Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[wealth]

"deep pocket inception"

While the Government arguably has "deep pockets", I beleve the term you are looking for is "deep packet inspection"

oops sorry you're right.

[theoldgit]

Completely off topic attachment removed.

[manarak]

Your first sentence refers to something I'd learned in Grade 5 of elementary school, as we prefer to call it in the U.S., so that immediately sets a certain tone and attitude to your exposition that detracts from the rest of it. The rest of it was written in a vacuum as it was. So let me put some meat on the bones, as it were.

yuck, this paragraph makes me want to vomit!

If information not relevant for national security gained through intelligence programs ever leaves the intelligence circles to prosecute citizens, then the state feared in your very signature will be achieved:

"Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions."

Wm. O. Douglas, US Supreme Court Justice (1898-1980)

The late Justice Douglas didn't predicate his world view and legal philosophy on paranoia.

Paranoia is the enemy of free thought and free speech. Look at Sen Joe McCarthy who endlessly abused both, not to mention freedom of association.

As to Edward Snowdon, the guy is a loose cannon who will be charged with violating the Espionage Act. The CIA views Snowdon as a "potential Chinese defector." The Director of National Intelligence says the damage to national security done by Snowdon is great. Bradley Manning is in the same deep shi, er, water.

Their time, place, circumstances are radically different from those Daniel Ellsberg grappled with more than 40 years ago.

.

It's not paranoia.

My private communications are being read illegally, this is now confirmed.

A US Law does not make it legal for the US to read communication data located in other countries (i.e. Google datacenters for example). So the people doing this are government-sanctioned criminals.

And notice how I do not defend Snowdon.

I don't like traitors.

But his revelations will help people around the world to see a bit behind the google, apple & co. smoke and mirrors.

I say it again: no cloud services or online office for me, my data stays home.

If a phone or software cannot work without an online connection, then I won't buy it.

This surveillance is total poison for diversity, freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

Maybe the data will not get used against US citizens, but I'll bet my hat that it gets used against people whom the US want to manipulate, and it gets probably traded with other countries in exchange for other information.

Edited June 12, 2013 by manarak

[Scott]

A number of posts which violate fair use policy have been deleted as well as replies.

Please exercise care in the amount you are posting--generally three sentences and then a link. Please also be clear about what is being quoted. Some posts appear to be quotes but there is no link.

This is the rule:

22) Not to post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles).

[lomatopo]

Consequently, I'm much more concerned about private corporate America than the government and its constitutionally sworn agents who are professional and are patriots without being extremists.

Excluding Mr. Snowden, presumably?

According to a 2010 Washington Post article, 854,000 Americans had top-secret clearances; almost one-third of them worked for private companies, rather than for the U.S. government.

Which means the extremists on the far right need to moderate their intemperate thinking and statements to more reflect the vast center-middle of the U.S. political spectrum. The body politic is giving much less attention to these developments and much less intensity than you are. I think that's because the vast center-middle of the U.S. knows it has a president it can trust in national security matters. Additionally, we do trust the federal agents in our national security apparatus to honor and execute their constitutionally sworn duty to defend, preserve and protect the constitution, the nation, our own people.

I find it interesting that conservatives up in arms over the IRS’s targeting of conservative groups fail to see how the NSA could similarly be co-opted for political gain? Oh well, maybe they’ll figure it out once Faux News tells them to.

Edited June 12, 2013 by lomatopo

[manarak]

Google, Microsoft and Facebook's PR teams are jumping wildly all over the place to try to figure out how to salvage the situation and get back the trust of their customers, LOL.

Something along the lines of "We lied to you over the past 5 or more years and passed your confidential information on to big brother, but now everything will change, because errr... well... we will still pass your info, but... err... it's all for the good cause !!!!!"

555

[manarak]

I find it interesting that conservatives up in arms over the IRS’s targeting of conservative groups fail to see how the NSA could similarly be co-opted for political gain? Oh well, maybe they’ll figure it out once Faux News tells them to.

The NSA/CIA already are in the political game, it's just that the targets are officially foreign, not US.

[manarak]

The funny thing about this is that China's earlier ban of Facebook and other US services now appears totally justified and even wise, because by doing so they avoided giving the US material to manipulate Chinese VIPs.

[simple1]

Google, Microsoft and Facebook's PR teams are jumping wildly all over the place to try to figure out how to salvage the situation and get back the trust of their customers, LOL.

Something along the lines of "We lied to you over the past 5 or more years and passed your confidential information on to big brother, but now everything will change, because errr... well... we will still pass your info, but... err... it's all for the good cause !!!!!"

555

The corporates would have no option, but to deny as they would be subject to prosecution by the US government if they admitted such practices exisited. Wasn't their a recent case where an executive from a services provider to the general public was jailed for non compliance or such an admission?

Edited June 12, 2013 by simple1

[Scott]

I have always been amazed at how willingly people have turned over information on the internet. The wealth of information that is available is absolutely astonishing and much of it is supplied by people who consider themselves to be rather private people. On Facebook, you can almost trace a family tree.

I don't have a lot to hide, but am still astounded at how the dots between my on-line persona have been connected to my real identity.

The only saving grace in this, is the shear volume of information available would be overwhelming.

[manarak]

Google, Microsoft and Facebook's PR teams are jumping wildly all over the place to try to figure out how to salvage the situation and get back the trust of their customers, LOL.

Something along the lines of "We lied to you over the past 5 or more years and passed your confidential information on to big brother, but now everything will change, because errr... well... we will still pass your info, but... err... it's all for the good cause !!!!!"

555

The corporates would have no option, but to deny as they would be subject to prosecution by the US government if they admitted such practices exisited. Wasn't their a recent case where an executive from a services provider to the general public was jailed for non compliance or such an admission?

Saying "Your data's confidentiality is safe with us" was a lie.

They didn't have to admit anything, but they could just have avoided pretending to uphold privacy and confidentiality.

[chuckd]

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA.

<snipped>

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. Nancy Pelosi best describes how Congress works.

In her own words...."But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To

[Exsexyman]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

First of all, many of the most successful people in all walks of life do not have a university degree, Richard Branson to name but one. You appear to suggest that because Snowdon doesn't have one somehow that means he has no credibility. Are you a snob? Do you really believe that this gross invasion of private citizen's privacy in many friendly countries by the US administration is all about trapping terrorists? Do you really believe that potential terrorists talk about their future plans on social media and their mobile phones? Of course they don't, this scandal has nothing to do with terrorism, that is just a red herring which appears to have been very effective in your case. There is nothing wrong with being a patriot, love of one's country, nothing at all. But not blind patriotism, my country right or wrong, in your case the Obama administration right or wrong. You appear to be willing to accept everything anybody in the current admininistration or their security services tell you as gospel truth, without question. History should show you that this is a very naive position to take. To quote the late, much lamented Frank Zappa. "There's a fine line between kneeling down and bending over".

[Credo]

Many members of Congress do not seem to think that in passing the respective laws that they authorized such an extraordinarily broad scope of communications interception. The general understanding was that the NSA would focus on intercepting and analyzing communications suspected of being tied to threats to the USA.

<snipped>

So congress doesn't seem to know what laws they passed or how they are working?

Sorry for the delay in answering your question. Nancy Pelosi best describes how Congress works.

In her own words...."But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To

Oh, I think your getting mixed, this thread isn't about Health Care. This one is about a bill that was passed quite a while ago and they still don't seem to know what's in it.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. This thread is about the NSA contractor.

Please stay on the topic.

[Scott]

A post violating fair use has been deleted. A nonsense post has also been deleted.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Scott

[chuckd]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

First of all, many of the most successful people in all walks of life do not have a university degree, Richard Branson to name but one. You appear to suggest that because Snowdon doesn't have one somehow that means he has no credibility. Are you a snob? Do you really believe that this gross invasion of private citizen's privacy in many friendly countries by the US administration is all about trapping terrorists? Do you really believe that potential terrorists talk about their future plans on social media and their mobile phones? Of course they don't, this scandal has nothing to do with terrorism, that is just a red herring which appears to have been very effective in your case. There is nothing wrong with being a patriot, love of one's country, nothing at all. But not blind patriotism, my country right or wrong, in your case the Obama administration right or wrong. You appear to be willing to accept everything anybody in the current admininistration or their security services tell you as gospel truth, without question. History should show you that this is a very naive position to take. To quote the late, much lamented Frank Zappa. "There's a fine line between kneeling down and bending over".

Why stop with naming just one, Richard Branson?

Three more that do not have college degrees are Microsoft's Bill Gates, Apple's Steve Jobs and Dell Computers Michael Dell.

http://smallbusiness.aol.com/2011/02/09/we-dont-need-no-education-meet-the-millionaire-dropouts/

[lomatopo]

Op-Ed piece about the NSA Contractor.

This man is a traitor

Edward Snowden exposed legal, vital tools that help protect innocent Americans

BY BILL NELSON / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

TUESDAY, JUNE 11, 2013, 6:14 PM

Edward Snowden is not a whistleblower. What Edward Snowden did amounts to an act of treason. And the Department of Justice should bring charges against him for deliberately taking classified information and leaking it in such a way that our enemies can use it against us.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/man-traitor-article-1.1369682

Edited June 12, 2013 by lomatopo

[lomatopo]

Hope Mr. Snowden, aka the NSA Contractor, is enjoying his "Cuban getaway".

Secret program leaker Snowden missing since Monday

The Associated Press

Published Wednesday, June 12, 2013, at 12:07 a.m.

HONG KONG — The whereabouts of a former CIA employee who leaked top-secret documents about U.S. surveillance programs remain unknown two days after he checked out of a Hong Kong hotel.

Edward Snowden arrived in Hong Kong on May 20. His identity as the source of the secret information was revealed on Sunday at his own request.

He was last seen Monday afternoon, when he left his chic Hong Kong hotel.

http://www.kansas.com/2013/06/12/2844134/secret-program-leaker-snowden.html

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/06/12/2844134/secret-program-leaker-snowden.html#storylink=cpy

Edited June 12, 2013 by lomatopo

[lomatopo]

Booz Allen fires Edward Snowden, says they didn't pay him $200K

By PHILIP EWING | 6/11/13 9:50 AM EDT Updated: 6/11/13 5:40 PM EDT

Consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton has fired Edward Snowden, the computer technician who acknowledged leaking classified documents to The Guardian and The Washington Post, the company announced.

Booz Allen on Tuesday morning also called into question one detail Snowden gave about himself when it updated a statement it released Sunday evening with a single sentence: “Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013, for violations of the firm’s code of ethics and firm policy,” the company said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/booz-allen-edward-snowden-nsa-leak-92568.html

Booz Allen delivering Mr. Snowden's "termination" notice:

[lomatopo]

Advice for Snowden from a man who knows: 'Always check six'

By Andrea Shalal-Esa

WASHINGTON | Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:59pm EDT

(Reuters) - Thomas Drake is one of the few people who understands from personal experience what the future may hold for Edward Snowden, the 29-year-old former NSA contractor who exposed the U.S. government's top secret phone and Internet surveillance programs.

His advice for Snowden: "Be lawyered up to the max and find a place where it's going to be that much more difficult for the United States to make arrangements for his return," Drake said. "And always check six, as we said when I used to be a flyer in the Air Force. Always make sure you know what's behind you."

Drake, a 56-year-old former intelligence official at the National Security Agency, was prosecuted under the Espionage Act in 2010 for allegedly revealing classified information about the agency's sweeping warrantless wire-tapping program. The government later dropped all but a misdemeanor charge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-usa-security-nsa-drake-idUSBRE95A12X20130611

[Steely Dan]

Apologies if I missed this being posted in the preceding pages. Sales of the novel 1984 soar on the NSA news. This is only one Orwellian meme that applies to the current administration, the routine misuse of language being another, such as labelling the Tea Party terrorists and real terrorists as 'rebels', the inability to use words such as jihad. Then there is the mainstream media acting as attack dogs against any perceived opponent of the government, the IRS being another tool of state sponsored thuggery. You can find convoluted explainations and rationalizations for these things in isolation, but when viewed as a whole there is a clear pathology at work and the constitution, which is one of the last remaining bullwarks blocking the White house control freaks is being attacked from both front and rear due to loopholes intended to circumvent constitutional amendments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-11/orwell-s-1984-soars-on-amazon-after-nsa-surveillance-reports.html

Sales of George Orwell’s novel “1984,” featuring a futuristic totalitarian state, jumped onAmazon.com Inc. (AMZN)’s website following reports of a classified program that lets the U.S. government collect personal data.

[wealth]

I have always been amazed at how willingly people have turned over information on the internet. The wealth of information that is available is absolutely astonishing and much of it is supplied by people who consider themselves to be rather private people. On Facebook, you can almost trace a family tree.

I don't have a lot to hide, but am still astounded at how the dots between my on-line persona have been connected to my real identity.

The only saving grace in this, is the shear volume of information available would be overwhelming.

I think many have the same attitude and it's a kind of an emphatic reaction to our world we live in. Nothing wrong with that.

But I think it's important to keep diversity and freedom at the utmost highest level and goal in our live.

We know the stories when things went terribly wrong when these kind of agencies start profiling each and everyone, and there are many. Profiling is the keyword and this is what it is about. Nothing to do with security or terrorist hunting. Your and everyone's data will be stored forever or at least a 100 years(current capacity).

It's not to blame these agencies, but the legislators. On top of it Obama.

The world should be tired of his lies.

On Monday he said no Americans are tapped only foreigners. He got debunked. Now he says only time and numbers are stored in an interview yesterday.

Seriously, what is he up to?

Who are his handlers? There is where the problem is.

All the others like Facebook, Google and a few others need to upgrade to strict privacy. If someone wants to cancel the account it must be erased from the servers as well, not a big deal. I run a script like this myself. Lets say a 3-6 month period for total erasing the data will be sufficient and the services can't be abused if someone has sinister plans. Facebook on purpose stores your data eternal, even when you cancel the account.

Verizon bypassed and made an optic fiber cable to the feds. Fortunately they got busted. Who to trust?

Governments are changing constantly. Where are the guaranties for protection? It doesn't exist when we don't have independent controlling measures in place.

As conclusion I'd say, it went to far.

Obama will get a not so friendly welcome when he travels to Germany. Tough questions will be waiting for him and under no secret veil. His pride is hurt. Now lets see if he's a man and takes the consequences of his deeds.

[wealth]

Advice for Snowden from a man who knows: 'Always check six'

By Andrea Shalal-Esa

WASHINGTON | Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:59pm EDT

(Reuters) - Thomas Drake is one of the few people who understands from personal experience what the future may hold for Edward Snowden, the 29-year-old former NSA contractor who exposed the U.S. government's top secret phone and Internet surveillance programs.

His advice for Snowden: "Be lawyered up to the max and find a place where it's going to be that much more difficult for the United States to make arrangements for his return," Drake said. "And always check six, as we said when I used to be a flyer in the Air Force. Always make sure you know what's behind you."

Drake, a 56-year-old former intelligence official at the National Security Agency, was prosecuted under the Espionage Act in 2010 for allegedly revealing classified information about the agency's sweeping warrantless wire-tapping program. The government later dropped all but a misdemeanor charge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-usa-security-nsa-drake-idUSBRE95A12X20130611

other mainstream media are discussing ways of where and how Edward could go and hide. Never seen this before. It's a German link, so I not post it here. I think he will be free after the storm has settled and the head of State, his corporations and handlers are brought to justice.

[Exsexyman]

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

First of all, many of the most successful people in all walks of life do not have a university degree, Richard Branson to name but one. You appear to suggest that because Snowdon doesn't have one somehow that means he has no credibility. Are you a snob? Do you really believe that this gross invasion of private citizen's privacy in many friendly countries by the US administration is all about trapping terrorists? Do you really believe that potential terrorists talk about their future plans on social media and their mobile phones? Of course they don't, this scandal has nothing to do with terrorism, that is just a red herring which appears to have been very effective in your case. There is nothing wrong with being a patriot, love of one's country, nothing at all. But not blind patriotism, my country right or wrong, in your case the Obama administration right or wrong. You appear to be willing to accept everything anybody in the current admininistration or their security services tell you as gospel truth, without question. History should show you that this is a very naive position to take. To quote the late, much lamented Frank Zappa. "There's a fine line between kneeling down and bending over".

Why stop with naming just one, Richard Branson?

Three more that do not have college degrees are Microsoft's Bill Gates, Apple's Steve Jobs and Dell Computers Michael Dell.

http://smallbusiness.aol.com/2011/02/09/we-dont-need-no-education-meet-the-millionaire-dropouts/

Thanks for that, i never realised these guys were not graduates, you learn something every day. Just goes to show that you don't necessarily need a top education to be clever and successful. My old Dad was one of the wisest men i knew, and he left school at fourteen.

[Publicus]

The funny thing about this is that China's earlier ban of Facebook and other US services now appears totally justified and even wise, because by doing so they avoided giving the US material to manipulate Chinese VIPs.

The CCP-PRC in 2010 expelled Google from the Mainland because Google strongly refused to comply with the CCP's demands that Google recognize and practice the identical absolute censorship of the internet that the CCP has and enforces. The CCP has 30,000 full time censors controlling its internet sites, 24-7. Facebook is "Prohibited" in the PRChina because, as the CCP rightfully knows and says, were FB allowed there, the U.S. population on its own would create social and political "disharmony" in the PRChina.

Your post concerns me because it seems to imply strongly that CCP censorship and punishment "appears totally justified and even wise." Censorship by an authoritarian one party state is obscene and a violation of basic human rights. The Snowden case is radically different from the CCP's policies of mind and thought control, and of prohibiting free expression of political views by those in the PRChina who have somehow managed not to be completely indoctrinated from birth.

Majority Views NSA Phone Tracking as Acceptable Anti-terror Tactic

Pew Poll: Public Says Investigate Terrorism, Even If It Intrudes on Privacy

http://www.people-press.org/2013/06/10/majority-views-nsa-phone-tracking-as-acceptable-anti-terror-tactic/

Decisive majorities of Americans are sufficiently attentive to terrorism to the point that 56% support the current NSA program of phone tracking and 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy.

This means the wild guess numbers posted above need to be significantly revised. It in fact means the numbers above need to be, for all practical purposes, reversed - or almost so.

The Pew Center findings, published Monday, also mean a good number of posters at TVF need to reassess their thinking of what we the American people want, prefer, consider on balance, find acceptable, and believe. Once again a substantial number of posters are inconsistent with the great American middle, i.e., the majority point of view of Americans in general. It's just long past time for some people who post here to get real. They need to become recovering radical extremists.

Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are very closely following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records. This is a relatively modest level of public interest, to state it mildly. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following it not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely.

The public's Interest in reports about the government tracking of e-mail and online activities is almost identical: 26% say they are following this story very closely, 33% not closely at all.

The NSA program is just not the end of Western civilization that a number of posters here might like to suggest, nor is it the end of the U.S. constitution or of freedom or liberty in the United States. The NSA program is viewed by the large center-middle of the United States - the body politic - as another necessary and tightly controlled program and policy that is designed and implemented to protect us against the many foreign terrorists who burn with the passion to destroy us.

Edward Snowdon, where ever you may be in your underground cover, you just threw your life away. You talk a good game but haven't any university degree. I think you just earned one in BS.

First of all, many of the most successful people in all walks of life do not have a university degree, Richard Branson to name but one. You appear to suggest that because Snowdon doesn't have one somehow that means he has no credibility. Are you a snob? Do you really believe that this gross invasion of private citizen's privacy in many friendly countries by the US administration is all about trapping terrorists? Do you really believe that potential terrorists talk about their future plans on social media and their mobile phones? Of course they don't, this scandal has nothing to do with terrorism, that is just a red herring which appears to have been very effective in your case. There is nothing wrong with being a patriot, love of one's country, nothing at all. But not blind patriotism, my country right or wrong, in your case the Obama administration right or wrong. You appear to be willing to accept everything anybody in the current admininistration or their security services tell you as gospel truth, without question. History should show you that this is a very naive position to take. To quote the late, much lamented Frank Zappa. "There's a fine line between kneeling down and bending over".

My objection to Snowden is that he's a BS-er of the first order who has cynically bamboozled a number of educated people into believing he has a just and legitimate cause. Showden has been called a narcissist by qualified people (albeit from afar). Snowden escaped to the PRChina, to the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the PRC. Hong Kong is continuously crawling with CCP spies and clandestine agents of the PRC state.

It was from there that Snowden identified himself as the source of the purloined documents and disseminated confidential information, i.e., while he was under the protection of the CCP in the PRC. This occurred simultaneously with the Obama-Xi summit in California. There are too many "coincidences" in all of this besides.

As has been pointed out by the CIA, which suspects Snowden to be a "potential Chinese defector," Snowden didn't go to Sweden, or to Switzerland, or even to France, which for more than a hundred years has prided itself in granting political asylum to virtually anyone. Snowden instead went to the PRC and for all we know or don't know of his present whereabouts, could well still be there with the support and protection of the particular foreign government.

[johna]

It has been known for a very long time that American bases in the UK are listening in on European business leaders and passing this info back to American corporations. Germany business leaders complained about this

back in the 1990's

Care to substantiate your allegations?

The Canadians and Australians have listening posts too. I suppose they are part of a vast conspiracy.

Germany engages in similar activities.

So please do share your information.

read a newspaper

Since you have read the newspaper, it might be wise to post a link to substantiate you claim.

I'm not your PA, do the search yourself

[Publicus]

Advice for Snowden from a man who knows: 'Always check six'

By Andrea Shalal-Esa

WASHINGTON | Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:59pm EDT

(Reuters) - Thomas Drake is one of the few people who understands from personal experience what the future may hold for Edward Snowden, the 29-year-old former NSA contractor who exposed the U.S. government's top secret phone and Internet surveillance programs.

His advice for Snowden: "Be lawyered up to the max and find a place where it's going to be that much more difficult for the United States to make arrangements for his return," Drake said. "And always check six, as we said when I used to be a flyer in the Air Force. Always make sure you know what's behind you."

Drake, a 56-year-old former intelligence official at the National Security Agency, was prosecuted under the Espionage Act in 2010 for allegedly revealing classified information about the agency's sweeping warrantless wire-tapping program. The government later dropped all but a misdemeanor charge.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-usa-security-nsa-drake-idUSBRE95A12X20130611

other mainstream media are discussing ways of where and how Edward could go and hide. Never seen this before. It's a German link, so I not post it here. I think he will be free after the storm has settled and the head of State, his corporations and handlers are brought to justice.

No, not so concerning Snowden.

Drake violated the law and his oath. However, in doing so, he exposed an illegal program of the Bush administration. The government did not prosecute Drake's serious violation of law because the lawbreaking government's case wouldn't ever have been viable in a court of law. The Bush administration had no standing, i.e., legal basis, to take Drake to court for his serious breach of security because the Bush administration had been engaged in an even more serious breach of the laws, the rule of law, the constitution. So Drake was slapped with a simple misdemeanor charge, which per se ended his career in national security.

Snowden's case is radically different. He's violated laws enacted by the Congress, carried out by the executive branch and validated by the special national security court. That's all three branches of the U.S. Government in agreement on these particular espionage and foreign surveillance laws. Snowden hasn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting off the hook on this one. The government has firm legal ground to prosecute Snowden to the maximum extent of the laws, which likely means life in a federal prison.

The two cases are radically different. The fact is as obvious as the nose on my face.

[impulse]

Publicus, all well and good. But how much longer would the Vietnam tragedy have gone on and how many more tens of thousands would have died if Daniel Ellsberg hadn't "broken the law", becoming a traitor to the powers that be?

[Scott]

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