Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[bobbin]

Publicus, I followed your link re the new Civil Assistance Plan, and quelle surprise (some Canadians speak a little French), it dates all the way back to 2008.. A whole five years. if you think Canadians as whole would be/are happy to know they can now be "legally" occupied in the event of an "emergency", you have not spent much time north of the U.S. border!

Of course we share a mutual cultural heritage and we are neighbors and friends but......

We, the Western democracies, are fully entitled to defend ourselves, but America has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. This is the wet-dream of a lifetime opportunity for those with an inclination to defend democracy against itself if need be.

[Sing_Sling]

a) The English speaking countries have a common and shared history, culture, society, civilization and are vested in their own self-preservation per se.

Snowdon talks a good game. But why didn't he pursue proper authorities to state his grievances? Perhaps he has another agenda.

c) The only question at this point is whether the CCP will protect its agent at all costs

Again, I do like reading your views, but when you get off on this tangent I just have to shake my head in disbelief:

a ) - nonsense

b ) - in your eyes he obviously does as you have branded him a PRC 'agent'

c ) -

(I used only the sentences that pertained to my reply and didn't change the meanings - if you don't agree I shall delete my post, no worries)

[AnotherOneAmerican]

He didn't look like a Chinese spy to me.

Anyways, when I'm planning to destroy the world, I do it person to person.

The US government is welcome to search my facebook page, google information and my email & telephone calls.

[lomatopo]

Not sure this guy makes a good spy with that tell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ss2_0emOY

[Publicus]

Publicus, I followed your link re the new Civil Assistance Plan, and quelle surprise (some Canadians speak a little French), it dates all the way back to 2008.. A whole five years. if you think Canadians as whole would be/are happy to know they can now be "legally" occupied in the event of an "emergency", you have not spent much time north of the U.S. border!

Of course we share a mutual cultural heritage and we are neighbors and friends but......

We, the Western democracies, are fully entitled to defend ourselves, but America has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. This is the wet-dream of a lifetime opportunity for those with an inclination to defend democracy against itself if need be.

Paranoia.

The two government agreed to the plan.

I'll reiterate, the U.S. and Canada are inextricably intertwined and we know that.

I'm concerned about CCP and Russian espionage and the balance between the need we have for liberty and the need we have for national security - indeed, global security.

[JDGRUEN]

OP = Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[geriatrickid]

I don't suppose that anyone cares that the program was "legal"? Congress authorized the activity and it was subject to legal review. It is all well and nice that some technical clerk has such lofty views, but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public. I don't need some high school dropout to interpret the law on my behalf.

Oh sure, some will bleat on, but the man's a hero etc. Really? There were other options by which he could voice his concerns. He could have contacted any number of Senators such as Rand Paul or Al Franken, depending upon his political affiliation, and they would have taken it from there. There are a number of Representatives who would have acted on the information.

He deserves the heap of trouble he is now in. He can join Bradley Manning on traitor's row and rot.

I hope you have good insurance to cover you for that huge fall off your high horse GK.

I like this bit.

but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public.

Just who has betrayed the trust of the US general public here? There must be 250 Million Americans that welcome this revelation who don't think their trust is betrayed at all. that really remains firmly in the realms of the peoples EMPLOYEES on Capitol Hill and some of the anti-patriots in the CIA.

I was anticipating your response. Here's your moral dilemma. The activity was authorized by Congress. As you know , Congress makes the laws of the land and represents the people. Basically, your argument is that the legally authorized activity can be disregarded. Laws enacted by Congress can be ignored. Nice. In plain language, if you disagree with the law, you don't have to comply. Alrighty then. Let anarchy rule.

[geriatrickid]

Publicus, I followed your link re the new Civil Assistance Plan, and quelle surprise (some Canadians speak a little French), it dates all the way back to 2008.. A whole five years. if you think Canadians as whole would be/are happy to know they can now be "legally" occupied in the event of an "emergency", you have not spent much time north of the U.S. border!

Of course we share a mutual cultural heritage and we are neighbors and friends but......

We, the Western democracies, are fully entitled to defend ourselves, but America has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. This is the wet-dream of a lifetime opportunity for those with an inclination to defend democracy against itself if need be.

To set the record straight, the CAP is only a formalization of a long standing agreement; The purpose of the Canada-United States Civil Assistance Plan (CAP) is to provide a framework for the military of one nation to provide support to the military of the other nation while in the performance of civil support operations to the primary agency (e.g., floods, forest fires, hurricanes, earthquakes, and effects of a terrorist attack).

It may come as a surprise to you, but other governments have a vested interest in this case. The Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSEC) has been intercepting US based communications for several decades. Information obtained is screened and useful information passed on to the US authorities. The USA returns the favour. It is illegal for CSEC to intentionally target Canadians, but it can target Americans. The US program that Mr. Snowden betrayed is a component of international security programs involving many countries, some of whom do not want the world to know what they are doing. Australia for example, is a major part of the surveillance system in Asia and its intelligence community regularly intercepts communications from the US and Canada. Useful information is then shared with Canada and the USA. The interception of bogus refugees from Sri Lanka to Canada owes much to Australian and US information intercepts from smugglers in Canada and Sri Lanka.

[geriatrickid]

Publicus, I followed your link re the new Civil Assistance Plan, and quelle surprise (some Canadians speak a little French), it dates all the way back to 2008.. A whole five years. if you think Canadians as whole would be/are happy to know they can now be "legally" occupied in the event of an "emergency", you have not spent much time north of the U.S. border!

Of course we share a mutual cultural heritage and we are neighbors and friends but......

We, the Western democracies, are fully entitled to defend ourselves, but America has thrown the baby out with the bathwater. This is the wet-dream of a lifetime opportunity for those with an inclination to defend democracy against itself if need be.

Paranoia.

The two government agreed to the plan.

I'll reiterate, the U.S. and Canada are inextricably intertwined and we know that.

I'm concerned about CCP and Russian espionage and the balance between the need we have for liberty and the need we have for national security - indeed, global security.

The recent case of the Russians spying on the Canadian naval communications center and the extensive Chinese hacking of western governments demonstrates your point.

[Loptr]

I don't suppose that anyone cares that the program was "legal"? Congress authorized the activity and it was subject to legal review. It is all well and nice that some technical clerk has such lofty views, but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public. I don't need some high school dropout to interpret the law on my behalf.

Oh sure, some will bleat on, but the man's a hero etc. Really? There were other options by which he could voice his concerns. He could have contacted any number of Senators such as Rand Paul or Al Franken, depending upon his political affiliation, and they would have taken it from there. There are a number of Representatives who would have acted on the information.

He deserves the heap of trouble he is now in. He can join Bradley Manning on traitor's row and rot.

Legal or not, US citizens where not advised as to the extend of the electronic monitoring. Now that these facts have come to light, it is up to US citizens to pressure the legislature to repeal these laws. You can only do things in the dark of night for so long before the truth comes out. The PATRIOT Act and the NDAA effectively nullify the US Constitution. US citizens have no rights any more. Until these laws are repealed, there will be no freedom in the US.

On another note, there seems to be a number of scandals being broken in the media in the last few weeks about the US government. None of them good for the current administration. Policies, practices and procedures that all fall outside the bounds of legitimacy, while still technically legal. It appears the media have found their resolve and changed their opinion of the current administration ever since the AP wire tap scandal broke. The lesson here is, don't f__k with those that brought you to the dance. The media got Obama elected. It seems they are now hell-bent on bringing him down. All I can say is that it's about time.

[Loptr]

It has been known for a very long time that American bases in the UK are listening in on European business leaders and passing this info back to American corporations. Germany business leaders complained about this

back in the 1990's

Care to substantiate your allegations?

The Canadians and Australians have listening posts too. I suppose they are part of a vast conspiracy.

Germany engages in similar activities.

So please do share your information.

Here you go. Enjoy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303933704577531280097324446.html

http://theweek.com/article/index/245311/sources-nsa-sucks-in-data-from-50-companies

[JDGRUEN]

I don't suppose that anyone cares that the program was "legal"? Congress authorized the activity and it was subject to legal review. It is all well and nice that some technical clerk has such lofty views, but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public. I don't need some high school dropout to interpret the law on my behalf.

Oh sure, some will bleat on, but the man's a hero etc. Really? There were other options by which he could voice his concerns. He could have contacted any number of Senators such as Rand Paul or Al Franken, depending upon his political affiliation, and they would have taken it from there. There are a number of Representatives who would have acted on the information.

He deserves the heap of trouble he is now in. He can join Bradley Manning on traitor's row and rot.

I hope you have good insurance to cover you for that huge fall off your high horse GK.

I like this bit.

but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public.

Just who has betrayed the trust of the US general public here? There must be 250 Million Americans that welcome this revelation who don't think their trust is betrayed at all. that really remains firmly in the realms of the peoples EMPLOYEES on Capitol Hill and some of the anti-patriots in the CIA.

I was anticipating your response. Here's your moral dilemma. The activity was authorized by Congress. As you know , Congress makes the laws of the land and represents the people. Basically, your argument is that the legally authorized activity can be disregarded. Laws enacted by Congress can be ignored. Nice. In plain language, if you disagree with the law, you don't have to comply. Alrighty then. Let anarchy rule.

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA. And in this process permission would be gained by court review and authorization. Seems this has been totally ignored and thrown out.. Mr. Snowden says he felt Democracy was being threatened (with such broad scale sifting of totally information on innocent people done without due process - my addition). What the NSA has done - because it technologically can do it is scoop up all the sand on the beaches of the USA - sift through to see if a stray diamond or pearl of intelligence might be hiding there... Instead of focusing on genuine leads and going through due process to perform fine tuned pin pointed interception. The big problem with this process - aside from trampling of the privacy of American citizens is that such 'scooping up' gives the obama Administration access to contact information done by political opponents, members of the SCOTUS, Members of Congress and other information it should not have. Having such information leads to the temptation to blackmail opposition and shut it down. IMO this is part of what Snowden was objecting to and rightly so.

[Credo]

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA.

<snipped>

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

[Exsexyman]

Not sure this guy makes a good spy with that tell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9ss2_0emOY

Haha, very very funny. Talk about being in the wrong job! No doubt publicus will be on here in a minute telling us that this is a clear example of a man telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!

[JDGRUEN]

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA.

<snipped>

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA.

<snipped>

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican Author Of Patriot Act, Says NSA PRISM Surveillance Goes Too Far ... The author of the Patriot Act on Sunday continued his criticism of the National Security Agency’s widespread surveillance of U.S. citizens’ phone and digital records.

In a scathing article published in the Guardian -- the British paper that broke the story -- Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., accused President Barack Obama of falsely claiming that the controversial 2001 Patriot Act authorizes NSA surveillance. In fact, he said, the law was “designed to protect liberties,” and the agency’s activities are an abuse of the law.

http://www.ibtimes.com/jim-sensenbrenner-republican-author-patriot-act-says-nsa-prism-surveillance-goes-too-far-1297697#

[Credo]

So basically, the law didn't go too far for Bush, but it goes too far for Obama?

Sounds like a red herring.

Is there any reason that Congress can't repeal the law?

[GentlemanJim]

I was anticipating your response. Here's your moral dilemma. The activity was authorized by Congress. As you know , Congress makes the laws of the land and represents the people. Basically, your argument is that the legally authorized activity can be disregarded. Laws enacted by Congress can be ignored. Nice. In plain language, if you disagree with the law, you don't have to comply. Alrighty then. Let anarchy rule.

You anticipated my response...wow, I am impressed, you know me better than me What you are basically saying is that every Congressman knew what the 'activity' entailed. They knew the extent of what the NSA were doing, is that it? Rather than the diatribe you write above about anarchy, how about the concept that the law makers stick to the law and do not deceive the people. So all the congressmen now complaining about this are lying and putting on a show, because as far as you are concerned they approved it, so they must have known how the 'activity' was being implemented. Someone is lying and it's not Edward Snowden, and if you believe that he should be imprisoned, particularly in light of the nation, nay global wide horror at what is being done in the name of 'national security' then we are from planets many light years apart.

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

Correct. But if their Commander in Chief and President can lie to them to persuade them to vote for a war, the same man was perfectly capable of lying to them to pass this particular bill.

[GentlemanJim]

Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican Author Of Patriot Act, Says NSA PRISM Surveillance Goes Too Far ... The author of the Patriot Act on Sunday continued his criticism of the National Security Agency’s widespread surveillance of U.S. citizens’ phone and digital records.

In a scathing article published in the Guardian -- the British paper that broke the story -- Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., accused President Barack Obama of falsely claiming that the controversial 2001 Patriot Act authorizes NSA surveillance. In fact, he said, the law was “designed to protect liberties,” and the agency’s activities are an abuse of the law.

http://www.ibtimes.com/jim-sensenbrenner-republican-author-patriot-act-says-nsa-prism-surveillance-goes-too-far-1297697#

GK

Read and weep. Should Congressman Sensenbrenner be considered part of the anarchy group as well? Lets face it, had any other congressman commented then you could try and argue the point, but when the author of the law says, stop, its too much, it's wrong what are you going to say now. By the way did you anticipate this reply as well?

[JDGRUEN]

So basically, the law didn't go too far for Bush, but it goes too far for Obama?

Sounds like a red herring.

Is there any reason that Congress can't repeal the law?

The relevant laws can be repealed - better yet changed - modified to protect the country and the Constitutional Rights of American Citizens. I don't have details as to the extent of such NSA surveillance done under the Bush Administration. But from everything I read it pales in comparison to the scope and extent that has been done under the obama Administration.

[manarak]

It has been known for a very long time that American bases in the UK are listening in on European business leaders and passing this info back to American corporations. Germany business leaders complained about this

back in the 1990's

Care to substantiate your allegations?

The Canadians and Australians have listening posts too. I suppose they are part of a vast conspiracy.

Germany engages in similar activities.

So please do share your information.

The Germans were not the only ones to suffer from espionage - information gathered by the US spy apparatus has been forwarded to US corporations to win bids over French and German and other EU firms.

This has been admitted by the US government in at least one case, where the topic was the sale of French civilian radar equipment to Brazil.

[manarak]

Anyway, the US espionage on the internet and anything transiting through the networks has long been evident for me, especially because of the former inability of iphones to synchronize with a PC via USB or Bluetooth, but had to pass through google mail instead... very fishy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556345-another-one-how-to-muddy-your-tracks-on-the-internetny-times/#entry5318046

then the cloud services, providers encouraging users to keep data online, cloud services, facebook asking for phone numbers, google doing the same...

you say the activity is legal because approved by US congress... well, the US congress is not my congress, and by my national Law, reading my private correspondence is illegal.

But: I don't care about all this as long as my information stays in the intelligence community, meaning it doesn't get leaked to outside the CIA or NSA.

The very day this information will be used by the tax authorities or law enforcement, or worse, for political goals, the country will be lost.

But how realistic is it that such information remains confidential?

[Exsexyman]

Anyway, the US espionage on the internet and anything transiting through the networks has long been evident for me, especially because of the former inability of iphones to synchronize with a PC via USB or Bluetooth, but had to pass through google mail instead... very fishy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/556345-another-one-how-to-muddy-your-tracks-on-the-internetny-times/#entry5318046

then the cloud services, providers encouraging users to keep data online, cloud services, facebook asking for phone numbers, google doing the same...

you say the activity is legal because approved by US congress... well, the US congress is not my congress, and by my national Law, reading my private correspondence is illegal.

But: I don't care about all this as long as my information stays in the intelligence community, meaning it doesn't get leaked to outside the CIA or NSA.

The very day this information will be used by the tax authorities or law enforcement, or worse, for political goals, the country will be lost.

But how realistic is it that such information remains confidential?

Not realistic at all i'm afraid. There was a case in the UK earlier this year when a woman joked to her friend on facebook that she was going to "egg" the Prime Minister when he paid an official visit to her constituency later that month. A few days later two policemen knocked on her door and took her away for questioning. A wise man said to me ages ago regarding facebook. "There is a reason why it's free". I personally would have nothing to do with it.

[wealth]

27 key notes or quotes from Snowden

#1 “The majority of people in developed countries spend at least some time interacting with the Internet, and Governments are abusing that necessity in secret to extend their powers beyond what is necessary and appropriate.”

#2 “…I believe that at this point in history, the greatest danger to our freedom and way of life comes from the reasonable fear of omniscient State powers kept in check by nothing more than policy documents.”

#3 “The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to.”

#4 “…I can’t in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they’re secretly building.”

#5 “The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything.”

#6 “With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your e-mails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your e-mails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.”

#7 “Any analyst at any time can target anyone. Any selector, anywhere… I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President…”

#8 “To do that, the NSA specifically targets the communications of everyone. It ingests them by default. It collects them in its system and it filters them and it analyzes them and it measures them and it stores them for periods of time simply because that’s the easiest, most efficient and most valuable way to achieve these ends. So while they may be intending to target someone associated with a foreign government, or someone that they suspect of terrorism, they are collecting YOUR communications to do so.”

#9 “I believe that when [senator Ron] Wyden and [senator Mark] Udall asked about the scale of this, they [the NSA] said it did not have the tools to provide an answer. We do have the tools and I have maps showing where people have been scrutinized most. We collect more digital communications from America than we do from the Russians.”

#10 “…they are intent on making every conversation and every form of behavior in the world known to them.”

#11 “Even if you’re not doing anything wrong, you’re being watched and recorded. …it’s getting to the point where you don’t have to have done anything wrong, you simply have to eventually fall under suspicion from somebody, even by a wrong call, and then they can use this system to go back in time and scrutinize every decision you’ve ever made, every friend you’ve ever discussed something with, and attack you on that basis, to sort of derive suspicion from an innocent life.”

#12 “Allowing the U.S. government to intimidate its people with threats of retaliation for revealing wrongdoing is contrary to the public interest.”

#13 “Everyone everywhere now understands how bad things have gotten — and they’re talking about it. They have the power to decide for themselves whether they are willing to sacrifice their privacy to the surveillance state.”

#14 “I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under.”

#15 “I don’t want to live in a world where there’s no privacy, and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity.”

#16 “I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong.”

#17 “I had been looking for leaders, but I realized that leadership is about being the first to act.”

#18 “There are more important things than money. If I were motivated by money, I could have sold these documents to any number of countries and gotten very rich.”

#19 “The great fear that I have regarding the outcome for America of these disclosures is that nothing will change. [People] won’t be willing to take the risks necessary to stand up and fight to change things… And in the months ahead, the years ahead, it’s only going to get worse. [The NSA will] say that… because of the crisis, the dangers that we face in the world, some new and unpredicted threat, we need more authority, we need more power, and there will be nothing the people can do at that point to oppose it. And it will be turnkey tyranny.”

#20 “I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant.”

#21 “You can’t come up against the world’s most powerful intelligence agencies and not accept the risk.”

#22 “I know the media likes to personalize political debates, and I know the government will demonize me.”

#23 “We have got a CIA station just up the road – the consulate here in Hong Kong – and I am sure they are going to be busy for the next week. And that is a concern I will live with for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be.”

#24 “I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions, and that the return of this information to the public marks my end.”

#25 “There’s no saving me.”

#26 “The only thing I fear is the harmful effects on my family, who I won’t be able to help any more. That’s what keeps me up at night.”

#27 “I do not expect to see home again.”

[watcharacters]

I'll take a Snowden any day over an FBI or CIA.

[wealth]

I think Edward Joseph Snowden has or will have support from some colleagues in these agencies he worked for. This is going to be a big test for the US. It all went too far.

[wealth]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/opinion/the-national-security-agencys-domestic-spying-program.html?_r=0

It's about William Binney another whistle blower who worked for the NSA. No charges were filed. The Video interview is quite revealing and we can see from the revelations of Snowden that it got even worse.

[Publicus]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

[wealth]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

I don't think these figures are real. I'd bet on that.

Was not an intelligent move at all. Universities in the USA asking people to quit services like Facebook, Google, Hotmail etc.. You can find a link on that above at businessinsider.com

[Publicus]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

I don't think these figures are real. I'd bet on that.

Was not an intelligent move at all. Universities in the USA asking people to quit services like Facebook, Google, Hotmail etc.. You can find a link on that above at businessinsider.com

Deny, deny, deny.

I am a member of Facebook but I put as little information as possible there and rarely visit the site. Facebook and other social websites have more information on you and I - each of us, than the U.S. government could ever possibly amass.

My Rapport Trusteer security system, recommended by my U.S. bank and which I apply to all the websites I frequent, presents a weekly report of privacy attacks against me and my pc that scares the hell out of me. Each week It reports having blocked dozens of attempts to read my password keystrokes and literally 300 attempts of malware - and "friendly" software - to secretly take control of my browser to obtain vital personal information.

It's the private corporations that run social websites and the private corporations I don't trust because they want all the information they possibly can get concerning everything about me.

Consequently, I'm much more concerned about private corporate America than the government and its constitutionally sworn agents who are professional and are patriots without being extremists.

[wealth]

Think about of who set these companies up and for what purpose.

I run 2 western anti - malware, virus and phishing programs and a Chinese one. Funny the Chinese one immediately found and deleted "outbrowse.exe". I could say a word or two from where it came. Some are packed into trusted software packages. - hint

BTW, nobody says or said that professionals in these agencies are bad, but watch the interview,

It took me a few days to work up the nerve to phone William Binney. As someone already a “target” of the United States government, I found it difficult not to worry about the chain of unintended consequences I might unleash by calling Mr. Binney, a 32-year veteran of the National Security Agency turned whistle-blower. He picked up. I nervously explained I was a documentary filmmaker and wanted to speak to him. To my surprise he replied: “I’m tired of my government harassing me and violating the Constitution. Yes, I’ll talk to you.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/opinion/the-national-security-agencys-domestic-spying-program.html?_r=0