Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[manarak]

The affect of data collection is more insidious than that. What happens is, when you know your life is wholly without privacy, is that you censor yourself. You make at first a concious and later an unconcious decision to never say or do anything provocative, or at least provocative by whtever todays standard is. Next decade it may be a different standard with different concocted enemies, that you were sympathetic to once. Now they're the enemy and you're on record as being a possible enemy too.

sounds like office politics!

[JDGRUEN]

@manarak ...

Risk Acceptance... I think Americans are willing to accept more risk to get the government of the business of spying on us. The NSA really stopped the Boston Bomber didn't they ? And the NSA had a good handle on Hasan the shooter at Fort Hood didn't they?. It is too sad to be laughable. It it similar to touting that the TSA searching old ladies in wheel chairs and children in strollers is actually making flying safer... Trading security for less freedom is a ridiculous idea.

[JDGRUEN]

Australia. But please don't think it is representative of the people. They will be replaced in October by the biggest beating ever inflicted on a party, and deservedly so.

By the way, I'm sure you would care if someone offered a few yuan to someone in China to listen in to you giving legal advice to a client and passing that on to your opposition.

Don't think it can't or isn't happening. I note the NSA has guidelines that if this is the case, with legal privilege that they should stop the monitoring. But the horse could have bolted before then, and it relies on those doing the monitoring to be above reproach. That is dangerous, as is obvious from what Snowden has done.

Can you imagine when further corruption sets in - what one crooked analyst selling information could do to the U.S. Stockmarkets with the kind of insider information NSA taps could get? ... Greed could spin out of control and crash the markets beyond anything we have ever seen. Bottom line the NSA has to be pulled back .... far too many dangers including blackmail ...

Edited June 25, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[F430murci]

Australia. But please don't think it is representative of the people. They will be replaced in October by the biggest beating ever inflicted on a party, and deservedly so.

By the way, I'm sure you would care if someone offered a few yuan to someone in China to listen in to you giving legal advice to a client and passing that on to your opposition.

Don't think it can't or isn't happening. I note the NSA has guidelines that if this is the case, with legal privilege that they should stop the monitoring. But the horse could have bolted before then, and it relies on those doing the monitoring to be above reproach. That is dangerous, as is obvious from what Snowden has done.

Can you imagine when further corruption sets in - what one crooked analyst selling information could do to the U.S. Stockmarkets with the kind of insider information NSA taps could get? ... Greed could spin out of control and crash the markets beyond anything we have ever seen. Bottom line the NSA has to be pulled back .... far too many dangers including blackmail ...

Wow! Just wow!

[lannarebirth]

The question is how many 10's of billions of dollars will have to be wasted because a spy has spilled a huge amount of information all over the globe.

I am worried about my rights, but I am also worried that suddenly everybody else in the world has access to the information we don't even want the gov't having.

I hear you, but it begs the question, even if one is a proponent of the surveillance state, should government be engaged in data collection if they can't secure it? Anyhow, I doubt too much got out on a thumbdrive.

I speak of the balance between liberty and security

You speak exclusively in extremis of only the long train of possible horrors.

Take care not to create self fulfilling prophesies.

But it's not secure is it. Do you think a foreign government would go to the trouble of collecting every single fact about every single America (300,000,000 plus) from an incalculable number of databases, when they could get it all in one fell swoop by hacking into the NSA, like the high school dropout kid did? Hey, did you ever see Dr. Strangelove? good movie.

[JDGRUEN]

Australia. But please don't think it is representative of the people. They will be replaced in October by the biggest beating ever inflicted on a party, and deservedly so.

By the way, I'm sure you would care if someone offered a few yuan to someone in China to listen in to you giving legal advice to a client and passing that on to your opposition.

Don't think it can't or isn't happening. I note the NSA has guidelines that if this is the case, with legal privilege that they should stop the monitoring. But the horse could have bolted before then, and it relies on those doing the monitoring to be above reproach. That is dangerous, as is obvious from what Snowden has done.

Can you imagine when further corruption sets in - what one crooked analyst selling information could do to the U.S. Stockmarkets with the kind of insider information NSA taps could get? ... Greed could spin out of control and crash the markets beyond anything we have ever seen. Bottom line the NSA has to be pulled back .... far too many dangers including blackmail ...

Wow! Just wow!

Thank you for the WOWs .... I knew you would come around to my way of thinking ... I'm glad you like my post ... When wholesale information is gathered without respect to privacy rights - any amount of sensitive information can be gathered under the guise of national security ... Sifting through practically every piece communication in the U.S. could easily reveal very valuable information ... very easily used to manipulate the stock market... futures market, and much more...

[F430murci]

Australia. But please don't think it is representative of the people. They will be replaced in October by the biggest beating ever inflicted on a party, and deservedly so.

By the way, I'm sure you would care if someone offered a few yuan to someone in China to listen in to you giving legal advice to a client and passing that on to your opposition.

Don't think it can't or isn't happening. I note the NSA has guidelines that if this is the case, with legal privilege that they should stop the monitoring. But the horse could have bolted before then, and it relies on those doing the monitoring to be above reproach. That is dangerous, as is obvious from what Snowden has done.

Can you imagine when further corruption sets in - what one crooked analyst selling information could do to the U.S. Stockmarkets with the kind of insider information NSA taps could get? ... Greed could spin out of control and crash the markets beyond anything we have ever seen. Bottom line the NSA has to be pulled back .... far too many dangers including blackmail ...

Wow! Just wow!

Thank you for the WOWs .... I knew you would come around to my way of thinking ... I'm glad you like my post ... When wholesale information is gathered without respect to privacy rights - any amount of sensitive information can be gathered under the guise of national security ... Sifting through practically every piece communication in the U.S. could easily reveal very valuable information ... very easily used to manipulate the stock market... futures market, and much more...

Sorry, was freaking that you felt that way. We have handled or worked on a lot of the insider trading cases. Candidly, this would be the last thing I would worry about.

Spooks have other spooks watching over them. My brother is an agent and a military officer with high clearance. Private contractors obviously were an issue, but things have already changed drastically.

I am sure weird stuff happens, but that is far fetched. I have seen your belief that banks are out to take our money. It's all good and people are cool to believe whatever makes them warm and fuzzy, but it blows me away nonetheless.

[JDGRUEN]

But you do know the full story do you?

All we know is that Snowden told the papers some things that he knew. From that it has been said as 'fact' by some that the Chinese have drained his laptops, he has told the Chinese and Russians all the NSA secrets etc etc.

All just guesses but nothing of fact.

But we do know that people in influential positions in the US have lied to the people and congress.

I trust I am not alone in hoping my govt takes the US govt to task for what it has and is doing and asks for a please explain.

Who is your government?

Why in the world would China and especially Russia say you can come here, we will cover for you and no we don't want to see what is on your top secret lap tops regarding US spying on our countries. Do you really hear what you are saying or are you just so angry logic does not yet resonate?

Speculation does not equal Facts or Truths ... chastising others for having opinions based on conjecture and speculation is chastising yourself ... opinion and speculation is open to all parties ... None of us really know what the NSA actually and fully did, nor do you or me or nor anyone else know.

Did Snowden pass facts - give up intelligence to China or Russia? Who knows ? .. Guessing and supposition are not facts and you are guessing and supposing without evidence ... then criticizing others for doing the same thing ... Wow ... Wow... Wow...

When the facts are in on Snowden and who did what and who looked at what and who received what ... then if you are correct - then you can strut your feathers a little - but you seem a bit premature ...

[F430murci]

But you do know the full story do you?

All we know is that Snowden told the papers some things that he knew. From that it has been said as 'fact' by some that the Chinese have drained his laptops, he has told the Chinese and Russians all the NSA secrets etc etc.

All just guesses but nothing of fact.

But we do know that people in influential positions in the US have lied to the people and congress.

I trust I am not alone in hoping my govt takes the US govt to task for what it has and is doing and asks for a please explain.

Who is your government?

Why in the world would China and especially Russia say you can come here, we will cover for you and no we don't want to see what is on your top secret lap tops regarding US spying on our countries. Do you really hear what you are saying or are you just so angry logic does not yet resonate?

Speculation does not equal Facts or Truths ... chastising others for having opinions based on conjecture and speculation is chastising yourself ... opinion and speculation is open to all parties ... None of us really know what the NSA actually and fully did, nor do you or me or nor anyone else know.

Did Snowden pass facts - give up intelligence to China or Russia? Who knows ? .. Guessing and supposition are not facts and you are guessing and supposing without evidence ... then criticizing others for doing the same thing ... Wow ... Wow... Wow...

When the facts are in on Snowden and who did what and who looked at what and who received what ... then if you are correct - then you can strut your feathers a little - but you seem a bit premature ...

I was right when I said he never left Russia on Sunday and I right when I say Russia took those lap tops. Russia spends years and lives to get their hands in that type of intel. They would never let this chance slip through fingers. Nor would US.

The charge that Snowden's leaks are causing damage, made by officials speaking on condition of anonymity, comes as the Obama administration mounts a campaign to pressure Russia to extradite him. Russian president Vladimir Putin on Tuesday confirmed Snowden was in the transit area of a Moscow airport, but ruled out handing him to Washington.

The officials declined to specify what changes were spotted among militant groups, fearing that the more details provided on what was known about their behavior the easier it would be for them to adapt.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95P00R20130626?irpc=932

[F430murci]

Gotta love Putin:

Underscoring both the diplomatic and public-relations problems, Russian President Vladimir Putin smiled Tuesday and appeared to make light of the Snowden affair as he ruled out handing him over.

He dismissed American criticisms that Russia is helping Snowden as ravings and rubbish, according to Reuters, and told a news conference in Finland: I myself would prefer not to deal with these issues. Its like giving a baby pig a haircut: Theres a lot of squealing, but theres little wool.

[F430murci]

Sounds familiar!

It makes perfect sense that China and Russia would want to extract information from Snowden, he said.

Its not honorable. It doesnt excuse anything about Snowden, he said. But its how the game is played. How its always been played.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/25/19135685-hunt-for-snowden-upsets-diplomatic-ties-could-ding-us-reputation?lite

[JDGRUEN]

But you do know the full story do you?

All we know is that Snowden told the papers some things that he knew. From that it has been said as 'fact' by some that the Chinese have drained his laptops, he has told the Chinese and Russians all the NSA secrets etc etc.

All just guesses but nothing of fact.

But we do know that people in influential positions in the US have lied to the people and congress.

I trust I am not alone in hoping my govt takes the US govt to task for what it has and is doing and asks for a please explain.

Who is your government?

Why in the world would China and especially Russia say you can come here, we will cover for you and no we don't want to see what is on your top secret lap tops regarding US spying on our countries. Do you really hear what you are saying or are you just so angry logic does not yet resonate?

Speculation does not equal Facts or Truths ... chastising others for having opinions based on conjecture and speculation is chastising yourself ... opinion and speculation is open to all parties ... None of us really know what the NSA actually and fully did, nor do you or me or nor anyone else know.

Did Snowden pass facts - give up intelligence to China or Russia? Who knows ? .. Guessing and supposition are not facts and you are guessing and supposing without evidence ... then criticizing others for doing the same thing ... Wow ... Wow... Wow...

When the facts are in on Snowden and who did what and who looked at what and who received what ... then if you are correct - then you can strut your feathers a little - but you seem a bit premature ...

I was right when I said he never left Russia on Sunday and I right when I say Russia took those lap tops. Russia spends years and lives to get their hands in that type of intel. They would never let this chance slip through fingers. Nor would US.

The charge that Snowden's leaks are causing damage, made by officials speaking on condition of anonymity, comes as the Obama administration mounts a campaign to pressure Russia to extradite him. Russian president Vladimir Putin on Tuesday confirmed Snowden was in the transit area of a Moscow airport, but ruled out handing him to Washington.

The officials declined to specify what changes were spotted among militant groups, fearing that the more details provided on what was known about their behavior the easier it would be for them to adapt.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95P00R20130626?irpc=932

I was right when I said he never left Russia on Sunday and I right when I say Russia took those lap tops. Russia spends years and lives to get their hands in that type of intel. They would never let this chance slip through fingers. Nor would US.

You are right? I read the referenced article ... I saw words like 'feared', 'may' ... 'might' ... Nothing in the article supports anything about taking laptops... Is your proof somewhere else.? The descriptions of 'damage' are rather vague ... and supported by ill defined evidence... Please try a little harder to post something that rings of real evidence

[F430murci]

Just spoke to wife. She has heard nothing about Snowden in Russia. Russia media says he is in Ecuador.

[F430murci]

This sounds familiar:

The Russians have a way of dealing with men like Edward Snowden.

First, we would ask him questions to which the answers are already known that is to check his truthfulness, said Oleg Kalugin, a former major general in the Soviet KGB. If he really knows what he says he does, if he is telling the truth later they would ask something which is less known. Finally, they will let him say whatever he wants to say.

Kalugin and other former intelligence professionals told POLITICO on Tuesday that Snowdens long layover in Moscow could be a windfall for Russias intelligence service, whose officers are most likely taking maximum advantage of his arrival right on their doorstep.

The risks for the United States, they warned could be grave.

. . .

But the fact remains that Snowdens flight from Hong Kong on Sunday has put him right into the lair of Russias infamous intelligence service.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-foreign-intel-93366.html

Edited June 26, 2013 by F430murci

[wealth]

I think Snowden has to make a public appearance in a way or the other soon or else Russia is in troubles and limelight.

Yes it's the gov's fault by Obama and his cohorts playing the drama queen with euphoria symphony orchestra.

A people equipped with a strong constitution, high moral, courage and steadfastness will always find a way to get things to light.

As Cohen says: "there's a crack in everything, there's where the light gets in"

[mania]

As Cohen says: "there's a crack in everything, there's where the light gets in"

Which was why I said it was ironic that the NSA named their surveillance

program Prism

Prism = Bends Light

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted. There are a lot of posts which are starting to look more like a personal conversation between posters than a thread. A few of them are getting a bit nasty. I have done a little cleanup of some of the posts, but let's get back to the topic.

Cutsy pictures, dictionary definitions and questions about marriages are not on topic.

Thanks.

[Publicus]

But you do know the full story do you?

All we know is that Snowden told the papers some things that he knew. From that it has been said as 'fact' by some that the Chinese have drained his laptops, he has told the Chinese and Russians all the NSA secrets etc etc.

All just guesses but nothing of fact.

But we do know that people in influential positions in the US have lied to the people and congress.

I trust I am not alone in hoping my govt takes the US govt to task for what it has and is doing and asks for a please explain.

Anyone in contact with reality would know that the contents of Snowden's four laptops have been transferred to the CCP in Beijing and to the Russians in Moscow. Either the laptops were compromised without Snowden's knowledge, or, far more likely than not, with it. Recall that the South China Morning Post published an article this week quoting Snowden that he took the NSA job through a private contractor for the expressed purpose to get all the national and global security information that he could, which is a clear statement of what we now know to be a nefarious intent and purpose, premeditated in nature.

Then Snowden ran off to Hong Kong, which is in the PRC, unrealistically and without credibility singing the praises of the legal system of the Special Administrative Region of the PRC, and stating he would stay in HKG indefinitely, illegally to reveal his stolen national and global security secrets and to resist the US government in the Hong Kong courts. When things got too hot for him in HKG the CCP-PRC government in Beijing shuffled him off to Moscow. (I'd been wondering why Putin looked so tense at the recent G-8 meeting while he and Obama sat together to conduct a joint press conference. We can conclude now Putin had already known of the Grand Plan of both Beijing and himself concerning Snowden.)

The Australian government is one of the tiny handful of governments that the US shares virtually all of its intelligence information with (the UK and Canada). And vice-versa, so the three countries are also compromised (it matters not which party leads the government in either the UK, Australia, Canada). But Snowden's disclosures also harm Japan, S Korea, Italy, Poland, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel and other allies of the United States. Conversely, it assists governments hostile to the United States, such as the CCP-PRC, Putin and his gang in Moscow, Iran, N Korea, Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, Nicaragua and others. (The latter are next in line as the US already has reactivated its 4th Naval fleet, which is its South America fleet, of Teddy Roosevelt fame.)

And Snowden intended to create chaos and panic in the United States. The loudest voices of raw panic in reaction to Snowden's domestic focus are on the far right, not from the broad political center-middle which want to see Snowden in prison and who accept a redefined balance between liberty and security. The matter before the broad political center-middle are the exact specifics of the new limitations to liberty, which hopefully are of a temporary nature, and the particular specifics of our new national and global security needs and requirements.

Being in contact with the new reality of liberty and security is the core matter. Railing against it self-defines one as out of the mainstream of recognized contemporary realities that are serious and which need to be seriously and thoughtfully addressed rather than denied and, unfortunately, denied in the absolute.

Details of Snowden’s Hong Kong stay emerge

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/details-of-snowdens-stay-in-hong-kong/2013/06/24/3e334fce-dd04-11e2-bd83-e99e43c336ed_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop

[mania]

I'd been wondering why Putin looked so tense at the recent G-8 meeting while he and Obama sat together to conduct a joint press conference. We can conclude now Putin had already known of the Grand Plan of both Beijing and himself concerning Snowden.

That did make me smile.

All we know from the MSN is what they have been told by

The message was blunt and was delivered Friday night by a shadowy emissary who didn’t identify himself

Useful idiots are harvested daily by use of such fertilizer

One thing I know 101% to be unequivocally true & that is we don't know squat & neither does the MSN

All the MSN knows is what they are fed by shadowy figures. Could be accurate, could be false flags.

A case like this is likely to have a lot of diversion seeded by those accused of wrong doings.

It is amazing more questions are not being asked about the crime rather than the whistle blower

Edited June 26, 2013 by mania

[Scott]

Stay on the topic. Posts and replies deleted.

[F430murci]

Off-topic posts deleted. There are a lot of posts which are starting to look more like a personal conversation between posters than a thread. A few of them are getting a bit nasty. I have done a little cleanup of some of the posts, but let's get back to the topic.

Cutsy pictures, dictionary definitions and questions about marriages are not on topic.

Thanks.

Haha, was someone questioning my being married to a Russian now? Bummer that I was asleep as I would have loved to see that!

[Scott]

No, no, nothing serious and nothing particularly bad, just starting to drift into a philosophical, political discussion. Unfortunately, these sorts of posts start getting nasty after awhile and it gets hard to clean up.

--no one needs to get paranoid at this point-- just stay on the topic.

Thanks.

[Publicus]

What i find kind of funny is that aside from the demonization of the kid Snowden the government has gone kinda mum. I think they're afraid to speak for fear he'll release something the next day to show that they are lying, yet again. Hoisted on their own petard, as it were.

Four years ago, Ed Snowden thought leakers should be ‘shot’

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/26/four-years-ago-ed-snowden-thought-leakers-should-be-shot/?tid=d_pulse

Logs have been found of Edward Snowden heatedly engaged in an online chat room discussion four years ago severely denouncing leaks of highly classified foreign policy information. The logs are from an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) server associated with Ars Technica.

Snowden was "incensed" at the New York Times, which had described secret negotiations between the United States and Israel over how best to deal with Iran’s suspected nuclear program.

Snowden is logged as exclaiming, “Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus Christ. They’re like wikileaks.” Snowden wrote. “You don’t put that s— in the NEWSPAPER.”

“Those people should be shot in the balls,” Snowden said of leakers in a January 2009 chat, according to the Washington Post. The Washington Post is of course one of the three newspapers to which Snowden has leaked highly classified national security information and documents.

I'm concerned about the mental and emotional stability of his volatile guy. He is all over the place intellectually and emotionally, as well as now globally as a fugitive. He's not only changed his views on a major issue in a very short time, but has radically changed his views, followed during this year by radical actions intended to harm the United States both at home and globally.

Snowden has said in an interview with the Hong Kong English language newspaper the South China Morning Post that he had successfully lined up a NSA connected job for the purpose of collecting highly classified documents and information so he could both leak them and to provide them to foreign governments hostile to the United States. The US government is presently investigating the question whether Snowden has been collaborating with the CCP in Beijing, and possibly the Russian government in Moscow.

Snowden clearly does not understand the phone surveillance program or the PRISM program, which the most recent CNN/ORC poll shows are supported by the vast US political center-middle. The focus clearly is on Snowden and his ever changing state of mind and concerning his radical actions throughout this year.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Publicus

[Ulysses G.]

So Snowden is a hypocrite as well as a traitor.

[FDog]

How did they get that discussion, more illegal methods?

Who cares what he did in the past or what he will do in the future. As usual, trying to deflect the real issue by finding dirt on Snowden.

How about using the same gusto to find dirt on the Govt because what the govt did is what this is all about.

Edited June 27, 2013 by FDog

[Publicus]

How did they get that discussion, more illegal methods?

Who cares what he did in the past or what he will do in the future. As usual, trying to deflect the real issue by finding dirt on Snowden.

How about using the same gusto to find dirt on the Govt because what the govt did is what this is all about.

To cite but one reason, the topic of the thread is "NSA Contractor Identifies Himself As Source."

That's all there is to the topic. We are required to stay on topic, are we not?!

You would save yourself a lot of time, trouble, grief and monotonous postings if you could accept staying on topic.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Publicus

[manarak]

So Snowden is a hypocrite as well as a traitor.

there is no contradiction - it depends on what is leaked - confidential information on matters that are accepted by everybody to be within the government's prerogatives or information about the government (criminally) ignoring civil/human rights.

Reminds me of Evelyn Beatrice Hall who misquoted Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.", which correctly summed up Voltaire's beliefs regarding freedom of expression.

Edited June 29, 2013 by manarak

[Ulysses G.]

What did Voltaire have to say about purposely taking a job in order to steal information that you have sworn not to reveal?

[manarak]

What did Voltaire have to say about purposely taking a job in order to steal information that you have sworn not to reveal?

Snowden said he took to the job to gather further evidence of the NSA surveillance activities - because he intended to reveal it.

If he adopted the stance that the surveillance is against civil and human rights, there is nothing wrong in swearing whatever is needed to get the evidence.

Oaths are not valid when they serve to protect unconstitutional behavior.

[Credo]

If the law is unconstitutional, then take it through the court system and I am sure that if/when it reaches the Supreme Court it will be overturned.

What Snowden has done is inconsequential to the law. The law won't be changed because he squealed to 1/2 the globe. As a matter of fact, he probably did more harm to protecting privacy than he did good.