Define Poverty - in a Thailand context ...

[benalibina]

?? Social communities he was referring to, i think.

[Kitsune]

?? Social communities he was referring to, i think.

sorry im lost

[boosta]

sorry im lost

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This here:

?? Social communities he was referring to, i think.

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was the answer to your question here:

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I don't think that's harmony that's FEAR'

Explain the FEAR part how you see it please ? Interested to know.

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He's trying to say that refraining from telling the police about your neighbors' breaking the law because you don't want to become an outcast pariah isn't an example of maintaining social harmony, but an example of fear.

[David48]

?? Social communities he was referring to, i think.

sorry im lost

May I help ?

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[David48]

Without trying to define poverty, I'd say that there is a great fear of that in Thailand. This is mostly due to the lack of a social welfare net. So family (and friends, to a certain extent) are extremely important. Thais rely on their network of family and friends to get through the hard times, because they know the government won't be there for them. So these relationships are of utmost importance to the Thais. More so than the west, where we're taught to fend for ourselves and rely on no one (except the government, of course). Individualism and all that.

This explanation should help some to better understand why Thais choose social harmony over, relentless enforcement of rules or laws. Longterm they just can’t afford to make too many enemies in their communities, so they often turn a blind eye even when they all know someone is doing bad things. One never wants to be singled out as rocking the boat.

I haven't been here long enough to make that valued judgement ... though, if true, would certainly explain, in part the veneer of Social Harmony that the Thai Culture seems to have.

Thanks to you both for the contribution.

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[ignis]

English News this week state that 1 in 6 UK kids live in Poverty, and is getting worse..

Many Western [rich Countries ?] have slums areas, beggers

[thaibeachlovers]

The guy I saw in Bkk lying on the pavement, filthy, I would say was serious case of poverty. I don't think he was a professional beggar- more likely someone from the countryside came looking for work and didn't find any.

[thaibeachlovers]

English News this week state that 1 in 6 UK kids live in Poverty, and is getting worse..

Many Western [rich Countries ?] have slums areas, beggers

I take such reports with a grain of salt. Many times seen them on tv complaining that they have nothing, but tv in the lounge and a kitchen cupboard full of canned food.

It's like the bleeding heart refugee reports that has an obviously well fed family bemoaning that they are "starving"!

[villagefarang]

Without trying to define poverty, I'd say that there is a great fear of that in Thailand. This is mostly due to the lack of a social welfare net. So family (and friends, to a certain extent) are extremely important. Thais rely on their network of family and friends to get through the hard times, because they know the government won't be there for them. So these relationships are of utmost importance to the Thais. More so than the west, where we're taught to fend for ourselves and rely on no one (except the government, of course). Individualism and all that.

This explanation should help some to better understand why Thais choose social harmony over, relentless enforcement of rules or laws. Longterm they just can’t afford to make too many enemies in their communities, so they often turn a blind eye even when they all know someone is doing bad things. One never wants to be singled out as rocking the boat.

I haven't been here long enough to make that valued judgement ... though, if true, would certainly explain, in part the veneer of Social Harmony that the Thai Culture seems to have.

Thanks to you both for the contribution.

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I think calling it a veneer may give some the wrong impression. Wherever we come from, we are conditioned to behave in particular ways. It becomes so much a part of who we are, that it is far more than a veneer I think, and not easily peeled away.

Without travel and exposure to other cultures, most of us would never have reason to question our own motivations for what we do or believe. For some this exposure leads to accusation and condemnation of others for being different, thus wrong. Hopefully the majority of us end up learning as much about ourselves as we do about others and become better people for it.

[ABCer]

Can we test the man eating predator on you first then Cluey? That way we'll get an indication of how precious you really think human life is.

Many times I mentioned here on TV that "Life is cheap in Thailand". In terms of Road accidents. In terms of phony "Safety First" campaigns. In terms of poor Social Security Benefits schemes. Etc.

From the purely individual point of view there is no Absolute value of life. My life is all-important... to me. It may be of insignificance ... to you. Your life may be an impediment.... to your beneficiaries....

Thus the value of life can be a variable between negative infinity and positive infinity.

But even from a simple proposition like "My Life is all-important to me" there are many deviations. E.g. mother can sacrifice her life for a child's. Some will sacrifice their lives for other people's, for the country (soldier). Some will sacrifice their lives for the death of others (terrorist). Insurance companies are the ones who will put a precise monetary value of our lives. Now, tell me where to stop, please...

Edited June 17, 2013 by ABCer

[ABCer]

I would define poverty as a lack of friends or family.

You would have to be a well disliked Thai to go hungry though.

Nobody is hungry in Thailand. A WAT every 500 m. And they do feed people. Any street food vendor will give you food for free if asked. This is a Buddhist place. Money beggars are not hungry.

By your definition I'm at the bottom line of poverty! But since I do not feel this way, you might want to redefine it... Or let the IMF know

[villagefarang]

Poor people in the west freeze to death.

No such problem here.

Technically speaking they may not be frozen, but we do get a death or two each year in the mountainous regions of Chiang Rai, due to exposure to the cold.

[ABCer]

English News this week state that 1 in 6 UK kids live in Poverty, and is getting worse..

Many Western [rich Countries ?] have slums areas, beggers

I take such reports with a grain of salt. Many times seen them on tv complaining that they have nothing, but tv in the lounge and a kitchen cupboard full of canned food.

It's like the bleeding heart refugee reports that has an obviously well fed family bemoaning that they are "starving"!

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I realize off-topic, but thought might be of interest.

Boosta, you are not off topic. Didn't we hear about a poor Thai somewhere in Chiang Mai area who was robbed on 400 M Bt cash? About a year or two ago? You think he lives in poverty now?

Edited June 17, 2013 by ABCer

[boosta]

Nobody is hungry in Thailand. A WAT every 500 m. And they do feed people. Any street food vendor will give you food for free if asked. This is a Buddhist place. Money beggars are not hungry.

By your definition I'm at the bottom line of poverty! But since I do not feel this way, you might want to redefine it... Or let the IMF know

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I would say anyone relying for their regular meals on handouts from non-family-members qualifies as desperately poor; I'm familiar with the shame involved in being in that position.

The governments of well-developed countries (most anyway) try to maintain their poor in some level of dignity. Obviously Thailand can't afford that.

Edited June 17, 2013 by boosta

[boosta]

Poor people in the west freeze to death.

No such problem here.

Technically speaking they may not be frozen, but we do get a death or two each year in the mountainous regions of Chiang Rai, due to exposure to the cold.

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I've heard of programs distributing clothing and blankets to the hill tribes and others in need up there.

Cynics talk about them selling it all when the cold season's past and then freezing the next year. . .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Poor people in the west freeze to death.

No such problem here.

Technically speaking they may not be frozen, but we do get a death or two each year in the mountainous regions of Chiang Rai, due to exposure to the cold.

That's usually a drunk falling asleep outside in his undies.

In the west hundreds of pensioners die from cold in their home every year, can't afford to buy fuel.

Edited June 17, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[metisdead]

Off topic posts removed.

[boosta]

That's usually a drunk falling asleep outside in his undies.

In the west hundreds of pensioners die from cold in their home every year, can't afford to buy fuel.

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Pretty brutal comment from a Thai about his countrymen.

Tak and Loei provincial governmentes often declares disaster status due to cold weather emergencies in the mountains, it can get down to zero Celsius and in those conditions with wind-chill factor ordinary people - even the occasional monk - do die of hypothermia even indoors, not enough fuel for fires in some places.

Have a heart, even if you think these are "just hill tribe" people. . .

[ABCer]

You would think that young ladies marrying older men was a new thing.

You can also tell that he's not very switched on to Thai culture, the concept of Mia Noi's and Mia Lek was well established well before any farang made any impact on this country.

You mix things up.

Old Thai man with young Thai woman = tradition for Thai lady

Old white foreign man with young Thai lady = disgrace for Thai lady

Had I been a Thai lady I would have said:- "exchanging tradition for a disgrace" as anon in the Thai Daily.