Immigration Extends Validity Of Income Verification Letter

[spectre324]

Robert please send me a copy of the letter from the american embassy. e mail is //removed-PM member//

[spectre324]

Moderator, I wish you would please bring this post back to Issan Forum. Many do not visit all the forums on TV and may miss this important information if they see it has been moved.

Thank you in advance.

Larry

please E mail me a copy of this for my records, need to take it to phibun. e mail is //removed-PM member//

Edited June 7, 2013 by Tywais
email removed as per forum rules

[spectre324]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

It is the Embassy letter to immigration used for extensions of stay when based on income from outside Thailand - the letter validity for use at an immigration office is up to six months from issue date. If older than six months immigration will likely not accept it.

A little more clarification for me please.

Are you saying the letters showing proof of income from the Embassies are good up to 6 months and If you don't use them with in that time span you have to get a new one from your Embassy?

Or

Do I need one every six months for my yearly extension on my retirement (or what ever it is called) Visa

I hate paper work it is not my forte.

every year when you renew your YEARLY visa Thai Immigration requires a letter from the embassy verifying your monthly income. this is the letter that larry is refering to! was good for only three weeks meaning that you had to have this letter no later than three weeks prior to renewing.

[Suradit69]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

It is the Embassy letter to immigration used for extensions of stay when based on income from outside Thailand - the letter validity for use at an immigration office is up to six months from issue date. If older than six months immigration will likely not accept it.

A little more clarification for me please.

Are you saying the letters showing proof of income from the Embassies are good up to 6 months and If you don't use them with in that time span you have to get a new one from your Embassy?

Or

Do I need one every six months for my yearly extension on my retirement (or what ever it is called) Visa

I hate paper work it is not my forte.

You only need one letter per year, but it needs to be less that six months old when you present it to Thai Immigrations.

[oneday]

Hi Larry Edmonds Im Tom OConnor from Pattaya!! Now Im Wondering when i get Another Letter in Jan Will Immagration take my oricinal copy of the Letter?

As long as it is not older that 6 months.

...and I take this to mean each local office can set any limit they want up to 6 months. It say it SHOULD not exceed 6 months. So 3 months or 2 months or 1 month does not exceed 6 months...good for some offices maybe. Would love to hear people experiencing the longer expiration leeway say in Jomtien. I was recently told 1 month. I'd love to know what answer they are giving now.

[SurfRider]

.

"I don't understand why so many of you are so concerned about just going to the embassy in Bangkok. If you have the income to deserve the retiree extension, you should be able to afford the trip once a year."

How could you be so short-sighted and inconsiderate? For many, it has nothing to do with being able to "afford" a trip to Bangkok. Some are handicapped and CAN'T travel - and why waste a day of your life on a trip to Bangkok when it's not necessary?

.

[lopburi3]

Easier to find and marry a Thai national and keep 20 grand in a fixed account year-round. Then once a year do your annual check.

For this to work I think you will find that you had to be married and on a extension of stay before 2008. Then you have grandfathered rights to that scheme, however if you were married and apply for an extension after 2008 I'm sure you will find that it has to be income and not money in the bank.

For Thai wife extension of stay you can use either 40k per month income or 400k in Thai bank account. There has not been any change since 2008 to this requirement and it is stated in police order 777/2551

[Frank James]

Finally, some good news re Immigration. Thanks Larry, and thanks, US State Dept.

[Cyclist]

Just curious if anybody knows, as I live in Nong Khai is it possible to get the embassy in Lao to verify my income? If so do I need a change the header on the form to read US embassy Lao? Thanks.

[lopburi3]

I have seen a report some time ago but would not expect immigration to accept if they notice as the reason for Embassy letter is that those authorized to sign are known and there signatures are on file with Thai authorities. Those from Laos would not be.

[lifeincnx]

Easier to find and marry a Thai national and keep 20 grand in a fixed account year-round. Then once a year do your annual check.

Not even near USD 20K ... just have 400k in a Thai bank account two months prior to your annual 'spousal' visa extension. Done.

[harrry]

.

"I don't understand why so many of you are so concerned about just going to the embassy in Bangkok. If you have the income to deserve the retiree extension, you should be able to afford the trip once a year."

How could you be so short-sighted and inconsiderate? For many, it has nothing to do with being able to "afford" a trip to Bangkok. Some are handicapped and CAN'T travel - and why waste a day of your life on a trip to Bangkok when it's not necessary?

.

Consider the problem of swomeone in a wheelchair and requiring constant oxygen..Consider the logistics needed. My last trip to Bangkok to gwet this letter cost me 20000baht and entailed considerable risk to my health.

[BuddyPinkham]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

Edited June 7, 2013 by BuddyPinkham

[Cyclist]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, I know people from many other countries that do the same thing. The only difference is most embassies want to see proof, the US embassies take your word for it.

[harrry]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

False many others do including Australia.

[SurfRider]

.

"This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality."

That statement is ABSOLUTELY not true.

Both the British and Australian Embassies provide income verification letters for their Expats (and probably many other countries also).

.

Edited June 7, 2013 by SurfRider

[retiredaamt]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

False many others do including Australia.

I have not had any dealings with the Bt800,000 requirement nor have I ever had Bt800,000 in a Thai bank. I have always used the Income Verification Letter to atest to the fact that I have a monthly income of Bt65,000 or more in leu of the Bt800,000. As far as I know the letter has nothing to do with the Bt800,000 in a bank requirement.

[OJAS]

.

"I don't understand why so many of you are so concerned about just going to the embassy in Bangkok. If you have the income to deserve the retiree extension, you should be able to afford the trip once a year."

How could you be so short-sighted and inconsiderate? For many, it has nothing to do with being able to "afford" a trip to Bangkok. Some are handicapped and CAN'T travel - and why waste a day of your life on a trip to Bangkok when it's not necessary?

.

Consider the problem of swomeone in a wheelchair and requiring constant oxygen..Consider the logistics needed. My last trip to Bangkok to gwet this letter cost me 20000baht and entailed considerable risk to my health.

This does seem to be a fundamental inequity with the affidavit system of issuing POI letters IMHO. Would not US Embassy staff be prepared to undertake personal visits to applicants who were not fit to travel to Bangkok for affidavit-swearing purposes - subject, presumably, to the provision of s suitable doctor's note confirming this?

Alternatively, might the Embassy be prepared, in exceptional cases, to issue a POI letter by post on the basis of documentary income evidence provided by the applicant, in line with the practice followed by my (UK) Embassy? Or does US law not allow this?

[lopburi3]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

Totally false information - you have choice of 65k income or 800k in bank or combination to meet 800k per year for retirement extensions of stay. If using income you require a letter of that income from your Embassy and new policy is that letter must be made within the last six months prior to TM.7 application. It has nothing to do with one Embassy using documents of income or another using legal statements of income and nothing to do with treaties of any kind.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Immigration's leadership is keen not to make things difficult for people to live in Thailand and they recognize that

many improvements could possibly be made that do not require changing the law.

This is one of the admin's posts above, apparently reciting a message from the U.S. Consulate.

Forgive me for saying so, but if Thai Immigration was so darned concerned about not making it difficult for people (non Thais) to stay in Thailand, then why the heck did they propose/issue a new rule that only would have given a two week validity period to consular income letters in the first place???.

Only to reverse course a month later and change the time period to 6 months after hearing concerns from the U.S. consulate and who knows who else.

Don't get me wrong. I think the 6 month validity period is a great improvement and convenience. But to be told that Thai Immigration, after enacting a two-week period, is so darned concerned about us farangs.... it's more than a bit grating!!!!

[SurfRider]

.
"This does seem to be a fundamental inequity with the affidavit system of issuing POI letters IMHO. Would not US Embassy staff be prepared to undertake personal visits to applicants who were not fit to travel to Bangkok for affidavit-swearing purposes"

Basically a good idea, but I'm sure the the US Embassy would claim that they have neither the staff nor the budget for such an undertaking.

The best they've been able to offer is outreach programs four times a year to several select outlying areas from Bangkok-- where a limited Embassy staff travels to those areas and provides minimal such services. These outreaches are VERY MUCH appreciated by US Expats.

The problem with the income letter process at the US Embassy is that they require that the letter be notarized - which means that the Expat has to personally sign the letter in the presence of an Embassy official. That requirement should be modified for handicapped people, but it is hardly likely that the US Embassy would do something like that, unfortunately
.

[OJAS]

Immigration's leadership is keen not to make things difficult for people to live in Thailand and they recognize that

many improvements could possibly be made that do not require changing the law.

This is one of the admin's posts above, apparently reciting a message from the U.S. Consulate.

Forgive me for saying so, but if Thai Immigration was so darned concerned about not making it difficult for people (non Thais) to stay in Thailand, then why the heck did they propose/issue a new rule that only would have given a two week validity period to consular income letters in the first place???.

Only to reverse course a month later and change the time period to 6 months after hearing concerns from the U.S. consulate and who knows who else.

Don't get me wrong. I think the 6 month validity period is a great improvement and convenience. But to be told that Thai Immigration, after enacting a two-week period, is so darned concerned about us farangs.... it's more than a bit grating!!!!

Probably has a lot to do with the Immigration Bureau's recent appointment of Basil Fawlty as a consultant adviser

[lounger]

6 months is of course excellent news However last year I got retirement visa extension on a letter 5months old from pattaya immig. The letter had been drafted by the Pattaya UK embassy annex.

so Im not sure what this latest news is. maybe US is coming into line, in which case it was nice to be ahead of them for a time!

[SurfRider]

.
With respect to the Thai Immigration income reporting requirement-- the heart of the problem lies directly with Thai Immigration.

Expats --particularly ones who have been here for years-- know very well how much money/income is required to live here. It should be none of Immigration's business how much income an Expat has, nor the size of their bank account. There should be NO REQUIREMENT for any Expat to report this personal and private information.

I lived in the Philippines a few years back. Their Immigration couldn't care less about the income or financial resources of any Expat living there. The Visa renewal process was so simple that all you had to do was to take your passport to a reputable travel agent once every 6 months - they would have a runner take it to the Immigration office to be stamped. Cost was only US$15 (460 Thai Baht) every 6 months. For $2 additional, they would deliver the passport to your residence.

I never stepped foot in an Immigration office and never even knew where it was located.

Best of luck with Thai Immigration ever becoming this considerate and accommodating with their Expats . . .

Edited June 7, 2013 by SurfRider

[DickFarang]

I don't understand why so many of you are so concerned about just going to the embassy in Bangkok. If you have the income to deserve the retiree extension, you should be able to afford the trip once a year.

Belgian citizens need not go to the Belgian Consulate in person.

It suffices to send a completed affidavit by recorded delivery together with the proof of the income, a consular fee (THB 600) and the EMS expenses (THB 40).

The duly signed and stamped affidavit is returned by the Belgian Consulate within a couple of days.

Certificate pension.doc

[retiredaamt]

.

"This does seem to be a fundamental inequity with the affidavit system of issuing POI letters IMHO. Would not US Embassy staff be prepared to undertake personal visits to applicants who were not fit to travel to Bangkok for affidavit-swearing purposes"

Basically a good idea, but I'm sure the the US Embassy would claim that they have neither the staff nor the budget for such an undertaking.

The best they've been able to offer is outreach programs four times a year to several select outlying areas from Bangkok-- where a limited Embassy staff travels to those areas and provides minimal such services. These outreaches are VERY MUCH appreciated by US Expats.

The problem with the income letter process at the US Embassy is that they require that the letter be notarized - which means that the Expat has to personally sign the letter in the presence of an Embassy official. That requirement should be modified for handicapped people, but it is hardly likely that the US Embassy would do something like that, unfortunately

.

The outreach program is a great idea, but even great ideas have their problems. Why not have Honorary Embassy Wardens in each region or province. These wardens would be trained and qualified in the notary process and could also help the embassy with other matters that now require a trip to Bangkok or Chiang Mai. The honorary wardens could notorize documents and collect the State Department fees of course. This would be at no expense to the Embassy other than supplying the seal, office supplies and the necessary training for the wardens. This would save them the expense of transportation, lodging and food. It would be a lot easier and less expensive for the expat to drive a couple hours than to fly to Bangkok or Chiang Mai. I for one would be willing to step forward and volunteer for the duty. This will be one of the topics I will present to the Annual Wardens Conference in September in Bangkok.

[Nowhereman60]

I never read so many post from people that live here and do not understand the rules for living here. What the hell is wrong with you people.

[Ken]

I never read so many post from people that live here and do not understand the rules for living here. What the hell is wrong with you people.

+1

[pmarlin]

Is it OK to ask for a little bit of help here plse. I am not a native english speaker, so som clraification would be great.

By this talk of letters and validation. Does that mean what the americans bring to their embassy in order to have a certificate of their income???

This has nothing to do with the immigration in Thailand I presume? I mean a special law for only americans. This must be something internal for americans with their own embassy?

I would be happy if somebody could help clarify for a "falang"....

Glegolo

The United States is the only country that Thailand accepts an affidavit of monthly income for expats living here. While expats from other countries my show proof of 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. This change does not affect anyone that is not USA Nationality. Meaning, I can go to the US Embassy, with the appropriate affidavit form and just state that I receive $$$$$$ amount of money, swear to it and it is notarized by a consoler there, with no proof of 800,000bt in a Thai bank account. This is done by a treaty signed by Thailand and the United States of America.

Just not true, several other countries use the same method, For example Australia. Besides what you have in a thai bank has nothing to do with income letter. The income letter is used to verify monthly income from outside of Thailand. i.e. pensions.

[RPCVguy]

The US-embassy has confirmed the validity change and has given us permission to publish the following:

Consul General Pratt met with the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner of

Immigration on June 4. Immigration's leadership is keen not to make

things difficult for people to live in Thailand and they recognize that

many improvements could possibly be made that do not require changing

the law. They confirmed it was their intention that these letters be

valid for six months and that they made the change recognizing the 15

day rule caused hardship. They said all of these changes can be shared

with the public and that local immigration offices are being notified.

A spot check of a couple of offices on June 4 showed they were not yet

aware of the May 29 change, but local offices should be aware in the near future.

I applaud the sentiments of Immigration's leadership as cited above. If the goal is to ease hardship on people who've done all the primary hoop jumping to live here, adopt a family role in a quiet town and such, please consider the issue of crowds and report processing in Chiang Mai, though the staff there consistently works through the crowds with polite and patient forbearance.

As an American who lives hours away from Chiang Mai, is there anything that can be done to assist the thousands of people who are no longer allowed to mail in 90-day reports to the Chiang Mai office? (There is sometimes talk of on-line reporting ... is that something real? Can implementation be expedited?

This is a worse hardship than an annual requirement as related the visa extensions - at least for me and anyone else living far enough away to require very early departures from our homes to catch transport in hopes of making a round trip in a day OR the carting of equipment needed for staying overnight. For those who wonder, there are alternatives being offered by service providers (who could disappear) but the situation has been going on since late November and the crowding or ease of access is never assured. See the comments in the Chiang Mai forum at

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/638765-90-day-reporting-comments-experiences-2013/

Thank you.