Thailand's English Skills Lowest In S E A

[Scott]

Unfortunately, it takes more than just a native speaker to proof read the text. I have proof read text and then the corrections made are worse than the original mistake.

They need to read, corrected, then read and corrected again.

[Salapoo]

Perhaps if they made it very, very easy for native English speakers to work here as conversational teachers, only requirement is say be a native speaker, police cert. from your home country and a basic TEFL cert. Nothing else needed. Perhaps a special TEFL type cert. that strictly focused on teaching conversation in Thai government classrooms be available to any native speaker here wishing to take part.

Then with a contract from a school they get a special 12 month visa extension free of charge, no reporting, no anything, WP (or exemption from), and the school calls immigration every 90 days to confirm they're still there teaching.

The aim to give every class in every government school one conversational lesson a day with a native speaker, right from P1-M6.

I would bet that the result in 12 years time would be unbelievable.

This would of course require Thailand to be helpful and proactive in lightening restrictions for Westerners living here, and sort of admitting that it needs and values them.

Oh well, perhaps they can get some Cambodian waitresses and waiters to teach the Thai teachers English instead.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Salapoo

[Scott]

Thailand is a hierarchical society. The idea of someone without a degree teaching students would put that person lower on the hierarchy. Between tradition, hierarchy and being practical, practicality loses.

[Issangeorge]

I have a degree and have taught English at government schools for 6 years. I do not think having a degree is necessary to teach English and has nothing to do with being a good teacher. I do think that being a native born English speaker with an understandable accent and good grammar (ain't is not acceptable) is important. There are many people that speak very good English as a second language, but they miss many of the nuances of the language and many are not great at grammar and their vocabulary is lacking. If given a choice between a native speaker non degree holder and a non native speaker degree holder, I would choose the non-degree holder every time. As far as young people teaching English they are better than nothing, but I think the Thai Government would be better off employing retired native speakers who are committed to the community. They had a program last summer doing this, but sadly it only lasted four months and they stopped it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 28, 2013 by Scott

[Noistar]

I have a degree and have taught English at government schools for 6 years. I do not think having a degree is necessary to teach English and has nothing to do with being a good teacher. I do think that being a native born English speaker with an understandable accent and good grammar (ain't is not acceptable) is important. There are many people that speak very good English as a second language, but they miss many of the nuinces of the language and many are not great at grammar and their vocabulary is lacking. If given a choice between a native speaker non degree holder and a non native speaker degree holder, I would choose the degree holder everytime. As far as young people teaching English they are better than nothing, but I think the Thai Government would be better off employing retired native speakers who are committed to the community. They had a program last summer doing this, but sadly it only lasted four months and they stopped it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I was following your post until I got to the point where you said 'I would choose the degree holder every time'. Up until that point I understood your post to be indicating that competence rather than qualification was your preference. The remainder of your post also supported that view.

IMHO

[Salapoo]

Thailand is a hierarchical society. The idea of someone without a degree teaching students would put that person lower on the hierarchy. Between tradition, hierarchy and being practical, practicality loses.

Actually a Thai teacher doesn't need a degree to teach Prathom level. They need to complete the first two years of a B.Ed, giving them the Cert. of Higher Education (Term could be incorrect).

This allows them to teach all prathom levels. To teach Matayom level they need to finish the degree, or obviously have another degree and do a PG teaching cert.

As of 2 years ago anyway.

In relation to my own post above, Thailand would never, ever be so proactive at a cost of their own face for helping foreigners live here and making it easier for them, while admitting that they have value.

[Scott]

I believe to teach, you need to have a Teacher's License (or provisional license), which requires a degree for both foreigners and Thais.

But, this is a discussion for a different thread and probably doesn't have a lot to do with the overall English level in the country.

[Salapoo]

I believe to teach, you need to have a Teacher's License (or provisional license), which requires a degree for both foreigners and Thais.

But, this is a discussion for a different thread and probably doesn't have a lot to do with the overall English level in the country.

True, just to sign off on it I was incorrect. A degree was only needed for higher matayom (M4, 5 and 6). P1-M3 didn't require a degree for Thai teachers, just the 2 yr Cert. of Higher Education.

Source (last modified on 6 June 2013)

If the rules have changed in the last year or two I don't know, but haven't heard of any Thai teachers getting sacked due to new rulings.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Salapoo

[Issangeorge]

I have a degree and have taught English at government schools for 6 years. I do not think having a degree is necessary to teach English and has nothing to do with being a good teacher. I do think that being a native born English speaker with an understandable accent and good grammar (ain't is not acceptable) is important. There are many people that speak very good English as a second language, but they miss many of the nuinces of the language and many are not great at grammar and their vocabulary is lacking. If given a choice between a native speaker non degree holder and a non native speaker degree holder, I would choose the degree holder everytime. As far as young people teaching English they are better than nothing, but I think the Thai Government would be better off employing retired native speakers who are committed to the community. They had a program last summer doing this, but sadly it only lasted four months and they stopped it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I was following your post until I got to the point where you said 'I would choose the degree holder every time'. Up until that point I understood your post to be indicating that competence rather than qualification was your preference. The remainder of your post also supported that view.

IMHO

I am very sorry I meant to say I would chose the non degree native speaker everytime. Boy that one slip changed my whole post. You're right competence over qualification everytime.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

I have a degree and have taught English at government schools for 6 years. I do not think having a degree is necessary to teach English and has nothing to do with being a good teacher. I do think that being a native born English speaker with an understandable accent and good grammar (ain't is not acceptable) is important. There are many people that speak very good English as a second language, but they miss many of the nuinces of the language and many are not great at grammar and their vocabulary is lacking. If given a choice between a native speaker non degree holder and a non native speaker degree holder, I would choose the degree holder everytime. As far as young people teaching English they are better than nothing, but I think the Thai Government would be better off employing retired native speakers who are committed to the community. They had a program last summer doing this, but sadly it only lasted four months and they stopped it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I was following your post until I got to the point where you said 'I would choose the degree holder every time'. Up until that point I understood your post to be indicating that competence rather than qualification was your preference. The remainder of your post also supported that view.

IMHO

I am very sorry I meant to say I would chose the non degree native speaker everytime. Boy that one slip changed my whole post. You're right competence over qualification everytime.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I have gone back and edited the original post, Issangeorge. I read it and found it quite confusing as well. I was going to send you a PM, but unfortunately, I got busy and never got around to it.

[pastafarian]

I have a degree and have taught English at government schools for 6 years. I do not think having a degree is necessary to teach English and has nothing to do with being a good teacher. I do think that being a native born English speaker with an understandable accent and good grammar (ain't is not acceptable) is important. There are many people that speak very good English as a second language, but they miss many of the nuinces of the language and many are not great at grammar and their vocabulary is lacking. If given a choice between a native speaker non degree holder and a non native speaker degree holder, I would choose the degree holder everytime. As far as young people teaching English they are better than nothing, but I think the Thai Government would be better off employing retired native speakers who are committed to the community. They had a program last summer doing this, but sadly it only lasted four months and they stopped it.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I was following your post until I got to the point where you said 'I would choose the degree holder every time'. Up until that point I understood your post to be indicating that competence rather than qualification was your preference. The remainder of your post also supported that view.

IMHO

I am very sorry I meant to say I would chose the non degree native speaker everytime. Boy that one slip changed my whole post. You're right competence over qualification everytime.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Agree 100%. I recently visited a government school where many of my ex-students now study. They are between 12-14 yrs old and, as well as three native English speakers, they are also taught by a Mexican, Filipino, Russian and Chilean! They complained they couldn't understand a word the Mexican guy said and very little the other non-native English speakers said, I got to meet them myself later that day and I could see why, very strong accents with many grammatical mistakes.

This thread is about Thailand having the lowest English skills in SEA and it won't change as long as they continue to hire non-native speakers over native speakers, simple as that! The Filipino teacher was boasting how he'd recently done the TOEIC test to a Thai colleague and he used these exact words 'Me got 700 points, me so happy I pass'. Of course he could have been speaking like that due to his Thai colleague's English ability but that is no excuse!

[wilcopops]

Noistar - (are you Welsh?)

Remember we aren’t talking about learning Thai we are talking about the converse, As for the examples I made - they're not idiosyncrasies - they are the normal ways we speak English and they are as you point out different from the way Thais use their vocal abilities and use of vowel sounds consonants intonation and stress to speak. In Thai, the consonants are not actually the same as in English. Both Cambodia and Vietnam have less of a problem here. For instance, in Cambodia they pronounce "r' more easily and other concepts of stress and intonation seem less of a problem, in Vietnam they use the same alphabet as in English.

THe problem I was alluding to is that people make judgments on things like GREETINGS which in English are so varied I know Americans visiting UK and even Australians have difficulty in understanding, so when you greet a Thai firstly be aware of what you are saying and secondly don't be so smug as to assume that your pronunciation is any good.

People confuse "accent" with pronunciation - (NB Glasgow or Geordie) - it is actually not the case that accents mean poor pronunciation, on the contrary everyone has an accent (except Edinburgh!) and what is important is the clarity of speech - I'm sorry to say that most of the expats I meet in Thailand have terrible speech - slurred, cut and full of slang, colloquialisms and idioms. There are the sort of thing that even native English speakers have problems with and are NOT a good way to assess whether or not the person you are speaking to has good language skills or not.....you after all just mentioning one listening incident based on the assumption that your speech is OK as a sample out of 65 million.

This is not to say that there isn’t a problem with the standard of English in Thailand but i don’t think that crude personal examples are in any way helpful or representative - amusing maybe, but that’s just about all.

I think the concern should be for the future and where the problems exist. I would suggest that at present it is senior management and the over 50s that have the biggest problem - unfortunately these are the people in power and through a combination of ignorance and fear of losing face there is a tendency to brush aside criticisms of English or even discussion on the need for English.

I’d suggest that those in power have not fully grasped the nettle or don’t see the need to do so. However the up and coming graduates do see this and many are taking extra curricular lessons (hence the plethora of language schools) - what the government needs to do is make it easier for foreigners to set up schools in Thailand and employ teachers - this will improve the teaching on offer and give a wider choice to customers....and in turn improve English throughout the population.land, so I suppose it's quite close

Nope, not Welsh! Pompey born but brought up in Bath, England so quite close I suppose.

now THERE"S an accebt for foreigners to grapple with! Thais say "footboN" instaed of football and "CentaN" instead of central - but how about "areal" in stead of "area"? - or is that "Briston"?

[wilcopops]

I"m not sure that making it easier to work as a teacher is the same as lowering the standards. Many teachers are put off by the bureaucracy (who wants to be tested for syphilis every year?). I think that quality teachers look at the environment they will be teaching in and find that very often Thailand is offering a second rate deal so they get may miss out on some of the best teachers.

My MAIN concern though is that good English language schools cannot set up in thailand very easily....the most obvious problem is that you need to hire 4 Thais for every one foreigner and need so much in the bank. Well if you are selling a product that involves NATIVE English teachers it would stand to reason that your foreign employees are going to far outnumber your native Thai employees - so the best private language schools are being excluded.

[wilcopops]

Thailand is a hierarchical society. The idea of someone without a degree teaching students would put that person lower on the hierarchy. Between tradition, hierarchy and being practical, practicality loses.

Actually a Thai teacher doesn't need a degree to teach Prathom level. They need to complete the first two years of a B.Ed, giving them the Cert. of Higher Education (Term could be incorrect).

This allows them to teach all prathom levels. To teach Matayom level they need to finish the degree, or obviously have another degree and do a PG teaching cert.

As of 2 years ago anyway.

In relation to my own post above, Thailand would never, ever be so proactive at a cost of their own face for helping foreigners live here and making it easier for them, while admitting that they have value.

"As of 2 years ago anyway." - this sort of thing really sums up the mess that teaching is in Thailand - one could have ENDLESS discussions about the regulations involved and for every person involved there will be a different spin on the situation.​

Edited July 29, 2013 by wilcopops

[aTomsLife]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

[wilcopops]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

Years ago Thailand offered free schooling to children (under 12 wasn't it?) - but since then they have sat on their laurels. The quality of teaching in schools is poor in general and of course as you say the class sizes are ridiculous.......

they have tried to put native English teachers in schools, but if the environment isn't there then it can't make a huge difference.

however I think that schools are only part of the problem - most countries use private companied to teach adults English after they leave school or to give extra tuition to school children and this system in Thailand is simply not good enough - so Thai students are losing out at school and AFTER school too (not to mention university.

As for native speakers - i think their importance can be over estimated - if the country had a higher standard of teacher and text book, the need would be less. The reason for Native speakers in most instances is that it is intended for students to be taught on TEFL principles.

An aspect of the problem in Thai schools is the quality of the non-native speakers as teachers and the abysmal text books which are just littered with howlers e.g "go TO shopping" whoever put that in a school textbook should be taken out and shot. (that's a figure of speech probably hyperbole -- not understood very well on this site)

How many of us farang had NATIVE language teachers ? I never had a native French teacher yet my standard is (or was) high enough to conduct business in France - I'd have loved to have had a native Latin speaker!

[Salapoo]

Thailand is a hierarchical society. The idea of someone without a degree teaching students would put that person lower on the hierarchy. Between tradition, hierarchy and being practical, practicality loses.

Actually a Thai teacher doesn't need a degree to teach Prathom level. They need to complete the first two years of a B.Ed, giving them the Cert. of Higher Education (Term could be incorrect).

This allows them to teach all prathom levels. To teach Matayom level they need to finish the degree, or obviously have another degree and do a PG teaching cert.

As of 2 years ago anyway.

In relation to my own post above, Thailand would never, ever be so proactive at a cost of their own face for helping foreigners live here and making it easier for them, while admitting that they have value.

"As of 2 years ago anyway." - this sort of thing really sums up the mess that teaching is in Thailand - one could have ENDLESS discussions about the regulations involved and for every person involved there will be a different spin on the situation.​

To put that in perspective, I believe there have 4 (possibly 5) different Ministers of Education in that 2 year timespan.

[boomerangutang]

If Thailand wants to improve English-speaking abilities of its youngsters, there are several basic things it needs to improve.

>>> smaller class sizes

>>> encourage, rather than discourage native-English speakers.

>>> find ways to gauge the teaching ability of an applicant without a BA degree. If they can't figure how to do that, they can contact me for ideas. In essence, do away with the draconian requirement of degrees to teach.

>>> Find ways to discern who is a native English speaker with an understandable accent (and teaching skills) vs someone without those attributes. If Thai administrators can't figure out how to do that, then they should be in a different department.

In sum, Thai administrators should contact the types of people who are voicing proposals on this forum. In reality, Thai bosses are too proud to do so. They believe that, because they are Thai, they can find a Thai-only way to fix the problem.

Just for fun, let's turn it around. What if farang were teaching Thai language overseas. Add to that, some of the farang teachers had very thick accents, and/or tenuous handles on speaking/writing Thai. How would Thai educators perceive that?

[aTomsLife]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

Years ago Thailand offered free schooling to children (under 12 wasn't it?) - but since then they have sat on their laurels. The quality of teaching in schools is poor in general and of course as you say the class sizes are ridiculous.......

they have tried to put native English teachers in schools, but if the environment isn't there then it can't make a huge difference.

however I think that schools are only part of the problem - most countries use private companied to teach adults English after they leave school or to give extra tuition to school children and this system in Thailand is simply not good enough - so Thai students are losing out at school and AFTER school too (not to mention university.

As for native speakers - i think their importance can be over estimated - if the country had a higher standard of teacher and text book, the need would be less. The reason for Native speakers in most instances is that it is intended for students to be taught on TEFL principles.

An aspect of the problem in Thai schools is the quality of the non-native speakers as teachers and the abysmal text books which are just littered with howlers e.g "go TO shopping" whoever put that in a school textbook should be taken out and shot. (that's a figure of speech probably hyperbole -- not understood very well on this site)

How many of us farang had NATIVE language teachers ? I never had a native French teacher yet my standard is (or was) high enough to conduct business in France - I'd have loved to have had a native Latin speaker!

Growing up, I had native Spanish teachers some years, meaning teachers from Spain. I agree, the importance of a native speaker can be overvalued. However, if s/he also happens to be a talented educator and fluent in their students' first language, then that person is probably hard to beat, for reasons to do with intercultural exchange. That said, not too many westerners have even a working knowledge of Thai, unfortunately.

Another idea would be a national initiative pairing Thai and native English teachers together, assuming both parties were inclined to get along and put the students' needs first. In the process, the Thai teacher's grasp of English would improve, while the native speaker would benefit from a more controlled teaching environment.

I agree 100% with your comment concerning a native speaker's ability, or rather lack thereof, to open a private language school. While I don't think this poses too much of a problem in cities where expats tend to congregate, the red-tape inhibiting westerners from opening schools certainly impacts students in the outer provinces. It stands to reason many entrepreneurial minded westerners would jump at the chance to open schools throughout the country if there wasn't so much baggage involved. The most glaring issue being the number of Thai staff who must be hired per western employee; it's near, if not outright impossible to ever make a profit under such conditions. Simply an instance of Thai protectionism doing nothing more than protecting the country's elites from a more educated population.

[HoudiniXLogic]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

[wilcopops]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

[wilcopops]

Really appreciate some of the insights in this thread. I'd like to steer the discussion to class size for a moment, if I may. Because despite any future progress on the bureaucratic front allowing Thailand to both attract and retain talented, experienced English teachers, ultimately how can one ever hope to conduct a conversation class with fifty students in the room?

In a class of forty or fifty, even if the teacher is talented enough to get everyone on task, the volume would be deafening: it'd be near impossible to make any meaningful corrections. I can't be certain of a magic number, but imagine anything less than twenty would be great. Perhaps twenty is an impossibility given the sheer number of students attending many government schools. But even in such cases, schools should be separating out the most gifted students, putting them into small groups, and giving them daily classes.

I often see small groups of students given daily dance lessons, so it stands to reason the same could be done for those showing a proclivity for the English language.

Years ago Thailand offered free schooling to children (under 12 wasn't it?) - but since then they have sat on their laurels. The quality of teaching in schools is poor in general and of course as you say the class sizes are ridiculous.......

they have tried to put native English teachers in schools, but if the environment isn't there then it can't make a huge difference.

however I think that schools are only part of the problem - most countries use private companied to teach adults English after they leave school or to give extra tuition to school children and this system in Thailand is simply not good enough - so Thai students are losing out at school and AFTER school too (not to mention university.

As for native speakers - i think their importance can be over estimated - if the country had a higher standard of teacher and text book, the need would be less. The reason for Native speakers in most instances is that it is intended for students to be taught on TEFL principles.

An aspect of the problem in Thai schools is the quality of the non-native speakers as teachers and the abysmal text books which are just littered with howlers e.g "go TO shopping" whoever put that in a school textbook should be taken out and shot. (that's a figure of speech probably hyperbole -- not understood very well on this site)

How many of us farang had NATIVE language teachers ? I never had a native French teacher yet my standard is (or was) high enough to conduct business in France - I'd have loved to have had a native Latin speaker!

Growing up, I had native Spanish teachers some years, meaning teachers from Spain. I agree, the importance of a native speaker can be overvalued. However, if s/he also happens to be a talented educator and fluent in their students' first language, then that person is probably hard to beat, for reasons to do with intercultural exchange. That said, not too many westerners have even a working knowledge of Thai, unfortunately.

Another idea would be a national initiative pairing Thai and native English teachers together, assuming both parties were inclined to get along and put the students' needs first. In the process, the Thai teacher's grasp of English would improve, while the native speaker would benefit from a more controlled teaching environment.

I agree 100% with your comment concerning a native speaker's ability, or rather lack thereof, to open a private language school. While I don't think this poses too much of a problem in cities where expats tend to congregate, the red-tape inhibiting westerners from opening schools certainly impacts students in the outer provinces. It stands to reason many entrepreneurial minded westerners would jump at the chance to open schools throughout the country if there wasn't so much baggage involved. The most glaring issue being the number of Thai staff who must be hired per western employee; it's near, if not outright impossible to ever make a profit under such conditions. Simply an instance of Thai protectionism doing nothing more than protecting the country's elites from a more educated population.

The main principle of TEFL is that the teacher doesn't use the language of the students - and in some classes there may be several languages. Although in the long run it can help if the teacher can speak the language of his students if they all share a language. A non- native speaker would not be successful at TEFL and would need to use a different approach - this doesn't mean that this would be less successful.

"While I don't think this poses too much of a problem in cities where expats tend to congregate," - it doesn't matter how many foreigners are available it is not possible (legal) to employ teachers without employing 4 Thai nationals to each foreigner and a large amount of money in the bank. - so how do you get over that hurdle? IMO this is just ridiculuos - it is fairly obvious that a language school is going to need to employ a lot of foreigners and only a very few Thai people and they would be largely admin.

THe other problem is that work permits are essentially company and location (building) specific - so if a teacher goes out of the building to teach at a factory, say, he would in fact be breaking the terms of his work permit.

Extensions can be got - but of course they take time and many factory-based courses are only one or two months a ta time - so this would involve going to the department of klabour repeatedly for different permits - imagine the confusion arising out of this.

they managed to exempt most teachers from the peculiar nation-based minimum wage scheme and deprived them of most of their workers rights, so why not change te work permit status for private language school employees?

Edited July 29, 2013 by wilcopops

[Issangeorge]

Class size is the first problem. 50 students crammed into a room designed for under 40 is not conducive for learning. I've seen MEP classes of over 30 students. These are classes where the parent is paying up to ฿50,000 a year for special classes for learning English and they still have about 10 students too many.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[HoudiniXLogic]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

Actually the picture that popped into my head when I was typing my first post was a young kid on the BTS with his mother, when the computerised voice announced the next station in English, the kid closed his ears and kept saying that he hates the English language. Well it sounds like some issues right there.

[HoudiniXLogic]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

Actually the picture that popped into my head when I was typing my first post was a young kid on the BTS with his mother, when the computerised voice announced the next station in English, the kid closed his ears and kept saying that he hates the English language. Well it sounds like some issues right there.

[HoudiniXLogic]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

Actually the picture that popped into my head when I was typing my first post was a young kid on the BTS with his mother, when the computerised voice announced the next station in English, the kid closed his ears and kept saying that he hates the English language. Well it sounds like some issues right there.

[wilcopops]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

Actually the picture that popped into my head when I was typing my first post was a young kid on the BTS with his mother, when the computerised voice announced the next station in English, the kid closed his ears and kept saying that he hates the English language. Well it sounds like some issues right there.

Sounds like he has issues with his teacher more than the language - how well do you know kids?

[wilcopops]

Class size is the first problem. 50 students crammed into a room designed for under 40 is not conducive for learning. I've seen MEP classes of over 30 students. These are classes where the parent is paying up to ฿50,000 a year for special classes for learning English and they still have about 10 students too many.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It may be part of the problem...but....the problem with that is that class sizes aren't really that different in other countries in the region....so what's different in Thailand? What's not working as well as our neighbours?

[aTomsLife]

Class size is the first problem. 50 students crammed into a room designed for under 40 is not conducive for learning. I've seen MEP classes of over 30 students. These are classes where the parent is paying up to ฿50,000 a year for special classes for learning English and they still have about 10 students too many.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It may be part of the problem...but....the problem with that is that class sizes aren't really that different in other countries in the region....so what's different in Thailand? What's not working as well as our neighbours?

I've never taught elsewhere in SEA, so I can but presume the no-fail policy here as a lot to do with it. Also, Thai students are reluctant to try because if they make a mistake they lose face; and if they don't make a mistake, their friends lose face. Add to that, xenophobia and a healthy dose of nationalism, and perhaps we've come close to arriving at our answer.

[Noistar]

How many times have you seen a Thai child say "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?". It's almost as though the parents ingrain this into their child's mind since young, so in their teen years they never pay attention to anything in English, and as adults they realise that they should've been learning English. I see that frustrated look on the faces of Thai students in ABAC when they are in class and forced to speak English.

As for the older generation thinking adopting English as the official second national language is going to make people think that Thailand was colonised, well I can say that the dinosaurs had their time for extinction and the world moved on fine, so can that kind of mindset should follow the same path.

" "I dont want to speak English, I'm Thai, so why do I have to speak English?" - Substitute any language and every teenage language student all over the world says that!

It certainly seems that part of the problem is motivation.

From my own personal situation I can certainly say that my step-daughter's focus on learning English, benefits from the fact that my wife can see benefit in speaking English.

My wife follows up problems I encounter with my step-daughter.

It's disappointing that I have little opportunity to learn/speak Thai. All communication which includes me is invariably conducted in English. But as they say, you have to use it to learn it, so I'm of some benefit.