Houses and kitchens

[LemonLady]

Hope this is the right place to post my questions.

I'm moving to Chiang Mai in August for a year.

I'd like to be able to cook at home but I find many houses do not have extractor fans and also many don't have air conditioning in all rooms.

So I was wondering

* If I'm allowed, what would it cost (baht) to install an extractor?

* What does it cost to install air conditioning in 1 room?

* Any air conditioning that you recommend? I dont' want a noisy one if less noisy exists ;-)

If you know anything about kitchens or air conditioning that you think is good to know, do tell!

And also, what do you think one should concider before choosing house? Anything you would have liked to know before you rented yours?

[worgeordie]

First thing to consider is neighborhood,Location,number of dogs running about the sois,

Easier and cheaper to find a house with all you require already installed,there are no shortage

of houses for rent,so look around and don't rush into renting a place,consider carefully as

you will have to live there for a year.

Regards Worgeordie

[market trader]

As you know Thailand is a very hot country. Now if you have a house do you really want to cook inside and raise the already high temperature of the kitchen. Maybe you could consider doing what most Thais and many farangs do. Cook outside.

Depending on the BTU's of the air conditioner you could expect to pay between 17,000 and 25,000 bahts installed. This would be for an average sized room. As to what brand of air conditioner is best. You will get 100 different answers to that question. You can go for the cheapest or you can go for the most expensive. The choice is yours to make.

[elektrified]

Installing additional air conditioners is no problem at all. Most people who rent homes install additional A/C units and just take them with them when they move, sell them, etc.

But installing an extractor fan in a rental property is a rather big job abs you would have to put a hole in the ceiling/wall to vent out the smoke and then of course additional venting work on the roof or wall. Then when you leave you could only leave it behind as removing it would be a bit of work and it probably would not be of much resale value, if any. Why bother? Also the landlord may not appreciate or approve of such a thing.

As mentioned above, we cook with gas outside also. We have a set-up on on the back enclosed patio right next to the kitchen so even if it's raining, no problem and it doesn't stink up the house with the odor of garlic, chiles, etc. A gas stove will heat up the kitchen like an oven! If you insist on renting a place with an extractor fan and A/C already in the kitchen, it will probably be a rental offered by a farang for at least an additional 6K THB per month premium for this convenience. Even my wealthiest Thai friends with large homes don't have extractor fans or A/C units in the kitchen as they have people who do the cooking for them outside.

[LemonLady]

Thank you all, that was very helpful.

If you can link to pictures on the internet that shows ways an outdoor kitchen might look, it would be great. Or you might have pictures of your own kitchen you could share?

I don't really like to cook with gas. Is there other options?

And very important: Does anyone have suggestions to what kind of temporary place I should look for while I look at houses, and where I could find one? I have 2 cats with me, so guess it's not that easy to just move into a hotel. It should also be very economical.

How much time did you spend finding the right house/apartment for you?

Edited June 23, 2013 by LemonLady

[market trader]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

[LemonLady]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

What ever it this thread do you deem "paranoid"? There's nothing "paranoid" about looking into things like Dengue fever. It's like getting vaccinations before traveling - it's generally not concidered "paranoid".

I don't even want to comment on your other nonsense. You seem like a very judgemental, strange person.

[shepsel]

If I were you I would rent a serviced apartment in the centre of town for a month, then go out and explore the different neighbourhoods to see if you find something you like. You didn't mention if you will be having a car or motorcycle while you are here, so if you don't plan to get one--then you best choice would be in the downtown area where there are plenty of song-taews to take you where ever you want to go. In the suburbs it is more difficult without transportation and you would have to get some names of drivers to take you around when you want to go out.

Thank you all, that was very helpful.

If you can link to pictures on the internet that shows ways an outdoor kitchen might look, it would be great. Or you might have pictures of your own kitchen you could share?

I don't really like to cook with gas. Is there other options?

And very important: Does anyone have suggestions to what kind of temporary place I should look for while I look at houses, and where I could find one? I have 2 cats with me, so guess it's not that easy to just move into a hotel. It should also be very economical.

How much time did you spend finding the right house/apartment for you?

[kaptainrob]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

Thailand is far from being a 3rd World country. That is a ridiculous statement.

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

Edited June 24, 2013 by kaptainrob

[hml367]

Slightly off the OP, but since people want to argue about "3rd World" - perhaps referring to Thailand, or any other country for that matter, as "Third World" today is not worth doing:

Worlds within the World?

The First, the Second, and the Third World.
When people talk about the poorest countries of the world, they often refer to them with the general term Third World, and they think everybody knows what they are talking about. But when you ask them if there is a Third World, what about a Second or a First World, you almost always get an evasive answer. Other people even try to use the terms as a ranking scheme for the state of development of countries, with the First world on top, followed by the Second world and so on, that's perfect - nonsense.

To close the gap of information you will find here explanations of the terms.

The use of the terms First, the Second, and the Third World is a rough, and it's safe to say, outdated model of the geopolitical world from the time of the cold war.
There is no official definition of the first, second, and the third world. Below OWNO's explanation of the terms.

Four Worlds
After World War II the world split into two large geopolitical blocs and spheres of influence with contrary views on government and the politically correct society:
1 - The bloc of democratic-industrial countries within the American influence sphere, the "First World".
2 - The Eastern bloc of the communist-socialist states, the "Second World".
3 - The remaining three-quarters of the world's population, states not aligned with either bloc were regarded as the "Third World."
4 - The term "Fourth World", coined in the early 1970s by Shuswap Chief George Manuel, refers to widely unknown nations (cultural entities) of indigenous peoples, "First Nations" living within or across national state boundaries.

First there was the three worlds model
The origin of the terminology is unclear. In 1952 Alfred Sauvy, a French demographer, wrote an article in the French magazine L'Observateur which ended by comparing the Third World with the Third Estate: "ce Tiers Monde ignoré, exploité, méprisé comme le Tiers État" (this ignored Third World, exploited, scorned like the Third Estate). Other sources claim that Charles de Gaulle coined the term Third World, maybe de Gaulle only has quoted Sauvy. However...

__ Definitions

The term "First World" refers to so called developed, capitalist, industrial countries, roughly, a bloc of countries aligned with the United States after World War II, with more or less common political and economic interests: North America, Western Europe, Japan and Australia.

Countries of the "First World"



"Second World" refers to the former communist-socialist, industrial states, (formerly the Eastern bloc, the territory and sphere of influence of the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic) today: Russia, Eastern Europe (e.g., Poland) and some of the Turk States (e.g., Kazakhstan) as well as China.

Countries of the "Second World"



"Third World" are all the other countries, today often used to roughly describe the developing countries of Africa, Asia and Latin America.
The term Third World includes as well capitalist (e.g., Venezuela) and communist (e.g., North Korea) countries, as very rich (e.g., Saudi Arabia) and very poor (e.g., Mali) countries.


Countries of the "Third World"
Third World Countries classified by various indices: their Political Rights and Civil Liberties, the Gross National Income (GNI) and Poverty of countries, the Human Development of countries (HDI), and the Freedom of Information within a country.


What makes a nation third world?
Despite everevolving definitions, the concept of the third world serves to identify countries that suffer from high infant mortality, low economic development, high levels of poverty, low utilization of natural resources, and heavy dependence on industrialized nations. These are the developing and technologically less advanced nations of Asia, Africa, Oceania, and Latin America. Third world nations tend to have economies dependent on the developed countries and are generally characterized as poor with unstable governments and having high rates of population growth, illiteracy, and disease. A key factor is the lack of a middle class — with impoverished millions in a vast lower economic class and a very small elite upper class controlling the country's wealth and resources. Most third world nations also have a very large foreign debt.
(What makes a nation third world? from Encyclopedia of World Geography)


The term "Fourth World" first came into use in 1974 with the publication of Shuswap Chief George Manuel's: The fourth world : an Indian reality (amazon link to the book), the term refers to nations (cultural entities, ethnic groups) of indigenous peoples living within or across state boundaries (nation states).

Edited June 24, 2013 by hml367

[CMKiwi]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

Thailand is far from being a 3rd World country. That is a ridiculous statement.

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

Geez Rob you did well with that place and all for only 10K a month. Bet they are few and far between, normally 10k will get you a 48sqm condo/studio somewhere. Good shopping!

[kaptainrob]

^ As I said, probably equal to ~ 15k rentals in our area. We were happy to find it and landlord discounted from 12k p/m as she wanted good (farang/Thai) tenant.

Add another 3k per month for

TrueVisions

3BB internet

Security/Water

Power & LPG

[LemonLady]

If I were you I would rent a serviced apartment in the centre of town for a month, then go out and explore the different neighbourhoods to see if you find something you like. You didn't mention if you will be having a car or motorcycle while you are here, so if you don't plan to get one--then you best choice would be in the downtown area where there are plenty of song-taews to take you where ever you want to go. In the suburbs it is more difficult without transportation and you would have to get some names of drivers to take you around when you want to go out.

Thank you all, that was very helpful.

If you can link to pictures on the internet that shows ways an outdoor kitchen might look, it would be great. Or you might have pictures of your own kitchen you could share?

I don't really like to cook with gas. Is there other options?

And very important: Does anyone have suggestions to what kind of temporary place I should look for while I look at houses, and where I could find one? I have 2 cats with me, so guess it's not that easy to just move into a hotel. It should also be very economical.

How much time did you spend finding the right house/apartment for you?

A serviced apartment sounds perfect.

I might want a scooter. Something like this would be great:

http://www.newscoote...cooter-330.html

http://www.fantom-xp...P3_Scooter.html (4 wheels would be awesome indeed ;-))

http://speedsyndicat...tor_scooter.jpg (electric scooter)

[WinnieTheKhwai]

* As a person who rents out a house myself, I would welcome small improvements of the type mentioned. I could see an arrangement where the rent is lowered / waved for a month due to small improvements taking place to the house.

* Yes, extractor fans knock a hole in the wall. But it greatly improves the kitchen. By the way, installing an air conditioner ALSO knocks a hole in a wall. Smaller, but still something that would need to be patched up when the unit is removed. When I rented a house myself, this is exactly what I did.

* Cooking doesn't warm up the house much. Most kitchens have doors anyway. Main reason Thai kitchens are traditionally outside is due to strong smelling food, and just traditional reasons; not too long ago cooking involved burning wood and charcoal, which is something you don't want to do in the house. And the water supply came from big jars outside, not city water plumbed all through the house and into the kitchen. And even more recently than that, adding a kitchen was a bit of an after-thought, just like many people in apartments cook on the balcony. The (older) house I rent out didn't even have a water supply (nor drain) for a kitchen anywhere inside, so some fairly major plumbing needed to be done.

* Many bigger houses including my own actually have two kitchens. A fancy looking 'Western kitchen' where no major cooking happens other than microwaving something and making some breakfast sandwiches, or to serve as a place for the womenfolk to hang and gossip. And then a 'Thai' outside kitchen used by the maids / cooking staff. The 'Thai' kitchen may or may not be technically outside, it could also be located in the staff annexe, separated from the family area, along with staff quarters and staff bathroom. The staff annexe also needs it's own entrance of course, so you don't run into staff all the time unless they're actually cleaning/working on something.

* Mitsubishi air conditioners rule.

Edited June 25, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh, and welcome to Thaivisa. Where asking about houses and kitchens results in replies calling you paranoid, and accusing Thailand of being Third World and expressing doubt as to you having got what it takes to come over in the first place, all in the very same fiiiine reply.

(Wouldn't have it any other way. We're all mad here, said the Cheshire buffalo, grinning ear to ear.)

Edited June 25, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[CMKiwi]

Oh, and welcome to Thaivisa. Where asking about houses and kitchens results in replies calling you paranoid, and accusing Thailand of being Third World and expressing doubt as to you having got what it takes to come over in the first place, all in the very same fiiiine reply.

(Wouldn't have it any other way. We're all mad here, said the Cheshire buffalo, grinning ear to ear.)

Great reply WTK, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. Im still chuckling away inside

[NancyL]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

Thailand is far from being a 3rd World country. That is a ridiculous statement.

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

This may look like a great kitchen, but note how the lower counters are mounted on the floor -- there is no place for your toes. Also, I suspect the counter height is designed for Thai-sized people. Hubby and I rented a condo with a similar kitchen and (with the owners permission) paid a contractor to "raise" the counters four inches onto recessed pedestals. This gave us space for our toes and also raised the height to our level. The landlord (and English man) like it so much, that he had his kitchen modified.

Note how there's no proper "oven" in this kitchen. For some reason this drives new arrivals nuts. They want something large enough to handle the Thanksgiving turkey(and side dishes) built-in under-counter. OK -- order your T-day Butterball from Rim Ping, already cooked, and learn the wonders of a small convection oven. Besides, as one poster said, you don't really want to "bake" food for an hour or more in this climate. I've discovered many creative ways to use the rice cooker and sukiyaki pot to prepare meals that don't cook for very long, don't use much electricity and don't generate much heat in the kitchen.

(Incidentally, the OP is right about wanting an extractor hood. Fortunately, our kitchen extractor in the condo vents into the bathroom, where another exhaust fan sucks the fumes into a duct that serves this entire portion of the building.)

Edited June 25, 2013 by NancyL

[LemonLady]

Oh, and welcome to Thaivisa. Where asking about houses and kitchens results in replies calling you paranoid, and accusing Thailand of being Third World and expressing doubt as to you having got what it takes to come over in the first place, all in the very same fiiiine reply.

(Wouldn't have it any other way. We're all mad here, said the Cheshire buffalo, grinning ear to ear.)

Haha

And thank you for your great inside knowledge :-)

[mascarakatze]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

Thailand is far from being a 3rd World country. That is a ridiculous statement.

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

very nice 50's style kitchenette which they threw together in 2-3 hours in rooming houses

[market trader]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

Thailand is far from being a 3rd World country. That is a ridiculous statement.

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

" Thailand is far from being a 3rd world country. That is a ridiculous statement". May I suggest that you google Thailand 3rd world country and read many of the articles. I believe you will find that Thailand is considered to be a 3rd world country.

[market trader]

You can buy counter top electric burners here. But reading your post here and what you said on the dengue fever thread, you appear to be a very paranoid person. Thailand is still a 3rd world country so you have to expect that most things will be very different from where you currently live. Have you ever visited this country to get a feel for if you will like it or not?

What ever it this thread do you deem "paranoid"? There's nothing "paranoid" about looking into things like Dengue fever. It's like getting vaccinations before traveling - it's generally not concidered "paranoid".

I don't even want to comment on your other nonsense. You seem like a very judgemental, strange person.

I did not suggest that you were paranoid because of your looking into dengue fever. It was more to do with your statement about not liking to cook with gas. As I have obviously offended you I would like to apologize publicly for my statement

[market trader]

Oh, and welcome to Thaivisa. Where asking about houses and kitchens results in replies calling you paranoid, and accusing Thailand of being Third World and expressing doubt as to you having got what it takes to come over in the first place, all in the very same fiiiine reply.

(Wouldn't have it any other way. We're all mad here, said the Cheshire buffalo, grinning ear to ear.)

Yes I am a real looney tunes. But heck we can't all be perfect.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

@ the OP. Plenty of houses in CM have western-style kitchens. eg: Siwalee/Land & House/Urbana moobans - some better than others and most with extraction fans or rangehood.

We found a nice 4 y/o 2-bed/2-bath rental house on 400 sq/m for 10k/month in a quiet, leafy mooban just 5 mins from Airport and have a 3m x 3.6m Western kitchen. Similar rental homes in our area are ~ 15k average price and fully furnished.

Wall/glass mount extraction fans cost ~ 1,000 baht + install. 9k BTU a/c units from ~14,000 baht installed.

Urbana2 rental townhouse might suit short-term whilst looking around for something better.

very nice 50's style kitchenette which they threw together in 2-3 hours in rooming houses

^ That is actually fairly spendy, as the wooden cupboards are actually wooden cupboards all around below the counter top. And yes, the countertop is 10cm too low. What happens a lot is building everything below the countertop in bricks and cement, and adding just wooden cupboard-fronts.

Then you get something looking like this:

" Thailand is far from being a 3rd world country. That is a ridiculous statement". May I suggest that you google Thailand 3rd world country and read many of the articles. I believe you will find that Thailand is considered to be a 3rd world country.

Edited June 26, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[kaptainrob]

Winnie is spot on, counter-top is only 800mm from floor. Recommended height range is 850 to 1050 with 900 the usual Western standard. I guess this one was designed for Thai's Cupboards are correspondingly 100mm too low and I'm forever cursing the rangehood!

It was obviously a custom-made solid timber, with glass inlays ... not to our personal taste but very serviceable and with heaps of adjustable shelving. Concrete-formed cabinets are short on storage and difficult to access.

A 100mm high recessed kick-board would be desirable but I can assure lemonlady that we've never found the lack thereof, a problem.

[mascarakatze]

i rent this house with this kitchen for 11,000