I Am A Victim Of Racism, And I Want More Of It!

[evadgib]

The British Flag touches more boobs & bums here than the Marquess of Bath!

Edited June 17, 2013 by evadgib

[lujanit]

whatever

methinks the OP says too much but thinks very little. It takes all sorts of peeps to make a world

[NoshowJones]

A+ post. Would read again

Nice story, and where movies are concerned, you would have these untalented muscle bound brain dead "actors" Stallone and that Austrian guy Arnold whatever, to blame.

[ABCer]

Sorry, gentlemen, I must disagree with many of you.

- OP - your "I am a victim of Racism, and I want more of it. I love Thailand" sucks. I am surprised TV allows open calls for Racism.

- others - Those of you who are suffering from fits of history induced guilt complex, - please stop! Such were the times. British, Americans, French etc. - no need to beat your chests with 'Mea Culpa'.

Your Gov'ts corrected, compensated and over-corrected these wrongs. I believe even to the point of introducing a concept of "Positive Discrimination", which is a contradiction in terms.

Those of you who claim that Thais cannot be Racist - wake up. Just because the pecking order has slightly shifted, does not mean that Thais cannot be or are not Racist towards other ethnic groups, Nationalities,

colours, etc.

Unless you postulate that discrimination by Whites of other colored people is Racist , but not the other way around... And, please,do not expect for e.g. the cost of a chicken!

From my observations most of simple Thais are holding extremely low regard and high contempt for Farangs, Lao, Burmese, Cambodians, etc. If this is not racist attitudes - tell me. Moreover, Thais are very

prejudiced to other Thais - be it tribal folk, Chinese origin Thais, Thais with simply darker skin and ignorant uneducated villagers. And, please, do not tell me that these are only social divides. I may be politically

incorrect here, but this is a fact.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ABCer

[boosta]

Don't know what you're talking about, no one here is claiming Thais aren't racist nor that genuine racism isn't a real problem.

It's just never* a problem worth white male living in Thailand complaining about, due to the fact we're benefiting in so many ways from our privileged race and sex, here and now on a daily basis, nothing to do with feelings of historical guilt.

*well maybe not never, but have a hard time imagining a truly serious situation worthy enough

[GuestHouse]

"Lets say the UK dropped their political correctness and adopted the Thai 'anything goes' attitude for just a week. There would be an uproar, probably rioting all over the country, people would likely die."

The UK wasn't always PC, Google TV shows like "Love They Neighbour" and "Mind Your Language", even "Rising Damp"

The programmes you mention (and you forgot the ultimate - Spike Milligan's "Curry and Chips"), did so much to break down racial barriers and reveal the bigoted main characters representing white English society as a whole for what they arguably then were.

The irony is that now we in the west have gone totally into overdrive with political correctness that no TV broadcaster would even consider making programmes that critique the opposite perspective. i.e. that the OTT political correctness we have today (as described by the OP) in regard to race and culture is equally as racist and bigoted as the programmes you mentioned, but from the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

Quite possibly so in Rising Damp but there was racism against the 'honky' in Love Thy Neighbour and the Engllish main character of Mind Your Language was not the racist, it was his multi cultural class that were racist towards each others stereotypes.

And then you also have the anti-sexism PC brigade where movies like the Carry On series or programmes like Benny Hill could never be made.

And are we any better off now hiding racism/sexism and pretending it doesn't exist or adopting the Lenny Bruce approach to it?

Nowhere is racism and sexism practiced more profoundly than in Farangland.

I also remember some of those British comedy series from the 1960s and 1970s.

There was curry and chips and of course not forgetting, Till Death Us do Part, dear old Alf Garnet with his silly moo and his hatred of people of colour. Coons is how he described them and that was meant to be a comedy. I believe the Yanks adopted their own version, with the main character being an Archie Bunker. There was Spike

Milligan and his Pakistani daleks. the Irish weatherman.

As yet I have never seen a Thai TV series completely themed about ridiculing people of other races

You are correct, you have never seen such a Thai TV series, but then you are missing a point.

These TV series where far more than ridiculing people, the language is 'now' offensive in part because of the role these TV series played in changing public attitudes. Alf Garnet was not a blind racist rant, it was a parody of blind racist rants - exposing and ridiculing the racist.

You are also missing the point that Thailand (in the age of TV) has not been subject to mass immigration - Thailand did experience mass immigration during the early 20th century and the Thai response was to enact what would now be regarded as racist laws.

Times have changed since Thailand of the early 20th century and they have definitely changed since the UK of the 60s and 70s.

What has not changed is where UK TV (and the UK arts) have a continuing tradition of social comment, little if any social comment can be found in Thai TV or Thai arts.

Immigration is a subject which has a huge impact on society, exactly the stuff for social comment in the arts and media and humour is a very effective means for people to examine social challenges and social attitudes.

The result is, UK society, UK law have responded to immigration and have moved forward with changes to the laws and social customs/attitudes to accommodate the changes in society brought about by immigration.

Thailand has not.

[GuestHouse]

The British Flag touches more boobs & bums here than the Marquess of Bath!

It is true, my old mad used to say the British must be the only people on the planet that wear their national flag on their <deleted>.

Its also true that I see more union jacks in Thailand than I do in the UK.

[ABCer]

Dear Boosta, here is what I'm talking about.

Beetlejuice : "Nowhere is racism and sexism practiced more profoundly than in Farangland."

Berkshire : " Such profoundly true words...I am impressed Beetle dude.

Every time a farang mentions the word "racism" in the Thai context, it really dilutes the real meaning. Because in Thailand, there's no historical context. Unless one considers being a member of a privileged group to be a "victim." Well, that's how it used to be in Thailand, although that's eroding a bit due to the types of farangs arriving on these shores every day. But the word "racism" as applied to how farangs are treated in Thailand has almost no meaning to the average Thai. None. To put it simply, they have no idea what the heck you're talking about. And they shouldn't.

The term racism as applied in the American context conjures up all kinds of ugly and horrible images from our past. We're talking rapes, lynchings, cross-burnings, and of course, slavery. It's a factual part of our history that we'd very much like to forget. So a racist in America is truly scum, putting it as mildly as I can. No one wants to be associated with that term because of the historical context.

So from that perspective, a farang complaining that he's a victim of racism in Thailand is almost comical. A victim of what, a life of leisure? Well that's what it seems to the average Thai. And again, calling a Thai a racist is meaningless because they have no idea what you're talking about."

I also happen to believe that

- racism does not have to go from the top down only; it can and does go from the bottom up; in US I observed as many blacks hating whites as the other way around;

- rich racist, poor racist - still a racist;

- Africa is full of black/black racism today;

- slavery, lynching, cross-burnings are not the only signs of racism;

- a Thai cannot be called a racist because he has no idea of what you're talking about - is wrong!;

- Thais are racist towards many different groups - and they should know about this;

- the OP statement "I am a victim of Racism" is not comical;

- comical to the point of idiotic is what follows: "and I want more of it! I love Thailand" - these two parts in one context on one breath out of one mouth is profanity!

What I cannot accept is that so many people do not understand - OP statement is insulting to us all and to Thailand. I'm really sorry...

[Kilgore Trout]

Nowhere is racism and sexism practiced more profoundly than in Farangland.

Such profoundly true words...I am impressed Beetle dude.

Every time a farang mentions the word "racism" in the Thai context, it really dilutes the real meaning. Because in Thailand, there's no historical context. Unless one considers being a member of a privileged group to be a "victim." Well, that's how it used to be in Thailand, although that's eroding a bit due to the types of farangs arriving on these shores every day. But the word "racism" as applied to how farangs are treated in Thailand has almost no meaning to the average Thai. None. To put it simply, they have no idea what the heck you're talking about. And they shouldn't.

The term racism as applied in the American context conjures up all kinds of ugly and horrible images from our past. We're talking rapes, lynchings, cross-burnings, and of course, slavery. It's a factual part of our history that we'd very much like to forget. So a racist in America is truly scum, putting it as mildly as I can. No one wants to be associated with that term because of the historical context.

So from that perspective, a farang complaining that he's a victim of racism in Thailand is almost comical. A victim of what, a life of leisure? Well that's what it seems to the average Thai. And again, calling a Thai a racist is meaningless because they have no idea what you're talking about.

Great post. Yes totally agree in regards to the how the word is used.

I have always regarded the word racist as a term that should be used for someone who is intentionally discriminating, should know better or having some sort of evil streak in it. That's the kind of image i get anyway. I think Thais still discriminate but its more about ignorance as opposed to intention and I dont think it has any bad intention in it. They are just brought up to believe all Westerners have money and dont know yet that it isnt right to treat one human different to another human in the same situation.

Although I agree the word racist shouldn't be used I do think that there is quite a bit of discrimination in this country. Not only towards us but actually even within their own people depending on status and skin colour. Watch a day's worth of Thai TV soaps if in doubt. This may be another debate on another thread but thats my view.

The difference in this country is that many foreigners regard it as a non issue because it has no direct harm and most people take the rough with the smooth. What people do is they think just because it has no real harm that is must mean its not discrimination. For example if your here and you get charged more for your chicken and rice because you are perceived by your appearance to have more money then you laugh it off. Back home you would be stunned for 5 minutes, contest it and perhaps even get the company fined or in trouble. So we all know the principle but we allow for it because of other conditions. The fact it happens here and alot more accepted does not change the fact its discrimination, it only changes how we react.

So if an American displays wanton discrimination against someone from Indonesia or Brazil, or a hispanic, then it can not be considered racism because there is no historical context akin to slavery or jim crowe etc.??

That has got to be the most utterly ridiculous thing I have heard all week. Call it what you want, treating people badly or differently based solely on the color of their skin or nationality is wrong whatever the historical context. Didn't your mommy teach you that?

[Berkshire]

So if an American displays wanton discrimination against someone from Indonesia or Brazil, or a hispanic, then it can not be considered racism because there is no historical context akin to slavery or jim crowe etc.??

As usual, Kilgore, your example is way out in left field and only proves your ignorance of the topic at hand. But to answer your ridiculous question, of course that would be racism. There is always historical context when it involves an American (or the white man). Whites have discriminated against every race on the planet, surely you know this. I think you're intentionally being obtuse just to mislead.

The point is that farangs in Thailand trying to play the race card and argue "reverse discrimination," I'm saying it simply won't register in Thailand. The Thais certainly discriminate, but it's more a class or seniority thing than race. In Asia, people tend to accept their lot in life more so than in the west, which means that they accept their role in the pecking order. Old discriminate against young. Rich discriminate against poor. Boss discriminates against subordinate. That sort of thing. "Discriminate" is probably the wrong word, but I'm using that so those with a western mindset can understand.

[Kilgore Trout]

So if an American displays wanton discrimination against someone from Indonesia or Brazil, or a hispanic, then it can not be considered racism because there is no historical context akin to slavery or jim crowe etc.??

As usual, Kilgore, your example is way out in left field and only proves your ignorance of the topic at hand. But to answer your ridiculous question, of course that would be racism. There is always historical context when it involves an American (or the white man). Whites have discriminated against every race on the planet, surely you know this. I think you're intentionally being obtuse just to mislead.

The point is that farangs in Thailand trying to play the race card and argue "reverse discrimination," I'm saying it simply won't register in Thailand. The Thais certainly discriminate, but it's more a class or seniority thing than race. In Asia, people tend to accept their lot in life more so than in the west, which means that they accept their role in the pecking order. Old discriminate against young. Rich discriminate against poor. Boss discriminates against subordinate. That sort of thing. "Discriminate" is probably the wrong word, but I'm using that so those with a western mindset can understand.

And as usual, you are trying to complicate things.

Discrimination is wrong, full stop. Historical context has nothing to do with it, if a black person doesn't serve me because I'm white then they are wrong. "There is always a historical context when it comes to americans or whites" that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have ever heard and I am not white european, my ancestors were the ones being discriminated against, not the other way around.

BTW; there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination", discrimination is discrimination. Stop labeling people and using the race card, it only shows YOUR ignorance.

[Berkshire]

And as usual, you are trying to complicate things.

Discrimination is wrong, full stop. Historical context has nothing to do with it, if a black person doesn't serve me because I'm white then they are wrong. "There is always a historical context when it comes to americans or whites" that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have ever heard and I am not white european, my ancestors were the ones being discriminated against, not the other way around.

BTW; there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination", discrimination is discrimination. Stop labeling people and using the race card, it only shows YOUR ignorance.

The whole "historical context" point is to explain how Thai society might view the farang's claim of racism. It has nothing to do with whether racism is right or wrong.

It's really not that black and white in Thailand and you know it. So if a Thai bargirl tells her farang customer, "I no like Thai men, I only like farang.." is that racism against farangs? Or how about farang English teachers who get paid more than a Thai English teacher doing the same job. Is that racism against the farang? I can go on all day. I think the point of this thread is that some farangs want their cake and eat it too. The benefits of being a farang in Thailand far outweigh the negatives. But if you feel differently, have it your way.

[Kilgore Trout]

And as usual, you are trying to complicate things.

Discrimination is wrong, full stop. Historical context has nothing to do with it, if a black person doesn't serve me because I'm white then they are wrong. "There is always a historical context when it comes to americans or whites" that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have ever heard and I am not white european, my ancestors were the ones being discriminated against, not the other way around.

BTW; there is no such thing as "reverse discrimination", discrimination is discrimination. Stop labeling people and using the race card, it only shows YOUR ignorance.

The whole "historical context" point is to explain how Thai society might view the farang's claim of racism. It has nothing to do with whether racism is right or wrong.

It's really not that black and white in Thailand and you know it. So if a Thai bargirl tells her farang customer, "I no like Thai men, I only like farang.." is that racism against farangs? Or how about farang English teachers who get paid more than a Thai English teacher doing the same job. Is that racism against the farang? I can go on all day. I think the point of this thread is that some farangs want their cake and eat it too. The benefits of being a farang in Thailand far outweigh the negatives. But if you feel differently, have it your way.

So if a Thai bargirl tells her farang customer, "I no like Thai men, I only like farang.." is that racism against farangs?

No, that is racism against Thais and/or any other race/culture she shuns

Or how about farang English teachers who get paid more than a Thai English teacher doing the same job. Is that racism against the farang?

Same job, same job and qualifications? Are you sure? I know Thais who get paid as much as "Western" teachers because they have the same Western credentials, so no that is not racism.

Yes, I'm sure you could go on all day with ridiculous examples and continue to find ways to somehow apologize for racist behavior if it comes from Thais, couldn't you?

Do you realize you said the word "falang" seven times in your post? Sounds like you could never re-adjust to Western society so in turn you try to convince yourself you are Thai. At least it seems that way to me.....up to you

[ava15]

Westerners referring to themselves and/or other westerners as farangs. Priceless.

[ABCer]

If you tell people 100 times a day they are pigs, some of them might answer 'Oink-oink' or 'fru-fru'.

As to Farang-Falang spelling

-this isn't a place for Spelling Competition

- I happen to use it both ways too

- most Thais can't articulate "R" for life

The emphasis on some of them above means that people in any society and of any race have different resistance level for brainwashing and propaganda.

Personally, I do not mind being called Falang, Farang, Hey you, by Thai strangers because

- I know what and who I am (selfrespect?)

- I make allowances for ignorant uneducated people

- I do not care if they call me a POT, provided I'm not being put into the owen or on a hotplate.

[Kilgore Trout]

If you tell people 100 times a day they are pigs, some of them might answer 'Oink-oink' or 'fru-fru'.

As to Farang-Falang spelling

-this isn't a place for Spelling Competition

- I happen to use it both ways too

- most Thais can't articulate "R" for life

The emphasis on some of them above means that people in any society and of any race have different resistance level for brainwashing and propaganda.

Personally, I do not mind being called Falang, Farang, Hey you, by Thai strangers because

- I know what and who I am (selfrespect?)

- I make allowances for ignorant uneducated people

- I do not care if they call me a POT, provided I'm not being put into the owen or on a hotplate.

Yes, I wish more people were like you....for some reason when I yell "hey you, black" at some person of color whom I don't know, they seem to get offended.

I guess they don't know who they are or can't make allowances for ignorant uneducated people like me.....

[Lammbock]

But for all this... I am not offended, I am not unhappy about it, I am quite happy to accept all this.....

Give it a couple years more and you get sick of it as everybody else here

[Steely Dan]

There is a paradox in that more overt on the surface racism may actually lead to less actual serious racism. If people are trapped inside a straightjacket of politically correct behaviour then resentment over this festers, the resistance to flying the flag of St. George being a case in point. Imagine if ASEAN instructed the Thais not to celebrate Loi Kratong as those of other religions and nationalities might feel excluded, I'm sure the round of applause would be deafening, not least from those in the tourist industry. My wife does find it embarrassing being married to me as the default attitude from strangers is to treat her as if she were an ex-bargirl, she is actually a dentist and sometimes breaks cover to extract squirming apologies on occasion, I shouldn't mention this, but it helps no end with immigration too.

[klubex99]

Sorry to raise this thread again, I just came back from traveling the south and caught up with the most recent posts. I tend to stay away from the internet when I am in leisure time because I work online and its nice to break away.

Its strange how most of the posts are related to the dissection of the word 'racism' and its apparent meanings to some people.

I suppose we most people here see the act of racism as an attitude directly linked to hatred or something having to have had profound historical connections to slavery and so on.... While the majority of people seem to be clashing on their personal perceptions of the TRUE meaning of racism.... here it is for you.

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Noun

1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...
2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

So there you have it. You can't say that something is socially discriminatory or prejudicial and not actually racist when that is the exact definition of 'racism' when in the context of a particular race. To do so would be undermining one's own argument surely.

Also to attempt to divide the context of the OP from the attitude of 60s and 70s UK TV classics such as Till Death u Do Part, and I will add 'Love Thy Neightbour' where the white man referred to his black neighbour as 'Nig nog' and 'Sambo' and whom in return was labelled 'Honky' and 'Snowflake'. Those shows actually ridiculed the racist who usually was left looking humiliated and outwitted by his coloured counterpart by the end of the show. To perceive it as being deliberately racially demeaning (IMHO) is obviously being viewed by the eyes of a racist.

I have actually been a victim of race hate, when I backpacked across Africa for 6 months, in a place called Nkhotakota on the shores of Lake Malawi, many moons ago. I was invited to a traditional Malawian wedding in some random village some 15 KM outside of town, and during the partying a group of drunken yobs turned up from a nearby village and all hell broke loose, all I know is next minute I was bundled into a hut with a load of women including the bride and was told to never go out 'bad thing, bad thing'. There was a lot of scuffling and shouting and screaming going on, and one of the women told me these guys want to kill me.

As it transpired, one of the bride's brothers had 'allegedly' been suspected of murdering someone from the other village, and they came to exact revenge and seemed to think that the 'Muzungu' (me) was more than adequate to settle the score. I was in there for about half an hour until the chiefs got together to compromise a solution. Obviously I was spared, but I don't mind telling people, I was in tears afterwards, I was so relieved. I thought I was going to be hacked to pieces for sure, and why? Not just because I was a token sacrifice, because I was white, and so I was the best token sacrifice.

That was 18 years ago and I still have occasional nightmares about it. Do I hate Africans? No of course I don't I went back again 2 years later for 4 months. To hate an entire race because of a mob of drunken uneducated idiots, It may have been Africans that put me in that position, but it was also Africans that saved me. There were also incidents where I was spat on for being white and also some guy wanted to fight me because I was white. But these seemed insignificant compared with the former experience. It didn't help that I was among the first whites that had been in the country for over 25 years after Hastings Banda banned entry by foreign tourists.

So I know all about real hard core racism, and to the poster who claims I am new to traveling.... I don't think 23 countries traveled so far can be considered as new, I have backpacked all over Europe, Africa and Asia. I am no stranger to cultural differences, and I am far from being a baby.

My use of the word racism is absolutely valid.

[Scottythai]

OK... just to help those who can't read.

My point I am making is for all you lot who constantly bitch and moan about Thais and the Thai ways. How you are ripped off, marginalized....

Is it better in your country???

So you know what to do then.

OK... just to help those who can't read.

My point I am making is for all you lot who constantly bitch and moan about Thais and the Thai ways. How you are ripped off, marginalized....

Is it better in your country???

So you know what to do then.

So your topic is really : "Why are so many people bitching about Thailand?"

The topic already runs here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/644318-why-are-there-so-many-people-who-just-bitch-about-this-country/

I think it is a fun topic and full of odd ball humor. You hate it and are drawn to posting in it. If you want to look after your family then do so save and imigrate back to where you are from.

Humor you have None

[Scottythai]

Wow just wow. Some people are so bitter when I guy make s post thats fun about his views (this is a forum so views are acceptable) on Thailand they scream and cry. I think it's time to wipe some sand out of those vag's.

1) If you are bitter and must post attacks and calling someone racist then most likely it's due to the way that you think.

2) If you cry about HAVEing to be stuck in Thailand last I checked no one is holding a gun to your head. And I am sure your Family would much rather you go to your own country and just send cheques from your lovely personality here.

3) No one made you read this and no one is making you reply to it is that Simple. So if something imagined has slighterd you then ignore the thread!

[klubex99]

Wow just wow. Some people are so bitter when I guy make s post thats fun about his views (this is a forum so views are acceptable) on Thailand they scream and cry. I think it's time to wipe some sand out of those vag's.

1) If you are bitter and must post attacks and calling someone racist then most likely it's due to the way that you think.

2) If you cry about HAVEing to be stuck in Thailand last I checked no one is holding a gun to your head. And I am sure your Family would much rather you go to your own country and just send cheques from your lovely personality here.

3) No one made you read this and no one is making you reply to it is that Simple. So if something imagined has slighterd you then ignore the thread!

Probably the first poster to understand the exact context of the original post... Well done Scottythai.

You nailed it... I knew it would draw out a lot of the usual vitriol towards life here.

I love the old 'rose tinted glasses' remarks that always come out from the crew who have a lot of years under their belt. As if someone is still wearing rose tinted glasses after the first 12 months... hahaha. Mine came off after a few months, like I said I am well traveled and was able to suss this place out quickly. I have been to a lot of places you truly would NOT want to make a life.

Thailand? Man.... some people just don't know where they got it made.

[Scottythai]

I could not agree more. From the harshes or working if camps in the extreeme North to time spend in Hassi Messaoud (Sahara) And all the people and cultures I have met between Thailand is a true paradise. Some people could have it all and still find a reason to be bitter and spiteful. I won't leave Thailand till I am kicked out or kick the bucket.