I Will Not Resign: Thaksin

[Thaible]

Winning 3 elections in a row is amazing.

He definitely has a mandate from the people to continue the progress of Thailand.

[konangrit]

Winning 3 elections in a row is amazing.

He definitely has a mandate from the people to continue the progress of Thailand.

Well, over the space of five years it isn't really that amazing. My apologies if you were being sarcastic.

[sriracha john]

Who says it was a majority? Only Thaksin.

The EC should come out with the final figures tomorrow, but of all people the party that was running in this election should have a good handle on the numbers. After all I'm sure that there was a scrutinizer from TRT at every poll.

So it's still just Thaksin then, ok. Shame he doesn't follow his standard of waiting for the official final tally from the EC.

Who are these EC officials that say everyone who defaced a ballot knew their ballot would become void? Did they ask all of them why they did it and did they know it would? It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that many did not know.

The EC had a whole page on on what was a good mark with the stamp, that you posted. I'm sure there are other regulations regarding pens and what is and what is not a good ballot. Everyone here knows that if you vote for 2 people or write on your ballot it is voided. That's so that no one can distinguish how one person's votes from how another person votes so they can stay anonymous.

Every voter has access to the website I posted? Every voter understands the mish-mash, mumbo-jumbo instructions on marking ballots that I posted? You can categorically state that every voter is provided this information not to make any marks before they cast their ballot. Is it written on the ballot itself? Voter education isn't exactly a strong suit here, in fact it's pathetic. Which is precisely why it's likely many people would not be aware of the regulation. Other people have posted here that when their friends/families were voting, they weren't even instructed that they COULD vote "no vote"... that the only option was to cast a vote for TRT.

What are the numbers on these ballots, that were nullified, actually defaced? How many were nullified by EC officials for arbirtrarily-decided stray marks or improperly placed, rubber-stamped marks? Never have heard any explanation regarding why the switch to these rubber stamps, btw.

A void ballot is a void ballot, they don't sort them into categories, why would they. They did accept the one the guy did in Blood, in most other countries that would be classed as a spoiled ballot as it was not marked with the appropriate instrument.

I would think that EC officials would be concerned about the unprecendented numbers of invalidated ballots...numbers that are astronomically high.... but then that presumes the EC is actually concerned about holding a valid election and obviously that's too much to presume. Who determines exactly what constitutes an invalid ballot? Local EC officials. Still troubling is the thus-far unaddressed rationale for using these rubber stamps. As it's the first time in history they were used, I presume the EC would be interested in monitoring specifically how many ballots were invalidated by their misuse...but again, that's presuming the EC gives a darn. With the historically significant numbers involved, I would have hoped that the EC would want to investigate this phenomenon extensively.... on every possible level ... and evaluate every possible variable as best they could... such as which provinces had higher/lower rates.. for example, why were the percentage of invalidated ballots so astoundingly high in Chiang Mai districts?

[lukamar]

I would think that EC officials would be concerned about the unprecendented numbers of invalidated ballots...numbers that are astronomically high.... but then that presumes the EC is actually concerned about holding a valid election and obviously that's too much to presume. Who determines exactly what constitutes an invalid ballot? Local EC officials. Still troubling is the thus-far unaddressed rationale for using these rubber stamps. As it's the first time in history they were used, I presume the EC would be interested in monitoring specifically how many ballots were invalidated by their misuse...but again, that's presuming the EC gives a darn. With the historically significant numbers involved, I would have hoped that the EC would want to investigate this phenomenon extensively.... on every possible level ... and evaluate every possible variable as best they could... such as which provinces had higher/lower rates.. for example, why were the percentage of invalidated ballots so astoundingly high in Chiang Mai districts?

John..... Time to face the facts.... Your anti-Thaksin side had a good kick at the can but they did not prevail. The TRT has won the election. TRT have the majority vote. You can whine about the EC and spoiled ballots and valid elections but it will not change the outcome. The majority of the Thai voters voted the opposite to what you would have liked and elected the TRT to be their government.

Edited April 3, 2006 by lukamar

[sriracha john]

Are you that close to TRT Party that you are privy to these unannounced results?

By discounting the serious flaws in the electoral process, you negate the validity of the election.

Sorry if you consider a desire for fairness and and a yearning for people like the EC to be held accountable and to do a responsible job as "whining." Concepts such as these must be foreign to your way of thinking.

I can appreciate your fondness for Thaksin, but seriously... when considering the totality of his history, it's rather perplexing.... but then again, that probably explains why you already have the election total results in front of you while the rest of us mere mortals have to continue to wait.

[sriracha john]

By the by, just when will this election actually and truly be over and we have 500 elected MP's so that Parliament can sit....

have your TRT connections told you what the plan is for that?

[lukamar]

Are you that close to TRT Party that you are privy to these unannounced results?

NO. But there is more to Thailand than BKK

By discounting the serious flaws in the electoral process, you negate the validity of the election.

Every election has flaws, the US system has flaws, the idea is to fix them not use them as an excuse.

Sorry if you consider a desire for fairness and and a yearning for people like the EC to be held accountable and to do a responsible job as "whining." Concepts such as these must be foreign to your way of thinking.

The EC has been overwhelmed in this election by people with an agenda why would your group stop now? You are looking for a reason your side lost, It's cause they didn't run..

I can appreciate your fondness for Thaksin, but seriously... when considering the totality of his history, it's rather perplexing.... but then again, that probably explains why you already have the election total results in front of you while the rest of us mere mortals have to continue to wait.

That's right if you can't get a first down. Punt the ball, point at the other party and yell foul to divert attention.. Good Try once again, that ploy gets old the forth or fifth time you use it. The history is..... He's won 3 in a row, nothing that any other leader has come close to and the majority of Thai's, maybe not close to you, voted TRT.

[jdinasia]

Remember? They came with proposals to Thaksin who snubbed them. Then they announced the boycot, then Thaksin run back with his counter proposals, then they hesitated, then they talked to PAD, then they took a gamble and it worked.

That is how negotiations generally work, in politics and business: proposals, counter-proposals, and somehow you get together with a for all sides acceptable compromise.

And how did the "gamble" work?

I see that the country still does not function. That means it did not work. Well, unless you are intent to bring the country to a standstill in order to force your opinion through no matter what, and especially no compromise.

Thaksin is still PM, by the way.

Where are you? Thaksin is the caretaker PM ... there is no PM and as far as I can see not one anytime soon

it is worth to risk social peace for ousting a thief and murder and it might been worth to have some people killed.

Ahhhh. There we are...finally.

So, it is now worth to get some people killed. Nice.

How many then, please?

1?

10?

100?

1000?

More?

So, that is now the "peaceful" position of the PAD spporters?

Corpses? No problem.

Destruction of busines? No Problem.

Long lasting social conflicts? No problem.

You have given there the exact reason why i cannot support the PAD.

By the way, as you so graciously have decided over the life of "some people", where will you be when the killing starts?

May i guess - debating behind the safety of the computer screen.

Truly shocked...

...not exactly.

Hmmmm I personally don't condone violence ..... but wanna bet that the numbers will be less than inthe south? or less than the extra-judicial killings of drug dealers* Your personal outrage on so many of these topics would make more sense if they matched with the reality ....

NO, it was his own idea to call the elections, it wasn't Chamlong who demanded them. PAD denounced elections from the first day. Thaksin thought elections would solve his problems, they didn't.

Can i assume that you don't play chess?

By the way, do you also support the opinion of your fellow PAD supporter, that killing "some people" is worth it?

I would think that EC officials would be concerned about the unprecendented numbers of invalidated ballots...numbers that are astronomically high.... but then that presumes the EC is actually concerned about holding a valid election and obviously that's too much to presume. Who determines exactly what constitutes an invalid ballot? Local EC officials. Still troubling is the thus-far unaddressed rationale for using these rubber stamps. As it's the first time in history they were used, I presume the EC would be interested in monitoring specifically how many ballots were invalidated by their misuse...but again, that's presuming the EC gives a darn. With the historically significant numbers involved, I would have hoped that the EC would want to investigate this phenomenon extensively.... on every possible level ... and evaluate every possible variable as best they could... such as which provinces had higher/lower rates.. for example, why were the percentage of invalidated ballots so astoundingly high in Chiang Mai districts?

John..... Time to face the facts.... Your anti-Thaksin side had a good kick at the can but they did not prevail. The TRT has won the election. TRT have the majority vote. You can whine about the EC and spoiled ballots and valid elections but it will not change the outcome. The majority of the Thai voters voted the opposite to what you would have liked and elected the TRT to be their government.

Actually Luk ... in most places a ballot would be valid if the "intent of the voter" could be established.

[sriracha john]

Are you that close to TRT Party that you are privy to these unannounced results?

NO. But there is more to Thailand than BKK

Precisely my point. You said TRT won the election. All I've seen are the unofficial results to five provinces plus BKK... You have the results to all the other 70 provinces already?

By discounting the serious flaws in the electoral process, you negate the validity of the election.

Every election has flaws, the US system has flaws, the idea is to fix them not use them as an excuse.

Yes, every election has flaws... some minor, some major... if there's 1,000,000 invalidated ballots thus far.. what number would that percentage translate to in a Canadian election? Would Canadians not be completely alarmed over the issue? How exactly do you fix a problem without investigating it and evaluating how best to prevent it's reoccurence? You suggest they just shrug their shoulders and wonder "why would they" be wondering what number were invalidated for disqualifying writings on their ballot and what number were for improper "X's"... To me, that doesn't fix the problem, nor is it an "excuse."

Sorry if you consider a desire for fairness and and a yearning for people like the EC to be held accountable and to do a responsible job as "whining." Concepts such as these must be foreign to your way of thinking.

The EC has been overwhelmed in this election by people with an agenda why would your group stop now? You are looking for a reason your side lost, It's cause they didn't run..

"My group"? Sorry, but unlike your own signature, I'm not a member of any "group." If, by "my side," you are inferring to people that don't like Thaksin, I would just say that for now... nothing has been determined, but certainly if you have secret vote tallies already compiled, I'd be most grateful if you shared them with the rest of the people on the forum.

I can appreciate your fondness for Thaksin, but seriously... when considering the totality of his history, it's rather perplexing.... but then again, that probably explains why you already have the election total results in front of you while the rest of us mere mortals have to continue to wait.

That's right if you can't get a first down. Punt the ball, point at the other party and yell foul to divert attention.. Good Try once again, that ploy gets old the forth or fifth time you use it. The history is..... He's won 3 in a row, nothing that any other leader has come close to and the majority of Thai's, maybe not close to you, voted TRT.

please share your total vote counts.... and thank you for not addressing any serious issue or concerns or points raised... Your avoidance of these makes it much easier to end this back and forth pointless drivel.

[lukamar]

Where are you? Thaksin is the caretaker PM ... there is no PM and as far as I can see not one anytime soon

Actually Luk ... in most places a ballot would be valid if the "intent of the voter" could be established.

You are a bit hard on Pyat there. The National News Bureau Public Relations Department,the Post and the Nation all refer to him as the PM. You are correct though it's not the correct terminology but probably used to save space.

================

From the EC Website..

Ballot paper becomes invalid because:

No mark

Cannot tell which number being marked

Several boxes marked ท Marking consists of several crosses XX

Other marking such as used instead of cross ท Marking is outside the box

Writing or making sign on ballot paper Unintentional tainting of ballot by finger printing ink does not make it invalid.

Ballot is invalid if a number not corresponding to a candidate or an already successful candidate is marked.

[jdinasia]

hmmmmm 31 constituencies to vote again .....

I missed what happens with the Party List ... can anyone help there?

(I really do love the guys overseas that think this is/should be finished .... sadly it has just begun!)

[Jai Dee]

Prime Minister looks set to establish an independent committee to work towards reconciliation

Thai Rak Thai Party will set up an independent committee comprising recognized figures of the society to run the country as a way to create an atmosphere of reconciliation among conflicting parties.

The plan was revealed by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra during an interview in the Krong Sathanakan (กรองสถานการณ์) or Situation Analysis Program on Television Channel 11 last night. The proposed committee would be granted full power and may even ask the Prime Minister to leave if they deem it is conducive to the reconciliation. Members of the committee will include former prime ministers, former parliament presidents and other prominent figures from various sectors who will be asked to leave personal interest behind.

As for the political reform, Prime Minister Thaksin said the process has to come after Parliament is convened. Then, the government will propose an amendment to Article 313 of the Constitution which is key article leading to the constitutional amendment.

Dr. Thaksin reaffirmed his intention to abandon the premiership temporarily if the People’s Alliance for Democracy agrees to give up the demonstration and the former Opposition parties consent to participate in the election.

Asked whether he will return to politics, the Prime Minister said it depends on future situation, adding he has at the moment four people in mind who could take the helm as the next prime minister.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 April 2006

[brahmburgers]

Thaksin has now been on air one hour and seventeen minutes and he's still goin' strong.

"The Thaksin Show"........

Thaksin is a habitual liar - which includes wiggling around the truth whenever it pleases him. The promise, weeks ago that "if I don't get 50% of the vote I will resign" and all his other 'promises' have basketball court-sized wiggle room. He'll end up running the country like his corrupt personal business empire for as long as he possibly can - and the truth be damned.

[Jai Dee]

The Prime Minister pledges the implementation of mega-projects

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said he will go ahead with major projects initiated in his previous administration such as the construction of major electric train routes around Bangkok and the change of ordinary buses to air-conditioned ones.

Talking about a new government policy after the election, in a television program last night, Prime Minister Thaksin said most of the projects will be similar to his last government. Importance will be still attached to people at the grassroots level. Jobs will be created while landless farmers will be allocated permanent land for cultivation. Populist projects will be further carried on.

As for the government assistance to grassroots people which has been criticized by middle-income earners as preventing low-income people from helping themselves, Prime Minister Thaksin said public relations campaigns will be stepped up to create better understanding toward the policy. He stressed that the government is giving equal importance to people in every sector.

After the program, he was asked by foreign journalists about the direction of the new government, the Prime Minister answered briefly that he would carry on duties with best efforts.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 April 2006

[OlRedEyes]

The Prime Minister pledges the implementation of mega-projects

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said he will go ahead with major projects initiated in his previous administration such as the construction of major electric train routes around Bangkok and the change of ordinary buses to air-conditioned ones.

This can be done? I thought he can't form a govt. with empty seats in parliament?

After the program, he was asked by foreign journalists about the direction of the new government, the Prime Minister answered briefly that he would carry on duties with best efforts.

......and no direction.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 04 April 2006

Edited April 4, 2006 by OlRedEyes

[h90]

when you recover.......

"You have given there the exact reason why i cannot support the PAD."

I am not the PAD.....

tell me would it has been better if Hitler would have been stopped due tue violence. If 100 people would have been died instead of millions.

How about Pol Pot?

The USA is accepting collateral damage of thousands of people in Iraq and only a few european (like me) think thats not OK, while the rest of the world is accepting it.

it is worth to risk social peace for ousting a thief and murder and it might been worth to have some people killed.

Ahhhh. There we are...finally.

So, it is now worth to get some people killed. Nice.

How many then, please?

1?

10?

100?

1000?

More?

So, that is now the "peaceful" position of the PAD spporters?

Corpses? No problem.

Destruction of busines? No Problem.

Long lasting social conflicts? No problem.

You have given there the exact reason why i cannot support the PAD.

By the way, as you so graciously have decided over the life of "some people", where will you be when the killing starts?

May i guess - debating behind the safety of the computer screen.

Truly shocked...

...not exactly.

Edited April 4, 2006 by h90

[sting01]

I do agree people uppcountry like him because that, and bangkokian dislike him because or it's them who pay the bills by their taxes (I consider that normal but it's my 2 cents) and because he never have give money to the middle class living in bangkok, on the ground their earn enought by them self (and if not, as they do not vote for him he does not care much).

If he was a real donator, he will not pay his taxes of Shin selling (he already did it), but give directly huge amout of money to the poors.If he simply given away the half of what he should have given as taxes, all those problems would have not appear.

I am a middle-class in Bangkok and the reason we don't want him is not against the poor. I just want to make sure my son can grow up and can compete in a fair country. I just want my son to have a place to stand at the same level with his son. The way he uses poor peoples as the hostage just make us sick. We are feeling like a foreigner here in Thailand now.

REally, that is great, I do hope it mean the 'people power' will finally give some basic and democratic right to the foreigners (as we do to thai people who want to immigrate in farang land), and the constitution will be amended to suppress some articles that are obviously 'anti farang'.

I am more than glad middle class bangkokian feel like that, at least you feel what foreigners feel since a long time.

[tettyan]

What interests me is, if all the 500 seats are not filled within the 30 day mandatory period, after the bye elections have been held, what happens next???? Furthermore is there anything in the constitution to overcome the impasse?

Nope.

[cclub75]

Tuesday, 9h15 AM...

We still don't have any official figures.

No turn out number. Just some incomplete and unofficial results.

It's amazing.

[lukamar]

I thought he can't form a govt. with empty seats in parliament?

There is a precedent set by the Constitutional Court in their 2000AD rulings 20/2543 & 26/2543 that the Senate could not sit until the Senate was filled. That was 6 years ago, some of the constitutional court members may have changed or the view of the court may have changed in that time. No one will have any idea until they issue a ruling, They have however left as couple of spots in their ruling that could be used when arguing a new point.

[tettyan]

Even today, away from the public eye, certain industrial suburbs have developed into nighly no-go zones, in which the gangs rule and terrorize the population. There, politics does not matter much anymore.

If people want this to become Thailand's future, just keep on this with this madness.

Could this be why Thaksin is so popular in the Bangkok suburbs? Have his "tough" policies on drugs and crime had a concrete impact? I wouldn't know, I'm asking from your personal experience.

On your other comments, I believe that even though Thaksin is one of the most despicable leaders to have ever ruled Thailand, ousting him in the way the PAD wants is asking for trouble. I think it's time for all sides to talk behind closed doors with a Privy Councillor a moderator. Thaksin should accept that he should step aside at least temporarily, while the opposition should accept the TRT victory and agree to contest the by-elections and participate in the "political and constitutional reform process" (whatever that means). Once the reforms are in place and another election is called, Thaksin should be given one last chance to make a comeback.

Edited April 4, 2006 by tettyan

[mogoso]

Thank buddah Thailand isn't just Bangkok.

I concur , If the voting percentage remains the same, its really a good old fashioned butt kicking. But I doubt they'll be gracious in defeat, nicities don't often come from that side of the political spectrum.

[h90]

I do agree people uppcountry like him because that, and bangkokian dislike him because or it's them who pay the bills by their taxes (I consider that normal but it's my 2 cents) and because he never have give money to the middle class living in bangkok, on the ground their earn enought by them self (and if not, as they do not vote for him he does not care much).

If he was a real donator, he will not pay his taxes of Shin selling (he already did it), but give directly huge amout of money to the poors.If he simply given away the half of what he should have given as taxes, all those problems would have not appear.

I am a middle-class in Bangkok and the reason we don't want him is not against the poor. I just want to make sure my son can grow up and can compete in a fair country. I just want my son to have a place to stand at the same level with his son. The way he uses poor peoples as the hostage just make us sick. We are feeling like a foreigner here in Thailand now.

REally, that is great, I do hope it mean the 'people power' will finally give some basic and democratic right to the foreigners (as we do to thai people who want to immigrate in farang land), and the constitution will be amended to suppress some articles that are obviously 'anti farang'.

I am more than glad middle class bangkokian feel like that, at least you feel what foreigners feel since a long time.

I don't want any democratic rights in Thailand, its not my country, as well I don't like if some Thai girls married to an ugly farang in Farangistan can vote, not their country and they don't have the knowlege to understand the cases their.

The way should be, if you get citizen you get the rights (on how easy/difficult you get citizenship is another difficult point).

[lukamar]

, nicities don't often come from that side of the political spectrum.

There has not been any nicities from any side of the spectrum. It's time they all got together and figured out what would work for Thailand.

[jaapfries]

Anyways let's see where this soap opera leads to next.

A much weaker THB hopefully

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

===============================================================

That is absolute rubbish, my friend ! But; I don't blame you at all for being this naive.

If you want to learn some truths: see if you can pick-up a copy of H. Perkins's 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man' and you will be utterly shocked into reality, okay ?

Mind you; if you are faint of heart, please don't read this book (documented evidence), because it may just be too much, okay ?!

I a nutshell; one loads-up the masses with so much debt, that a situation is created where these same masses will never ever be able to dig themselves out of the hole they will eventually find themselves in.

However; before getting to that point (viz. of realization of being in the hole) - the going "seems" great and that is precisely what this despot is shooting for.

This man named Thaksin is NOT a good man; he is a very, very evil chap. Kharma will certainly take care of him, but in the meantime he is in a position to do a heck-of-a-lot of serious damage !

Sorry 4 Siam

[lukamar]

I don't like if some Thai girls married to an ugly farang in Farangistan can vote, not their country and they don't have the knowledge to understand the cases their.

The way should be, if you get citizen you get the rights (on how easy/difficult you get citizenship is another difficult point).

Other than a totally sexist comment. Thai girls married to ugly Farang but living in Thailand should be allowed to vote, by your thinking? "It's not their country?" Mate.. It's a lot more their country than yours no matter where they are living. How about students studying out of country should they not be allowed to vote? How about Thai's working abroad, say at a Thai Embassy? Can they vote, they should be knowledgeable? Maybe only Thai's with doctoral degrees should be allowed to vote Or maybe only farmers should be allowed to vote because they are closer to the land.

I don't have a clue what country you come from but I'm guessing you have the right to vote in that countries election. Maybe you should not be allowed to vote in your national elections because to use your words you don't have the knowlege to understand the cases there.

[thebear]

It's all about putting money/benefits in peoples pockets - particularly those who haven't got it. To the rich/well off in Bangkok? Well Thaksins continuation might be a minor irritation but at least the wheels of the economy will continue to turn - remember where those zillions you have come from - the grass roots society who you employ so cheaply!

Uh, there's a flip side to that coin.

Poor people have a choice on how to spend their time. Apparently many of them prefer to spend it working for the rich and middle class (e.g. relatively "well off") for low wages. What's the alternative? Unemployement? Thank the rich and middle class for giving them a choice they woudn't otherwise have.

Interesting view point on a sink or swim society - no government funded social safety nets here!

[fredus]

Adichai>> If you really think the 30baht-scheme has helped the poor or the loans to everyone that wanted it has put the poor in any better position then they where in before, then you better wake up and do it quickly.

It's almost amazing reading this from (semi-) educated expats (and other signups) on this board.

I agree! The bill of this stupid action is only paid by the poor and unaducated. They believe they get great benefits but they are not able to see that they pay way to much for it. Instead of using the money for aducate the poor children and to build schools and aducate the teachers better, the money goes directly in the pockets of their rulers. The ruling class want the country-people stay unaducated and stupid. I believe it is very easy to see why. The 30 baht health scam and the loans are nothing else then sand in the eyes of the rural people. It's just another way of cheating!

[sriracha john]

bloomberg.com

Thaksin last night said he planned to convene parliament as soon as possible, and move ahead with his commitment to amend the constitution.

He said he will form a parliament as soon the Election Commission has overseen the successful election of all 500 members.

[adjan jb]

Anyways let's see where this soap opera leads to next.

A much weaker THB hopefully

Come on, grow up. He commands a much greater majority than any other leader I can think of, and whether you like it or not, the majority are for him.

He is liked because he is the first one to provide real benefits for the poor in the rural areas. The main reason why he is hated by the Bangkok lot.

The 30 baht scheme is a 15 year old idea. It's the brainchild of some grassroots organizations.

But Thaksin was bright enough to pick up the idea while the previous Democrat administration has ignored it. But this scheme is flawed (It's bankrupt, the best doctors move to private hospitals, the patients are not properly treated).

What are the other real benefits ? I've been living in a rural area with the poor for years now and i still haven't seen those real benefits. Can you elaborate please ?