Open Racism? Luk Kruengs Only Good Enough To Become Showstars?

[cyberholz]

Had a talk with a good friend who really knows something about Thailand as a headmaster of a well established international school.

What he's saying:

He doesn't know a single one of hundreds of luk kruengs who made it into a senior management position in Thailand.

Thais always choose, he says, Thai-Thai. Or then the farang.

The exception is the family business.

This kind of struck me as even plausible.

One would assume, however, that even this society is changing. Or not?

[Jingthing]

It's not very Thai to call open racism open racism.

[jayboy]

Your friend is talking silly nonsense.There are many lk in senior positions in all professions and walks of life in Thailand.

[chrisinth]

Did he follow his ex-pupils through university or are his observations based on when they leave his school?

[cyberholz]

Did he follow his ex-pupils through university or are his observations based on when they leave his school?

Based on contacts with previous pupils and a close look at senior managements in Thai companies that always give the Thai-Thai candidate the go-ahead -- "even with worse qualifications," as my friend says.

[CanInBKK]

What's the logic? Is it based on assumptions regarding parents (specifically the mother in most cases)?

[samran]

Certainly far from true or that racism is a factor, but there are reasons for the observations of a seeming under representation:

1)There is certainly nepotism in some firms - or where at least connections get a foot in the door. As a luk krung, I've certainly benefitied from this.So it works both ways. Most luuk krungs also probably don't come from families where they are going to be able to call in favours in the Thai corporate world.

2) Most, if not all, would probably want to nick off overseas and work there given they probably complete their education there. Thailand is great, and it works for me, but it isn't for everyone. Working for firms here can be stifling.

3) There aren't exactly a plethora of luuk krungs. We were only started to be of any noticeable demographic say in the late 80s and early 90s. The bulk being born during this time and continuing on into the present as mixed marriages become more common. So to be a cantidate for senior management, you'd have to be born in the late 60's or early 70's. And there weren't too many of us born then.

4) But I do know a few people from that cohort who are working in senior positions. They've worked their way up like everyone else but haven't expected any preference one way or another. I think businesses, where they can, would kill for a good balance of Thai and Western language skills and business experience. If they aren't being hired, it is either that they don't have these skills, or that their salary expectations are too high (which wouldn't suprise me for the rejections).

Signed

Your friendly neighbourhood luk krung.

ed: 5) Why wouldn't you want to become a movie star if you could? Easier life, much better money in most cases. Access to highly attractive members of the opposite sex!!

Edited June 6, 2013 by samran

[Briggsy]

OP may well be looking at the question the wrong way round.

The question should be, "How does anyone, black, white, or green with blue polka dots, get into a senior management position in Thailand?"

First you would differentiate between family firms (99% of which are Sino-Thai), large Thai firms, semi-monopolies including state enterprises, and foreign multinationals operating in Thailand.

Family firms are likely to keep it in the family.

Large Thai firms have a mould and most of senior management fit this mould. Degree and Master's Degree from heavy-hitting university, e.g. Chula, Thammasat, or other govt. uni. Great connections in the corporate world, political scene and govt. bureaucracy. These connections need to go deep and may well be rooted as far back as the mathayom school one attended. How many look khreungs have these kind of qualifications in Thailand and these kind of connections.

Multi-nationals have loads of look khreungs in management and responsible. positions. This is provided they have the requisite skills and qualifications. Many do not wear their racial mix on their sleeve and often it is not obvious, particularly if they have or use a Thai surname.

There are international schools here where many of the pupils attend just for fun and maybe go on to a degree mill private university like ABAC or Bangkok University. These people are not likely to get any senior management position anywhere not even Somalia. Perhaps this was the kind of school the OP was referring to in his post.

[MrWorldwide]

I thought the LK all grew up to be pop stars ? Don't need a management gig when you have your own Learjet

[cyberholz]

OP may well be looking at the question the wrong way round.

The question should be, "How does anyone, black, white, or green with blue polka dots, get into a senior management position in Thailand?"

First you would differentiate between family firms (99% of which are Sino-Thai), large Thai firms, semi-monopolies including state enterprises, and foreign multinationals operating in Thailand.

Family firms are likely to keep it in the family.

Large Thai firms have a mould and most of senior management fit this mould. Degree and Master's Degree from heavy-hitting university, e.g. Chula, Thammasat, or other govt. uni. Great connections in the corporate world, political scene and govt. bureaucracy. These connections need to go deep and may well be rooted as far back as the mathayom school one attended. How many look khreungs have these kind of qualifications in Thailand and these kind of connections.

Multi-nationals have loads of look khreungs in management and responsible. positions. This is provided they have the requisite skills and qualifications. Many do not wear their racial mix on their sleeve and often it is not obvious, particularly if they have or use a Thai surname.

There are international schools here where many of the pupils attend just for fun and maybe go on to a degree mill private university like ABAC or Bangkok University. These people are not likely to get any senior management position anywhere not even Somalia. Perhaps this was the kind of school the OP was referring to in his post.

You provide some excellent answers, thanks. Referring to your last point, no, not this kind of school. Even though, ABAC or Bangkok University don't have such a bad reputation. I know quite a few foreigners studying there, and they don't study there because they want to enjoy life in Thailand.

[cyberholz]

Certainly far from true or that racism is a factor, but there are reasons for the observations of a seeming under representation:

1)There is certainly nepotism in some firms - or where at least connections get a foot in the door. As a luk krung, I've certainly benefitied from this.So it works both ways. Most luuk krungs also probably don't come from families where they are going to be able to call in favours in the Thai corporate world.

2) Most, if not all, would probably want to nick off overseas and work there given they probably complete their education there. Thailand is great, and it works for me, but it isn't for everyone. Working for firms here can be stifling.

3) There aren't exactly a plethora of luuk krungs. We were only started to be of any noticeable demographic say in the late 80s and early 90s. The bulk being born during this time and continuing on into the present as mixed marriages become more common. So to be a cantidate for senior management, you'd have to be born in the late 60's or early 70's. And there weren't too many of us born then.

4) But I do know a few people from that cohort who are working in senior positions. They've worked their way up like everyone else but haven't expected any preference one way or another. I think businesses, where they can, would kill for a good balance of Thai and Western language skills and business experience. If they aren't being hired, it is either that they don't have these skills, or that their salary expectations are too high (which wouldn't suprise me for the rejections).

Signed

Your friendly neighbourhood luk krung.

ed: 5) Why wouldn't you want to become a movie star if you could? Easier life, much better money in most cases. Access to highly attractive members of the opposite sex!!

Thanks Samran, you say what I was thinking myself: it's a generation thing and the majority of luk kruengs are about to enter the system.

[krisb]

Only good enough to become a star is good enough by me!

[rookball]

being a celebrity isnt all fancy. i knew afew on friendship level, you would be surprised how much they are actually struggling. good salaries compared to the local but not alot. if when you think the usual office politics are giant pita, the ones in the circle of entertainment are a total horrific

[arthurwait]

being a celebrity isnt all fancy. i knew afew on friendship level, you would be surprised how much they are actually struggling. good salaries compared to the local but not alot. if when you think the usual office politics are giant pita, the ones in the circle of entertainment are a total horrific

Yep I don't think it pays that much. Was about to walk into a factory outlet mall when 2 superstars ( no idea who, but apparently they are a superstar couple) came out and went to their rather old Toyota.

[arthurwait]

Thailand is about good connections and most LK parents are vdery far from having those. Many positions are kept within the family anyway.

Just because one parents conmpany are paying or one parent is much better off than in their own country so can pay for international school doesn't mean the kid is intelligent or that the parents are intelligent enough to help. How many LK foreign father works abroad while the mother stays with them with a double figure IQ ?

As has been said the LK demographic is small the same as top positions, it's long odds the 2 will come together.

[mickjn]

Your friend is talking silly nonsense.There are many lk in senior positions in all professions and walks of life in Thailand.

And the ones I know are very highly regarded

[Familyonthemove]

I think with Thai or Sino-Thai companies the most important factor in landing a management position will be your parents. So if the father is a foreigner and the mother a non-working local - then you just wont have the necessary connections to get in to a Thai company.

But if we're looking at international businesses then I reckon someone with a good English (or Korean or Japanese) and good Thai and an international outlook with good education would be in demand. I went to a seminar (free lunch!) at a major international recruitment agency recently and they were talking about the next generation of senior managers being the kids of ex-pat workers with local partners and they are targeting the graduates who've come through the international school system in Thailand.

(I know I'm making a few assumptions here - but in general it's a foreign husband and local wife)

[samran]

Your friend is talking silly nonsense.There are many lk in senior positions in all professions and walks of life in Thailand.

And the ones I know are very highly regarded

Still, all this doesn't compute for those who like to think that in Thailand there is a bigot around every corner.

[sunlong]

Yes IMO not racial bigotry so much as not having the pre-requisite social status/connections etc.

Regarding social status, the mother of most LK wouldn't fly with most attending social events with the board of directors.

Although unfair prejudice, that's not racism that's something else.

Not a large enough sample size of large firms vs LK population to really be able to verify statistically anyway.

[samran]

Yes IMO not racial bigotry so much as not having the pre-requisite social status/connections etc.

Regarding social status, the mother of most LK wouldn't fly with most attending social events with the board of directors.

Although unfair prejudice, that's not racism that's something else.

Not a large enough sample size of large firms vs LK population to really be able to verify statistically anyway.

As my hair starts to grey, I'm taken more seriously. Funny that.

[jayboy]

It must also be said that the distribution of lk in a hierarchical society like Thailand is also matter of social class.Thus the children of foreigners and lower class Thais tend not to prosper in the way children of middle and upper class relationships often do.However nothing is fixed and lk children of whatever background can succeed these days.As always good education,good looks and charm can generally transcend an unpromising social background.

[mr3cho]

Certainly far from true or that racism is a factor, but there are reasons for the observations of a seeming under representation:

1)There is certainly nepotism in some firms - or where at least connections get a foot in the door. As a luk krung, I've certainly benefitied from this.So it works both ways. Most luuk krungs also probably don't come from families where they are going to be able to call in favours in the Thai corporate world.

2) Most, if not all, would probably want to nick off overseas and work there given they probably complete their education there. Thailand is great, and it works for me, but it isn't for everyone. Working for firms here can be stifling.

3) There aren't exactly a plethora of luuk krungs. We were only started to be of any noticeable demographic say in the late 80s and early 90s. The bulk being born during this time and continuing on into the present as mixed marriages become more common. So to be a cantidate for senior management, you'd have to be born in the late 60's or early 70's. And there weren't too many of us born then.

4) But I do know a few people from that cohort who are working in senior positions. They've worked their way up like everyone else but haven't expected any preference one way or another. I think businesses, where they can, would kill for a good balance of Thai and Western language skills and business experience. If they aren't being hired, it is either that they don't have these skills, or that their salary expectations are too high (which wouldn't suprise me for the rejections).

Signed

Your friendly neighbourhood luk krung.

ed: 5) Why wouldn't you want to become a movie star if you could? Easier life, much better money in most cases. Access to highly attractive members of the opposite sex!!

Best answer

[Berkshire]

Certainly far from true or that racism is a factor, but there are reasons for the observations of a seeming under representation:

1)There is certainly nepotism in some firms - or where at least connections get a foot in the door. As a luk krung, I've certainly benefitied from this.So it works both ways. Most luuk krungs also probably don't come from families where they are going to be able to call in favours in the Thai corporate world.

2) Most, if not all, would probably want to nick off overseas and work there given they probably complete their education there. Thailand is great, and it works for me, but it isn't for everyone. Working for firms here can be stifling.

3) There aren't exactly a plethora of luuk krungs. We were only started to be of any noticeable demographic say in the late 80s and early 90s. The bulk being born during this time and continuing on into the present as mixed marriages become more common. So to be a cantidate for senior management, you'd have to be born in the late 60's or early 70's. And there weren't too many of us born then.

4) But I do know a few people from that cohort who are working in senior positions. They've worked their way up like everyone else but haven't expected any preference one way or another. I think businesses, where they can, would kill for a good balance of Thai and Western language skills and business experience. If they aren't being hired, it is either that they don't have these skills, or that their salary expectations are too high (which wouldn't suprise me for the rejections).

Signed

Your friendly neighbourhood luk krung.

ed: 5) Why wouldn't you want to become a movie star if you could? Easier life, much better money in most cases. Access to highly attractive members of the opposite sex!!

As always, Samran, the voice of reason.

[samran]

It must also be said that the distribution of lk in a hierarchical society like Thailand is also matter of social class.Thus the children of foreigners and lower class Thais tend not to prosper in the way children of middle and upper class relationships often do.However nothing is fixed and lk children of whatever background can succeed these days.As always good education,good looks and charm can generally transcend an unpromising social background.

Networks and building them is essential. I remember years ago I was given a role which, while interesting enough, was more useful from the perspective of who I got to sit beside and work with.

I'll forever be grateful for that opportunity which was given to me.

[Kitsune]

I think it's sad to discriminate cute kids

[MrHammer]

It would help if when people make claims about business or politics in Thailand that they end their post with a little resume so that we can tell the barstool analysts from those with actual experence.

[Kitsune]

It would help if when people make claims about business or politics in Thailand that they end their post with a little resume so that we can tell the barstool analysts from those with actual experence.

So they can be analysed, dissecated and bashed by everyone ! yeah !