Mercedes Benz purchase in Bangkok - Where are they manufactured?

[wailee]

I have just visited the Benz showroom on Rama IV Road (corner of Sathorn Road) to discuss a potential and more-or-less immediate purchase. I had been under the impression that Benz was imported from Germany, therefore accounting for the significant import tax. The range starts at 1,890,000 for what is essentially a relatively low-specification and unappealing vehicle - the A-class - with front-wheel-drive and a dreadful front-wheel placement, where the wheels are far closer to the A-pillar of the doors, than to the front of the valance. It seems to be a classic Japanese front-drive configuration, in which they don't seem to be able to locate the front wheels in the right place, perhaps inhibited by the transverse engine - I don't know, but my best theory.

The sales staff were helpful but I was disappointed that they don't offer insurance into the price and also that Satellite Navigation isn't provided as standard on such a premium car. In fact there isn't very much provided as standard anyway. They also didn't volunteer a test drive. Is that normal here?

Anyway, after looking at the A-class, it left me feeling that the C-class is the only suitable option and that starts at 2,250,000 - again without satellite navigation. The driving position is very low, it seemed.

I'm currently trying to reconcile the prices, given the premise that Thai-manufactured saloon cars represent better value than imports. Can anyone therefore confirm please, if Benz is indeed manufactured in Thailand or not, because having read this wikipedia article below, it appears that Mercedes Benz manufacture is carried out by the Thonburi Group.

"Thailand - assembly of C, E and S class vehicles by the Thonburi Group"

... from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz

If Benz is manufactured here, with such a low specification on the A-class and C-class, I can't help thinking that it is a case of profiteering rather than offering value for money. I've attached the price list, as it doesn't indicate anything to suggest it is copyright. Please delete it if otherwise.

I also considered BMW but notice that the web site is poor by anyone's standards, making me wonder if BMW is serious at all about the Thai market.

[TobiasML]

It is correct Mercedes is assembled in Thailand. A few years back it was done by Thonburi. Not sure if they still do it. Their assembly line was in Bangkok. According to my understanding the taxes for imported luxury cars are somewhere around 320% but for assembled cars they are "only" about 120%. This might be different and the numbers are wrong and someone else can explain in more details.

Therefore the prices, even assembled in Thailand, are significantly higher then locally produced cars.

I am sure that some other members can explain that in more detail as they are more involved with duties and taxes for imports than myself.

[Businessman]

I believe you need to examine at the model level. Not all models are made in Thailand some are and others are imported. I once shopped for a benz the dealership treated us very poorly. Did not ask what we needed. I asked about the then new E class model and told that they didn't have any, not a word about when they would get some in stock. The sales guy seemed genuinely disinterested. I left feeling a bit disappointed. I went straight to millennium auto BMW dealer. The difference was night and day. They didn't crowd me when I was browsing. When I glanced over at sales they arrived with prices and all information. They served me coffee. They were happy to negotiate price. In the wnd I bought BMW.

As far as getting bare bones luxury cars for inflated prices you've come to the right country. I believe this is to keep prices affordable due to huge tax barriers. And to keep local assembled models in line with the imports. And to gouge gouge gouge. If you want better value and all the bells and whistles you simply cannot beat the top model Japanese cars.

sent from my mobile

Edited June 26, 2013 by Businessman

[Loptr]

From the price sheet the OP posted, IMO, anyone paying 15 million baht for a SL 500 needs to have their head examined. Yes, they are fine automobiles, but not 15 million baht worth. That's close to $500,000 USD.

[justben]

OP, the tax on imports is graduated by engine volume. Less for 2000cc or less and the full 318% or 328% for 2000cc+. Not sure about the price difference with import and domestic assembly, sorry. If I remember correctly there can be 3 tax graduations.

[culicine]

I believe you need to examine at the model level. Not all models are made in Thailand some are and others are imported. I once shopped for a benz the dealership treated us very poorly. Did not ask what we needed. I asked about the then new E class model and told that they didn't have any, not a word about when they would get some in stock. The sales guy seemed genuinely disinterested. I left feeling a bit disappointed. I went straight to millennium auto BMW dealer. The difference was night and day. They didn't crowd me when I was browsing. When I glanced over at sales they arrived with prices and all information. They served me coffee. They were happy to negotiate price. In the wnd I bought BMW. As far as getting bare bones luxury cars for inflated prices you've come to the right country. I believe this is to keep prices affordable due to huge tax barriers. And to keep local assembled models in line with the imports. And to gouge gouge gouge. If you want better value and all the bells and whistles you simply cannot beat the top model Japanese cars. sent from my mobile

Yep, I'd take a top of the line camry/accord/teana anyday over an overpriced Benz/Bmw. You then have at least 500K left in your pocket compared to a C class. I leave those for the rich Thais who have more money than commonsense. Resale will also be horrendously bad.

[whiteman]

i got the new c 250 petrol with amg body kit has navigator and many extras = 2.999 million bhat and I am more than happy with it and AXA do a good 1st class Insurance on it

I will not be looking at reselling it on for I had my last benz for over 13 years

Edited June 26, 2013 by whiteman

[kurnell]

Aren't Benz the favorite of aging, Johnnie Walker drinking, Chinese-Thais that still think they are the ultimate sign of prestige.

[whiteman]

Aren't Benz the favorite of aging, Johnnie Walker drinking, Chinese-Thais that still think they are the ultimate sign of prestige.

All are correct but I bought my first merc at the age of 37 and I dont drink much at all just wine. And yes Im over 60+ nothing like enjoying ones later years

[wailee]

I believe you need to examine at the model level. Not all models are made in Thailand

Thanks. I have checked on Thonburi Group's web site. The company indicates that it manufactures C-Class Benz, which is the model in which I'm interested.

They do not appear to manufacture the A-Class, which is the model I originally went to see. This is perhaps corroborated by the dealer rep. at Benz Rama IV, who said that the A-Class awaiting its customer to collect, had been ordered-in from Germany.

However, I still can't reconcile the figures. The car is 1mb above the price of a basic Toyota Camry. It is made in Thailand, the same as the Camry and so therefore one might assume the percentage of tax would be the same.

Looking at the Benz web site for other countries - the C-Class is just price a little more than a normal family saloon. For example, the equivalent of 1,222,000 THB.

So what is going on with Benz here, if the taxes are the same percentage as (say) Toyotas? Why is the car nearly double the price? Is it price-gouging/profiteering?

[wailee]

Yep, I'd take a top of the line camry/accord/teana anyday over an overpriced Benz/Bmw. You then have at least 500K left in your pocket compared to a C class. I leave those for the rich Thais who have more money than commonsense. Resale will also be horrendously bad.

Yes, that might indeed be sensible and good luck to you, but it depends if one is personally happy with that. I previously bought a new Toyota Camry (2008) when I first moved here. Once I got to know the car, I felt that it was basically rubbish, inferior and full of plastic fittings and cost-saving designs. I hated the wallowing way it drove, constantly tipping from left to right as it drove the highway. The brakes felt like they were tiny bicycle brakes attempting to stop a juggonaut - just no assurance in them at all.

Often when flicking-up some minor debris in the road, it would break some pointless plastic flange, that bolts to the sills, just to the front of the rear wheels. It's a kind of deflection device, but just weak plastic, costing 500 Bt per time.

The fittings inside are cheap and weak and soon lose their newness. I also looked at the Teana after I became sooo tired of the Toyota Camry. I looked underneath the front wheels and the valance beneath the front air-dam and the material is paper-thin and not even secured in place. They're built like a toy car.

Worst of all, as far as my personal taste is concerned, most of these Japanese attempts at luxury motors, are front-wheel-drive. Again, it's for ease of manufacture. I've noticed that with the piffling and rather limited range of Japanese designed cars in Thailand that the front wheels are ultra-close to the door pillar. I mentioned it earlier in my post about the A-Class Merc, which is also a front-drive car, sadly.

So, you've got a situation in which the front wheels are right slap-bang in front of the front door pillar, but the distance between the front bumper and the centre of the front wheels is a huge distance. Is it to reduce the wheelbase and make it easy to park?. The Camry kept on fouling the ramp at the office car park.

Can any engineers on here, suggest why the front-wheel-drive cars are all like this nowadays (including Fords)? Is it to do with the location of the engine and combined gearbox, meaning that the wheels can only be located right up at the driver's feet? The other problem with it, of course, is that the driver and passenger footwell area has an enormous wheel arch bulge in it. You can't fully stretch your legs out.

Frankly, the only Japanese vehicles I actually respect for engineering integrity and simplicity are the pick-up trucks, for their classic rear-wheel design and longitudinal engine configuration, but I'm certainly not driving around in one of those -- take one of those out and you're a magnet for the brown extortionists.

[rubberduck]

Rediculous indeed, I bet those 'fake' Mercedesses don't even come with a full set of airbags, rear airbags, side airbags, catalytic-convertor and carbon filter.

I also never understood why they never have no testdrive model, do Thais just buy by the look ???

[JoeW]

Doesn't the A class use the same engine as a Dacia Sandero?

[MrRealDeal]

I believe you need to examine at the model level. Not all models are made in Thailand

Thanks. I have checked on Thonburi Group's web site. The company indicates that it manufactures C-Class Benz, which is the model in which I'm interested.

They do not appear to manufacture the A-Class, which is the model I originally went to see. This is perhaps corroborated by the dealer rep. at Benz Rama IV, who said that the A-Class awaiting its customer to collect, had been ordered-in from Germany.

However, I still can't reconcile the figures. The car is 1mb above the price of a basic Toyota Camry. It is made in Thailand, the same as the Camry and so therefore one might assume the percentage of tax would be the same.

Looking at the Benz web site for other countries - the C-Class is just price a little more than a normal family saloon. For example, the equivalent of 1,222,000 THB.

So what is going on with Benz here, if the taxes are the same percentage as (say) Toyotas? Why is the car nearly double the price? Is it price-gouging/profiteering?

Toyota parts are less expensive and many parts are imported even though it's assembled here is part of the reason , the other part is that a Benz much like a Nike sneaker can get more because of it's name for the same basic thing. Not really price gouging or profiteering just how the world works.

Edited June 28, 2013 by MrRealDeal

[Payboy]

Not sure that Thonburi Auto makes the engine block for the C-class in Thailand. I suspect most of the major components of the car are imported and TA just assemble it here.

[Ace of Pop]

Doesn't the A class use the same engine as a Dacia Sandero?

Yes.

[Sophon]

<snipped>

However, I still can't reconcile the figures. The car is 1mb above the price of a basic Toyota Camry. It is made in Thailand, the same as the Camry and so therefore one might assume the percentage of tax would be the same.

<snipped>

No the tax percentages are not the same on the cars. In general terms the Toyota models are build in Thailand from parts also produced in Thailand, while Mercedes assemble their cars from parts imported from abroad.

Cars wholly manufactured in Thailand have the lowest tax rate.

Cars assembled in Thailand but using imported parts have a considerably higher tax rate.

Cars imported already assembled have the highest tax rate.

And then there is, of course, different tax rates depending on engine size, classification (car/pickup) etc.

Sophon

Edited June 28, 2013 by Sophon

[JAS21]

When I came to live here full time, in 2007, I bought a new 520d and at that time the exchange rate was 69THB/GBP. I sold it five years later and lost a bomb!! I would want to be considerably better off than I am to consider a luxury car again, in fact I wouldn't buy another car. I bought a 4*4 V-Cross pickup and enjoy driving it much more and you can see what is ahead!!

From riding in friends cars I much prefer the 525d to the E-Class. In Thailand the C Class isn't considerer 'that much of a status symbol, if a all'!! But I do agree that when shutting the doors they do sound more solid than a Camry or similar. One of my neighbours has just bought a new Fortuna and I quite like it.

This is by someone who when in the UK went through quite a selection of new cars, just to name a few that I enjoyed Lotus, Daimler, Jags (several) inc XJS's, M3 and a Merc (a couple).

You are now talking at least the equiv of £100,000 for 525d or an E-Class............

Edited June 28, 2013 by JAS21

[IMHO]

I should have guessed form the subject line this was going to be turn into another cry over taxes

I just don't have the energy to go over it all again - c'est la vie

[steveromagnino]

Benz a class and the CLA are both fully imported, but are relatively cheaper as they are 'going' to be made here in future so Benz wants to target a new market, and also to dork the grey market cars.

Most of the C, E, S variants are made here but a lot of the components are imported. Benz Thailand is similar to BMW Thailand in this respect. And yes, Benz has a way worse approach, BMW provides 5 years of BSI (all maintenance, servicing costs covered for 5 years up to 100,000km) whereas Benz provides I think 50% discount on the cost of parts.

Pricewise, the A class for 1.9m is a bit basic, the 2.5m AMG variant is better, but I strongly recommend you test drive them, it is a disappointing ride in the A250, the gear box is just awful compared to the dual clutches in a VW.

The C class cheapest variant is around 2.2m as you state, the CLA is 2.65m (but fully imported). C coupe C180 is I think 2.99m which isn't a bad price considering it is fully imported.

By comparison, BMW has a 116i with an M sport kit for around the same price as the baby A class, but again, it's all looks no performance.

You will struggle to get immediate delivery of an A, CLA within a few weeks, try end of the year/early next year. C class might be easier.

Your other options would be a low mileage ex demo or 2nd hand still with BSI (Benz has no servicing after sale) - at the moment grey might not be worth it for this type of car. Or consider another brand such as VW (Scirocco is fully imported around 2m but getting a little a little long in the tooth). Or up the budget a little for an F30 BMW 320D or 328 (which are both around 3m and probably a little better than the C which is going to be replaced 18 months from now). BTW 2nd hand BMWs just out of BSI can go very cheaply; right now if you look on www.one2car.com or www.taladrod.com you can find good value 328s 330s and 325s which are the previous Chris Bangle model - still looks good but once out of BSI a lot of BMW owners go straight to a new car.

Note that fully imported models tend to depreciate slightly faster, this is because Thai people believe that it is harder to service a model which is less common, and the starting price in an apples for apples comparison of features tends to be higher.

it's not an ideal situation, the best value autos here are pick ups...but if you want a more luxurious brand then you have to be willing to pay. On the flipside, depreciation is often lower than elsewhere. From a status perspective, a C class isn't really cutting it anymore, nowadays Benz E coupes and the like are a dime a dozen (priced around 3.8m, which is starting to get to the point I'd prefer a decent car beyond the performance of an E200).

Edited June 28, 2013 by steveromagnino

[Ace of Pop]

To add my bit. No Company Benz anymore,just a Civic Navi. Don't miss it, nor can i justify that the same quality from Benz costs 2.7 Mill Bht more..The Civic feels alive, the Benz dash and seats are crap by comparison. I requested the Company for a cheaper BMW , but being a Semi Thai Run Firm, Benz was the Company Image. I Recall a Ford Scorpio 4 by 4,being just as good 20 odd years ago!!.Apart from Benz Sports,they have no immage other than a Portuguese Taxi. What Benze.? Blue C Class Something or other,never bothered looking.Never do.

[Naam]

To add my bit. No Company Benz anymore,just a Civic Navi. Don't miss it, nor can i justify that the same quality from Benz costs 2.7 Mill Bht more..The Civic feels alive, the Benz dash and seats are crap by comparison. I requested the Company for a cheaper BMW , but being a Semi Thai Run Firm, Benz was the Company Image. I Recall a Ford Scorpio 4 by 4,being just as good 20 odd years ago!!.Apart from Benz Sports,they have no immage other than a Portuguese Taxi. What Benze.? Blue C Class Something or other,never bothered looking.Never do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

[Thereisnoif]

Welcome to a fool's car market .

[arthurwait]

The distance between the front bumper and front wheels, first guess would most likely be for crash protection minimum distance or room for a turbo and room around it for cooling. Turbo diesel or small petrol turboed engine.

Or is the engine leaned forward for a lower bonnet line ?

[wailee]

The distance between the front bumper and front wheels, first guess would most likely be for crash protection minimum distance or room for a turbo and room around it for cooling. Turbo diesel or small petrol turboed engine.

Or is the engine leaned forward for a lower bonnet line ?

Thanks, I'm glad someone picked up on this. It's become a gripe of mine and I think it's related to that modern fad of manufacturing cheapness -- front wheel drive. If you take a look at the Fiesta in the attached, the front overhang is crazy. It means that you've got no legroom in the front compartments because the interior wheel arch is in the way. And the enormous frontage between the wheels and the bumper, well, with Thai roads and forecourt ramps at 45 degrees, you're sure to leave pieces of broken plastic behind you as you leave.

http://drivingtorque.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/2013-ford-fiesta-front.jpg

The Camry is even worse (see below). I drove this car (the 2008) for five years until recently and hated the way it wallowed along, not only pitching forwards and back due to the short wheelbase and the weight in front and behind the wheels, but also because of the the tipping from side to side on Thaland's joke road surfaces. The front overhang looked inelegant enough, but the wheels so close to the front doors looked absolutely ludicrous. It's even worse on the new camry model shown here. When I bought this car and started driving it, I couldn't believe what a bad drive it was. By contrast I bought a Jaguar XJ6 in 1986, and frankly the 22-year-old Jag showed more refinement than this so called "modern technology".

http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/2011/08/2008-Toyota-Camry-SE-side-view-1024x640.jpg

Now take a look at the BMW, a properly configured rear-wheel-drive layout, with all components in their rightful places - fewer compromises and therefore no stupid engine sitting right inside the driver and passenger compartment with a massive dashboard top to conceal the fact that the engine is really inside the passenger compartment. Franky, I think what happened is that in the 1970s I remember everbody with a modest interest in motor engineering (including my father) regarded the front-drive cars of the day as being inferior and full of trouble -- think of the crappest cars of the 1970s, the Maxi, the Austin Princess, the Metro, the Austin 1100, the Austin Ambassador, most of the French cars - all that &lt;deleted&gt;. Whenever you wanted to sell it, people would come and look, open the bonnet and proclaim, ugh, a transverse engine - no thanks. Most people with a slight knowledge of engineering-purerty, regarded these cars as junk, but no doubt the manufacturing companies, run by bean-counters (accountants) insisted that it was the way to go because of corporate cost savings -- the whole power plant can be dropped into place using a robot in one single operation. All the resulting technical breakdowns which later ensued, such as the Austin Pricess and Ambassador's 'release bearing' constantly whining and grinding, the poor lock-to-lock turning circle because of the UV joints, the broken half-shafts and the &lt;deleted&gt; way that the vehicles pull-away from standstill when the wheel is slightly turned -- well, the manufacturers continued to sell these crappy inferior pieces of junk and the poor public, restricted by choice, had no alternative but to buy them. The weaknesses, as I've mentioned, such as the bearing problems, the broken half-shafts and the &lt;deleted&gt; drivability, just got refined and refined until the public were not even aware of them. But now I see the legacy with which this rubbish engineering has left us... the engine is up inside the passenger compartment and this ridiculous overhang at the front looks pathetic. The Japanese have embraced it completely, but thankfully Merc and BMW have hung on (with some notableable exceptions such as the disappointing A-class, which I understand from the earlier poster, that it shares its engine with the cheapest car in UK!). Goodness me.

http://www.eurocarnews.com/media/pictorials/1156/5202.jpg

So, what does it leave us with? C-Class, E-Class, Ford Everest, Pick-up trucks. How about Tuk-Tuks - are they rear-wheel-drive? I guess so. Maybe I'll have a tuk-tuk. What's the import tax like on those?

Edited June 28, 2013 by wailee

[wailee]

Welcome to a fool's car market .

Absolutely a true word spoken there.

[farang000999]

What is your question OP?

Yes of course. Locally made cars are going to be better value. Let's say a Benz cost 1.5x and a Honda cost 1x in USA but in Thailand a Benz cost 3.5x but a Honda cost 1x still.

Of course, the starting price is not the only factor, you need to consider the rate of depreciation. For some reason this is really hard for farang to understand who come on here and say "IT IS CHEAPER TO BUY A CAR IN ALABAMA WHERE I CAME FROM AND DIVORCED MY SISTER BEFORE COMING TO THAILAND AND MARRYING A "GOOD GIRL""....

I buy the same car in Thailand it costs more than the USA but depreciates slower - when I sell I can recoup a greater amount than in the USA - and I can have it serviced for much cheaper.

I wonder why this topic comes up so frequently???

1. Mia farang wants a name brand car and beta farang husband is too weak to say no but he wants to come on Thai Visa and blow off steam before going and getting her the car?

2. Farang is angry that other people have more money than him and are buying cars and doesn't like that he feels small in his 2001 Civic when he is supposed to be a big shot in Thailand so he comes on TV and tells everyone how much smarter he is?

It is just interesting how farang come to Thailand and somehow get caught up in the whole class battle/keeping up with their neighbors nonsense. I am guessing a lot of it is due to wife selection but whatever...

[farang000999]

Rediculous indeed, I bet those 'fake' Mercedesses don't even come with a full set of airbags, rear airbags, side airbags, catalytic-convertor and carbon filter.

I also never understood why they never have no testdrive model, do Thais just buy by the look ???

are you serious? of course you can take a test drive. they just don't want every bored farang wandering in and wanting a test drive before finally deciding that only a moron would pay those import fees!

[Skint]

The CLA looks a better option than the C class only 2.6mil, if your not ticking the extras then there is no point in owning a luxury car comand is a must. if budget is an issue look at their used car section and find a good spec'd one or even a higher class one for similar money.

[Naam]

Welcome to a fool's car market .

Absolutely a true word spoken there.

yawwnnnn....

add a wee bit envy that there are successful fools who made enough money to afford a car for 5, 10, 25 millions or even more.

three years ago an old car built in 1936, a Bugatti 57SC was bought at an auction for 29.7 million US-Dollars. what kind of fool shelled out that kind of money?