Nsa Contractor Identifies Himself As Source

[wealth]

I made a post several days ago quoting Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) as claiming Obama's campaign had set up a data base that "no one has ever seen before in life...". She went on to say "that data base will have information on everything on individuals that has never been done before."

It would seem the NSA information has already been used for somewhat suspicious motives by this administration in the last election, and future elections.

Where else could they get information on everything on everyone?

Google...Maxine Waters confirms "Big Brother" database 2013.

They play God and the revelation " ... and books will be opened and you will be judged according to your deeds" now "files will be opened for the same and through the anti-Christ"

I have seen quite a view rigged elections where they used names and data of deceased and filtered it into the elections. Now with this huge DB it is even more than likely that it will reach new dimensions.

[manarak]

Snowden’s CIA Drunk Driving Claim Questioned

By Lee Ferran

Jun 12, 2013 11:12am

The Swiss government has formally asked the U.S. for “clarification” on a claim from alleged NSA leaker Edward Snowden that CIA agents in Geneva pushed a banker to drink and drive as part of a dangerous recruitment ploy.

In an attempt to learn secret financial information, Snowden alleged that undercover CIA agents would get the banker drunk and “encourage” him to drive home in his car. When the banker was eventually arrested for drunk driving, the CIA operatives offered to help him out of the jam, paving the way for recruitment as a source.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/06/switzerland-questions-u-s-over-cia-drunk-driving-gambit/

that's rather harmless...

I'd bet the NSA/CIA are remote-controlling loads of paedophile "assets" which they located through PRISM.

In the "old times" intelligence services would drug the victim and put an underage boy or girl in his bed and send a couple of police officers on CIA payroll to wrap up the case.

Some more ruthless countries applied the same method, except the underage person was dead...

Edited June 14, 2013 by manarak

[lomatopo]

NSA Leaks Suggest Microsoft May Have Misled Public Over Skype Eavesdropping

By Ryan Gallagher

June 13, 2013, at 10:34 AM

Revelations about the Internet spying system PRISM have put the international spotlight on the extent of the U.S. government’s secret surveillance. But the disclosures also raise important questions about the role the world’s largest Internet companies played in hoodwinking the public over the controversial spying.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/13/nsa_surveillance_leaks_suggest_microsoft_may_have_misled_public_on_skype.html

---------------------

The NSA's "recruitment" of Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple et al., directly mirrors the "recruitment" of RCA Global, ITT World Communications and Western Union International in 1947 - these companies initially resisted, cited privacy concerns and asked for protection from lawsuits, and compartmentalized their relationship with the NSA to just one or two mid-level managers, providing senior management plausible deniability.

At some point the NSA "recruited" AT&T, MCI, And Sprint, all of which allowed the NSA to tap into their networks universally without warrants of any kind. These telecomms providers successfully lobbied for, and were granted, retroactive immunity against any future lawsuits for violating their customer's privacy.

The pattern has continued, as is evident from the PRISM slides. I assume these internet related companies are actively lobbying for similar retroactive immunity?

Edited June 14, 2013 by lomatopo

[lomatopo]

Now that wasn't so hard was it?

NSA chief: We owe the American people stats on surveillance programs

The director of the National Security Agency and members of Congress on Thursday pledged to release more information in the coming week about thwarted terrorist attacks to prove the value of the agency's sweeping surveillance tactics.

Army Gen. Keith Alexander, the NSA director and head of U.S. Cyber Command, said public officials "owe the American people... some statistics."

Once people get that information, he said, they can "take a step back, look at what's going on, the oversight and compliance," and consider the value of the programs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57589228/nsa-chief-we-owe-the-american-people-stats-on-surveillance-programs/

[manarak]

NSA Leaks Suggest Microsoft May Have Misled Public Over Skype Eavesdropping

By Ryan Gallagher

June 13, 2013, at 10:34 AM

Revelations about the Internet spying system PRISM have put the international spotlight on the extent of the U.S. government’s secret surveillance. But the disclosures also raise important questions about the role the world’s largest Internet companies played in hoodwinking the public over the controversial spying.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/13/nsa_surveillance_leaks_suggest_microsoft_may_have_misled_public_on_skype.html

The NSA's "recruitment" of Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Apple et al., directly mirrors the "recruitment" of RCA Global, ITT World Communications and Western Union International in 1947 - these companies initially resisted, cited privacy concerns and asked for protection from lawsuits, and compartmentalized their relationship with the NSA to just one or two mid-level managers, providing senior management plausible deniability.

At some point the NSA "recruited" AT&T, MCI, And Sprint, all of which allowed the NSA to tap into their networks universally without warrants of any kind. These telecomms providers successfully lobbied for, and were granted, retroactive immunity against any future lawsuits for violating their customer's privacy.

The pattern has continued, as is evident from the PRISM slides. I assume these internet related companies are actively lobbying for similar retroactive immunity?

of course!

and I think that's quite legitimate - why should the companies be responsible for the government's actions?

[lomatopo]

that's rather harmless...

I think anyone remotely familiar with international espionage, perhaps via a Le Carre novel, understands how a "honeypot" operation works.

Hopefully Swiss authorities are as nonchalant about the CIA's clandestine activities, as exposed by Mr. Snowden, in their country, and targeting one of their citizens, as you.

[manarak]

that's rather harmless...

I think anyone remotely familiar with international espionage, perhaps via a Le Carre novel, understands how a "honeypot" operation works.

Hopefully Swiss authorities are as nonchalant about the CIA's clandestine activities, as exposed by Mr. Snowden, in their country, and targeting one of their citizens, as you.

Such operations are just par for the course, they have always taken place and will always.

BTW, the Swiss are laughable, they are so busy with self-doubts that they won't defend their turf except publicly, for the show.

[lomatopo]

why should the companies be responsible for the government's actions?

Given that most of these company's internal legal departments have initially resisted recruitment efforts citing legality and privacy concerns, and have identified significant financial exposure, one can see that management of these companies is clearly concerned about being held responsible.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T on January 31, 2006, accusing the telecommunication company of violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the National Security Agency (NSA) in a massive, illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications. On July 20, 2006, a federal judge denied the government's and AT&T's motions to dismiss the case, chiefly on the ground of the States Secrets Privilege, allowing the lawsuit to go forward.

On August 15, 2007, the case was heard by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and was dismissed on December 29, 2011 based on a retroactive grant of immunity by Congress for telecommunications companies that cooperated with the government. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case.[6] A different case by the EFF was filed on September 18, 2008, titled Jewel v. NSA.

These telecomms companies spent a lot of money (maybe as much as $50 million) lobbying, and directly to candidates, to insure retroactive immunity. One assumes they judged this money a wise investment?

Edited June 14, 2013 by lomatopo

[VocalNeal]

The PATRIOT Act and the NDAA effectively nullify the US Constitution. US citizens have no rights any more. Until these laws are repealed, there will be no freedom in the US.

Someone more famous than me said

"Power ceded to government in times of fear are rarely removed from statute"

[Publicus]

I believe that Mr. Snowden was compromised and that he has been working for the Chinese government. It is awfully convenient, that Mr. Snowden has made the allegations just as the US and its allies were getting tough with Chinese cyber attacks and spying. It is a strange coincidence that Mr. Snowden sought refuge in a Chinese fiefdom where he is assured of Chinese security service protection and support.

I believe that the USA may have been blindsided or even bungled its investigation of Mr. Snowden and that the Chinese are now taking what could have been a spying fiasco and turned it into an opportunity.

This is not the first episode of its kind in recent years, and I direct your attention to the case of Jeffrey Delsisle the Canadian naval officer that was spying for the Russians between 2007-2011 and compromised the Stoneghost surveillance network that tied Australia, New Zealand, the UK and USA information gathering systems. Because of Delisle's treason, Canada has suffered irreparable harm. The Snowden episode is quite similar except, the evidence to show that Snowden was being paid by the Chinese has yet to surface. It will come. The Delisle case, was bungled and the man was allowed to spy for too long despite CSIS surveillance. Even the FBI which was involved was accused of taking too long to investigate. I expect that similar ineptitude will be demonstrated in the Snowden case. The man is no hero. Instead, I am calling him a disgusting traitor.

I still tend to believe the other side of the coin, that he is being discredited and linked to the PRC because of the fact that he was in HK, knee-jerk comments. The NSA only discovered his identity because of his admission to the fact (according to the information we have). If they thought there was a conspiracy in their organization, they would be doing an extremely deep in-house investigation instead of spouting off to the media.

Not really the actions of a spy, revealing secrets to the world instead of passing them to his masters..............

IMHO of course...............

The first two news stories reported yesterday blows your two point out of the water. The third article raises additional questions almost all of you refuse to face.

1) Snowden is in Hong Kong showing everything he has to the Chinese Communist Party. Either the CCP has something on Snowden or he is flat out sympathetic or supportive of the CCP-PRC. Why hasn't Snowden accepted the strong suggestions of Russia that he'd be a welcome political defector there? Why is he in the PRChina instead of in Iceland, or Sweden, or Cuba etc etc. Snowden is cock-sure he's a slick character, which will be his eventual downfall.

Why Edward Snowden is spilling U.S. secrets to China

http://news.yahoo.co...-070000923.html

Feds hunted for Snowden in days before NSA programs went public

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/12/us-usa-security-snowden-hunt-idUSBRE95B1A220130612

2) NSA security personnel were searching for Snowden before he announced his presence in the CCP-PRC, in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, SAR. After a few days the FBI joined the hunt, all before Snowden arrived in the HKSAR to book himself into a luxury hotel for what he appeared to think could be an indefinite period of time, during which he identified himself as the leaker and revealed that he had chosen the PRC as his means of escape, his destination. However, things got too hot for him so Snowden went underground in HKG.

The questions present themselves and new questions arise, such as where he is in HKG, who is protecting him while he spills U.S. secrets to the PRC's Public Security Bureau (the CCP Gestapo)? Who are his handlers? Who's feeding him? Who will pay for the expensive extradition lawyers (plural) Snowden will need over the coming months and perhaps a year or two?

There are too many obvious unanswered questions about Snowden and the PRC connection.

One central aspect is the fact that earlier this year the Hong Kong SAR High Court ordered the SAR government to completely revise its extradition processes and procedures. The compelled revisions haven't even begun. In the meantime, all extradition proceedings in the HKSAR have ceased, as per the order of the High Court. Extradition processing can resume only after the bureaucracy in the HKSAR government writes and develops new rules and regulations in respect to extradition. Many moons will pass before the process is completed and finalized.

So Snowden can remain in HKG for some appreciable period of time simply on the basis of the High Court's ruling.

I know that normally, a U.S. citizen can arrive in HKG without a Visa, be given a 90 day Visitor's Visa and take it from there. But 90 days is the max on the Visitor's Visa in the HKSAR. However, given the High Court's March ruling, Snowden likely will be permitted to remain for an as yet undefined period of time.

What a coincidence!!!

The U.S Government is considering revoking its passport issued to him and almost surely will once charges are filed of violating the Espionage Act of 1917, as amended, and other more recent national security laws, to include Snowden's oath of secrecy. We'll see what the Boyz in Beijing do then. They may continue to protect Snowden or they may throw him under a double decker. I know which I'm putting my money on.

Edward Snowden safe from extradition due to Hong Kong loophole

A "legal vacuum" in Hong Kong may let NSA leaker Edward Snowden remain for now, despite an existing extradition treaty.

http://news.msn.com/rumors/rumor-edward-snowden-safe-from-extradition-due-to-hong-kong-loophole

There are too many obvious factors here involving an NSA technical specialist fleeing to the PRC, spilling U.S. secrets, and having protections there against extradition. Do you need someone to draw you a picture???

Edited June 14, 2013 by Scott

[manarak]

Publicus, please do a quick analysis of Snowdon's situation when he had to plan his steps and try to think as he would have.

Supposing you had no ties with the PRC, what country would you pick to be safe from Uncle Sam's reach?

I say that HongKong is one of the few logical choices. In fact, I have difficulties finding a good alternative, except maybe Russia, but I would very much prefer HongKong.

Also, consider that Snowdown potentially had access to some information that helped him choose his destination.

Of course, a PRC connection is also possible.

But if there really is a PRC connection, so what? It doesn't change the reality of PRISM. Whether Snowdon is a PRC agent or paid by the PRC is a totally secondary issue that will not distract from the main point: the USA spying on everybody's lives.

Edited June 14, 2013 by manarak

[Publicus]

I made a post several days ago quoting Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) as claiming Obama's campaign had set up a data base that "no one has ever seen before in life...". She went on to say "that data base will have information on everything on individuals that has never been done before."

It would seem the NSA information has already been used for somewhat suspicious motives by this administration in the last election, and future elections.

Where else could they get information on everything on everyone?

Google...Maxine Waters confirms "Big Brother" database 2013.

They play God and the revelation " ... and books will be opened and you will be judged according to your deeds" now "files will be opened for the same and through the anti-Christ"

I have seen quite a view rigged elections where they used names and data of deceased and filtered it into the elections. Now with this huge DB it is even more than likely that it will reach new dimensions.

The "anti-Christ."

Now we have the "anti-Christ."

Some people went off the deep end a very long time ago, never mind presently on this issue.

They're fighting the "anti-Christ."

[Basil B]

'Edward Snowden 'banned from flying to UK'

The Associated Press news agency reported seeing a document at a Thai airport telling carriers to stop Edward Snowden, 29, boarding any flights.

The travel alert - reported to feature a Home Office letterhead - said Mr Snowden "is highly likely to be refused entry to the UK".

source = http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22902098

I am sure he will be welcome in Ecuador or at any of their embassy's (just needs to bring his own camp bed).

Edited June 14, 2013 by Basil B

[chuckd]

From today's Drudge Report...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Agencies Said to Swap Data With Thousands of Firms

By Michael Riley - Jun 14, 2013 9:44 AM GMT+0700

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency. The role of private companies has come under intense scrutiny since his disclosure this month that the NSA is collecting millions of U.S. residents’ telephone records and the computer communications of foreigners from Google Inc (GOOG). and other Internet companies under court order.

Read more here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html

[wealth]

From today's Drudge Report...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Agencies Said to Swap Data With Thousands of Firms

By Michael Riley - Jun 14, 2013 9:44 AM GMT+0700

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency. The role of private companies has come under intense scrutiny since his disclosure this month that the NSA is collecting millions of U.S. residents’ telephone records and the computer communications of foreigners from Google Inc (GOOG). and other Internet companies under court order.

Read more here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html

that gives free trade a new meaning.

... and this is still not all.

Goodness, such butt-lickers. Lets call it terrorism from within.

Wonder what will be with Mossad. So far only an outdated book from Ostrovsky (by way of deception), but nevertheless highly interesting.

I may upload it again if it is down on the public domain.

Edited June 14, 2013 by wealth

[Publicus]

Publicus, please do a quick analysis of Snowdon's situation when he had to plan his steps and try to think as he would have.

Supposing you had no ties with the PRC, what country would you pick to be safe from Uncle Sam's reach?

I say that HongKong is one of the few logical choices. In fact, I have difficulties finding a good alternative, except maybe Russia, but I would very much prefer HongKong.

Also, consider that Snowdown potentially had access to some information that helped him choose his destination.

Of course, a PRC connection is also possible.

But if there really is a PRC connection, so what? It doesn't change the reality of PRISM. Whether Snowdon is a PRC agent or paid by the PRC is a totally secondary issue that will not distract from the main point: the USA spying on everybody's lives.

Yes, I would go to Hong Kong.

I would go to Hong Kong bearing gifts of U.S. classified intelligence for the Chinese Communist Party if I were a traitor.

Going to HKG "bearing gifts" is material to the questions being brought forth because, if a traitor is involved, the likelihood would be great that much of what we are hearing about the NSA is overblown and not really directed at the NSA.

Someone in a previous post has already mentioned the "anti-Christ" as having the chief role in all of this. It's no stretch of imagination to ID who exactly the "anti-Christ" would be among the extreme right, the tea party gang especially.

[manarak]

Publicus, please do a quick analysis of Snowdon's situation when he had to plan his steps and try to think as he would have.

Supposing you had no ties with the PRC, what country would you pick to be safe from Uncle Sam's reach?

I say that HongKong is one of the few logical choices. In fact, I have difficulties finding a good alternative, except maybe Russia, but I would very much prefer HongKong.

Also, consider that Snowdown potentially had access to some information that helped him choose his destination.

Of course, a PRC connection is also possible.

But if there really is a PRC connection, so what? It doesn't change the reality of PRISM. Whether Snowdon is a PRC agent or paid by the PRC is a totally secondary issue that will not distract from the main point: the USA spying on everybody's lives.

Yes, I would go to Hong Kong.

I would go to Hong Kong bearing gifts of U.S. classified intelligence for the Chinese Communist Party if I were a traitor.

Going to HKG "bearing gifts" is material to the questions being brought forth because, if a traitor is involved, the likelihood would be great that much of what we are hearing about the NSA is overblown and not really directed at the NSA.

Someone in a previous post has already mentioned the "anti-Christ" as having the chief role in all of this. It's no stretch of imagination to ID who exactly the "anti-Christ" would be among the extreme right, the tea party gang especially.

He said a lot of bullshit in his interview with the Guardian.

I think he will disappear at some point... and maybe come live in Thailand

Edited June 14, 2013 by manarak

[Publicus]

Pre-9/11 NSA Memo Pushed to Rethink 4th Amendment

By Philip Ewing, Politico

09 June 13

The National Security Agency pushed for the government to "rethink" the Fourth Amendment when it argued in a classified memo that it needed new authorities and capabilities for the information age.

The 2001 memo, later declassified and posted online by George Washington University's National Security Archive, makes a case to the incoming George W. Bush administration that the NSA needs new authorities and technology to adapt to the Internet era.

In one key paragraph, NSA wrote that its new phase meant the U.S. must reevaluate its approach toward signals intelligence, or "SIGINT," and the Constitution's Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizure.

"The Fourth Amendment is as applicable to eSIGINT as it is to the SIGINT of yesterday and today," it wrote. "The Information Age will however cause us to rethink and reapply the procedures, policies and authorities born in an earlier electronic surveillance environment."

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/17848-pre-911-nsa-memo-pushed-to-rethink-4th-amendment

Here is the original NSA document. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB24/nsa25.pdf

So when did we change the Fourth Amendment, by consent of the governed?

When did we change the Fourth Amendment because some loopy snoops at NSA thought it to be a good idea?

We elect our Members of Congress and our president to ensure accountability to both us and of the bureaucrats to our elected leaders.

We have the courts to protect the Constitution and a vigilant press/mass media to discover a memo such as you have produced.

Consequently, nothing has happened to the Fourth Amendment per se despite the zealousness of some cabal of government snoops at NSA

[Steely Dan]

From today's Drudge Report...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Agencies Said to Swap Data With Thousands of Firms

By Michael Riley - Jun 14, 2013 9:44 AM GMT+0700

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency. The role of private companies has come under intense scrutiny since his disclosure this month that the NSA is collecting millions of U.S. residents’ telephone records and the computer communications of foreigners from Google Inc (GOOG). and other Internet companies under court order.

Read more here: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html

Regarding the role of private companies, you only have to take a look at the directorships held by currently serving politicians to see how easily this came about.

[FDog]

Publicus, please do a quick analysis of Snowdon's situation when he had to plan his steps and try to think as he would have.

Supposing you had no ties with the PRC, what country would you pick to be safe from Uncle Sam's reach?

I say that HongKong is one of the few logical choices. In fact, I have difficulties finding a good alternative, except maybe Russia, but I would very much prefer HongKong.

Also, consider that Snowdown potentially had access to some information that helped him choose his destination.

Of course, a PRC connection is also possible.

But if there really is a PRC connection, so what? It doesn't change the reality of PRISM. Whether Snowdon is a PRC agent or paid by the PRC is a totally secondary issue that will not distract from the main point: the USA spying on everybody's lives.

Yes, I would go to Hong Kong.

I would go to Hong Kong bearing gifts of U.S. classified intelligence for the Chinese Communist Party if I were a traitor.

Going to HKG "bearing gifts" is material to the questions being brought forth because, if a traitor is involved, the likelihood would be great that much of what we are hearing about the NSA is overblown and not really directed at the NSA.

Someone in a previous post has already mentioned the "anti-Christ" as having the chief role in all of this. It's no stretch of imagination to ID who exactly the "anti-Christ" would be among the extreme right, the tea party gang especially.

Ohhh puulease. Again stop with the crap about Snowden, What he is doing or not doing is not the issue. It is what the US govt is doing that is the issue.

I detest the Republican party, I am pro Democratic party but for the life of me I cannot understand how this can be considered a political issue.

I'm sure no matter who was in govt would be doing the same thing. It is just an issue of a US govt gone crazy and holding so much information that ANYONE who even hints that the govt is doing bad things will have their entire history investigated and the next headline will be that in grade 5 Snowden showed his willy to another boy so therefore he is the devil incarnate and you cannot believe a word he says.

So come on US govt, put the publics mind at ease, give a guarantee that if there is no terrorism involved in any communications from a person anywhere in the world that the information you gather cannot and will not be given to anyone else and cannot be used for other purposes.

God forbid if their site is ever hacked.

[Publicus]

Now that this topic has not found the presence of the "anti-Christ," despite a frantic campaign, it looks like it might be time to try to resurrect the IRS thing, if that's possible. That one certainly collapsed quickly after Cong Darrell Issa, the burning bush, er, the torched factory guy, finally started flailing away by making a lot of noise without any proof whatsoever. It's now become obvious the IRS matter is exactly that, the IRS matter.

Let's see what this NSA thing looks like a month from now too. It's already beginning increasingly to fade. Looks like one side has pretty much shot its wad. It's become clear that when they go overborad trying to convince us Obama is the devil incarnate, and we still don't buy it, there's nothing else much for the tea party to say about their America - and they mean not us.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Publicus

[Ulysses G.]

“We all know dogmatists who are more concerned about holding their opinions than about investigating their truth. ... if they are mistaken, they will never discover it; they have condemned themselves to perpetual error. Human beings sometimes use their beliefs for wish-fulfillment. Too often we believe what we want to be true.”

― David L. Wolfe

[wealth]

Now that this topic has not found the presence of the "anti-Christ," despite a frantic campaign, it looks like it might be time to try to resurrect the IRS thing, if that's possible. That one certainly collapsed quickly after Cong Darrell Issa, the burning bush, er, the torched factory guy, finally started flailing away by making a lot of noise without any proof whatsoever. It's now become obvious the IRS matter is exactly that, the IRS matter.

Let's see what this NSA thing looks like a month from now too. It's already beginning increasingly to fade. Looks like one side has pretty much shot its wad. It's become clear that when they go overborad trying to convince us Obama is the devil incarnate, and we still don't buy it, there's nothing else much for the tea party to say about their America - and they mean not us.

You admit that it is all wrong.

Now why do Google and Microsoft ask the German Government for help? It's headline there.

You only have to look at the puppeteers selecting their puppets and the legislators/legislation before anyone could blame the agencies. There are only a few on both sides that will pqass the test.

Good luck if you're really looking for the truth that will set you free.

Secret shadow governments, secret laws, secrecy everywhere, private federal banks (12) and so forth. Oh my ...

Edited June 15, 2013 by wealth

[JDGRUEN]

“We all know dogmatists who are more concerned about holding their opinions than about investigating their truth. ... if they are mistaken, they will never discover it; they have condemned themselves to perpetual error. Human beings sometimes use their beliefs for wish-fulfillment. Too often we believe what we want to be true.”

― David L. Wolfe

Yes UG ... in the same vein as your post - some obama zealots are satisfied to believe that if a controversy fades a bit for a while - then the egregious wrong doing of the obama Administration was correct and justified - out of sight out of mind regardless of lawless deeds committed .... But contrary to the wishful thinking of obama zealots ... evidence mounts - the populist becomes aware - then even former defenders shout for accountability and reform... those who are brainwashed obama leftist robots just keep on cheerleading and wishful thinking ...

[geriatrickid]

Now that this topic has not found the presence of the "anti-Christ," despite a frantic campaign, it looks like it might be time to try to resurrect the IRS thing, if that's possible. That one certainly collapsed quickly after Cong Darrell Issa, the burning bush, er, the torched factory guy, finally started flailing away by making a lot of noise without any proof whatsoever. It's now become obvious the IRS matter is exactly that, the IRS matter.

Let's see what this NSA thing looks like a month from now too. It's already beginning increasingly to fade. Looks like one side has pretty much shot its wad. It's become clear that when they go overborad trying to convince us Obama is the devil incarnate, and we still don't buy it, there's nothing else much for the tea party to say about their America - and they mean not us.

You admit that it is all wrong.

Now why do Google and Microsoft ask the German Government for help? It's headline there.

You only have to look at the puppeteers selecting their puppets and the legislators/legislation before anyone could blame the agencies. There are only a few on both sides that will pqass the test.

Good luck if you're really looking for the truth that will set you free.

Secret shadow governments, secret laws, secrecy everywhere, private federal banks (12) and so forth. Oh my ...

Google will do what is in Google's best interests. Google is in a heap of trouble in the EU over its alleged large scale tax evasion. You bet it is going to make all sorts of offers of cooperation with the EU authorities if it keeps Google from being fined again or having its executives prosecuted. Google’s Paris office was raided in 2011 during a French investigation that eventually led to a request by the government that the company pay 1.7 billion euros in back taxes.

When people are caught doing bad things and want to avoid the consequences they often do whatever it takes.

[wealth]

Now that this topic has not found the presence of the "anti-Christ," despite a frantic campaign, it looks like it might be time to try to resurrect the IRS thing, if that's possible. That one certainly collapsed quickly after Cong Darrell Issa, the burning bush, er, the torched factory guy, finally started flailing away by making a lot of noise without any proof whatsoever. It's now become obvious the IRS matter is exactly that, the IRS matter.

Let's see what this NSA thing looks like a month from now too. It's already beginning increasingly to fade. Looks like one side has pretty much shot its wad. It's become clear that when they go overborad trying to convince us Obama is the devil incarnate, and we still don't buy it, there's nothing else much for the tea party to say about their America - and they mean not us.

You admit that it is all wrong.

Now why do Google and Microsoft ask the German Government for help? It's headline there.

You only have to look at the puppeteers selecting their puppets and the legislators/legislation before anyone could blame the agencies. There are only a few on both sides that will pqass the test.

Good luck if you're really looking for the truth that will set you free.

Secret shadow governments, secret laws, secrecy everywhere, private federal banks (12) and so forth. Oh my ...

Google will do what is in Google's best interests. Google is in a heap of trouble in the EU over its alleged large scale tax evasion. You bet it is going to make all sorts of offers of cooperation with the EU authorities if it keeps Google from being fined again or having its executives prosecuted. Google’s Paris office was raided in 2011 during a French investigation that eventually led to a request by the government that the company pay 1.7 billion euros in back taxes.

When people are caught doing bad things and want to avoid the consequences they often do whatever it takes.

so is Microsoft with a combined approx $3 billion of fines already done.

[saroq]

I don't suppose that anyone cares that the program was "legal"? Congress authorized the activity and it was subject to legal review. It is all well and nice that some technical clerk has such lofty views, but who was he to break his contract and to betray the trust of the US general public. I don't need some high school dropout to interpret the law on my behalf.

Oh sure, some will bleat on, but the man's a hero etc. Really? There were other options by which he could voice his concerns. He could have contacted any number of Senators such as Rand Paul or Al Franken, depending upon his political affiliation, and they would have taken it from there. There are a number of Representatives who would have acted on the information.

He deserves the heap of trouble he is now in. He can join Bradley Manning on traitor's row and rot.

Do you care that he made sure that nothing he leaked would compromise any operative / agent or operation. He alerted people to the fact that they are being tapped, recorded without any warrant to do so. Legal or not raising this issue so that the people could decide whether or not it should be legal was the right thing to do. Hope the boys and girls at the CIA / NSA enjoy reading my post :-)

[Ulysses G.]

As time goes by, his motives do not seem so pure. Advising China that the USA is hacking their websites has nothing to do with personal privacy and is posssibly treasonous.

[simple1]

It seems bizarre that you have many in the security agencies and US government calling for life imprisonment of Snowden, but to date the US has not issued an international warrant for Snowden's arrest. Putting aside the rights and wrongs, can anyone provide a reasonable explanation why

Edited June 15, 2013 by simple1

[Ulysses G.]

Perhaps they are sure that the Chinese government will not honor it?