nothing at all to do with Thais"?????

Really???

You act as though an airport is a prison. They didn't even know this guy was a prisoner. Airports are designed for people to come and go and yes there are checks but they are not designed to the same standards of maximum security prisons were people happen to also escape from all over the world. If somebody has the know how they can come and go in any airport in the world avoiding security. There are constant news reports of innocent people being found in places they shouldn't be in airports and even on airplanes. Yes it is a mistake but doesn't come close to the screw up by the Australian Security officers. Trying to make this a Thai issue is akin to blaming the door manufacturer. 98% of the blame is on the security folks who fell asleep and didn't alert Thai authorities of a prisoner in transit.

This guy is a professional thief and clearly skilled at disarming alarms. Why not blame Germany and Australia because they both allowed him to commit crimes in their country where he probably disabled alarms too in order to get in and out of secure places.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Nisa

[lomatopo]

He also could have followed an employee through a card-swiped/secure door, or assuming he had his passport, come through Immigration, and gotten stamped in to 30 days.

I think the deportation - extradition point does need to be clarified. It almost reads, in the Australian press, as though he served his time and was being deported. But maybe the authorities in Germany were awaiting his arrival, to arrest and try him for criminal offenses there?

Employees at the airport probably have quite a few airside (int'l) - tarmac/landside "secure/fire" doors (dis-)enabled to streamline their day-to-day duties.

Edited May 28, 2013 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The difference is... no one from the Australian side is arguing they didn't screw up... They clearly did, so there's no debate about that.

On the other hand, the Thai authorities initially insisted they were blameless in this. They clearly weren't. They may not have been primarily responsible for this guy escaping. but they clearly are responsible for not operating a secure airport, which is what they are legally required to do.

If this guy can land in BKK and manage enter the country by totally evading Thai Immigration, then presumably so can any variety of other bad players who neither the Thai authorities nor most of us would want staying here in the country. That's where the locals failed to meet their responsibility.

Edited May 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[maddas]

another stuff up by serco, they continually cop fines for shoddy work here in oz

[OzMick]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

A prisoner slipping out of the Thailand-run airport through an unsecured fire exit (or one that he was able to manually disable) without setting off any alarm and without passing through Thai Immigration "is nothing at all to do with Thais"?????

Really???

You act as though an airport is a prison. They didn't even know this guy was a prisoner. Airports are designed for people to come and go and yes there are checks but they are not designed to the same standards of maximum security prisons were people happen to also escape from all over the world. If somebody has the know how they can come and go in any airport in the world avoiding security. There are constant news reports of innocent people being found in places they shouldn't be in airports and even on airplanes. Yes it is a mistake but doesn't come close to the screw up by the Australian Security officers. Trying to make this a Thai issue is akin to blaming the door manufacturer. 98% of the blame is on the security folks who fell asleep and didn't alert Thai authorities of a prisoner in transit.

This guy is a professional thief and clearly skilled at disarming alarms. Why not blame Germany and Australia because they both allowed him to commit crimes in their country where he probably disabled alarms too in order to get in and out of secure places.

Oh please! He managed to move from the transit lounge into the country by-passing customs and immigration, which is a major security breach in any airport. Try at Sydney, Heathrow or JFK and you'd be arrested before you got 20 yards.

And what sort of security door has the alarm on the secured side to be disabled even by a "professional thief"? Transit lounges are secured to keep people IN, the alarms are on the outside of the door.

The concept that Thai authorities should have informed that a prisoner was transitting is BS. Do other criminals, smugglers, illegal immigrants, whatever, give prior notice they are coming? Or are the security systems there to prevent illegal entry, or not, in this case?

[Nisa]

The difference is... no one from the Australian side is arguing they didn't screw up... They clearly did, so there's no debate about that.

On the other hand, the Thai authorities initially insisted they were blameless in this. They clearly weren't. They may not have been primarily responsible for this guy escaping. but they clearly are responsible for not operating a secure airport, which is what they are legally required to do.

If this guy can land in BKK and manage enter the country by totally evading Thai Immigration, then presumably so can any variety of other bad players who neither the Thai authorities nor most of us would want staying here in the country. That's where the locals failed to meet their responsibility.

I have seen no claims by Thais saying they did nothing wrong and in fact the second line in this OP clearly states they are meeting to see where security broke down.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have seen no claims by Thais saying they did nothing wrong and in fact the second line in this OP clearly states they are meeting to see where security broke down.

So then you're agreeing and conceding that their security broke down??? Which it clearly did...

As for the Thais' representations about all of this:

According to deputy commander of the Immigration Bureau Pol Maj Gen Preecha Thimamontree, the suspect was able to escape in the transit area, which is outside the bureau's jurisdiction,

The AoT has refused to accept responsibility for the man's escape.

An AoT source said the escape had damaged its reputation and prompted it to step up measures to prevent other such incidents.

But the main point remains:

The Thai authorities are responsible for operating a secure international airport. And this episode clearly shows Suvarnabhumi isn't secure.

Edited May 28, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Baerboxer]

Article in the Sydney Morning Herald gives a bit more info about it .http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-guards-slept-as-criminal-fled-20130528-2n8gv.html

Thank you for posting this link. It reads as though this was a deportation from Australia. It does not mention if there was any extradtion requests from Germany. Presumably not, which would explain why the German police did not collect him, or arrange a handover. This is also supported by the report that it was organized by the immigration department who used Serco guards. There is no mention of the AFP, Interpol or German police being directly involved. Strange if there were outstanding German warrants?

I've seen people deported from the UK (not extradited). If they are not deemed dangerous or a threat they are escorted to the departure lounge by immigration and put on the plane. Once boarded they are on their own. It's up to the receiving country to decide how to handle the receipt. I've also seen armed police board a plane in the UK before disembarking allowed to take off a couple of Brits who had been deported back. There doesn't seem any real standard process - all depends in the circumstances and what's arranged and who tell's who what.

If this was a deportation the Aussies probably didn't feel the need to tell the RTP. If the flight to Germany had not been delayed then maybe no chance to escape. Were the Serco guards taking him all the way to Germany? Or just making sure he got on that flight and then returning to Oz? Why weren't the German police interested - "you deport him and sending back, we'll be waitng" doesn't sound particularly bothered.

AOT have there own security guards, plus there are RTP and tourist police stations at the airport, in addition to the immigration police. However, this guy new what he was doing, looked around and found an opportunity. Airports should be secure, but look at reports at breaches of security at other international airports. Some European ones are a joke.

[Nisa]

\

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

A prisoner slipping out of the Thailand-run airport through an unsecured fire exit (or one that he was able to manually disable) without setting off any alarm and without passing through Thai Immigration "is nothing at all to do with Thais"?????

Really???

You act as though an airport is a prison. They didn't even know this guy was a prisoner. Airports are designed for people to come and go and yes there are checks but they are not designed to the same standards of maximum security prisons were people happen to also escape from all over the world. If somebody has the know how they can come and go in any airport in the world avoiding security. There are constant news reports of innocent people being found in places they shouldn't be in airports and even on airplanes. Yes it is a mistake but doesn't come close to the screw up by the Australian Security officers. Trying to make this a Thai issue is akin to blaming the door manufacturer. 98% of the blame is on the security folks who fell asleep and didn't alert Thai authorities of a prisoner in transit.

This guy is a professional thief and clearly skilled at disarming alarms. Why not blame Germany and Australia because they both allowed him to commit crimes in their country where he probably disabled alarms too in order to get in and out of secure places.

Oh please! He managed to move from the transit lounge into the country by-passing customs and immigration, which is a major security breach in any airport. Try at Sydney, Heathrow or JFK and you'd be arrested before you got 20 yards.

And what sort of security door has the alarm on the secured side to be disabled even by a "professional thief"? Transit lounges are secured to keep people IN, the alarms are on the outside of the door.

The concept that Thai authorities should have informed that a prisoner was transitting is BS. Do other criminals, smugglers, illegal immigrants, whatever, give prior notice they are coming? Or are the security systems there to prevent illegal entry, or not, in this case?

Really? At Heathrow they can't even seem to keep prisoners from escaping from the jail cell at the airport http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205204/Migrant-rapes-woman-twice-escaping-Heathrow-cell.html

A simple Google Search will show you numerous security breaches at just about any major airport. There is no airport which can prevent such happening or even stop weapons from going on planes and they can only try to limit and discourage it ... unless of course you want Airports to operate as prisons instead of as places designed to process hundreds of thousands of travelers daily as quickly as reasonably possible.

[Trembly]

Article in the Sydney Morning Herald gives a bit more info about it .http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-guards-slept-as-criminal-fled-20130528-2n8gv.html

Thank you for posting this link. It reads as though this was a deportation from Australia. It does not mention if there was any extradtion requests from Germany. Presumably not, which would explain why the German police did not collect him, or arrange a handover. This is also supported by the report that it was organized by the immigration department who used Serco guards. There is no mention of the AFP, Interpol or German police being directly involved. Strange if there were outstanding German warrants?

I've seen people deported from the UK (not extradited). If they are not deemed dangerous or a threat they are escorted to the departure lounge by immigration and put on the plane. Once boarded they are on their own. It's up to the receiving country to decide how to handle the receipt. I've also seen armed police board a plane in the UK before disembarking allowed to take off a couple of Brits who had been deported back. There doesn't seem any real standard process - all depends in the circumstances and what's arranged and who tell's who what.

If this was a deportation the Aussies probably didn't feel the need to tell the RTP. If the flight to Germany had not been delayed then maybe no chance to escape. Were the Serco guards taking him all the way to Germany? Or just making sure he got on that flight and then returning to Oz? Why weren't the German police interested - "you deport him and sending back, we'll be waitng" doesn't sound particularly bothered.

AOT have there own security guards, plus there are RTP and tourist police stations at the airport, in addition to the immigration police. However, this guy new what he was doing, looked around and found an opportunity. Airports should be secure, but look at reports at breaches of security at other international airports. Some European ones are a joke.

I know hindsight is 20-20 and I've never done the job of escorting prisoners before, but thinking about it, it probably would have made sense for the Serco guards to inform the RTP on their own initiative anyway. If they were lucky Suvarnabhumi Police Station may have been able to spare an officer or two to accompany proceedings and maybe even lend them a cell.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Trembly

[Nisa]

People should realize that no airport is secure and priorities are about preventing dangerous people and weapons from going onto planes and not immigration but the bottom line is no airport can even guarantee a bomb is not brought on a plane even though this is one of their highest priorities. If people want to enter a country without papers and going through immigration, there are much easier ways to do it then going through an airport.

Security at airports is designed to limit instances of breaches. There is no way to make them not happen unless passengers are willing to undergo cavity searches and be shackled and escorted their entire time ... and even then there is no guarantee.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Nisa

[chrisinth]

Article in the Sydney Morning Herald gives a bit more info about it .http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-guards-slept-as-criminal-fled-20130528-2n8gv.html

Thank you for posting this link. It reads as though this was a deportation from Australia. It does not mention if there was any extradtion requests from Germany. Presumably not, which would explain why the German police did not collect him, or arrange a handover. This is also supported by the report that it was organized by the immigration department who used Serco guards. There is no mention of the AFP, Interpol or German police being directly involved. Strange if there were outstanding German warrants?

I've seen people deported from the UK (not extradited). If they are not deemed dangerous or a threat they are escorted to the departure lounge by immigration and put on the plane. Once boarded they are on their own. It's up to the receiving country to decide how to handle the receipt. I've also seen armed police board a plane in the UK before disembarking allowed to take off a couple of Brits who had been deported back. There doesn't seem any real standard process - all depends in the circumstances and what's arranged and who tell's who what.

If this was a deportation the Aussies probably didn't feel the need to tell the RTP. If the flight to Germany had not been delayed then maybe no chance to escape. Were the Serco guards taking him all the way to Germany? Or just making sure he got on that flight and then returning to Oz? Why weren't the German police interested - "you deport him and sending back, we'll be waitng" doesn't sound particularly bothered.

AOT have there own security guards, plus there are RTP and tourist police stations at the airport, in addition to the immigration police. However, this guy new what he was doing, looked around and found an opportunity. Airports should be secure, but look at reports at breaches of security at other international airports. Some European ones are a joke.

Is it normal for people being deported from Australia to be escorted on the flight by two escorts?

Just asking (as I don't know)

[creekside]

Employees at the airport probably have quite a few airside (int'l) - tarmac/landside "secure/fire" doors (dis-)enabled to streamline their day-to-day duties.

That's how it was initially being reported in the Thai press; that for some reason the electricity to the alarmed fire exit had been disconnected. "streamlining" the airport workers duties would fit perfectly with that.

It was only later that the story switched to this crafty German disabled the alarm himself.

[creekside]

I have seen no claims by Thais saying they did nothing wrong

Post 82

[ginjag]

Who was actually responsible for this ??? Looks to me like a host of different bodies, so we can shift blame to whoever we want as the mood takes. We have to look at airport security as a whole, no quick fixes ever.

Simple example, NO sharp objects to be taken aboard the aircraft as they could be used to attack or Hi-jack etc. Food is then served with stainless steel KNIVES. FFSake, We need to be and feel safe, but have to follow rules.

[Bagwan]

It was 2 Australian SERCO security personnel, and nothing at all to do with Thais.

So, all you knee-jerk, Thai-bashing, xenophobic fools can feel free to apologize about now.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain why there is a 10K reward for his capture if no blame attaches to Thai personnel? Do you think that Thai authorities dish out dosh for no good reason?

If this crim is apprehended in LOS I look forward to pictures of top cops with the cap brims resplendent with scrambled egg taking yet another photo opportunity. Maybe even Chalerm will put in an appearance.

[Nisa]

Who was actually responsible for this ??? Looks to me like a host of different bodies, so we can shift blame to whoever we want as the mood takes. We have to look at airport security as a whole, no quick fixes ever.

Simple example, NO sharp objects to be taken aboard the aircraft as they could be used to attack or Hi-jack etc. Food is then served with stainless steel KNIVES. FFSake, We need to be and feel safe, but have to follow rules.

While you are right in your point, I don't think butter knives with round blades were ever banned items. But the fact is that airport security is mainly about making people feel safe and lowering risks. There is absolutely no way you can have security without placing extraordinary burden on travelers ... much more that taking off shoes & belts or scanning your laptop separately.

Does anybody really believe nobody thought about hiding something in shoes prior to the shoe bomber? Of course not but the response of taking off shoes was to make the public feel safer. Anybody wanting to bring a bomb or weapon on a plane can do so easily ... no current detector in use at airports sniffs or sees up somebody's anus.

As for sneaking into the country without going through immigration ... this is not a major security point of airports since people enter countries illegally in droves outside the airport. Anybody who can pick a lock or disable an alarm on a door or defeat a keypad security door can get out of just about any airport if luck is with them and nobody happens to be monitoring that door which is likely the case most of the time ... and why they are alarmed or locked.

On the other hand ... arriving at an airport with a prisoner and making no security at the airport aware of this and then falling asleep and letting the prisoner walk away would be a gross security failure if true.

[creekside]

I have seen no claims by Thais saying they did nothing wrong

Post 82

You mean the the quote without a link that says ...

The AoT has refused to accept responsibility for the man's escape.

But doesn't include the following line from the article and disregards the fact that they have increased security since the incident and are meeting to investigate the incident and that they clearly state that he disarmed the alarm on a emergency exit door to escape after walking away from the sleeping Aussie tasked with escorting him who also failed to tell airport security they would be transiting with a prisoner.

Here is the next line from the news story ...

The agency said a probe was being conducted to find out who is to blame for the embarrassment.

By the way, I so see OZ officials now are saying the guards were not asleep but give no details on how the guy managed to escape them. I suppose if video contradicts these claims then they may say they were just resting their eyes. See: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/352213/austalia-confirms-german-escape-from-suvarnabhumi

Nisa, if you want to play the role of apologist for the airport and immigration authorities, go right ahead...

But clearly, there's a difference between officials accepting or not accepting any responsibility for something vs. dealing with the aftermath of a mess.

The details of what happened here keep changing and shifting with each new report, so it's hard to tell just who did what with whom. And suffice to say, anything coming out in the Thai media is likely to be self-serving, as it would be, since the Thai authorities are going to be the sources.

But from the outset, the Thai authorities have done everything to point the blame everywhere else, and to accept none of it for themselves.

Interpol was escorting the guy. We weren't told. Immigration isn't responsible for that area, etc etc etc...

I'm not saying or suggesting that the Thai authorities are mainly responsible for what occurred. But clearly they're partly responsible.

At the end of the day, a criminal slipped out of an international airport run by the Thai authorities in a way that's not supposed to happen. The fact that they're now trying to plug the holes in their leaky sieve doesn't mean they haven't tried to deflect any blame at every opportunity.

Thank you for your responding before i had a chance to. You said a lot of the same points i was going to.

I would add that to answer the apologist's query on the source of the link, it is, as posted, the OP of the thread he is posting in.

The story is constantly evolving, but the first thing out of AoT is that they played no role in the escape. This has been shown to be bogus.

It was a breakdown of varying responsibilities by different entities, including AoT. That they are now looking into it, after 13 days, doesn't negate the shortcomings on the 15th, but hopefully, it will help improve on the present errors.