Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[midas]

US House votes to continue NSA's phone surveillance

"Have we forgot what happened on September 11?

Mike Rogers

House intelligence committee chairman

"Divided opinion in the US about the snooping was highlighted by a CBS News poll on Wednesday.

The survey found that 67% of Americans opposed the government's collection of phone records, but 52% said it was necessary to counter terrorism."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23445231

In this day of electronic communications ( that the powers that be are so keen to monitor ) they could have easily had a kind of referendum using the internet to vote on something so important as this . To leave this kind of decision soley to a handful of so called elected “representatives “is a farce.

Washington hasn't ever conducted an official vote on anything via the internet and for good reasons, such as abuse, security of the process, validity of the outcome, massive logistics, a tremendous expense and for many other valid reasons.

Besides, the House and the Senate each have established an Intelligence Committee which no one in Congress is complaining about, nor expressing fear about. Our elected representatives in both Chambers of the Congress represent the vast center-middle point of view of the body politic, to include my own point of view in the matter.

Only a handful of Americans see a bogeyman in this.

If that's the case its even sadder than I thought.

Are you trying to say a country that can put a man on the moon can't do what other countries with far less resources than USA are now actively engaged in?

http://www.inroadsjournal.ca/making-policy-by-e-referendum/

[midas]

In view of the undertaking he gave to Putin. I wonder how Russia will now react to this? Or did Russia sanction it?

New revelations from former security contractor Edward Snowden that U.S. intelligence agencies have access to a vast online tracking tool came to light on Wednesday, as lawmakers put the secret surveillance programs under greater scrutiny.

The Guardian, citing documents from Snowden, published National Security Agency training materials for the XKeyscore program, which the British newspaper described as the NSA's widest-reaching system that covers "nearly everything a typical user does on the Internet."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/31/us-usa-security-intelligence-idUSBRE96U03320130731

[boomerangutang]

Surveillance of emails and online affiliations (if that's what the raucus is about) is a relatively small price to pay for - increased overall safety. As far as been shown, NSA is not arresting the wrong people, as a result of their online snooping. If it has, let's see a citation to that effect.

[simple1]

Surveillance of emails and online affiliations (if that's what the raucus is about) is a relatively small price to pay for - increased overall safety. As far as been shown, NSA is not arresting the wrong people, as a result of their online snooping. If it has, let's see a citation to that effect.

NSA does not have powers of arrest, it is not a law enforcement agency

[SinglePot]

Surveillance of emails and online affiliations (if that's what the raucus is about) is a relatively small price to pay for - increased overall safety. As far as been shown, NSA is not arresting the wrong people, as a result of their online snooping. If it has, let's see a citation to that effect.

NSA does not have powers of arrest, it is not a law enforcement agency

You know what he meant though.

[Publicus]

US House votes to continue NSA's phone surveillance

"Have we forgot what happened on September 11?

Mike Rogers

House intelligence committee chairman

"Divided opinion in the US about the snooping was highlighted by a CBS News poll on Wednesday.

The survey found that 67% of Americans opposed the government's collection of phone records, but 52% said it was necessary to counter terrorism."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23445231

In this day of electronic communications ( that the powers that be are so keen to monitor ) they could have easily had a kind of referendum using the internet to vote on something so important as this . To leave this kind of decision soley to a handful of so called elected “representatives “is a farce.

Washington hasn't ever conducted an official vote on anything via the internet and for good reasons, such as abuse, security of the process, validity of the outcome, massive logistics, a tremendous expense and for many other valid reasons.

Besides, the House and the Senate each have established an Intelligence Committee which no one in Congress is complaining about, nor expressing fear about. Our elected representatives in both Chambers of the Congress represent the vast center-middle point of view of the body politic, to include my own point of view in the matter.

Only a handful of Americans see a bogeyman in this.

If that's the case its even sadder than I thought.

Are you trying to say a country that can put a man on the moon can't do what other countries with far less resources than USA are now actively engaged in?

http://www.inroadsjournal.ca/making-policy-by-e-referendum/

The United States Government does not have Constitutional authority to conduct elections.

Only the states are authorized by the Constitution to conduct elections, each state, to include election of the president/vice president. A candidate for president must file nomination papers in each state to get on the election ballot of each state, in all 50 states (and, more recently, the District of Columbia).

The Constitution provides the Congress only with the authority to govern the District of Columbia, which recently has come to include elections in the District. Only the Congress is given this Constitutional authority and only for the District of Columbia, i.e., Washington DC. Neither the Executive Branch nor the Judicial Branch of the U.S. Government has the Constitutional authority to conduct an election or elections, to include any referenda.

Because the federal government cannot conduct elections of any kind, anywhere, that which applies to Canada or many other countries does not apply to the United States.

If you want internet voting, you'd have to approach each of the 50 states, and the District of Columbia, to get each of them to do it. Or amend the Constitution to authorize the U.S. Government to conduct a national election or referendum. I wouldn't recommend attempting the latter because the vast majority of Americans would disapprove.

[SinglePot]

Yep. What about this though Pub?

"What is novel is the possibility of extending the use of the Internet beyond voting for politicians to decisions on public policy. Although there are detractors, who mostly highlight security issues involved in conducting the business of the state on the Web, governments are moving ahead. Not only is e-referendum voting technologically feasible, but its also a matter of convenience: decisions can be made from home and office."

Might work if the populace are reliably informed of all the issues before voting.

Sounds like anarchy to me. Why bother to have elected representatives.

[Scott]

This topic is about the NSA and Snowden. Let's stay on topic, please.

[simple1]

Surveillance of emails and online affiliations (if that's what the raucus is about) is a relatively small price to pay for - increased overall safety. As far as been shown, NSA is not arresting the wrong people, as a result of their online snooping. If it has, let's see a citation to that effect.

NSA does not have powers of arrest, it is not a law enforcement agency

You know what he meant though.

Not a mind reader & no idea if the poster understands the NSA cannot actually arrest suspects

[SinglePot]

Surveillance of emails and online affiliations (if that's what the raucus is about) is a relatively small price to pay for - increased overall safety. As far as been shown, NSA is not arresting the wrong people, as a result of their online snooping. If it has, let's see a citation to that effect.

NSA does not have powers of arrest, it is not a law enforcement agency

You know what he meant though.

Not a mind reader & no idea if the poster understands the NSA cannot actually arrest suspects

I think the poster was suggesting that NSA surveillance does not lead to wrongful arrest of innocent citizens.

No doubt he will correct me if necessary.

[wealth]

the latest revelation from Ed is XKeyscore https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/743244-xkeyscore-slidedeck.html

TOTAL SURVEILLANCE

Prism and Tempora are just a level under that

[SinglePot]

the latest revelation from Ed is XKeyscore https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/743244-xkeyscore-slidedeck.html

TOTAL SURVEILLANCE

Prism and Tempora are just a level under that

Looks like a nice piece of kit to identify terrorists to me.

Presumably China, Russia, and Al Queda have seen this slide deck?

[boomerangutang]

I think the poster was suggesting that NSA surveillance does not lead to wrongful arrest of innocent citizens. No doubt he will correct me if necessary.

Thanks SinglePot, you're right, I was referring to arrests resulting from NSA snooping. I didn't say NSA officials with badges pinned to their breasts - would be knocking on peoples' doors at 11 pm with handcuffs ready. Of course, we all cherish privacy, but there's the trade-off with how thoroughly we want special agents snooping for bad guys. Will we sacrifice a bit of privacy for the latter? I would. People with things to hide, may not - but they'll be among the first to raise a hue and cry - when plum targets get bombed by bad guys (reservoirs get poisoned, or power plants get damaged, or a cruise ship gets sunk, or......? ).

Make no mistake, bad guys are busy, all their waking hours, devising ways to <deleted> up Uncle Sam and his closest friends (Europe, Australia/NZ, etc). I'm surprised they haven't done a lot more damage than they have. Perhaps some of the comparative/overall safety of the good guys - can be attributed to efforts of the NSA and CIA. Incidentally, the main biz of the CIA is; trading info with other 'intelligence' agencies. I learned that from my dad, who was a CIA career man, from the time of their transformation from OSS.

Edited August 2, 2013 by boomerangutang

[theblether]

More revelations...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

The Guardian is the home of anti-American readers on the far left end of the political spectrum. Venezuela also is far to the left.

Further, Prof Alan Dershowitz has said Glenn Greenwald is anti-American and loves totalitarian regimes, which resonates with me.

That Snowden went there first and gave the most says a lot about Edward Snowden. That he finds Russia a hospitable place says reams more of negatives about Edward Snowden.

Here's an alternative, realistic, news source:

One Paragraph Sums Up What Edward Snowden Can Expect From His Life In Russia

"The reality that lies before Snowden, however, is not that of a Petersburg slum or a cherry orchard. More likely, he will be given an apartment somewhere in the endless, soulless highrises with filthy stairwells that spread like fields around Moscow's periphery. He will live there for five years before he will be given citizenship. He'll likely be getting constant visits from the SVR (the Russian NSA) to mine the knowledge he carries in his brain."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-snowden-can-during-life-in-russia-2013-7#ixzz2aeOCyftj

That's quite a collection in this, i.e., Snowden, the Guardian, Venezuela, Russia, the CCP-PRC. Snowden hardly could have done worse. Snowden means to inflict harm and injury against the United States, serious and severe harm and injury.

.............and he's going to taunt the US mercilessly for the next few years until the Russians realize what they have done, and around about November 2017 it's going to be announced that Snowden died in a car crash on a remote Russian road.

That's my prediction anyway.

[SinglePot]

I think boomerangutang and theblether make sense.

Snowden's father should have clipped his son round the ear long ago.

Maybe he did.

Snowden saga a very sad story.

[Credo]

I am not surprised at Russia giving him Asylum. The US and Russia are competitors at best and enemies at worst. There is a lot of mutual distrust. Russia is not going to turn someone who is spying for them over to the US and the US isn't going to turn someone is spying for them over to Russia. It's how the game is played.

Unfortunately for Snowden, is a completely replaceable pawn in the game.

[Publicus]

Edward Snowden does not care about personal privacy, individual rights, human rights or the security of the United States. Snowden proves this by his acceptance of temporary asylum in Russia where the Putin government doesn't care about these matters either.

Snowden, Wikileaks and Putin have become inextricably intertwined. Both Snowden and Wikileaks are, at this point, an extension of the Russian government domestically and in Putin's foreign policy. At this point in time, neither Snowden nor Wikileaks are independent or free minded or free acting individuals or organizations. They are in thrall to and collaborators with the Russian government, i.e., Vladimir Putin.

It will please Putin greatly to see Wikileaks publish all of the information, documents, techniques used by U.S. national and global security agencies. The U.S. recently threw out ten Russian spies and this is the kind of tit for tat governments play in the game of espionage and intrigue.

Meanwhile, once Wikileaks gives terrorist organizations around the world information about U.S. national security, the terrorists will be better able to devise attacks against the United States in the United States. If Snowden cared about personal privacy and the rights of the individual against the state, he would have restricted his theft of NSA materials to only the programs that affect U.S. citizens. Instead, however, Snowden took information and documents, along with techniques, concerning how the United States protects itself against attack by foreign terrorists.

Snowden consciously and willfully took vital national security information and techniques that range far beyond information and documents that may directly affect the personal privacy of U.S. citizens in the United States. Snowden took information, documents, techniques that will inform the foreign enemies of the United States of how we protect ourselves against terrorist attacks in the United States.

Everything about Edward Snowden reveals he is not a whistleblower, nor is his doing a service to his country. Snowden has gone far out of bounds in the materials he stole from the NSA and other national security agencies to be considered a whistleblower. Snowden has provided the information to foreign governments.

Snowden's next step against the United States comes when Wikileaks publishes all that Snowden has that goes well beyond matters of personal privacy in the United States. Wikileaks will publish vital national security information, the publication of which will provide terrorists with information and knowledge they desperately seek so they can conduct attacks against the United States in the United States.

And if such attacks do occur, we will get many Patriot Acts and even worse laws. The public will demand it.

Snowden is either hopelessly stupid or is a boldfaced traitor. Neither is a good thing to be.

WikiLeaks cheers Snowden asylum in Russia; rights groups dubious

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-snowden-wikileaks-asylum-20130801,0,5224509.story

Edward Snowden and the WikiLeaks organization that helped him evade extradition to the United States to face espionage charges praised Russia for having “done the right thing” Thursday in granting temporary asylum to the former National Security Agency contractor.

In a statement posted on its website, WikiLeaks denounced the Obama administration for its "bellicose response" to the American fugitive’s search for refuge from U.S. prosecution for disclosing top-secret NSA data surveillance operations.

Lyudmila Alexeyeva, head of the human rights advocates of the Moscow Helsinki Group, said it was good that Snowden had finally escaped his protracted ordeal in the transit area of the capital’s main airport but noted that he now finds himself in a country with little regard for the ideals of freedom he professes.

"Having fought for the freedom and rights, Snowden has ended up in a country that cracks down on them," Alexeyeva was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency.

Human Rights Watch analysts also took note of the irony of the Kremlin coming to the defense of a self-styled champion of privacy and free speech rights.

"He cannot but be aware of the unprecedented crackdown on human rights that the government has unleashed in the past 15 months," Rachel Denber, the rights group's spokesperson said.

Wikileaks' Statement on Snowden’s Successful Russian Asylum Bid

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-on-Snowden-s-Successful.html

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange said "This is another victory in the fight against Obama’s war on whistleblowers. This battle has been won, but the war continues. The United States can no longer continue the surveillance of world citizens and its digital colonization of sovereign nations.

WikiLeaks urges that the US government amends its ways, reverse this trend and re-establish its moral authority. We will continue to defend Mr Snowden and urge the United States government to respect its constitution and international law.

I would point out that Assange always has left open the matter of publishing all of the information Snowden has about the national security of the United States. Neither Assange nor Snowden are assuring us that terrorists whose every thought is to destroy the United States won't ever find out from Snowden or Wikileaks the vital national security information that protects us from the terrorists.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

Strange things are already happening to good people, negative things. It's the new Putin, Assange, Snowden nexus.

Before Snowden, Wikileaks had already become an arm of Putin's policies, both domestic and foreign. Putin must be funding Wikileaks with all the money it needs, and probably then some.

Edward Snowden Walked Right Into An Alliance Between Wikileaks And Russia

http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-assange-wikileaks-and-russia-2013-8

One thing that has become clear as the Edward Snowden saga unfolds is that WikiLeaks and Russia have both been integral to the NSA leaker's arrival and extended stay in Moscow.

• December, 2010: Israel Shamir, a long-standing associate of Wikileaks traveled to Belarus, a close ally of Russia, in December with a cache of Wikileaks files. Belarussian authorities published the cables and cracked down, harshly, on pro-democracy activists
• April 17, 2012: Government-funded Russian TV station RT gives [WikiLeaks founder] Julian Assange his own talk show.

And there's more:

The Intel In Snowden's Head Could Be More Damaging Than The Material He Leaked

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-has-classified-intel-in-his-head-2013-7#ixzz2asD5mzMJ

National Security Agency whistleblower/leaker Edward Snowden reportedly flew to Hong Kong carrying "four laptop computers that enable him to gain access to some of the US government's most highly-classified secrets," raising the concern that data could have been compromised in China or Russia.

But the information in his head may be more valuable, and accessible, than highly encrypted files.

Beyond trying to acquire information about the 10,000 NSA files Snowden accessed in Hawaii, a U.S. adversary would want to learn from Snowden's expertise of internal NSA processes — such as its recruiting and vetting processes — to gain insight into America's decision loop.

Edited for fair use

[F430murci]

Strange things are already happening to good people, negative things. It's the new Putin, Assange, Snowden nexus.

Before Snowden, Wikileaks had already become an arm of Putin's policies, both domestic and foreign. Putin must be funding Wikileaks with all the money it needs, and probably then some.

Edward Snowden Walked Right Into An Alliance Between Wikileaks And Russia

http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-assange-wikileaks-and-russia-2013-8

One thing that has become clear as the Edward Snowden saga unfolds is that WikiLeaks and Russia have both been integral to the NSA leaker's arrival and extended stay in Moscow.

• December, 2010: Israel Shamir, a long-standing associate of Wikileaks traveled to Belarus, a close ally of Russia, in December with a cache of Wikileaks files. Belarussian authorities published the cables and cracked down, harshly, on pro-democracy activists
• April 17, 2012: Government-funded Russian TV station RT gives [WikiLeaks founder] Julian Assange his own talk show.

And there's more:

The Intel In Snowden's Head Could Be More Damaging Than The Material He Leaked

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-has-classified-intel-in-his-head-2013-7#ixzz2asD5mzMJ

National Security Agency whistleblower/leaker Edward Snowden reportedly flew to Hong Kong carrying "four laptop computers that enable him to gain access to some of the US government's most highly-classified secrets," raising the concern that data could have been compromised in China or Russia.

But the information in his head may be more valuable, and accessible, than highly encrypted files.

Beyond trying to acquire information about the 10,000 NSA files Snowden accessed in Hawaii, a U.S. adversary would want to learn from Snowden's expertise of internal NSA processes such as its recruiting and vetting processes to gain insight into America's decision loop.

"Snowden understood exactly how far he could push [the NSA]," Robert Caruso, a former assistant command security manager in the Navy and consultant, told Business Insider. "That, coupled with his successful exploitation of our entire vetting process, makes him very dangerous."

Interesting how people said I was full of shit when I said exactly the same thing a month or so ago.

[Publicus]

Interesting how people said I was full of shit when I said exactly the same thing a month or so ago.

I don't recall. I don't doubt you. I just don't recall.

[SinglePot]

I do Pub.

well done guys.

[Publicus]

I do Pub.

well done guys.

Well, that's a statement with corroboration - two reliable sources so I cheerfully go with it, thx.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Publicus

[SinglePot]

And theblether's long range forecast could prove remarkably accurate also.

[Publicus]

It's patently obvious by now that Wikileaks is in bed with Russia. Vladimir Putin and Julian Assange have become comfortable bedfellows.

Wikileaks provided documents to the corrupt Stalinist dictator of Belarus, Aleksandr Lukashenka, who remains one of Vladimir Putin's best friends in the world. One reason Putin is such pals with Lukashenka is that Belarus still has the old Soviet KGB organization which Putin used to work for before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The Wikileaks documents from Assange were provided to Lukashenka so he could brutally repress pro-democracy groups in Belarus. Israel Shamir, who is connected to Assange, Putin and Wikileaks delivered the Wikileaks documents to Lukashenka that brought on the brutal crackdown.

Putin, Assange and Wikileaks, and Edward Snowden are a nexus of bad news for the United States. If Edward Snowden is a whistle blower, then Putin is the train.

Wikileaks, Snowden, and the Belarus Connection

http://20committee.com/2013/07/06/wikileaks-snowden-and-the-belarus-connection/

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, after his recent trip to Moscow, went home via Belarus, where he celebrated independence festivities in Minsk with President – or as Maduro called him, “Comrade President” – Aleksandr Lukashenka. Maduro’s predecessor, the late Hugo Chavez, visited Belarus five times, which really stood out because virtually no heads of state visit Minsk these days, thanks to Belarus’s awful record as Europe’s only repressive dictatorship.

There the secret police, still termed the KGB (it would have cost a fortune to change the letterhead), keeps a lid on dissent in a way that dismays virtually everyone in Europe. In recent years, Vladimir Putin, once a strong supporter of the weird Lukashenka neo-Soviet cult, has put some distance between Moscow and Minsk because nobody outside quasi-Stalinist circles wants to be publicly associated with Belarus.

Israel Shamir of Wikileaks personally delivered the Wikileaks documents to Lukashenka. The role of Shamir in Wikileaks, as well as his bizarre views, began to get noticed in late 2010, with an expose in Reason that asked just what was going on here, quoting Shamir as calling Jews “a virus in human form” and boasting of his Holocaust denial. Importantly, that piece had an admission by Kristinn Hrafnsson, Wikileaks spokesman, when asked directly about the group’s links with Shamir: ”Yes. Yes, he is associated with us.”

Wikileaks is one of the few organizations with kind words about Lukashenka – which, given the awful record of the Belarusian KGB against the press and dissidents is an odd position for an “anti-secrecy” group to take – and here’s where things get interesting. The key figure in all this is Israel Shamir, who is one of the oddest and shadiest characters you’d ever want to meet. Importantly, he’s been telling everyone for years that he’s the Wikileaks representative for Russia and Belarus. He has gone to bat for the latter country and has been involved in discrediting Belarusian dissidents – which, given how badly Minsk treats such people, is no trivial matter.

One need not be a counterintelligence guru to have serious questions about Shamir and Wikileaks here. It may be a much bigger part of the story than it appears to the naked eye.

[manarak]

Edward Snowden does not care about personal privacy, individual rights, human rights or the security of the United States. Snowden proves this by his acceptance of temporary asylum in Russia where the Putin government doesn't care about these matters either.

Snowden, Wikileaks and Putin have become inextricably intertwined. Both Snowden and Wikileaks are, at this point, an extension of the Russian government domestically and in Putin's foreign policy. At this point in time, neither Snowden nor Wikileaks are independent or free minded or free acting individuals or organizations. They are in thrall to and collaborators with the Russian government, i.e., Vladimir Putin.

Snowden has no choice - saying that because he accepts asylum in Russia, he thus embraces Russia's policies is abusive and manipulative, intellectually dishonest.

Regarding the Wikileaks-Russia connection, the definitely is something there, at least there are common goals.

As everyone in the western world is already supplied with daily anti-Russian propaganda, it might be in Russia's interest if Wikileaks revels dirty secrets, showing that western governments are far from being as angelic as they pretend.

The connection is through Israel Shamir - an interesting person, said to be antisemitic and holocaust denier. I wasn't able to find direct proof of this however, but what's certai is that he is anti-zionist.

The question is who really personally runs wikileaks while Assange is immobilized.

I guess Shamir (himself a Swedish citizen) is very influential there, and and of his sons is the spokesman of wikileaks in Sweden.

And how to explain that the Shamir family wasn't ostracized from wikileaks after the incident with Lukashenko?

There definitely is a connection there.

[Scott]

Posts violating fair use policy have been edited. Please follow the rules about fair use in quoting sources.

[Publicus]

Edward Snowden does not care about personal privacy, individual rights, human rights or the security of the United States. Snowden proves this by his acceptance of temporary asylum in Russia where the Putin government doesn't care about these matters either.

Snowden, Wikileaks and Putin have become inextricably intertwined. Both Snowden and Wikileaks are, at this point, an extension of the Russian government domestically and in Putin's foreign policy. At this point in time, neither Snowden nor Wikileaks are independent or free minded or free acting individuals or organizations. They are in thrall to and collaborators with the Russian government, i.e., Vladimir Putin.

Snowden has no choice - saying that because he accepts asylum in Russia, he thus embraces Russia's policies is abusive and manipulative, intellectually dishonest.

Regarding the Wikileaks-Russia connection, the definitely is something there, at least there are common goals.

As everyone in the western world is already supplied with daily anti-Russian propaganda, it might be in Russia's interest if Wikileaks revels dirty secrets, showing that western governments are far from being as angelic as they pretend.

The connection is through Israel Shamir - an interesting person, said to be antisemitic and holocaust denier. I wasn't able to find direct proof of this however, but what's certai is that he is anti-zionist.

The question is who really personally runs wikileaks while Assange is immobilized.

I guess Shamir (himself a Swedish citizen) is very influential there, and and of his sons is the spokesman of wikileaks in Sweden.

And how to explain that the Shamir family wasn't ostracized from wikileaks after the incident with Lukashenko?

There definitely is a connection there.

Wikileaks does not appear to be an independent, unaffiliated, unattached organization dedicated to impartial disclosure without fear or favor.

Wikilieaks has had ties to Vladimir Putin, which is news to most of us. Assange moreover has had ties to Putin for a considerable period of time, most of it on the QT.

It appears Wikileaks may be getting funding from Putin. It also appears that Putin has provided some very shadowy and shady characters to Wikileaks, such as Israel Shamir and who knows which other dubious off center characters.

Snowden clearly made a huge error of judgement to connect to Wikileaks, apparently while in Hong Kong, and to accept Wikileaks offer to facilitate with Putin his travel to Moscow.

The Boyz in Beijing ejected Snowden from the CCP-PRC, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, so Snowden had to hit the road without delay. It's also clear now that Snowden's going to Hong Kong was Snowden's first error of judgement in fleeing the United States with his global intelligence secrets.

Snowden might have done better to try to get directly to Equador, or as directly to Equador as possible, rather than fly to Moscow where Wikileaks and Putin have been in league for some time and were two foxes waiting for the chicken to arrive.

One direct outcome of these recent developments and revelations is that Wikileaks clearly appears to be an appendage of Putin and his international relations and policies, which is never good news for the United States and its allies.

Wikileaks is not an impartial organization of disclosure. It is an extension of Putin and his agendas.

There's always been a lot to me about Assange that doesn't quite meet the eye.

[manarak]

I agree, and it now fully explains the amount of energy spent by the us and allies to have assange prosecuted in sweden for bullshit charges. If assange is a player in the propaganda world, it explains everything.

I'm not sure though that snowden's collaboration with wikileaks was snowden's will, because he started to share his docs with uk journalists.

When he got ejected from hk and the us canceled his passport, wikileaks and its russian ties may have been his only way out.

Maybe assange played snowden into putin's hands deliberately.

It will be interesting to see how the story develops. My scenario of snowden getting a new russian identity and coming to live in thailand with us still holds

[SinglePot]

Well I won't be buying him a beer, that' s for sure.

[Publicus]

I agree, and it now fully explains the amount of energy spent by the us and allies to have assange prosecuted in sweden for bullshit charges. If assange is a player in the propaganda world, it explains everything.

I'm not sure though that snowden's collaboration with wikileaks was snowden's will, because he started to share his docs with uk journalists.

When he got ejected from hk and the us canceled his passport, wikileaks and its russian ties may have been his only way out.

Maybe assange played snowden into putin's hands deliberately.

It will be interesting to see how the story develops. My scenario of snowden getting a new russian identity and coming to live in thailand with us still holds

Everything you say makes excellent sense and provides a clear analysis of these bizarre developments.

I would just say, however - also with a certain smile - that if Thailand gave up Viktor Bout to the US despite heavy pressure from Putin to send Bout home to Putin instead, I doubt the former LOS would accept someone as hot to the touch as Snowden has become and will always be.

Putin has given Snowden a year in Russia, which will be more than enough time for Assange and Putin to get all they want to publish in Wikileaks. After that, Snowden will have to swim to Venezuela.

I mean, when was the last time - or the only time - Wikileaks published any expose' of the CCP-PRC or of Russia itself? Where's Wikileaks' expose' of al Qaeda, its operations, its leaders etc?

Instead Wikileaks gets info from U.S. sources and busts the most sensitive intelligence and counter terrorism operations of the United States which rightfully are conducted to defend the United States.

Meanwhile, the real bad guys in international espionage, cyber theft, outright spying or terrorism get away free, getting no exposure in either the press/media or in any other forum.

Well I won't be buying him a beer, that' s for sure.

You're buying beers?

Where are you now???