Buying a house in the wife's name but she's not working - advice request please

[spacebass]

The correct title to this thread should include "with mortgage".

[lockman]

I have to agree with everyone saying rent. People buying homes beyond their means and banks lending stupidly (but forced to in USA) caused the financial mess. Your going to be working OUTSIDE of Thailand for periods of time. Far better to rent your spouse & children a place, go ahead and work out of country and send support money home, and save money in a separate account. Once you have sufficient funds to buy outright, then do so. Reason is, what if something totally unexpected happens to either of you. If you own, the deed transfers to your children, but what if it was you becoming suddenly unable to work. Think about that as well. I leved for many years without a house, and bought one when I was absolutely I would always be able to keep that, and when we moved here, we didn't until we knew we could buy the ground and build on that and completely pay for it. And I wanted a garage, but didn't positively need that, only after a couple years of saving money on our retirement income did we build that, from money in the bank.

[RubberBroke]

Hi,

Like other respondents I'd suggest you rent out a place to live.

If you would like to invest in your childrens future I would suggest that you find a condominium with a long term tenant already in place and buy that with a loan from the bank in your own name only.

This will protect your property from being sold off or misused by anyone else and the income from the rental can be used for the rental of a house or towards paying off a bank loan.

Also here's something that I came across:

Inheritance order following Thai law:

1. descendants

2. parents

3. brothers and sisters of full blood

4. brothers and sisters of half blood

5. grandparents

6. uncles and aunts

7. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir, subject to the special provisions of Section 1635 Civil and Commercial Code.

As a precaution against your untimely demise I would suggest that you speak to a lawyer about #7 above.

Best of luck.

[Just1Voice]

Ok, 6 yrs ago me and wife wanted to buy a house, but ran into problems of her credit basically non-existant, and I hadn't been in LOS long enough to really establish any type of bank account history. Fortunately, my wife and her sister knew the owners of a small, privately owned moo ban which, at the time, only had about 35 houses completed, and only about half of them actually sold.

The people who owned it actually came up with the following: On Paper, they would "hire" my wife's 24 yr old son, and "pay" him a salary of 35,000 baht a month. This "salary" would go into an account for which they would keep the bank book so that no one else would have access. Each month they would deposit the money into the bank. The money they "paid" him was actually what I was giving them each month, so there was no money out of their pockets. When the balance in the account reached 20% of the purchase price, papers were drawn up to show that he was making a "down payment" for that amount, and we had no problem getting normal bank financing through Bangkok Bank for a 12 year mortgage. Yes, the payments are somewhat stiff, but I didn't want to stretch it out any longer than necessary. Each month the bank does an automatic withdrawal from an account we have set up just for that, and then my wife will go in each month and pay an additional 3-4k on the principle. The house will be paid off in less than 7 years. Oh, and once the deal was worked out on paper, and I'd made the first payment of 35k, we were allowed to go ahead and move into the house.

So, yes, as noted by others here, there are various "options". You just have to find the one that works best for you.

[mikemac]

After reading all the posts in this thread I have made up my mind, I am definitely going to buy a house for my wife and three kids, two boys 7 and 11 and another due in September. Be damned if I am going to leave them a rented house when I go, and I don't really care if I have to work up til the day I die to pay for it, I never planned on retiring anyway. Have to feel sorry for the foreigners who come to live in Thailand and are so miserable and insecure worrying about money. Enjoy your life and look after your wife and kids I say.

Thanks to davidkas, post #24, for his positive view

[aussiandrew]

Gents some real sound advise here.

Many thanks

[Soutpeel]

I bought a condo last November for 800k, borrowed 950k to cover costs and a bit of deco. We tried many banks with only SCB willing to take a chance on a farang. The income thresh hold is 50k a month. The banks don't want to lend to foreigners! We heard every excuse going to knock us back with many saying about it's illegal to lend to a foreigner so we had to have my wife's name as owner and me paying the morgage. My wife is in the same position as yours, gave up work to look after our son. The 950k was the limit the bank were willing to risk on a foriegn husband / Thai wife combination. We wanted a house but every moo ban wanted either cash 100% or minimum 30% deposit on a high salary for this combination.

Err the banks dont want to lend to foreigners who have no credit history in Thailand, and rightly so... get some decent credit history and the game changes, I know this a fact.

I co-signed on a THB 3.0 million mortgage for the GF at the time, who is now the wife, who wasnt working at the time, mortgage has always been on time for last 8 years and SCB have enquired whether I want a loan for a condo and would be prepared to go up to THB 10 million

As to the illegality point, yes it would be "illegal" to grant a mortgage to a farang in their own name on a property were there is land involved, as its illegal for a farang to own land..so in some respects what they are saying is 100% correct

The 950k was the limit the bank were willing to risk on a foriegn husband / Thai wife combination

This is not based on being a foreign husband/Thai wife combination...this is based on your risk profile as regards your ability to pay, and your stated income....What your suggesting is completely incorrect as regards SCB...

I have been through the process and My Mrs was given THB 3.0 million mortage (100% of purchase price) based on my stated Thai income at the time and we werent even married at the time

[marell]

After reading all the posts in this thread I have made up my mind, I am definitely going to buy a house for my wife and three kids, two boys 7 and 11 and another due in September. Be damned if I am going to leave them a rented house when I go, and I don't really care if I have to work up til the day I die to pay for it, I never planned on retiring anyway. Have to feel sorry for the foreigners who come to live in Thailand and are so miserable and insecure worrying about money. Enjoy your life and look after your wife and kids I say.

Thanks to davidkas, post #24, for his positive view

Good luck. Hope it all works out.

[gtm2k]

1. Am in the same boat as yours, with exception to the fact that my wife (Even though non-working) is listed as one of the directors in the company.

2. Your idea of putting cash in / out in here account is a good one - in my case - banks wanted to see sources of income and cash flow in statements

3. If you are getting paid well - the mortgage could be provided by the bank. But you must understand that the mechanism in this situation would mean that you own the house (not the land) and hence the mortgage would be a value of the house. Your missus would be the owner of the land (on which the house is built).

The mooban where we have bought the house is still under construction - the sales woman insists that the chanote will have both our names. I actually find that unlikely ( could be wrong though !) - but i am inclined to believe that the arrangement (paperwork) would be like point # 3 above.

Hope this helps !

[bkk_mike]

You can act as guarantor if you have the income to do so.

How willing the bank will be to do this will depend on:

1. How long you've been together in Thailand. (I had major problems getting a mortgage back when we moved here in 2001 - banks wouldn't touch us - ended up getting one from AIA. That house is now paid off, but I got mortgages on a couple of rental places with a lot less hassle, and significantly less deposit in the last few years.)

First mortgage, we literally had to have the rental income from my flat in London treated as my wife's income as they wouldn't take me as guarantor. (This is back in the day when you needed a work permit to open a bank account, and I've never been employed in Thailand).

2. Income doesn't need to be Thai income (They will discount offshore income by 15% normally when working out how much you can borrow), so long as it's a stable income source. I work for a big company in Hong Kong with offices around the world, so it might be a lot harder if you're working for a company that the bank hasn't heard of.

3. The banks that are desperate to lend to Thais usually won't touch foreigners with a bargepole. i.e. Original mortgage was with AIA, which isn't even a bank, and the last two have been with UOB, which is Singapore-based. This is despite my wife actually banking with Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank. For UOB, it may have helped that my corporate credit card issued to me in HK is a UOB card, so they had an extra check that I was who I said I was, and worked where I said I worked...

Just remember that Thailand is not the same as the US/Europe.

New houses sell for a lot more than used ones (seems to be an Asian thing, as that's true of Japan and China also), so only buy a house if you're intending to still be living there in 10-20 years, and on the understanding that the property market doesn't work in anything like the same way as it does in developed countries. (Properties can sit unoccupied for years with a for sale sign on them, and estate agents here generally do nothing other than put your property on their website. The only exception to this rule appears to be if you have a flat on a high floor in a building in Bangkok that's a 3 minute walk from the Skytrain. One of our two rental flats satisfies this rule, and we consistently get offers on it even though it's not for sale.)

[BusyBee123]

I was in the same position and when my girlfriend went to the bank to see about getting a mortgage for 75% of the value of the 3m house, they were happy to do that as long as I left a further 150k as a surety in case of default...

she did have some money going through her account but peanuts really considering the size of the mortgage. The size of your deposit will be key to purchasing the house as it will reduce their risk.

Good luck

[meatboy]

After reading all the posts in this thread I have made up my mind, I am definitely going to buy a house for my wife and three kids, two boys 7 and 11 and another due in September. Be damned if I am going to leave them a rented house when I go, and I don't really care if I have to work up til the day I die to pay for it, I never planned on retiring anyway. Have to feel sorry for the foreigners who come to live in Thailand and are so miserable and insecure worrying about money. Enjoy your life and look after your wife and kids I say.

Thanks to davidkas, post #24, for his positive view

what about the bike,the car,living exsp,her family,the sick buffalo it will go on and on.this is one dam place you cant live on peanuts,30yrs i have experiance of thailand and its i want culture i would not commit to anything untill i and the wf.had more than enough money.just take a step or two backwards,why not rent untill there is enough in the pot to have your own place,if you havent got the money now its goner be uphill all the way,and you might end up the same as"JACK AND JILL"

[CWMcMurray]

I understand why many mention to rent only and felt the same for many years...

But if your life and income are stable an the difference in cost between renting and mortgage payment is slight... Then why not buy?

There are many in this position, so may make sense for them to buy.

Of course if you are unsure about staying in Thailand or about your marital situation or our job... Then agree may not be the best time for you to buy

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[NCFC]

After reading all the posts in this thread I have made up my mind, I am definitely going to buy a house for my wife and three kids, two boys 7 and 11 and another due in September. Be damned if I am going to leave them a rented house when I go, and I don't really care if I have to work up til the day I die to pay for it, I never planned on retiring anyway. Have to feel sorry for the foreigners who come to live in Thailand and are so miserable and insecure worrying about money. Enjoy your life and look after your wife and kids I say.

Thanks to davidkas, post #24, for his positive view

If something should happen to you before the house is fully paid up, then you are leaving your wife a house she cannot afford to keep up and so she will probably have to sell it anyway.

Hopefully you will have a long and happy life together, and if you rent now you can put aside some cash on a regular basis in savings so that your wife will have a financial pot to look forward to.

Try to set the emotional part to one side and consider the best options rationally. Personally, I wouldn't want to lumber myself with a whole load of debt which will take several years to pay off. It's not being miserable but being prudent.

Any way, whatever you decide to do, best of luck.

[CWMcMurray]

After reading all the posts in this thread I have made up my mind, I am definitely going to buy a house for my wife and three kids, two boys 7 and 11 and another due in September. Be damned if I am going to leave them a rented house when I go, and I don't really care if I have to work up til the day I die to pay for it, I never planned on retiring anyway. Have to feel sorry for the foreigners who come to live in Thailand and are so miserable and insecure worrying about money. Enjoy your life and look after your wife and kids I say.

Thanks to davidkas, post #24, for his positive view

If something should happen to you before the house is fully paid up, then you are leaving your wife a house she cannot afford to keep up and so she will probably have to sell it anyway.

This is what insurance is for... It is a requirement that person taking the mortgage must take out an insurance policy to pay off the mortgage in case of death , but he can also take out another policy in his name as well

On a 30 year mortgage of over 3 mil, it only ends up being an extra few hundred baht a month on the mortgage payment

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[tango]

^ "It is a requirement that person taking the mortgage must take out an insurance policy to pay off the mortgage in case of death , but he can also take out another policy in his name as well"

Indeed, the farang paying for the house must have life insurance too, otherwise everyone including the bank loses out should he die. Mortgage life insurance on the wife alone does not cater to all eventualities.

Can the farang take out life insurance for the mortgage with the same bank, or where?

Cheers

Edited June 26, 2013 by tango

[CWMcMurray]

When we bought our house, the bank required my wife to buy the insurance in her name as the mortgage was in he name

Even though I co-signed the loan and was the major bread winner in the family, they did not have any requirement for insurance in my name

But to be safe an protect my wife in case something were to happen to me, I wanted it and specifically asked the bank for another policy for me...

They then checked with their insurance carrier and advised the premium amount and advise that the premium costs could be added into the total loan amount as long as you are using their insurance carrier.

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[bkk_mike]

Rent! Rent!! Rent!!! Rent!!!! Rent!!!!! Rent!!!!!!

I haven't read all the thread, but I'd be renting. if you don't have the cash, then don't get mixed up with borrowing via a convoluted path that will likely leave you with nothing in the event of a bust up.

Additional to that, you don't have any worries about falling property values, rising interest rates, greedy relatives, or you being worth more dead than alive.

If you do have the money, and for whatever reason feel you MUST buy, lend it to your partner (paperwork first), secure it with a water tight loan agreement, and a mortgage for far in excess of the market price of the house, firstly to allow for inflation that would not require a new agreement for many years, and secondly, prevent further loans being taken out against the property.

Sam, having been divorced and donated a massive amount to my ex (my income exceeded hers by a factor of 6 to 1 but she got 50%!!) I would treat any woman here exactly that way, along with a prenuptial agreement that trussed her up so tight she wouldn't be able to touch anything of mine. If she wasn't happy with that, I wouldn't be happy with her.

I can't get rid of the treble line spacing, something to do with the 36 point font in the first line.

Why would you get a pre-nup in Thailand if you live here?

If you divorce in Thailand, there is no alimony. (Child Support is a different matter of course).

i.e. If there's no children involved, after dealing with the distribution of assets acquired during the marriage (anything owned prior to marriage simply belongs to the person that owned it originally), there is no ongoing payment to the former spouse, regardless of how long you were married.

[F4UCorsair]

bkk_mike said, "Why would you get a pre-nup in Thailand if you live here?

If you divorce in Thailand, there is no alimony. (Child Support is a different matter of course).

i.e. If there's no children involved, after dealing with the distribution of assets acquired during the marriage (anything owned prior to marriage simply belongs to the person that owned it originally), there is no ongoing payment to the former spouse, regardless of how long you were married."

That's exactly why a prenup would be required Mike, so that she can't get her hands on whatever the man contributes during the marriage, assuming that it would be disproportionately in his favor, as it would almost certainly be via mortgage payments, and due to relative imbalance in incomes.

It may be, of course, that as in Australia, prenups can be set aside by the court. The Australian court does give weight to prenups, but a judge can find against either party, as I've recently established. They can be binding, unless the judge finds otherwise, is a summary of how it works.

It's no surprise that the law is a mess in that area, because the law is created by politicians, and here in Australia, politicians are predominantly former (failed) lawyers!! Why would a decent lawyer go into politics where a back bencher is paid (as opposed to 'earns') about $200,000 pa, the Prime Minister $500,000, when in private practice a half decent lawyer can earn over a million $$??

Edited June 28, 2013 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

You'd possibly have a prenup agreement because it's recommended by a law firm? I know they're drumming up business, but it probably is a good idea.

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-dowry.php

which, says, in part

Marriage in Thailand can be the best experience you will ever have, but it would be best to inform yourself as much as possible about all its traditions and requirements. It would be best to engage the services of a reputable Thai law firm who can assist you with Marriage Registration in Thailand and even drafting a Prenuptial Agreement

[Soutpeel]

Why would a decent lawyer go into politics where a back bencher is paid (as opposed to 'earns') about $200,000 pa, the Prime Minister $500,000, when in private practice a half decent lawyer can earn over a million $$??

Because they want to contribute/do good for society ?.... ...your only quoting their official salaries, politics buys power and influence even after said politian is no longer in the biz, you will find most end up as directors/ on the boards of various companies earning big bucks