Locals left out of moves to curb floods, as Thai govt starts water project talks

[webfact]

WATER MEGA-PROJECTS
Ditch dams, river networks tell PM
The Nation

Say locals left out of moves to curb floods, as govt starts project talks

BANGKOK: -- People's networks from river basins in the North, Northeast and South submitted an open letter yesterday calling for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her deputy Plodprasop Suraswadi to cancel the Bt350-billion flood management projects because they lacked public participation and contravene the Constitution.

Meanwhile, the committee to select winners of water mega-projects, chaired by PM's Office permanent secretary Thongthong Chantarangsu, began talks on bids and costs yesterday with Loxley Joint Venture and Summit SUT Joint Venture. A resident of Tambon Sa Eiab of Song district in Phrae, Sayan Khamneung, representing a network from the far North, said they disagreed with the state mega-projects, as they had not involved affected people from the beginning, despite the fact they would affect local people greatly.

Sayan slammed the government for acting contrary to people's interests, saying the Water and Flood Management Commission's procedure went against the Constitution and lacked studies on possible impacts, project analysis, strategic planning, a master plan and investment analysis to back them up.

He said the commission changed regulations to enable foreign companies with project concessions to be in charge of everything from impact assessments to design and construction, plus expropriating lands and finding space for evacuees - which could lead to conflicts. The group vowed to do everything to protect resources, human rights and communities if their demands are not met.

Meanwhile, the committee to select the water management mega-projects bid winners, chaired by Thongthong, yesterday started on three days of negotiations over construction costs.

They met Loxley Joint Venture, which won a technical round for the Bt4-billion A6/B4 Module, in the morning, then met Summit SUT Joint Venture, which won the technical round for the B2 Module worth Bt14 billion, in the afternoon.

They are due to meet with officials from ITD-Power China JV today (June 12) and K-Water tomorrow (June 13).

If negotiations with these firms fail to cut costs, the committee will call runners-up to price negotiations, to ensure the projects materialise in five years and are worthy of an outlay of taxpayers' money.

The list of bid winners should be known by late Thursday and submitted to Cabinet by Monday June 18, Thongthong said.

Meanwhile, PM's Office Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisal affirmed that project contracts would be drawn up separately according to each module, as people had suggested.

He said Thongthong would sign the contracts with private groups. If an agreement on the price could not be reached with groups with the highest bid scores - and the loan deadline on June 30 was missed - projects would be funded via normal annual budgets.

The Department of Water Resources and Thammasat University's Faculty of Law organised a public forum yesterday in Rayong's Muang district to gather opinions for the draft law on water resources. Senior DWR official Pattama Panpracha said the law would be submitted to Cabinet in September.

Rayong Governor Wichit Chatpaisit said the draft would be a master law for water issues, such as floods, droughts, water disputes and pollution, and unify problem-solving by state agencies.

He said it would also include public participation because some problem-solving projects lacked this when crises severely affected communities.


-- The Nation 2013-06-12

[bigbamboo]

Too late. The money has already been divvied up.

[MaxLee]

Too late. The money has already been divvied up.

And that open letter to Yingluck and Ploddi will just land in the rubbish bin...

Edited June 12, 2013 by MaxLee

[iancnx]

I am supportive of local groups being heard, but the report does not indicate how many have signed this open letter.... A handful is not enough, hundreds of thousands and the letter has some mileage. Is this reported in the Thai press? I would hate to see a repeat of the Chinese damming policy, especially if my local river consumes our home!

[tomross46]

The government knows what it is doing. There is no reason to talk to the public, because they would not understand, they elected the government to make the decisions for them.

[AleG]

Garbage doesn't have the right to opinion, they should shut up and bear what their betters deem best.

In case anyone wonders, yes, that was sarcasm.

Edited June 12, 2013 by AleG

[iancnx]

Mods?

[hellodolly]

I am supportive of local groups being heard, but the report does not indicate how many have signed this open letter.... A handful is not enough, hundreds of thousands and the letter has some mileage. Is this reported in the Thai press? I would hate to see a repeat of the Chinese damming policy, especially if my local river consumes our home!

Unfortunately you are right it did not show the number of names signing it.

Not that it should matter there should be environmental reports on the damage each project will do by out side interprize's with nothing to gain by shall we say bending reality.

[ratcatcher]

Mods?

Rockers?

[Thaddeus]

Mods?

Rockers?

Or more on topic ............... New Wave.

[smutcakes]

Hmm not sure why this topic is so quiet, let me see:

Flooding Check

Big Money projects Check

Probable large scale corruption by Government Check

Normally this would be 10 pages long already, so why oh why is it so quiet on here?

[Bellweather]

Garbage doesn't have the right to opinion, they should shut up and bear what their betters deem best.

In case anyone wonders, yes, that was sarcasm.

They also have the habit of bringing up what exactly is happening in these areas and the government doesn't want to know.

[rubl]

"If an agreement on the price could not be reached with groups with the highest bid scores - and the loan deadline on June 30 was missed - projects would be funded via normal annual budgets."

Better hurry then, the proposed national budget for 2013/2014 already has a 250 billion gap and surely doesn't include any of this flooding stuff.

BTW what happened with PM Yinglucks package of national strategies announced on the 22nd of January. The package including the "government emphasises growth on the quality-of-life and environmentally-friendly basis"?

[Robby nz]

Perhaps the headline should read:

Locals left to move out as Thai govt starts water project talks

But hang on these are people from the red heartland where PT gets their main support.

Are they really going to ignore them and risk losing votes?

[Bagwan]

Mods?

Rockers?

Or more on topic ............... New Wave.

Prefer Retro myself. When the grannies of today were the young darlings of yesteryear.

[iancnx]

Perhaps the headline should read:

Locals left to move out as Thai govt starts water project talks

But hang on these are people from the red heartland where PT gets their main support.

Are they really going to ignore them and risk losing votes?

That was my initial thought, all voters close to the main arterial rivers and associated flood plains ... You would think they were red in the majority. But the headline does include the South...... If this is evidence of disgruntled PT followers (?) Abhisit will watch with Glee.

[bangon04]

"If an agreement on the price could not be reached with groups with the highest bid scores - and the loan deadline on June 30 was missed - projects would be funded via normal annual budgets."

Better hurry then, the proposed national budget for 2013/2014 already has a 250 billion gap and surely doesn't include any of this flooding stuff.

BTW what happened with PM Yinglucks package of national strategies announced on the 22nd of January. The package including the "government emphasises growth on the quality-of-life and environmentally-friendly basis"?

Yes i found that one mildly amusing Thailand, too

[bigbamboo]

Mods?

Rockers?

Or more on topic ............... New Wave.

Prefer Retro myself. When the grannies of today were the young darlings of yesteryear.

"Oh Debbie, do be do....!"

[khunken]

The fact that so few companies (quite a few dropped out) have partaken in the bidding process reflects their fear that many of these projects will never even get started.

It's a top-down set of Plodprasop's mega-project ideas which have not been through proper consultations with local people & lack any environmental studies.

It will be interesting to see the protests that will inevitably occur. The government back-down will then follow.

[smutcakes]

The fact that so few companies (quite a few dropped out) have partaken in the bidding process reflects their fear that many of these projects will never even get started.

It's a top-down set of Plodprasop's mega-project ideas which have not been through proper consultations with local people & lack any environmental studies.

It will be interesting to see the protests that will inevitably occur. The government back-down will then follow.

I think it would be normal in any country where huge projects are drawn up that there will be disgruntled people, it is impossible to please everyone, so the fact that some people are voicing their displeasure should not come as a surprise, i think it would be more surprising if everyone agreed.

One positive out of this article is that it states that the commission amended regulations to allow foreign companies to be allowed to take part and be in charge of everything. In terms of qualified water management engineers and people experienced in this field, it must be a good thing.

[khunken]

The fact that so few companies (quite a few dropped out) have partaken in the bidding process reflects their fear that many of these projects will never even get started.

It's a top-down set of Plodprasop's mega-project ideas which have not been through proper consultations with local people & lack any environmental studies.

It will be interesting to see the protests that will inevitably occur. The government back-down will then follow.

I think it would be normal in any country where huge projects are drawn up that there will be disgruntled people, it is impossible to please everyone, so the fact that some people are voicing their displeasure should not come as a surprise, i think it would be more surprising if everyone agreed.

One positive out of this article is that it states that the commission amended regulations to allow foreign companies to be allowed to take part and be in charge of everything. In terms of qualified water management engineers and people experienced in this field, it must be a good thing.

It would also be normal in democratic countries where local people are consulted before projects are imposed on them. It would be normal too to conduct proper environmental impact studies and allow proper discussion about them. Neither of the above has taken place in this case. Plodprasop is an arrogant know-all, emphasised by his description of protestors as 'garbage'.

In theory I agree with your second paragraph but that might actually reinforce local protests against projects which severly impact locals.

[smutcakes]

The fact that so few companies (quite a few dropped out) have partaken in the bidding process reflects their fear that many of these projects will never even get started.

It's a top-down set of Plodprasop's mega-project ideas which have not been through proper consultations with local people & lack any environmental studies.

It will be interesting to see the protests that will inevitably occur. The government back-down will then follow.

I think it would be normal in any country where huge projects are drawn up that there will be disgruntled people, it is impossible to please everyone, so the fact that some people are voicing their displeasure should not come as a surprise, i think it would be more surprising if everyone agreed.

One positive out of this article is that it states that the commission amended regulations to allow foreign companies to be allowed to take part and be in charge of everything. In terms of qualified water management engineers and people experienced in this field, it must be a good thing.

It would also be normal in democratic countries where local people are consulted before projects are imposed on them. It would be normal too to conduct proper environmental impact studies and allow proper discussion about them. Neither of the above has taken place in this case. Plodprasop is an arrogant know-all, emphasised by his description of protestors as 'garbage'.

In theory I agree with your second paragraph but that might actually reinforce local protests against projects which severly impact locals.

Other than what this particular group are saying, i believe you or I have very little knowledge about who has been consulted on what. I agree regarding studies etc, again I am unsure what has been done to that end- other than this group saying not enough has been done.

Working in an industry where i regularly have both Thai and foreign people disagreeing with one thing or another, I have learnt that you can empathize,discuss,give ground in some cases on many things etc but it will never be enough for some people. I am not saying this is the case here, but also I am not going to automatically assume what they say etc is gospel truth.

Just because Plod...... appears a bit of a moron, it does not mean all the people actually carrying out the work are incompetent and share the same views as him.

[khunken]

The fact that so few companies (quite a few dropped out) have partaken in the bidding process reflects their fear that many of these projects will never even get started.

It's a top-down set of Plodprasop's mega-project ideas which have not been through proper consultations with local people & lack any environmental studies.

It will be interesting to see the protests that will inevitably occur. The government back-down will then follow.

I think it would be normal in any country where huge projects are drawn up that there will be disgruntled people, it is impossible to please everyone, so the fact that some people are voicing their displeasure should not come as a surprise, i think it would be more surprising if everyone agreed.

One positive out of this article is that it states that the commission amended regulations to allow foreign companies to be allowed to take part and be in charge of everything. In terms of qualified water management engineers and people experienced in this field, it must be a good thing.

It would also be normal in democratic countries where local people are consulted before projects are imposed on them. It would be normal too to conduct proper environmental impact studies and allow proper discussion about them. Neither of the above has taken place in this case. Plodprasop is an arrogant know-all, emphasised by his description of protestors as 'garbage'.

In theory I agree with your second paragraph but that might actually reinforce local protests against projects which severly impact locals.

Other than what this particular group are saying, i believe you or I have very little knowledge about who has been consulted on what. I agree regarding studies etc, again I am unsure what has been done to that end- other than this group saying not enough has been done.

Working in an industry where i regularly have both Thai and foreign people disagreeing with one thing or another, I have learnt that you can empathize,discuss,give ground in some cases on many things etc but it will never be enough for some people. I am not saying this is the case here, but also I am not going to automatically assume what they say etc is gospel truth.

Just because Plod...... appears a bit of a moron, it does not mean all the people actually carrying out the work are incompetent and share the same views as him.

No one said that the people carrying out Plod's dirty work are incompetent - they do what they're told.

Yes, in normal negotiations some comprimising will often help reach an agreement. Not when one is dealing with Plod unfortunately. That's why at least some of the projects have already acquired protestors even before they're started. It's not a good omen for success.

[waza]

Garbage doesn't have the right to opinion, they should shut up and bear what their betters deem best.

In case anyone wonders, yes, that was sarcasm.

They also don't have the political clout to gain any kickbacks. Remember the target audience for this water project scam is foreign owned manufacturing plants not the people of Thailand.

[drdoom6996]

Too late. The money has already been divvied up.

And you don't think they ever gave a damn about what the people think. This Is The PTP. They don't give a stinking you know what about what you think.