Solarcell kit ? for small home

[Nakonamath]

Hi

Anyone have experience with DIY Solarcell kits, which connect to the grid ?

Im considering to buy a 280W panel and a Grid tie inverter, and plug it into the wall.

i dont buy it as a well thought investment, but a bit of hobby use, get knowledge, and if it and return some electricity to the grid of course.

So my questions are.

- Is it really as simple as said, panel wired to the Grid tie inverter, and then plug to the wall ?

- Does it need to be connected next to our Electric relays in the house for best delivery, or can i plug it anywhere ?

- How much of a 2500 baht electricity bill would i be able to shave off with a well placed 280w panel ?

i am not looking for a professionel installation, or longterm investment as we live in a rental house, and i dont try to run our electrical 100% on solar energy.

I am not cutting us off from the grid, the idea is just to see how much we can rewind the meter with a 10.000 baht kit.

Finally, any one know a good shop selling ? i found a few, 280W can be bought at around 8000baht + grid tie inverter

Jack

[Crossy]

Yes, for such a small system it is that easy.

Position the cells facing due south at a few degrees inclination, connect up the inverter and plug in to any outlet.

A 280W system will make about 1 unit per day, maybe a bit more on a good day so say 30 units a month = 120Baht.

Unless your daytime usage is very low your meter won't actually go backwards.

Do ensure that your cells and inverter are correctly matched for DC voltage.

[Nakonamath]

Yes, for such a small system it is that easy.

Position the cells facing due south at a few degrees inclination, connect up the inverter and plug in to any outlet.

A 280W system will make about 1 unit per day, maybe a bit more on a good day so say 30 units a month = 120Baht.

Unless your daytime usage is very low your meter won't actually go backwards.

Do ensure that your cells and inverter are correctly matched for DC voltage.

Allright that is not much i see,

How much is 1 unit measured in KW ?

i see a guy in bahtsold, he claims he get around 1500 baht from a 280w panel

Jack

[Crossy]

Yes, for such a small system it is that easy.

Position the cells facing due south at a few degrees inclination, connect up the inverter and plug in to any outlet.

A 280W system will make about 1 unit per day, maybe a bit more on a good day so say 30 units a month = 120Baht.

Unless your daytime usage is very low your meter won't actually go backwards.

Do ensure that your cells and inverter are correctly matched for DC voltage.

Allright that is not much i see,

How much is 1 unit measured in KW ?

i see a guy in bahtsold, he claims he get around 1500 baht from a 280w panel

Jack

1 unit is one kW/hour, a 280W panel produces 0.28 kW/hour per hour in full sun = 1.12 Baht per hour (@4 Baht per unit)

1500 Baht would need 1339 hours, @ 4 hours per day full sun = 334 days, nearly 1 year.

I'll bet he was quoting 1500 Baht per year saving.

[bankruatsteve]

Never really researched this and just watching the various threads, but now I'm curious...

So, it seems like you all are saying that you can get a solar kit, plug it into an outlet and backfeed your house to whatever extent that provides (and which reduces consumption from the grid?) as well as the grid (turning back the meter) if the house demand is less? How does that work?

And the grid mains are live at the same time?

What happens when the mains power goes off? And why would that be different than a genset?

If I'm the only one that just got confused, delete my post and nevermind.

[Crossy]

What you need is a grid-tie inverter, this is not the same as the normal inverters you see for getting 220V from your car battery.

A grid-tie inverter is connected to the live mains and synchronises itself to those mains allowing it to push energy into the system. This is no different to the actual grid system where a large number of individual generators (power stations) are synchronised together (just rather smaller than a power station, it's called 'micro-generation' for a reason) .

An important feature of grid-tie units is known as 'island protection' whereby the inverter shuts down should the grid go off so you don't try to feed the whole of Thailand from your 200W inverter. This also means that a grid-tie system can not keep your lights on if the power goes off.

If you have a standby genset you will physically switch your home to run from the genset via a transfer switch, the genset and the mains are never connected at the same time.

[bankruatsteve]

So, the "grid tie inverter" is the primary gizmo, yah? Does that work everywhere, even though it may not turn back the meter everywhere? Maybe I will do some research. Or wait - the payback is 40 years or something?

Edited June 22, 2013 by bankruatsteve

[Crossy]

Yes it will work everywhere, just ensure your inverter is the correct voltage for both your mains supply and solar panels.

Payback @4 Baht per unit is about 8-10 years.

[Nakonamath]

Yes it will work everywhere, just ensure your inverter is the correct voltage for both your mains supply and solar panels.

Payback @4 Baht per unit is about 8-10 years.

What im looking at, is a 280W panel is around 8000 and a pure sin tie grid is less than 2000, for 300W,

This is a small system, but notice, a notebook use less than 65W, just to have a figure in head.

For the connection, look at this, this is too f.. simple to f... up. !

But the question is, how many Watt is 1 unit ?

[jbrain]

Yes it will work everywhere, just ensure your inverter is the correct voltage for both your mains supply and solar panels.

Payback @4 Baht per unit is about 8-10 years.

What im looking at, is a 280W panel is around 8000 and a pure sin tie grid is less than 2000, for 300W,

This is a small system, but notice, a notebook use less than 65W, just to have a figure in head.

For the connection, look at this, this is too f.. simple to f... up. !

But the question is, how many Watt is 1 unit ?

1 unit is 1Kw/hour or 1000 watt as Crossy explained already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour

And by the way, I think you better move your panel outside as it will not catch much sun where it is placed in the picture.

Edited June 22, 2013 by jbrain

[Nakonamath]

Yes it will work everywhere, just ensure your inverter is the correct voltage for both your mains supply and solar panels.

Payback @4 Baht per unit is about 8-10 years.

What im looking at, is a 280W panel is around 8000 and a pure sin tie grid is less than 2000, for 300W,

This is a small system, but notice, a notebook use less than 65W, just to have a figure in head.

For the connection, look at this, this is too f.. simple to f... up. !

But the question is, how many Watt is 1 unit ?

1 unit is 1Kw/hour or 1000 watt as Crossy explained already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour

And by the way, I think you better move your panel outside as it will not catch much sun where it is placed in the picture.

but cant it get from my lamps ? just kidding, this was just a picture i got from google.

Jack

[Nakonamath]

1 unit is 1Kw/hour or 1000 watt as Crossy explained already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour

And by the way, I think you better move your panel outside as it will not catch much sun where it is placed in the picture.

So if 1 unit is 1000 watt

And the panel is 280 watt then its basicly little less than 1/3 Unit. if it perform 100% then there maybe some loss in the inverter.

well <expletive deleted>, i will try buy a kit soon, and try it out, post the results.

But ofcourse if a 30 unit reduction in 1 month, is more or less worthless

Jesper

[thunder30101]

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

[Nakonamath]

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

the Poly crystaline, i find at 6500 and mono crystaline around 10.000. but after what i read, the mono crystaline is the one to go for.

However, investment vice, i think it is cheaper to consider what kind of appliances you have and how your turning on and off light/aircon culture is in your home.

to zero our electricity bill, its a 100.000 investment, 3.½ year of usage.

[Crossy]

Amorn Solar have 280W mono panels for 8,500 Baht, 120W for 5,800.

[hansje1980]

Main question has not been answered yet, which shop is a good one and where? Staying in Bkk

Yes you guessed right, also interested in experimenting solar for small stuff, just the "green" idea of it and being a geek, not to reduce my bills

[Crossy]

Amorn Solar have been mentioned several times

http://www.amornsolar.com/

There's one in Zeer Rangsit, probably others detailed on their website.

[jbrain]

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

the Poly crystaline, i find at 6500 and mono crystaline around 10.000. but after what i read, the mono crystaline is the one to go for.

However, investment vice, i think it is cheaper to consider what kind of appliances you have and how your turning on and off light/aircon culture is in your home.

to zero our electricity bill, its a 100.000 investment, 3.½ year of usage.

If 100.000 Baht is equal to 3 1/2 of usage, that means that you have a 3000 Baht monthly electricity bill or approx 650 Kwh a month.

I think it is impossible with a 100.000 Baht investment in solar equipment to produce 650 Kwh a month.

[IMHO]

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

the Poly crystaline, i find at 6500 and mono crystaline around 10.000. but after what i read, the mono crystaline is the one to go for.

However, investment vice, i think it is cheaper to consider what kind of appliances you have and how your turning on and off light/aircon culture is in your home.

to zero our electricity bill, its a 100.000 investment, 3.½ year of usage.

If 100.000 Baht is equal to 3 1/2 of usage, that means that you have a 3000 Baht monthly electricity bill or approx 650 Kwh a month.

I think it is impossible with a 100.000 Baht investment in solar equipment to produce 650 Kwh a month.

Agreed

But if someone works out how to create that much solar electricity for 100K Baht, I'll buy them a beer

[billd766]

My electricity bill averages about 29 units per day over the year.

If 1 panel makes say 250 watts and ONLY 1 unit per day then to reduce my bill to zero then I need to have 30 panels electricity bill.

So 30 times 10,000 means I have to invest about 300,000 baht to have no electricity bill and it will take 10 years to recoup my money at 10,000 baht per panel.

What is the life cycle of a panel?

If it is more that 10 years I make a small profit, less then I make a loss.

Howvever to make sure there is enough power available I would probably need perhaps 35 pushing my costs up another 50,000 baht.

However if I were going to invest that much I would rather disconnect from the grid completely and be solar powered but I would then also need a standby generator as a a backup, just in case.

[Nakonamath]

My electricity bill averages about 29 units per day over the year.

If 1 panel makes say 250 watts and ONLY 1 unit per day then to reduce my bill to zero then I need to have 30 panels electricity bill.

So 30 times 10,000 means I have to invest about 300,000 baht to have no electricity bill and it will take 10 years to recoup my money at 10,000 baht per panel.

What is the life cycle of a panel?

If it is more that 10 years I make a small profit, less then I make a loss.

Howvever to make sure there is enough power available I would probably need perhaps 35 pushing my costs up another 50,000 baht.

However if I were going to invest that much I would rather disconnect from the grid completely and be solar powered but I would then also need a standby generator as a a backup, just in case.

what i read is, 10 year loose 10% and 25 year loose 25% here after it is downhill.

The units are more expensive for Condo owners, but, i think its little difficult to install 30 solar panels on a 40sqm condo :-)

As said before, i will try buy it for the sport,

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

the Poly crystaline, i find at 6500 and mono crystaline around 10.000. but after what i read, the mono crystaline is the one to go for.

However, investment vice, i think it is cheaper to consider what kind of appliances you have and how your turning on and off light/aircon culture is in your home.

to zero our electricity bill, its a 100.000 investment, 3.½ year of usage.

If 100.000 Baht is equal to 3 1/2 of usage, that means that you have a 3000 Baht monthly electricity bill or approx 650 Kwh a month.

I think it is impossible with a 100.000 Baht investment in solar equipment to produce 650 Kwh a month.

You are right, it would be more like 150.000.

Note i am no expert, i open this thread to ask for others advice :-)

Jack

[jbrain]

I think too many people forget efficiency ratings in the different panel types and also inverters. Im betting that 280 watt panel that you are looking at is the one sold here at a cheap price which is a poly crystalline cell which is the most inefficient panel to use for converting sunlight to energy. Thats why quality solar panels (mono crystalline and thin film) and inverters (not cheap chinese) are usually not cost efficient in the long run.

the Poly crystaline, i find at 6500 and mono crystaline around 10.000. but after what i read, the mono crystaline is the one to go for.

However, investment vice, i think it is cheaper to consider what kind of appliances you have and how your turning on and off light/aircon culture is in your home.

to zero our electricity bill, its a 100.000 investment, 3.½ year of usage.

If 100.000 Baht is equal to 3 1/2 of usage, that means that you have a 3000 Baht monthly electricity bill or approx 650 Kwh a month.

I think it is impossible with a 100.000 Baht investment in solar equipment to produce 650 Kwh a month.

You are right, it would be more like 150.000.

Note i am no expert, i open this thread to ask for others advice :-)

Jack

I think even that would be a very optimistic calculation, as +200.000 Baht would be more correct in my opinion. Don't forget that installing 20 Panels, which you would need to produce that amount of electricity, takes a lot of space, cabling, mounting frames, installation etc which all add up to the total cost.

As I've said in earlier threads, solar energy isn't profitable yet.

[thunder30101]

Those 280 watt poly panels at amorn are down to 5900B now, but I still wouldnt buy them (they are a massive size you wont get many on a condo). You also have to consider without a tracker on your panels those watt calculations above are pipe dreams for a days input to your system due to the suns arc running across your panel. If I was going to burn the money for a system I would go for a thin film panel system (less heat build up=more efficient) with a water system behind it to scavenge the heat and feed a solar hot water system, it would be much more expensive but at least you would get some return on your investment.

[Nakonamath]

Too bad :-( we better think about how we use our electricity instead. it is not cheap ! we spend 50% of what my mother inlaw earn in 1 month, on electricity, and we only use 1 aircon in 1 tiny room.

[Nakonamath]

Those 280 watt poly panels at amorn are down to 5900B now, but I still wouldnt buy them (they are a massive size you wont get many on a condo). You also have to consider without a tracker on your panels those watt calculations above are pipe dreams for a days input to your system due to the suns arc running across your panel. If I was going to burn the money for a system I would go for a thin film panel system (less heat build up=more efficient) with a water system behind it to scavenge the heat and feed a solar hot water system, it would be much more expensive but at least you would get some return on your investment.

did you see the 5900 offer in the shop or online, i can only see 8900 online

Jesper

[IMHO]

Too bad :-( we better think about how we use our electricity instead. it is not cheap ! we spend 50% of what my mother inlaw earn in 1 month, on electricity, and we only use 1 aircon in 1 tiny room.

And you spend 2500 Baht/month?

Something isn't adding up..

Are you sure you haven't got a commercial (or temporary builders) meter? They are are charged at ~7 Baht/unit compared to ~4 Baht/unit for a domestic meter. Next suspect would be the hot water heater, and how long it gets used every day. If only a small room, I'm assuming only a small AC unit too. Perhaps the room needs insulation, or the AC unit is faulty/cheap/old?

[jbrain]

Too bad :-( we better think about how we use our electricity instead. it is not cheap ! we spend 50% of what my mother inlaw earn in 1 month, on electricity, and we only use 1 aircon in 1 tiny room.

And you spend 2500 Baht/month?

Something isn't adding up..

Are you sure you haven't got a commercial (or temporary builders) meter? They are are charged at ~7 Baht/unit compared to ~4 Baht/unit for a domestic meter. Next suspect would be the hot water heater, and how long it gets used every day. If only a small room, I'm assuming only a small AC unit too. Perhaps the room needs insulation, or the AC unit is faulty/cheap/old?

That is indeed a lot of money for a single aircon. My previous house was a 1 bedroom with aircon and not insulated of course, and my avarage was 1100 Baht a month.

[Nakonamath]

Too bad :-( we better think about how we use our electricity instead. it is not cheap ! we spend 50% of what my mother inlaw earn in 1 month, on electricity, and we only use 1 aircon in 1 tiny room.

And you spend 2500 Baht/month?

Something isn't adding up..

Are you sure you haven't got a commercial (or temporary builders) meter? They are are charged at ~7 Baht/unit compared to ~4 Baht/unit for a domestic meter. Next suspect would be the hot water heater, and how long it gets used every day. If only a small room, I'm assuming only a small AC unit too. Perhaps the room needs insulation, or the AC unit is faulty/cheap/old?

well yes we have other things here, but the fact is we still use 2500, without the AC its around 1500

waterpump, Light, tv, internet router, fridge and yes water heater, water cooker for, rice cooker, microwave it add up

[Nakonamath]

Too bad :-( we better think about how we use our electricity instead. it is not cheap ! we spend 50% of what my mother inlaw earn in 1 month, on electricity, and we only use 1 aircon in 1 tiny room.

And you spend 2500 Baht/month?

Something isn't adding up..

Are you sure you haven't got a commercial (or temporary builders) meter? They are are charged at ~7 Baht/unit compared to ~4 Baht/unit for a domestic meter. Next suspect would be the hot water heater, and how long it gets used every day. If only a small room, I'm assuming only a small AC unit too. Perhaps the room needs insulation, or the AC unit is faulty/cheap/old?

That is indeed a lot of money for a single aircon. My previous house was a 1 bedroom with aircon and not insulated of course, and my avarage was 1100 Baht a month.

Hmm that is cheaper i pay 2500 for 570 units, so it is indeed around 4baht.

i should buy a electric measure gauge

[thunder30101]

Dont even bother with thai store websites, they are never updated. Yes the panel I saw for 5900 was in the store. I think they are just trying to dump the turds on someone at any price. The same size mono panel was 8900. The problem again is I question at those prices the quality of the silicon in them for longevity and efficiency. Its good the chinese have dropped the prices of panels so dramatically in the last few years but they have also sacrificed quality for mass produced low cost items like everything they build. Again you have to justify the cost of your system somehow, just saying I want to be green doesnt cut it as your cost estimates for what you want will buy a hell of alot of electricity. And for you wishful thing greenies you should research the pollution created making these so called green technologies before cutting down other power supplies.