Eea Family Permit

[ConnectionNotGuaranteed]

I wonder if someone could help please. I don't want to apply and get refused because of a technicality or something like that. Here are the facts:-

I am a British and Irish citizen, holding both passports.

My wife (Thai) entered the UK in 2005 on a settlement visa using my UK passport.

Before her 2 years were up on the settlement visa, they changed the rules and introduced the LITUK Test. My wife hadn't been learning English enough to pass the test. Therefore we did a switch utilising my Irish-ness.

My Wife was then granted a EEA Family Permit (5 Years) with permission to work.

We have since had a daughter (born in the UK) but also due to my work we moved abroad in 2008 (outside EU). Her EEA Permit expired in 2012 but we want to go back to the UK on holiday to visit friends and family.

Is it possible to get another EEA Family Permit to just visit the UK on holiday, using my EU citizenship (Irish) or do I have to apply for a routine Visa.

Don't know if it makes any difference but I still have properties and savings etc in the UK and my wife has a National Insurance number.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited June 3, 2013 by ConnectionNotGuaranteed

[Arkady]

Since the UK is not part of the Schengen area, I don't think there are any privileges for family members of other EEA countries applying for visit visas. Given your employment circumstances and your wife's record of living in the UK, I think she should have no problem applying for a visit visa. If you have family in the UK, she can apply for a family visit which is the same as an ordinary visit visa, except that you have the right to appeal, if rejected. Probably best to show your Irish passport to be consistent with her previous visa.

[7by7]

The McCarthy judgement means that non EEA family members of someone who holds two EEA nationalities can no longer use the EEA freedom of movement rules to enter one of the countries of which their EEA family member is a national unless the EEA national has at some time lived in the other one or otherwise previously exercised their freedom of movement rights to live in another EEA state or come under the provisions of the Surinder Singh ruling.

The UK implemented this on 16/7/2012.

See EUN2.16 Can family members of dual British / Irish nationals qualify for an EEA family permit?

Although the judgement and rule change are mainly concerned with residence, it does apply to visits as well.

So, the short answer is that she will need to apply for the appropriate UK visa unless you have at some time lived in the RoI or another EEA state other than the UK and can prove it.

Edited June 3, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

Arkady,

EEA freedom of movement rights apply equally to all EEA states, not just those in the Schengen area.

Also, since 1st June 2013 (last Saturday), UK family visit visas no longer have the right of appeal if refused.

Edited June 3, 2013 by 7by7

[ConnectionNotGuaranteed]

Many thanks for your replies 7by7 and Arkady.

It looks like I need to switch back to being British.

Are these the correct fees now http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/fees-2012.pdf

If so, blimey, they have shot up since 2005 when she first got her settlement Visa.

As for a Visit Visa, is the £80 fee the only fee I will need to pay? I read somewhere about having to give Biometric and finger printing. Is this an additional cost? We are only going for between 7 and 10 days and am wondering whether all this hassle and cost is worth it, especially for the weather in the UK in October.

[7by7]

Those are the current fees in Sterling; but visa application fees are paid in the local currency; i.e. Baht.

The current fee in Thailand for a visit visa is 3680 Baht.

But this fee is changed from time to time due to currency fluctuations, so before applying you should check Visa application fees and guides in Thailand.

There is no other compulsory charge made; biometrics etc. is covered by this fee.

However VFS, the company who run the UK Visa Application Centre, do offer other optional services, such as a courier return of passports, for which they charge; see their website.

You may find UK Visit Visa Basics helpful.

[bobrussell]

Don't forget that VFS only process the applications. They should not give advice or hand back documents they consider are not necessary!

They collate the information, do the biometrics - no more! Several people have reported inappropriate advice being offered!

The 'basics' link should tell you all you need to know for most applications!

[ConnectionNotGuaranteed]

Many thanks 7by7 and bob.

I suppose 80 quid ain't too much a price to pay for a week in the rain.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ConnectionNotGuaranteed

[Arkady]

Arkady,

EEA freedom of movement rights apply equally to all EEA states, not just those in the Schengen area.

Also, since 1st June 2013 (last Saturday), UK family visit visas no longer have the right of appeal if refused.

Thanks for the update 7by7. I knew UKBA was trying to get rid of this right but didn't know they had accomplished that already. Outrageous actually. Their argument, as far as I remember, was the cost of court proceedings and the high level of reversals of ECO decisions by the courts. They should have been told to stop ECOs from making so many unfair decisions, rather than be allowed to do this, which seems highly dictatorial.

One of my friends who is CEO of a multi national in Bangkok only got a visit visa for his Thai wife on appeal to the court in the UK. The ECO had objected to the fact that she worked in TV which the ECO said was "entertainment" and he or she obviously thought that was tantamount to prostitution. Having a relative who has done the ECO job before I know they are under a lot of time pressure, as well as pressure to maintain a rejection rate that is consistent with the norm to avoid being considered soft and that sometimes tips the balance against someone, if they hadn't done many rejections that morning. Everyone is human and the process is highly subjective which is why the great British justice system provided the avenue of appeal.

Oh well. So there is no longer any advantage for spouses of UK citizens in applying for visit visas at all. What a sorry state of affairs. Lucky Mrs Arkady has another 8 years to go on her 10 year visit visa.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Arkady

[theoldgit]

7by7, are you sure that the loss of appeal rights for family visit visas was abolished on 1 June?

The original date was scheduled to be on or after 25th June, in the statement the UKBA said they would announce the date on their website and alter the guidance, they seem to have done neither.

I am aware of a few people who are planning to submit before the original deadline.

I would be grateful if you could post a link to the revised abolition date.

Thanks.

[7by7]

You are right, OG, the UKBA still just say on or soon after 25th June; I pulled the date in my earlier post from memory, and got it wrong.

Apologies to all.

Sent from a stool in the corner wearing a pointy hat with a large 'D' on it!

[Seekingasylum]

The McCarthy judgement means that non EEA family members of someone who holds two EEA nationalities can no longer use the EEA freedom of movement rules to enter one of the countries of which their EEA family member is a national unless the EEA national has at some time lived in the other one or otherwise previously exercised their freedom of movement rights to live in another EEA state or come under the provisions of the Surinder Singh ruling.

The UK implemented this on 16/7/2012.

See EUN2.16 Can family members of dual British / Irish nationals qualify for an EEA family permit?

Although the judgement and rule change are mainly concerned with residence, it does apply to visits as well.

So, the short answer is that she will need to apply for the appropriate UK visa unless you have at some time lived in the RoI or another EEA state other than the UK and can prove it.

There is another, somewhat radical, solution you may wish to consider in that you could always renounce your British citizenship at the relatively modest expense of £229. This in practice will have no material effect upon your life in the UK should you wish to return there but will permit your wife henceforth unfettered rights to accompany or join you. Your children's status would remain unaffected.

Worth considering when one calculates the onerous burdens placed upon ordinary, decent British folk who have the effrontery to marry someone outside the EU and wish to settle in Britain.