overstay

[butsarakam]

My daughter, a Thai citizen, is holding a singapore Passport. She is 17 yrs and would like to leave Thailand with her Singapore Passport which is already overstayed. Does she has to pay the fine? she has not applied for her Thai passport.

[joepattaya1961]

Do a quick calculation.......is a new passport cheaper than the overstay fine?

If she is leaving on a Singapore passport, she almost certainly has to pay the fine.

[ubonjoe]

She will have to pay an overstay of 500 baht per day up to a maximum of 20,000 baht.

Getting a Thai passport would not help because she must depart the country on the same passport she entered on.

From info I have read Singapore citizens are not allowed to hold dual nationalities.

[joeaverage]

not necessarily, there is little chance they could link the two -- on exit that is. As regards singapore and dual nationality, i could not speculate

[lopburi3]

She is here as a Singapore citizen and has overstayed and will be fined. As for Thai passport Singapore has strict dual citizenship laws so she needs to be careful to not violate them.

[Dork]

It strikes me that if she were to refuse paying the fine this would be very difficult for immigration to prosecute. How could a Thai citizen be charged with a crime under the immigration act?

[butsarakam]

Thank you all for the reply. The conclusion is she applied for a thai passport and leave the country with the new book.

[Mario2008]

It strikes me that if she were to refuse paying the fine this would be very difficult for immigration to prosecute. How could a Thai citizen be charged with a crime under the immigration act?

That would be my position too, but the only way you can find out is to go to court. But most people have a pane to catch and don't want to miss their flights waiting for a court decision and hire a lawyer.

[lopburi3]

Thank you all for the reply. The conclusion is she applied for a thai passport and leave the country with the new book.

Unless a different name/DOB this will likely be found at exit and not allowed - the passport used for entry must be used for exit anywhere in the computer age.

[Gone]

Thank you all for the reply. The conclusion is she applied for a thai passport and leave the country with the new book.

You use "and leave the country with the new book" in present tense. Do you mean she has already "left" with the new passport or you think she will be able to "leave" when she wants?

I am also confused as well as to how she is a Thai citizen but has a Singapore passport?

Your/her problems may be over but please keep posting so the rest of us can understand this situation. I can't figure out how she can leave with a new Thai passport as well because she entered as a Singaporian.

[Dork]

It strikes me that if she were to refuse paying the fine this would be very difficult for immigration to prosecute. How could a Thai citizen be charged with a crime under the immigration act?

That would be my position too, but the only way you can find out is to go to court. But most people have a pane to catch and don't want to miss their flights waiting for a court decision and hire a lawyer.

Have there been reports of immigration actually refusing to let someone out of the country in this situation either on their foreign overstayed passport or their Thai passport? Or is it just speculation that they might do that?

Clearly the situation between a foreigner and a Thai citizen is not the same because if a foreigner went to the airport and said yes I've overstayed but I'm not paying the fine, they would certainly be arrested. But if a Thai citizen did the same and they can't be arrested because they haven't committed a crime under the immigration act, then what?

To me the situation is similar to an overstayed foreign child. Yes it is against immigration regulations but since (due to their age) they can't be prosecuted so an overstay note is entered into their passport and they're on their way. No fine.

[FritsSikkink]

Dual citizenship seems to be possible up to the age of 22.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_nationality_law

Dual citizenship is generally not recognised in Singapore, but is possible up to the age of 22.^[7] Such dual citizens may have acquired citizenship by birth in a foreign country, from a foreign citizen parent, or by naturalisation. Singaporean citizens who acquire citizenship of a foreign country after the age of 18 may lose Singaporean citizenship.^[8] Foreigners who naturalise as Singaporean citizens are required to renounce all foreign citizenships.^[9] Minors who are dual or multiple citizens by birth on foreign soil, by descent from foreign parents or by naturalisation are required to renounce all foreign citizenships by the age of 22 or may lose their Singaporean citizenship.^[10]

[merijn]

It strikes me that if she were to refuse paying the fine this would be very difficult for immigration to prosecute. How could a Thai citizen be charged with a crime under the immigration act?

That would be my position too, but the only way you can find out is to go to court. But most people have a pane to catch and don't want to miss their flights waiting for a court decision and hire a lawyer.

Have there been reports of immigration actually refusing to let someone out of the country in this situation either on their foreign overstayed passport or their Thai passport? Or is it just speculation that they might do that?

Clearly the situation between a foreigner and a Thai citizen is not the same because if a foreigner went to the airport and said yes I've overstayed but I'm not paying the fine, they would certainly be arrested. But if a Thai citizen did the same and they can't be arrested because they haven't committed a crime under the immigration act, then what?

To me the situation is similar to an overstayed foreign child. Yes it is against immigration regulations but since (due to their age) they can't be prosecuted so an overstay note is entered into their passport and they're on their way. No fine.

As she used the foreign passport to enter the country she will be treated as a foreigner regarding the overstay and fine.

That she applied for a Thai passport does not change the overstay ruling.

[Dork]

It strikes me that if she were to refuse paying the fine this would be very difficult for immigration to prosecute. How could a Thai citizen be charged with a crime under the immigration act?

That would be my position too, but the only way you can find out is to go to court. But most people have a pane to catch and don't want to miss their flights waiting for a court decision and hire a lawyer.

Have there been reports of immigration actually refusing to let someone out of the country in this situation either on their foreign overstayed passport or their Thai passport? Or is it just speculation that they might do that?

Clearly the situation between a foreigner and a Thai citizen is not the same because if a foreigner went to the airport and said yes I've overstayed but I'm not paying the fine, they would certainly be arrested. But if a Thai citizen did the same and they can't be arrested because they haven't committed a crime under the immigration act, then what?

To me the situation is similar to an overstayed foreign child. Yes it is against immigration regulations but since (due to their age) they can't be prosecuted so an overstay note is entered into their passport and they're on their way. No fine.

As she used the foreign passport to enter the country she will be treated as a foreigner regarding the overstay and fine.

That she applied for a Thai passport does not change the overstay ruling.

Again I would ask, is that speculation on your part or do you know for a fact that is how immigration treat these cases?

[joeaverage]

i would try on the thai passport, if there is an issue, apologise profusely, say you made a mistake, present the sing passport and see what happens next.

they either collect or waive the fine, lesson learned

[Dork]

Section 81 of the Immigration Act says:

Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

Is it not the case that on presentation of documents proving that you are a Thai citizen, you are not an Alien? You can't be both.

And if you are not an Alien then this doesn't apply to you.

[ThaidDown]

If you enter on a foreign passport then you are in the country as an alien. Assuming your daughter exits Thailand using her Thai passport without problems she will probably remain in the computer system as still in the country on the Singaporean passport.

If she tries to enter or exit Thailand in the future, especially using her Singaporean passport this fact could well be displayed. Consequences...I don't know.

[ubonjoe]

Plus there would be an entry/permitted to stay stamp that does not have a departure stamp for that entry in the Singapore passport.