Monthly Expenditures Of Expats

[greenwanderer108]

In all the dozens of various income threads in Thaivisa over the months, there always seems to be two particular groups that surface...

1) Those making under 40,000/ month, able to get by, may/may not be content with lifestyle

and

2) Those making anywhere from 50-250,000 baht/month, despite being part of a financial elite of SE Asia, tend to claim that they are just getting by (i.e. could be making xxx amount back home, etc.)

I, myself am in the lower section of group one...Anyhow, I've noticed a tendancy for someone who fits in group two to ask a question like:

"How can you survive on XXX amount in Thailand?" And they will usually follow by asking us in group one to list out our spending...

Whenever I read such questions/comments from group two, my first instinct is to lash out and call that group two poster 'ignorant'...I realize, sometimes my emotions can take over and thus objectivity is lost..

Following is an average budget of my spending while living in Bangkok the past two years with roughly 25,000 baht income, so you can see what 'poverty' really looks like and decide if 'poverty' is actually misused here.

Rent/Electricity/Water

5000 baht (total is 10k but it's shared between me and the wifey)

Transportation (BTS, Bus, Taxis, boat, etc.)

1500 baht

Groceries (mostly chicken, toiletries, noodles, rice, spices, sauces, milk, juice)

4000 baht

Beer (Average about 2 bottles a day for 27 days of the month)

2200 baht

Phone and Internet

3000 baht

okay...so this is slightly overestimating...but works out about right to roughly 15,000 baht...And I might add, that I'm not so cheap and conservative when it comes to the beer and eating...In fact I've gained 20 kg in the last year...Mostly the beer, but lots of western fast food here and there contributes its share. Sounds more like glutany than poverty...but hey

...I usually am able to put away 4-5000 baht a month unless I end up purchasing some new toy...I've got more materials than I know what to do with between clothes, equipment, musical instruments, hobby supplies, books, vcds, dvds, etc. etc.

...knowing that I spend so much on junk, crap, and non essentials, I'm able to gain so much weight, live happily, party, etc. and still able to save just a little bit....So, I guess what baffles me the most is how do those who fit in group two spend their money? I mean it is quite baffling figuring they're making anywhere from 5-10 times as much as me...Sure they're probably living in accomadations that cost 5 times as much as mine...sure they probably save atleast five times as much as me

...but as far as transportation, food, and telecommunications goes, I'm quite curious how it adds up for others, particularly the upper tier of group two...

Cheers

[meom]

I don't really see the point of this thread but for your info I earn as per group 2 and I spent as per group 1. The difference hopefully enables me to retire before I'm 65.

[Thaiquila]

There are so many personal variables.

People in the west survive on vastly different amounts also, and happiness isn't always linked to high income anywhere.

Obviously, the big variables are:

Housing Costs

Transport Costs (car or not)

Medical Costs

need for travel back to the west

Entertainment including single male variations

Family obligations (to either Thai or farang families)

So, it is so very personal.

In my opinion, a single person who doesn't go crazy on nightlife and is in reasonable health can indeed live quite excellently on under 40K baht per month in Thailand (relative to bang for the buck of the same amount in the West).

[sting01]

In all the dozens of various income threads in Thaivisa over the months, there always seems to be two particular groups that surface...

1) Those making under 40,000/ month, able to get by, may/may not be content with lifestyle

and

2) Those making anywhere from 50-250,000 baht/month, despite being part of a financial elite of SE Asia, tend to claim that they are just getting by (i.e. could be making xxx amount back home, etc.)

I, myself am in the lower section of group one...Anyhow, I've noticed a tendancy for someone who fits in group two to ask a question like:

"How can you survive on XXX amount in Thailand?" And they will usually follow by asking us in group one to list out our spending...

Whenever I read such questions/comments from group two, my first instinct is to lash out and call that group two poster 'ignorant'...I realize, sometimes my emotions can take over and thus objectivity is lost..

Following is an average budget of my spending while living in Bangkok the past two years with roughly 25,000 baht income, so you can see what 'poverty' really looks like and decide if 'poverty' is actually misused here.

Rent/Electricity/Water

5000 baht (total is 10k but it's shared between me and the wifey)

Transportation (BTS, Bus, Taxis, boat, etc.)

1500 baht

Groceries (mostly chicken, toiletries, noodles, rice, spices, sauces, milk, juice)

4000 baht

Beer (Average about 2 bottles a day for 27 days of the month)

2200 baht

Phone and Internet

3000 baht

okay...so this is slightly overestimating...but works out about right to roughly 15,000 baht...And I might add, that I'm not so cheap and conservative when it comes to the beer and eating...In fact I've gained 20 kg in the last year...Mostly the beer, but lots of western fast food here and there contributes its share. Sounds more like glutany than poverty...but hey

...I usually am able to put away 4-5000 baht a month unless I end up purchasing some new toy...I've got more materials than I know what to do with between clothes, equipment, musical instruments, hobby supplies, books, vcds, dvds, etc. etc.

...knowing that I spend so much on junk, crap, and non essentials, I'm able to gain so much weight, live happily, party, etc. and still able to save just a little bit....So, I guess what baffles me the most is how do those who fit in group two spend their money? I mean it is quite baffling figuring they're making anywhere from 5-10 times as much as me...Sure they're probably living in accomadations that cost 5 times as much as mine...sure they probably save atleast five times as much as me

...but as far as transportation, food, and telecommunications goes, I'm quite curious how it adds up for others, particularly the upper tier of group two...

Cheers

About same earnings, about same spending, but as no wifey but gf, I dun share but help (on the other hand I do not go party, so the money for help is the money for party, but I have .... let say private party for that money lol).

And also same reflexion about group 2.

[GuestHouse]

Those making anywhere from 50-250,000 baht/month

It seems to me there is a third group.... but I don't want to upset you more than you already are... so perhaps we'll skip them.

[thai1on]

What about leisure travel and charity?

Don't really need to see all 1000 Places To See Before You Die and already have seen many of them,but would like to see about a few hundred of those places.

Have always been involved in charitable organizations and personal charities especially those involved with children and the environment,and nothing else gives me more personal pleasure or fulfillment.

I am single with no heirs so plan to give away most of my money since one can't take it with you and helping a child grow up healthy and educated on a clean planet is leaving a legacy for the future.

[EVO]

i guess we fit into your second group.

our outgoings are around 2500 USD/month. our Rent is next to nothing, so if you figured a real rental figure in there youwould be looking at 3500 USD/month.

Its rediculous to be spending that here in Thailand and we are in the process of reducing the outgoings to less tha 1500 USD/month.

P.S. We are late 20s western family with 2 kids.

[Firefan]

Ah the eternal discussion!

Being single in BKK I spend about the same on groceries+beer, a bit more on transport(probably 2500, maybe due to more taxi as not a bus expert?) but B1000 less on phone/internet (1000 mobile+630 internet+200 landline+estm. 200 skype).

You do not have any medical insurance or visa costs mentioned so I presume that will be covered by your employer, from remaining income or whatever. In addition I have those costs as well as travel costs. Finally my entertainment costs are the biggie in the budget putting me closer to double your spending. One night at Bed Supperclub, Q Bar or CM2 quickly burns 1-2000 without even going wild.

I think I COULD manage to spend 25k/mth only for a shorter period of time, cutting away travel, going local on the health insurance and going/eating out much less - and I admire you for being able to fatten up on that amount but I could not do it for too long. Naturally a move to much cheaper housing would be required too.

Anyway; hats of for the fact that you can do it

[khall64au]

I would have to blow your entire budget out of the water here......

BASIC Single on Phuket:

7500 B per mth house rent (basic one-bedroom bungalow, less electricity)

10 000 per mth car rent (old beast, insurance restricted to Phuket-only)- totally necessary due to absolute lack of public transport system

2 000 p/mth petrol- absolute MINIMUM

1000 per mth ADSL bill (necessary for work)

2000 per mth telephone (minumum)

Food?

Entertainment?

Absolute basic cost of living = 35 000 B/ mth

Travel? I wish!

Welcome to FANTASY ISLAND!!!!!!

[cobra]

It's relative,

I consider group No. 1 subsistence living,

Group No.2 has reached a certain station in life, amenities, life style, even how they tip.

Going back to a Group 1 existence would seem untenable to some.

Your numbers are inline, you could live comfortably on 40K a month,

unfortunately many of us are still consumers, and that takes money.

[Heng]

Family expenses for both expats and locals sending their kids to international school and then study abroad will blow that 40k Baht budget real quick.

It's all relative.

[The Skipper]

Monthly expenses:

Rent, 23,000

Elec/water/ internet 3,500

Food 20,000

Transport 6,000

Entertainment 30,000, beer, pool, vitamin-P

Shopping, dvd, hi fi, computer, clothing, furniture.. 25,000.

Tips, gifts etc, 4,000.

[markuk]

Sorry in group 2-3 and spend as follows, could never live of your budget unless i really had to - would not put myself in that situation. That said i am aware that i spend too much.......

Rent/Electricity/Water

75000 Baht

5000 baht (total is 10k but it's shared between me and the wifey)

Transportation (BTS, Bus, Taxis, boat, etc.)

17000 Baht Car rental

1500 baht

Groceries (mostly chicken, toiletries, noodles, rice, spices, sauces, milk, juice)

10-15000 baht

4000 baht

Beer (Average about 2 bottles a day for 27 days of the month)

20-25000 baht

2200 baht

Phone and Internet

2500 baht

3000 baht

plus flights / medical etc etc

Cheers

[Totster]

Jesus.. !! This has been done to death already..

totster

[OlRedEyes]

I've been in both groups here (luckily going in the right direction).

Been pretty comfortable in both scenarios. Suppose it's about figuring out what you really need to be comfortable, and prioritising. If you're an incurable consumer, well you'd better be in gr2 or higher.... I think if you need to buy or throw money around too much, you probably haven't quite figured out what you need to make yourself happy yet...

[PeaceBlondie]

Trying to resist the temptation to list my own expenses, which have fluctated greatly in three years here. I started in CMai saying I could live on a teacher's salary of 25K. Then I only received ten months' salary in my first 12 months of working; my visa run home cost almost 100K, and my entertainment costs went up and up, way above 20K monthly. And the first year, buying a good bike and CD's and furniture and clothes was about 90K.

And while we're adding up, how about the scams and the special costs? Let's see: the coworker who didn't repay 13K. The boyfriend's salary/support. The rent deposit you didn't get back (I got mine). The motosai wreck - my wrecks have only cost 70K so far, but will cost another 350K, due to a **** visa run I shouldn't have had to make.

It isn't just a matter of "how long is a piece of string?" It's also, who cut the string, who wound the string around their neck in a noose, who stole the string.

[RamdomChances]

I spend over 20,000 a month on hay

[OlRedEyes]

I spend over 20,000 a month on hay

Suffering from 'hay-fever'?

[Thaiquila]

Yep, PB, sheit happens in any country, including (especially?) Thailand. A cash cushion for contingencies is probably as vital as drinking water.

[jdinasia]

easy answer ....

Q. "how much is 'enough'?"

A. "More than I make!"

or

A. "less than I make, but I am sure greatful for the cushion"

Threads like this have some people listing outrageous claims .... ...

and threads like "How much does it to take to survive comfortably?" really depend on so many variables that they are not quite doable in the general forum.

However.

"How much does it take to survive comfortably in Patong if I don't want a regular GF and have to make Visa runs 1x a month and want to fly .. and I want to spend 2 nights a week out at the bars and one day a week golfing and another scuba-diving?"

MIGHT work

[Gary A]

I would be the first to admit that being on a budget here would take a lot of enjoyment out of my lifestyle. That said I do what I want and buy what I want. I DON'T pack money down rat holes and when I make a trip a city I am not a bell ringer. Probably about the only money I actually waste is having a second vehicle. No way I would need that because nearly everything we need to buy is near us and the wife could ride the motorcycle. When it is raining I could drive her to the market. Unfortunately the wife is not the best driver and I refuse to take a chance and allow her to drive my vehicle. If she were to have an accident with mine I would have nothing except the motorcycle and that wouldn't suit me at all.

Since we pay no rent, (Condo and up country house paid for) we get by on a remarkably small amount of money. My wife buys no makeup and doesn't own even a tube of lipstick. She doesn't own a dress and buys her clothes from the small local markets. My uniform of the day is shorts and a "T" shirt. I give my wife 20,000 baht a month. She pays for all the food and utilities including my Ipstar Internet and UBC TV. She has money left over and is able to put about 5,000 baht of that 20,000 in her bank account. I pay the yearly insurance premiums that total about 60,000 baht per year for both cars and health insurance. She does NOT pay for my several trips a week to my favorite watering hole nor does she pay for the rare trips to Jomtien or Bangkok.

Could I spend more? Sure but I already live the way I want to so why should I. We discussed building a new house and my wife asks "WHY? It would be bigger and more work for me to clean". Some of my friends like five star hotels. I don't! I don't like the massive marble lobby and having bell boys fighting over my luggage. (Shorts and "T" shirts don't need a very big bag) A small clean comfortable room suits me just fine. I'm happier drinking in a small friendly bar. I'm simply not comfortable in fancy joints.

I wear long pants and a shirt with a collar when I go to immigration, don't own a suit or a tie. I wore a suit and a tie for many years of my working life. There are a number of well dressed Vietnam veterans in California now because anything that looked stuffy or uncomfortable was given to a vet group. That's me and my lifestyle and I DON'T have to apologize to anyone for my lifestyle. If a situation calls for me to dress up I don't go. I no longer HAVE to do anything.

[bendix]

My monthly costs:

Rent 60,000 (a lot, yes, but that's my choice)

Electricity, water, internet, ubc, landline, mobile etc c8,000

maid 4500

Taxis, BTS, MRT 4,000

Groceries 5,000

Restaurant meals, lunches at work etc 15,000

Going out 15,000

weekends away (hua hin, CM, wherever, including transport, golf, hotels) 20,000

luxuries (books, golf stuff, magazines, treats, presents) 10,000

odds and ends (eg, GF's university costs etc, dry cleaning etc, clothes) 10,000

Savings 200,000

Financial elite, according to greenwanderer. I don't know. I can't complain.

[kkf123]

If you are saving $250 USD/month, then I guess you can plan on retirement around the time of your death!

If you are just in Thailand for a few years to escape the grind back home, and arent trying to save money, then good on you.

Or perhaps, you dont mind retiring early.

Also, some people are more interested in location. If you rent a house outside Bangkok, then its cheaper. So you people caliming 5,000 baht rents - you get what you pay for.

I myself rent a studio in a great location and pay 10K baht/month. I do however realize that after a year, I am beginning to hate having such a small living space, but what does it matter in this Concrete hel_l of a City?

Which brings up another point - I go on vacation every 6 weeks to somewhere in Thailand, and I make my visa runs in Singapore. Now again, you save by taking 15 hour trains that feel like Tuk Tuks - but in the end, you get what you pay for.

[kkf123]

Dont forget about your plan ticket home. God forbid that you fly business class. Round Trip is what 250,000 Baht. Would put a dent in your yearly salary!

I am not sure why you would be so angry when people question your salary. if you are happy then who gives a ###### what others think?

[greenwanderer108]

Dont forget about your plan ticket home. God forbid that you fly business class. Round Trip is what 250,000 Baht. Would put a dent in your yearly salary!

I am not sure why you would be so angry when people question your salary. if you are happy then who gives a ###### what others think?

250,000 baht for a round trip plane ticket home??? I assume you've included all the expenses in that for a full out month vacation in that figure...

Last time, I went home in 2003, I saved 80 percent of my last two months salary (20,000/month at that time in Phetchburi) and made it back to Colorado without too much struggle.

24,000 baht round trip BKK-LAX (which is still possible now with the latest promotions) 80 USD one way domestic to DEN...And I still had a few hundred bucks left for to me to make the transition.

Anyhow, after a few weeks ended up getting a gig at 7-11 down the street from my friend's pad where I stayed (carrying my weight, paying my share)...and I still got the coolest old style green zip up seven eleven shirt/uniform that no one around has but wants! The idea of going back to the states for four months was to see my family and save some extra bucks...What I made in the short time and what I spent getting there, it would have been just the same had I not left Thailand. But atleast I got to to cure the minor case of Home Sickness I was having then----when I got there, I got even a worse case of Home Sickness for Thailand. Glad to be back, never had dreams of home since...and can assure it will be a long time before I get sick for the states again!

Let me tell you...anyone who's been here for a few years and plan to go back home for a short period just to save up some bucks to return to Thailand in the money, it won't be worth it unless you go back and work for atleast a year or two...Just thinking about a full year or two back in the states makes my gut tremble...but everyone to their own.

I realize that everyone's case is different. Some of you are twice---three times my age with families and offspring that you left back in Farangland, coming to Thailand to get away from it all...but still have those perpetual obligations...

As for me, I've got my own obligations, right here in Thailand

[Doza]

If you are saving $250 USD/month, then I guess you can plan on retirement around the time of your death!

Exactly!

The OP seems to wonder where the money goes but is only really focused in subsistance living. What about a mortgage back home to pay? Money towards retirement plan/pension, saving for future kids' education, holiday abroad or even home - sure you might make it there and back on 25K but you gotta eat and have fun while you're there. What about a weekend at the Hong Kong 7s for example which just came and went - you can easily blow 20K??? Maybe you might be studying (MBA) part time and gotta pay for that, car payments, nights out even - try going out on the lash proper with business colleagues or even visiting friends for under 4K and that's just one night of the month...

I'm not saying I do all this but there are more things for me to consider than simply how much money can I just live on and the OP seems surprised that people might actually consider those financial obligations. I just can't escape the payments for house / car, retirement and future costs of family.

[greenwanderer108]

If you are saving $250 USD/month, then I guess you can plan on retirement around the time of your death!

It all depends on one's definition of 'retirement'

If it's a fat pension from some international company----that you had to slave 30-40 years neglecting a family emotionally, medicare, security packages, people who stay near you because they are dependent on your security and material providings....

everyone to their own...

But I beg to differ and I'll give an example of how someone in group one might be better off than someone in group two...Let's use two Americans in this scenerio. Twin brothers, Sed and Ned. Sed and Ned are both 20 years old.

Sed believes that he must slave and suffer his youth years for the pay off when he's old...i.e. retirement.

Ned wants to live his life now and take it day by day. So he buys a one way ticket to S.E. Asia. Lands in Thailand, does the whole bagpackers deal. Soon, his one year of work savings is almost expired. He can either go back home or continue his life in Thailand, which he has come to love. He decides to take a teaching certificate course and find a job in Thailand.

Meanwhile back in Hickfolkville, Sed takes out some student loans, gets a few part time jobs, and continues his B.A., a typical poor student supporting himself. Sed falls head over heals for a classmate, 165 pound Betsy. She's a lot skinnier than the other girls, and in her highschool picture, she looked real hot.

Soon after Sed and Betsy graduate, Betsy, who has put on 20 lbs, has an announcement. She's pregnant! Sed gets a job with an international firm that offers all the benefits and retirement plans Sed had hoped for...Betsy soon goes back to the work force, sending little Joey to daycare so that mom and dad can provide a 'better life'

Back in Thailand, Ned is living with his beautiful Thai girlfriend, June in their 7000 baht a month apartment in Bangkok. She just finished University, and is working reception at some hotel. After a few years teaching in Thailand, Ned's standard of living has changed from the bagpacker's lifestyle to the expat's. He now eats local food much more frequent, and since June is such a great cook, they eat at home most of the time.

Soon, June becomes pregnant too. Ned is so excited and applies for a teaching position upcountry for the same salary. After 5 years of saving 10,000 baht a month, they have enough to put down on a house (in her name ofcourse). They find a house and end up paying 7000 baht a month for a 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom house, lots of open space, near the local school, what more could he ask for? After all their living expenses, they still have 60 percent of their salary to worry about their child's education, medical, insurance, and other essential expenses.

Sed's family is able to save thousands of dollars per year on top of all the future benefits. He's on top of his career, as so is Betsy...She's huge by now, but a powerful woman nevertheless. Little Joey is in the best private school in town...After school, he goes to the after school program, which after that he goes to some other babysitter, for mom and dad are working so late to bring home 'a better life'.

Life goes on. After 20 years, Sed's wealth has increased 10 fold. Ned's has only increased two fold. Sed decides to visit his brother in Thailand on a 'business trip'. Sed is instantly hooked on Thailand. He leaves his family in the states and takes an early retirement in Pattaya with his new mistress, Noy from Buriram. He pays everyone around him to do everything he wants his way...He's in control, money talks, he gets what he wants. Thailand is great he thinks. Soon, Sed finds himself in the situation supporting Noy's kids, Noy's three sisters and their kids, but what the hey, he's livin it up. He controlls them, he's got the money/power...

Ned's got everything he needs...A huge house, 4 kids growing up. A loyal wife...A few mistresses on the side. After 10 years of teaching, he finally had enough money and credit to take out a loan and start a small family tour business with June, as the country side has boomed with tourism the past decade....

Anyway, the point here is that Group Number ones like Ned aren't doomed by any standards. Group Twos like Sed may have the money, pension, and buying power to buy love and security when they're too old to provide it for themselves anymore...but Group One's may just have a quicker headstart as Poo yais where they have the love and care of family and culture to take care of them when their old...after all that is the sytem in Asia here.

[greenwanderer108]

I just can't escape the payments for house / car, retirement and future costs of family.

Are you in control of your materials or are your materials in control of you?

From your choice of verb, I'd say you're locked down. There is a way out to escape all your troubles and materials...Where there are several ways, but I can assure you winning the lottery is not one of them...

Edited April 4, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[PeaceBlondie]

it also depends where you are in your life cycle, what your priorities are, what your options are.

[Doza]

Yeah good one, why not go to the extremes of cliches for both sides to reinforce your argument? Anyone could do that and if I had the time I would write a similar one about the guy who went to uni back home, got a great job, paid off his debt, drives a BMW, manages a firm so has flexible holidays and hours, plays golf every wednesday afternoon, married a model, spend long weekends on his friend's yacht etc etc etc...while the other guy is slaving away in Thailand, living in a one room 'apartment' with a Thai chick whose family bleeds him dry, spends his days in conversations like, "you go eat now?" "me now want", spends his holidays in Kanchanaburi and his evenings drinking Chang outside 7/11 with his 'buddies', get's old quickly, no savings, works till he's dead blah blah blah.

Doesn't work.

slave and suffer his youth years

What makes you think having a good job is all slave and suffer? I love this stereotype! Ever heard of good job, good pay, good life?