Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[Publicus]

If anyone's doing overkill it's Snowden.

Snowden went beyond domestic programs to external national security programs and operations. Whatever point Snowden may have had by his actions - if indeed he ever had a point to them - are lost in his theft of thousands of documents related to the global security of the United States.

A certain number of U.S. citizens are grateful to him for his actions regarding domestic surveillance programs.

They're not so sure however he's benefitting the United States by climbing into bed with Vladimir Putin and Putin's pal Julian Assange where the three of them can have an orgy of sorts reading the global security means, methods, techniques of the U.S. foreign intelligence services.

Snowden has shown no limits to his actions.

Honestly: how many of the Snowden documents do you think would have been published if he had pulled his stunt within the US with a major US newspaper other major media?

And what would have been the odds of the media withholding the story for "national security" reasons and Snowden put into a secret jail after being judged by a secret court?

My god. Where have you been the past few months?

It's been pointed out from the beginning of Snowden's misadventures that the appropriate place for him to go was the Congress, which makes the laws he's so certain are being abused by the Executive Branch and the Fisa Courts.

There are 435 representatives in the House and 100 senators in the Senate. Since Snowden's disclosures of the domestic surveillance programs two senators have been consistently vocal about the same concerns Snowden has expressed. Sen Ron Wyden and Sen Mark Udall, both Democrats, are definitely on the case.

All Snowden had to do was a little homework to identify sympathetic Members of Congress, go to 'em, spill the beans and sit back to watch the Congress get on the case, all the while becoming a hero and not having to flee the United States or to be charged under the Espionage Act.

Instead, Snowden decided to become a drama queen about it.

The Congress is where a genuine whistleblower goes to rat out bureaucracy and government wrongdoing, at least in the eyes of the beholder.

So now Snowden is trapped in Russia by the U.S. Government where ironically he has begun to serve his punishment for his rash, brash, arrogant and juvenile behaviors.

As has been pointed out, in a Shakespearean sense, the guy who was so certain he was going to change everyone's fate has now lost control of his own fate. We can even go back in time to the classic Greek dramas in this one.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Publicus

[F430murci]

I mean, the best thing to do if you find yourself in Russia is to get out. I've never been to Russia and with good reason.

Well, you have no knowledge but make statements none the less.

I have been to Russia, and I don't share F430murci's opinions about seclusion and controlled communications.

Russia's FSB doesn't have the same means at their disposal as the US.

If Snowden wanted to communicate, he could do so and he could probably also keep his communications' content a secret if he wanted. Moscow is full of wifi places.

Not just my view, but just about everyone's view from Russia that can speak somewhat freely about the situation. And then we have history of how Russia has treated similar individuals in the past. No freedom of movement and very depressing situation.

-----

But the secrecy that surrounded Snowdens time at the Moscow airport and his unwillingness so far to talk to the press indicates he is being controlled by Russian intelligence, Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist who co-authored a book on the Russian intelligence services said.

Does he have independent sources of information and communication? My impression is that he has none, which means hes not his own master, Soldatov said.

. . .

One of the reasons for keeping Snowden isolated may be to prevent him from speaking about the people he met and what really happened to him during the 39 days he spent in the airports transit zone

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/lawyer-snowden-has-a-place-to-live-in-russia-still-figuring-out-what-he-will-do/2013/08/02/197ca9c4-fb67-11e2-89f7-8599e3f77a67_story.html

Before Philby died of heart failure in 1988, he was under constant Russian surveillance and his entire life was bugged. Philby knew this and drank heavily to numb the pain of his hellish existence, suffered severe depression, on more than one occasion slashed his wrists, and told his wife that his earlier belief in the communist dream had turned out to be utterly wrong.

Burgess and Maclean suffered a similar existence in Moscow, until their deaths.

Philby got nothing but Russian pain, despite what he did for the motherland.

Snowdens prospects are worse because hes not a top Russian spy like Philby. Instead, hes a nomadic snitch with a grudge. Putin formerly a colonel in the KGB will view him as such.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/08/02/can-snowden-survive-russia-and-putin/#ixzz2b5zZGny5

My opinion is that the above is wildly exagerated.

Andrei Soldatov may also not be a stranger to the world of propaganda, maybe his role is to discourage others from doing the same as Snowden. The whole overkill in US efforts to get Snowden can only be understood in the way that the US are shitting their pants that others will reveal more dirty secrets and therefore want to make an "example" of Snowden.

Regarding Snowden's status in Russia, Putin is no idiot and he certainly won't apply to Snowden the same treatment as the soviets applied to Philby - which happened ample time before this century even begun. In this case, why not say the US will have Snowden executed by a hitman, because the US used assassinations in the 20th century, and because they did it during the WWII aftermath, they wuill do it again now... just to demonstrate how ridiculous the Philby argument is.

The Russians can't keep Snowden isolated and they can't control his communications. They can make a deal with Snowden about what he is required to keep secret, but they can't control him other than by threatening his life.

That wildly exaggerated opinion was from a former MI6 operative working around the world in hostile locations.

Ask Alexi Navalny about Putin's ability to shut someone up . . . Oh, you can't. He is arrested and gone away now after opposing Putin in 2011 and using vk to muster up 300,000 demonstrators . . . . and Durov is on the run and has not been seen since when???

Please, please cite me one credible source other than yourself who says Russia cannot and will not keep a tight lid on Snowden. I have cited a litany of sources in addition to the one with which you took issue.

[chuckd]

He has been granted asylum by Russia. He is not wanted in Russia. If he comes to your home, who do you call? The Russian police? The US Embassy?

I don't think the laws to which you are referring extend outside the USA. They did not help him escape.

I don't know for sure and maybe one of our legal eagles can shed more light on this.

I'm a citizen of the United States and subject to its code of laws whether I'm at home or abroad.

If I harbor a fugitive from US justice at my expat home in a foreign country I've violated a US law. As a citizen, I'm culpable, a perp.

The asylum is not recognized by US law.

If Snowden today tried to fly to, say, Venezuela, the U.S. Government would go after him. Any asylum papers would get tossed into the garbage can.

Then the US Government would come after me, or wait for me. I'd probably lose the passport by revocation during the commotion.

U.S. sovereignty trumps any other foreign government's laws or actions. The UN Amnesty Treaty/Convention has its provisos and caveats.

We're talking espionage here, not advocating democracy in the CCP-PRC.

Snowden isn't Aung San Suu Kyi.

Perhaps your zeal to have the book thrown at Snowden or anybody that might assist him is an overreach.

Here are the basic requirements for federal charges of harboring a fugitive:

"Harboring a fugitive refers to the crime of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities. Federal and state laws, which vary by state, govern the crime of harboring a fugitive. Although supplying funds may make one an accessory after the fact, supplying financial assistance to a fugitive does not rise to the level of harboring or concealing.

The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1071, requires proof of four elements: (1) proof that a federal warrant had been issued for the fugitive' s arrest, (2) that the accused had knowledge that a warrant had been issued, (3) that the accused actually harbored or concealed the fugitive, and (4) that the accused intended to prevent the fugitive' s discovery or arrest."

Since the world knows it was a US expat that gave him quarters, it would seem they would not be falling afoul of the law. I'm certain if the FBI showed up at their front door and asked to speak to Snowden, they would grant him entry and let Snowden decide whether he wanted to talk or not.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harboring-a-fugitive/

The only question concerns Item #2. I don't see it as a practical question however, as the US expat(s) in Russia would have to be deaf, dumb, blind not to know of Snowden.

One question at a time, however. What makes you so sure the US expat(s) harboring him in Russia would be so cooperative? The question is conjecture given we don't know if the FBI is allowed by Putin to be present or operating in Russia, based in the US Embassy.

The definition of harboring clearly states "it requires proof of four elements", which means 4 for 4. This ain't horse shoes.

Bingo. You answered your own question about the expat family allegedly providing accomnmodations for Snowden. The FBI has a presence in all embassies, including Moscow, and the Russians know exactly who it is. They have no authority outside the Embassy structure.

There is no threat to this unknown and, perhaps imaginary, family of expats.

[metisdead]

Duplicate posts and off topic posts have been removed. If you want to discuss the Embassy closures, that's another topic altogether.

[manarak]

That wildly exaggerated opinion was from a former MI6 operative working around the world in hostile locations.

Ask Alexi Navalny about Putin's ability to shut someone up . . . Oh, you can't. He is arrested and gone away now after opposing Putin in 2011 and using vk to muster up 300,000 demonstrators . . . . and Durov is on the run and has not been seen since when???

Please, please cite me one credible source other than yourself who says Russia cannot and will not keep a tight lid on Snowden. I have cited a litany of sources in addition to the one with which you took issue.

How do you know this is really his opinion or a part of a script?

US propaganda is alive and well - it was previously anticommunist, now it is directed at Russia and China. Some of it is true, but it's not before you actually go and visit the country that you realize a lot of it is exagerated and reality is far from the hell described.

And the cases you quote are very different from Snowden's... Snowden doesn't want to compete with Putin for power. Navalny was free to express his opinions. Until he went to prison.

And regarding your opinion that Snowden should have contacted congress about his doubts: the most probably scenario is that if he had gone to the congress with his evidence is that it would have ended up with the Congress' committee for intelligence oversight (or something similar) and they would have put a lid on it.

And Snowden would possibly have been charged, since I don't think Congressmen automatically obtain clearance for secret material.

I guess Snowden thought that most of the Congress approves the NSA's surveillance as a necessary evil, and the rest of congress is bound to secrecy and can't reveal the truth to the citizens.

[F430murci]

That wildly exaggerated opinion was from a former MI6 operative working around the world in hostile locations.

Ask Alexi Navalny about Putin's ability to shut someone up . . . Oh, you can't. He is arrested and gone away now after opposing Putin in 2011 and using vk to muster up 300,000 demonstrators . . . . and Durov is on the run and has not been seen since when???

Please, please cite me one credible source other than yourself who says Russia cannot and will not keep a tight lid on Snowden. I have cited a litany of sources in addition to the one with which you took issue.

How do you know this is really his opinion or a part of a script?

US propaganda is alive and well - it was previously anticommunist, now it is directed at Russia and China. Some of it is true, but it's not before you actually go and visit the country that you realize a lot of it is exagerated and reality is far from the hell described.

And the cases you quote are very different from Snowden's... Snowden doesn't want to compete with Putin for power. Navalny was free to express his opinions. Until he went to prison.

And regarding your opinion that Snowden should have contacted congress about his doubts: the most probably scenario is that if he had gone to the congress with his evidence is that it would have ended up with the Congress' committee for intelligence oversight (or something similar) and they would have put a lid on it.

And Snowden would possibly have been charged, since I don't think Congressmen automatically obtain clearance for secret material.

I guess Snowden thought that most of the Congress approves the NSA's surveillance as a necessary evil, and the rest of congress is bound to secrecy and can't reveal the truth to the citizens.

I never said anything about Snowden going Congress. I have always been of the belief he would have just been telling them what they already knew.

Everything in Russia is already an exaggeration. No need for US or anyone to do that for them. My beliefs regarding Russia have zilch to do with US media and everything to do with people from there and living there now that are pretty tied. I only cite stuff supporting what I have said since the first day Snowden arrived in Moscow.

[F430murci]

Now this may be an exaggeration, but funny none the less.

Column: Snowden's sweet liberty

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/column-snowdens-sweet-liberty/2134919

[manarak]

That wildly exaggerated opinion was from a former MI6 operative working around the world in hostile locations.

Ask Alexi Navalny about Putin's ability to shut someone up . . . Oh, you can't. He is arrested and gone away now after opposing Putin in 2011 and using vk to muster up 300,000 demonstrators . . . . and Durov is on the run and has not been seen since when???

Please, please cite me one credible source other than yourself who says Russia cannot and will not keep a tight lid on Snowden. I have cited a litany of sources in addition to the one with which you took issue.

How do you know this is really his opinion or a part of a script?

US propaganda is alive and well - it was previously anticommunist, now it is directed at Russia and China. Some of it is true, but it's not before you actually go and visit the country that you realize a lot of it is exagerated and reality is far from the hell described.

And the cases you quote are very different from Snowden's... Snowden doesn't want to compete with Putin for power. Navalny was free to express his opinions. Until he went to prison.

And regarding your opinion that Snowden should have contacted congress about his doubts: the most probably scenario is that if he had gone to the congress with his evidence is that it would have ended up with the Congress' committee for intelligence oversight (or something similar) and they would have put a lid on it.

And Snowden would possibly have been charged, since I don't think Congressmen automatically obtain clearance for secret material.

I guess Snowden thought that most of the Congress approves the NSA's surveillance as a necessary evil, and the rest of congress is bound to secrecy and can't reveal the truth to the citizens.

I never said anything about Snowden going Congress. I have always been of the belief he would have just been telling them what they already knew.

Everything in Russia is already an exaggeration. No need for US or anyone to do that for them. My beliefs regarding Russia have zilch to do with US media and everything to do with people from there and living there now that are pretty tied. I only cite stuff supporting what I have said since the first day Snowden arrived in Moscow.

sorry - the last paragraph in my post was directed at Publicus' comments

[SinglePot]

Continuing criticism about US Government mishandling of national security is becoming rather tiresome and boring for me.

A great deal of this appears to be due to Snowden. Critics of Obama may, and probably will say, it is just the tip of an iceberg and there are many examples of US Government inadequacy, failure to maintain the constitutional rights of US citizens, contravention of the 4th amendment, and activity which is either illegal or bordering on illegal.

Frankly, I am tired of the bashing of the US Government and would prefer to see people getting behind Obama as the world emerges into the cyber age, out of the Cold War era and into a new age where the true enemies of US citizens are undemocratic or fascist dictatorships* and evil terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda who everybody thought were on the defensive when the perpetrator of vicious and sordid murders, Bin Laden, was eliminated.

* Russia, China, North Korea, various South American countries prepared to give Snowden asylum, and others.

Good evening.

[manarak]

Continuing criticism about US Government mishandling of national security is becoming rather tiresome and boring for me.

A great deal of this appears to be due to Snowden. Critics of Obama may, and probably will say, it is just the tip of an iceberg and there are many examples of US Government inadequacy, failure to maintain the constitutional rights of US citizens, contravention of the 4th amendment, and activity which is either illegal or bordering on illegal.

Frankly, I am tired of the bashing of the US Government and would prefer to see people getting behind Obama as the world emerges into the cyber age, out of the Cold War era and into a new age where the true enemies of US citizens are undemocratic or fascist dictatorships* and evil terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda who everybody thought were on the defensive when the perpetrator of vicious and sordid murders, Bin Laden, was eliminated.

* Russia, China, North Korea, various South American countries prepared to give Snowden asylum, and others.

Good evening.

Being tired of it doesn't help setting things right.

It's not about Obama.

It's about western democracies (not just the US) committing suicide by slipping more and more into totalitarism under pressure from terrorists.

[midas]

Continuing criticism about US Government mishandling of national security is becoming rather tiresome and boring for me.

A great deal of this appears to be due to Snowden. Critics of Obama may, and probably will say, it is just the tip of an iceberg and there are many examples of US Government inadequacy, failure to maintain the constitutional rights of US citizens, contravention of the 4th amendment, and activity which is either illegal or bordering on illegal.

Frankly, I am tired of the bashing of the US Government and would prefer to see people getting behind Obama as the world emerges into the cyber age, out of the Cold War era and into a new age where the true enemies of US citizens are undemocratic or fascist dictatorships* and evil terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda who everybody thought were on the defensive when the perpetrator of vicious and sordid murders, Bin Laden, was eliminated.

* Russia, China, North Korea, various South American countries prepared to give Snowden asylum, and others.

Good evening.

Yes, well people who obviously have no respect whatsoever for the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution would obviously say something like that, wouldn't they?

The latest revelations about the NSA feeding information to the DEA so that they in turn can stitch up whoever they want that are suspected of being criminals, but then blatantly lying about the true circumstances of the alleged crime should be positively terrifying for US citizens.

This latest scandal (yet another one) involving the NSA should really wake people up to the possibility that American citizens are witnessing the manifestation of a true totalitarian state.

Coupled with a penal system that is now increasingly reliant on private prisons that are in turn reliant on achieving and maintaining maximum occupancy rates in these jail's. The absolute irony is that these facilities to are in turn owned by companies whose major shareholders such as JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs who themselves have perpetuated fraud in the global financial crisis.

Thank heavens that the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court only yesterday while on his own cellphone acknowledged that the Supreme Court is very likely going to need to rule on all this invasion of privacy by NSA.

The sooner the better, because either America does have a 4th Amendment to the Constitution which should be adhered to and respected or in effect there has been a " coup " by the Obama administration against Americans

Edited August 6, 2013 by midas

[midas]

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

Don't have time to read closely, but is this saying DEA is using NSA stuff to target domestic drug cases and etc. If so, that is beyond troubling.

It's much, much worse than that. I believe you are a lawyer? I was listening to judge Andrew Napolitano. He was absolutely outraged. It's not that they are targeting drug cases even though you think that is troubling. Its the fact that after the NSA has been tipping off the DEA about alleged suspects but that after that the DEA completely fabricates the circumstances to allow them to pursue the alleged criminals. This is blatant lying.?

There is no such thing as natural justice in the USA if this is going on?

Edited August 6, 2013 by midas

[F430murci]

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

Don't have time to read closely, but is this saying DEA is using NSA stuff to target domestic drug cases and etc. If so, that is beyond troubling.

It's much, much worse than that. I believe you are a lawyer? I was listening to judge Andrew Napolitano. He was absolutely outraged. It's not that they are targeting drug cases even though you think that is troubling. Its the fact that after the NSA has been tipping off the DEA about alleged suspects but that after that the DEA completely fabricates the circumstances to allow them to pursue the alleged criminals. This is blatant lying.?

There is no such thing as natural justice in the USA if this is going on?

I have no problem with NSA surveillance without warrant on foreign soil for terrorist purposes as 4th would not seem to apply to non domestic.

I have minor problems with NSA conducting surveillance for terrorism purposes domestically through use of warrants issued by FISA. This is troubling, but nothing can be done about it now or anytime soon.

I am troubled by Facebook et al monitoring so much of our data and think this is a huge problem because they are private, doing it for money or commerce and they assimilate this information for easy access by government. Truth be known, little selfish geeks like Zuckerburg deserve a nice ass whopping more than neighborhood watch types.

Any cross exchange of information by NSA and DEA or other branches for investigation into regular domestic criminal activities is beyond comprehension and someone should be impeached if true. The I didn't know what my own people were doing defense is no defense here.

[F430murci]

Wonder if Putin would trade Snowden for this poor guy (Browser) and dang about his lawyer. Throw poor guy in jail, beat him, deny medical treatment and let him rot until he dies.

I am sure Snowden lawyer knows all about Sergi Magnitsky. Sergi was a whistleblower just like Snowden.

-----

At a time when the news is being made by refusals to grant extradition, from whistleblower Edward Snowdens to financier Bill Browders, as well as the politicization of Russias courts . . .

. . .

Interpol has refused a Russian request to issue an international arrest warrant for controversial hedge fund manager Bill Browder. Although the Russian Interior Ministry claims it was puzzled by the decision . . .

Browder was an early investor in Russia, co-founding Hermitage Capital in 1996. . . . In 2007, Hermitage officers were raided by the police. . . . In 2008, one of Browders lawyers, Sergei Magnitsky, was arrested: after eleven months of pre-trial detention, he died in prison, having been denied medical treatment.

http://blogs.blouinnews.com/blouinbeatpolitics/2013/07/28/interpol-wont-arrest-moscows-foreign-enemy-number-one/

Edited August 6, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

This is how Russia deals with their own whistleblowers. Snowden us in good hands . . . Poor guy just made a wrong turn trying to get from Hong Kong to South America.

-----

Russia convicts dead whistleblower

MOSCOW A Russian court wrapped up the trial of a dead man Thursday, finding whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky guilty of fraud but waiving a sentence.

Magnitsky was a lawyer who unearthed a $230 million fraud by police and tax officials, but he was arrested and charged with perpetrating the fraud himself. He died in a Moscow prison in 2009, apparently after a severe beating.

Outrage over his case inspired a U.S. law imposing financial and visa sanctions on corrupt Russian officials, which in turn led to a Russian law banning American adoptions of Russian children.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-convicts-dead-whistleblower/2013/07/11/b07b99f4-ea17-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html

[SinglePot]

Mr Obama has much more serious issues to consider than a few people shooting their mouth off on social media.

Smiley bloke doing a wai.

[SinglePot]

Continuing criticism about US Government mishandling of national security is becoming rather tiresome and boring for me.

A great deal of this appears to be due to Snowden. Critics of Obama may, and probably will say, it is just the tip of an iceberg and there are many examples of US Government inadequacy, failure to maintain the constitutional rights of US citizens, contravention of the 4th amendment, and activity which is either illegal or bordering on illegal.

Frankly, I am tired of the bashing of the US Government and would prefer to see people getting behind Obama as the world emerges into the cyber age, out of the Cold War era and into a new age where the true enemies of US citizens are undemocratic or fascist dictatorships* and evil terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda who everybody thought were on the defensive when the perpetrator of vicious and sordid murders, Bin Laden, was eliminated.

* Russia, China, North Korea, various South American countries prepared to give Snowden asylum, and others.

Good evening.

Being tired of it doesn't help setting things right.

It's not about Obama.

It's about western democracies (not just the US) committing suicide by slipping more and more into totalitarism under pressure from terrorists.

Try living in China.

Obama competes with gunslingers from the front.

Obama competes with gunslingers from behind.

[Scott]

Let's please stick to the topic, which is the NSA and security related information.

[F430murci]

I think this is a real bad move, although at least he went through with it after making the threat.

Power plays like this with Putin are no more than a dick measuring contest that neither can win and that will serve no benefit to our countries.

__________

Obama cancels Putin meeting amid tensions over Snowden

Philip Rucker 10:30 AM ET

In rare diplomatic snub, president nixes one-on-one scheduled to take place ahead of next month’s G-20 summit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

Edited August 7, 2013 by F430murci

[SinglePot]

Snowden is trouble.

Dead simple.

[chuckd]

I think this is a real bad move, although at least he went through with it after making the threat.

Power plays like this with Putin are no more than a dick measuring contest that neither can win and that will serve no benefit to our countries.

__________

Obama cancels Putin meeting amid tensions over Snowden

Philip Rucker 10:30 AM ET

In rare diplomatic snub, president nixes one-on-one scheduled to take place ahead of next month’s G-20 summit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

I'm certain Putin is destroyed over the snub.

[SinglePot]

Concern over Snowden's welfare is probably killing Putin too.

[F430murci]

Edward Snowdens Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/08/lavabit-snowden/

[F430murci]

Haha!!!!!!

Is the Gurdian decently reliable or crap like the National Enquirer. I mean they still talk about the Durov offer for vk position . . .

This is funny though. Snowden, you are about broke, but we will pass a hat around for you if you can beef up our security so US cannot access it anymore!!!!!

-----

Meanwhile, Gattarov has renewed his call for Snowden to assist a working group investigating US intelligence agencies' access to the personal information of Russian users, launched by the senator in light of his revelations.

In an interview on Tuesday with the National News Service, Gattarov said Snowden would help the working group to find "gaps in the storage of Russians' personal information" by western internet companies.

He argued that providing such information wouldn't harm the US and therefore wouldn't violate the condition for the whistleblower's stay, as set by President Vladimir Putin. "Snowden will help protect the constitutional rights of Russian citizens," Gattarov said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/russian-senator-edward-snowden-personal-data

Edited August 9, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

Disturbing!

-----

The alleged email provider of National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden has suddenly shut down, leaving just an ominous message in its absence. I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision, writes Lavabit owner Ladar Levison on the companys front page. I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.

http://m.techcrunch.com/2013/08/08/snowdens-alleged-email-provider-shuts-down-warns-against-trusting-u-s-companies/

[mania]

Disturbing!

Yes very disturbing

The note, which we’ve pasted in full below, alludes to Levison being silenced under a gag order, forced to choose between being “complicit against the American people” or continuing to operate Lavabit.

But this is the new America

If you do not agree with everything we do or say or rule then you too are a terrorist suspect.

It is what happens when the citizens of America themselves become complacent in not watching what their elected

government is doing in their names.

[Publicus]

If anyone's doing overkill it's Snowden.

Snowden went beyond domestic programs to external national security programs and operations. Whatever point Snowden may have had by his actions - if indeed he ever had a point to them - are lost in his theft of thousands of documents related to the global security of the United States.

A certain number of U.S. citizens are grateful to him for his actions regarding domestic surveillance programs.

They're not so sure however he's benefitting the United States by climbing into bed with Vladimir Putin and Putin's pal Julian Assange where the three of them can have an orgy of sorts reading the global security means, methods, techniques of the U.S. foreign intelligence services.

Snowden has shown no limits to his actions.

Honestly: how many of the Snowden documents do you think would have been published if he had pulled his stunt within the US with a major US newspaper other major media?

And what would have been the odds of the media withholding the story for "national security" reasons and Snowden put into a secret jail after being judged by a secret court?

Snowden needed to take his beef to the Congress - that's been pointed out repeatedly.

But that was not spectacular enough for Snowden.

He had to make a global spectacle of himself. Snowden chose to betray is country.

Now Snowden is trapped in Russia and neither Snowden nor Putin are happy about it.

[Publicus]

Disturbing!

Yes very disturbing

The note, which we’ve pasted in full below, alludes to Levison being silenced under a gag order, forced to choose between being “complicit against the American people” or continuing to operate Lavabit.

But this is the new America

If you do not agree with everything we do or say or rule then you too are a terrorist suspect.

It is what happens when the citizens of America themselves become complacent in not watching what their elected

government is doing in their names.

Charges have been filed by the Justice Department in a U.S. District Court itemizing alleged violations of the Espionage Act and other violations of national security laws by Edward Snowden.

Snowden admits to stealing U.S. global national security documents and disseminating them, says he has a whole lot more and will release them too.

The United States Government has the Constitutional right and obligation to pursue Edward Snowden, to apprehend him and to try him in a court of law. This terrifies Snowden, who failed to think through his betrayal of the United States.

Necessarily, other parties are being dragged into this too by Snowden's rash and brash actions against his own country.

I insist my government perform its Constitutional duty to protect me against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That's what is occurring, which is encouraging to me.

Snowden is trapped in Russia, where he can't stay forever. At some point in time Snowden deservedly will be cuffed and taken away.

[mania]

I insist my government perform its Constitutional duty to protect me against all enemies,

That is some twisted logic if in the process they are trampling your Constitutional rights.

Also you are confusing/mixing various oaths & calling it Constitutional duty

Yet the Oath of Allegiance from which you chop a piece off to create yours & leave out the most important

"that I will support and defend the Constitution"

So please do not insist that "Our" government trample the 4th amendment of that Constitution

under the guise of protection for some weak people.

We are not weak at all. Nor do we ask that our Constitution be sidestepped by those that seek to gain ever more power

over us.

[manarak]

Charges have been filed by the Justice Department in a U.S. District Court itemizing alleged violations of the Espionage Act and other violations of national security laws by Edward Snowden.

Snowden admits to stealing U.S. global national security documents and disseminating them, says he has a whole lot more and will release them too.

The United States Government has the Constitutional right and obligation to pursue Edward Snowden, to apprehend him and to try him in a court of law. This terrifies Snowden, who failed to think through his betrayal of the United States.

Necessarily, other parties are being dragged into this too by Snowden's rash and brash actions against his own country.

I insist my government perform its Constitutional duty to protect me against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That's what is occurring, which is encouraging to me.

Snowden is trapped in Russia, where he can't stay forever. At some point in time Snowden deservedly will be cuffed and taken away.

The constitution has been drawn precisely to define how far the government could go in restricting individual freedom and civil rights in its duty of protecting the country.

The constitution needs to be changed if the people of america really want to authorize warrantless mass-eavesdropping and archiving of their private communications.

Unless this is done, all the mass spying is in breach of the constitution.

Lavabit shutting down must have been caused by something much more serious than the government requesting just Snowden's correspondence.

Here is the full message from Ladar Levison:

I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit. After significant soul searching, I have decided to suspend operations. I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision. I cannot. I feel you deserve to know whats going onthe first amendment is supposed to guarantee me the freedom to speak out in situations like this. Unfortunately, Congress has passed laws that say otherwise. As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests.

Whats going to happen now? Weve already started preparing the paperwork needed to continue to fight for the Constitution in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. A favorable decision would allow me resurrect Lavabit as an American company.

This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.

Sincerely,

Ladar Levison

Owner and Operator, Lavabit LLC

Somewhere I read news that american cloud computing and storage providers are worried about very negative business repercussions of the spying affairs - hahaha, fools. FOOLS

On the other hand, this is an excellent opportunity for providers based in neutral countries with strong privacy laws to expand their service - who has a list?

Singapore, Switzerland... are there more? maybe Canada?