Egypt crisis: Interim president sworn in after Morsi ousted

[iancnx]

Ok, i will try again and slow.

The only way the region works is when its under the dictatorship, because otherwise it breaks out into a mess that we see now.

Yes i believe Mubarack was good for Egypt, you have witnessed what happened to a freely elected president and all the rest

So you don't support the little boy who will tell you all about Mubarak's Egypt. Mubarak was removed for very good reason. So why did you post the you tube link?

As for dictatorship. Of course, free thinking people and those who have learnt histories lessons know very well that a dictatorship does not work for the oppressed. Domestic supporters (usually a minority) of a dictatorship are the ones who profit from the misery of their oppressed brothers and sisters, and international sponsors of dictatorship are the ones that profit in dollars and cents.

As I intimated earlier on in the thread, there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. The geopolitical factors including the undisputed struggle within Islam all have a hand in the Egyptian debacle which extends back to Suez and beyond.

The little boy in the video wants change with a new constitution for the Egyptian people that takes care of the Egyptian people without being undermined by international actors or islamist fundamentalists.

I posted the link for people like you to watch and then come to their own conclusions.

Uuuuhuh. That is clear now. Thanks for the clarity. LMAO at you!

[antfish]

The video link is not working, at least not at this time.

Let's please keep the discussion civil.

Try again, it works here for me

Link again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I#at=108

works also for me. I am in Thailand using normal internet connection without any proxies or vpn.

[lemoncake]

Ok, i will try again and slow.

The only way the region works is when its under the dictatorship, because otherwise it breaks out into a mess that we see now.

Yes i believe Mubarack was good for Egypt, you have witnessed what happened to a freely elected president and all the rest

So you don't support the little boy who will tell you all about Mubarak's Egypt. Mubarak was removed for very good reason. So why did you post the you tube link?

As for dictatorship. Of course, free thinking people and those who have learnt histories lessons know very well that a dictatorship does not work for the oppressed. Domestic supporters (usually a minority) of a dictatorship are the ones who profit from the misery of their oppressed brothers and sisters, and international sponsors of dictatorship are the ones that profit in dollars and cents.

As I intimated earlier on in the thread, there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. The geopolitical factors including the undisputed struggle within Islam all have a hand in the Egyptian debacle which extends back to Suez and beyond.

The little boy in the video wants change with a new constitution for the Egyptian people that takes care of the Egyptian people without being undermined by international actors or islamist fundamentalists.

I posted the link for people like you to watch and then come to their own conclusions.

Uuuuhuh. That is clear now. Thanks for the clarity. LMAO at you!

[Steely Dan]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

[snarky66]

you will never learn how democracy works if you think its okay to start a coup if you don't like the election outcome and the economy is currently not so bright.

100% wrong. Sadly you haven't done your homework on this story.

Last fall Morsi declared himself to be "above the law" and that was his downfall.

[folium]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

Oh Lordy it's Brothers under the bed again....

Dealing with unpleasant people and understanding that this is required to achieve a political settlement, are the basic components of a workable outcome.

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and other prominent Israeli politicians were convicted terrorists with blood on their hands. Adams & McGuinness in N.Ireland were no vestal virgins and Nelson Mandela plead guilty to terrorist charges. Any workable deal in Afghanistan will have to include the Taiban, and in Egypt a political solution will need the involvement of the MB. All the players mentioned above could be/could have been excluded based on their track records but all have or will play a part in the end game.

Work with what you have got, put the past behind you and focus on the longer term objectives. Unless of course you want to see armed conflict and instability.

[iancnx]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

Oh Lordy it's Brothers under the bed again....

Dealing with unpleasant people and understanding that this is required to achieve a political settlement, are the basic components of a workable outcome.

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and other prominent Israeli politicians were convicted terrorists with blood on their hands. Adams & McGuinness in N.Ireland were no vestal virgins and Nelson Mandela plead guilty to terrorist charges. Any workable deal in Afghanistan will have to include the Taiban, and in Egypt a political solution will need the involvement of the MB. All the players mentioned above could be/could have been excluded based on their track records but all have or will play a part in the end game.

Work with what you have got, put the past behind you and focus on the longer term objectives. Unless of course you want to see armed conflict and instability.

I agree with some of that. There is an inevitability that to get long term stability from dictatorship, anarchy and strife anywhere in the world you have to make 'deals' or succumb to assassination, and then wait for at least one generation to forgive but never forget. Egypt's political strife is not going to go away any time soon no matter who is stirring the soup. This particular crisis may well pale into insignificance if/when Arab national boundaries are breeched.

[Ulysses G.]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

Oh Lordy it's Brothers under the bed again....

Before Osama bin Laden formed al Qaeda, he belonged to the Muslim Brotherhood. So did his top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Also, the terrorist group Hamas identifies itself as the Muslim Brotherhood's Palestinian branch. The Muslim Brotherhood are never going to a trustworthy ally.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts have been deleted as well as replies. Stick to the topic please, and the topic is not Obama or US foreign policy etc..

Please stop making personal remarks to other posters. When you do, it is your ignorance that is showing; not theirs.

[Steely Dan]

A couple of observations. First, had that 12 year old Egyptian boy in the video posted been white and middle aged accusations of bigotry and Islamophobia would have ensued. Second, draw a Venn diagram with three circles, democracy, theocracy and autocracy. There would be a large intersection between theocracy and autocracy, both have no human rights, both have sham elections, both persecute sections of their population based on various factors and never relinquish power unless forced, sham elections being the norm. Democracy respects human rights, equal access to the law has fair elections and a constitution to safeguard democracy. Viewed as such the Muslim brotherhood are theocratic totalitarians, they are incompatible with democracy, in other words not a part of democracy in the diagram, this fact seems to have eluded western democracies. Allowing elections prematurely has sadly seen to give them a legitimate complaint. Ataturk showed the way to go from autocracy to democracy was best achieved by establishing a secular constitution with safeguards to keep religion out of politics, only then did he allow democracy to take root.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Steely Dan

[Steely Dan]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

Oh Lordy it's Brothers under the bed again....

Dealing with unpleasant people and understanding that this is required to achieve a political settlement, are the basic components of a workable outcome.

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and other prominent Israeli politicians were convicted terrorists with blood on their hands. Adams & McGuinness in N.Ireland were no vestal virgins and Nelson Mandela plead guilty to terrorist charges. Any workable deal in Afghanistan will have to include the Taiban, and in Egypt a political solution will need the involvement of the MB. All the players mentioned above could be/could have been excluded based on their track records but all have or will play a part in the end game.

Work with what you have got, put the past behind you and focus on the longer term objectives. Unless of course you want to see armed conflict and instability.

You are tying yourself in pretzels contradicting yourself in your hunger to respond to my posts. First you are agast at my comparison between Egypt and Algeria, where in both cases the army intervened to thwart Islamist governments. Then you contrive to bring up your old canard of the IRA and Zionist militia in order to try and argue that negotiation with undesirables is necessary. Neither of your examples is remotely applicable as they were nationalist ideologies not a religions pan-national ideology. Still any old tenuous analogy will suffice as long as you are making it.

Alas the damage was done when the MB were first elected. they would have rigged matters so there would be no new election. just as Iran did if left to their own devices, now their ouster makes a huge amount of bloodletting sadly inevitable a la Algeria. It would have happened anyway, but events have dictated it happens sooner rather than later. Shame on our naive politicians for rubber stamping such an ill conceived event as the Arab spring.

[folium]

Here is a piece opining that the joker left in the Muslim Brotherhood's hand is president Obama. Remember it was Obama who insisted the MB attend his Cairo speech in 2009 and James Clapper, director of national intelligence ( ) who stated the MB were largely secular. Counting Libya, Tunisia and soon perhaps Syria U.S policy may have a lot invested in the MB, which they may be loathe to see come to nothing.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/baracks-plan-b-for-the-brotherhood/

Tahrir Square may have filled up with fireworks after Morsi’s fall, but it’s far too early to count the Muslim Brotherhood out of the game. Not when its best asset is still in the White House.

Oh Lordy it's Brothers under the bed again....

Dealing with unpleasant people and understanding that this is required to achieve a political settlement, are the basic components of a workable outcome.

Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and other prominent Israeli politicians were convicted terrorists with blood on their hands. Adams & McGuinness in N.Ireland were no vestal virgins and Nelson Mandela plead guilty to terrorist charges. Any workable deal in Afghanistan will have to include the Taiban, and in Egypt a political solution will need the involvement of the MB. All the players mentioned above could be/could have been excluded based on their track records but all have or will play a part in the end game.

Work with what you have got, put the past behind you and focus on the longer term objectives. Unless of course you want to see armed conflict and instability.

You are tying yourself in pretzels contradicting yourself in your hunger to respond to my posts. First you are agast at my comparison between Egypt and Algeria, where in both cases the army intervened to thwart Islamist governments. Then you contrive to bring up your old canard of the IRA and Zionist militia in order to try and argue that negotiation with undesirables is necessary. Neither of your examples is remotely applicable as they were nationalist ideologies not a religions pan-national ideology. Still any old tenuous analogy will suffice as long as you are making it.

Alas the damage was done when the MB were first elected. they would have rigged matters so there would be no new election. just as Iran did if left to their own devices, now their ouster makes a huge amount of bloodletting sadly inevitable a la Algeria. It would have happened anyway, but events have dictated it happens sooner rather than later. Shame on our naive politicians for rubber stamping such an ill conceived event as the Arab spring.

As ever you flatter yourself and your opinions. Someone has to I suppose...

Your attempted analogy between Algeria and Egypt is superficial to the point of triteness, but you seem to have some phobia re historical context. Obviously does not fit the agenda.

Anyone interested in reaching a political settlement has to grasp the nettle of having to deal with unpleasant types. Obviously for those more interested in formenting a Clash of Civilizations the last thing they want is any negotiated settlement as that gets in the way of a good bloodbath impacting the sons and daughters of other, less important, folk.

Notice you missed the mention of Mandela, but actually he does represent a more nationalistic viewpoint or at least take on the African struggle compared to the PAC. Pan-Africanism, as advocated by Nkrumah, Garvey, Malcolm X, and more opportunistically, Qaddafi, has many similarities to the alleged beyond- natonal concept of your favourite religion's extremists. But just as Pan-Africanism has foundered on the rock of national agendas and differences, so will any attempt at trans-national Islamism, as it already has. Your beloved Gates of Vienna scenario (whether that be 1529 or 1683) has far more to do with Ottoman Empire-building than the advance of Islam, but again heaven forbid history muddies the agenda's waters.

Religion has always been a handy cloak for national aspirations, whether it be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Hindu. Even mass murder in the name of religion have far more local and nationalistic objectives, be it a Deir Yassin, Srebrenica, London/York in the 11th century, the treatment of Rohingyas in Burma & Thailand. Pogroms are brutally local/national events disguised under the mantle of pan-national religious views. Unconvincing today as it has always been, fixating on pan-national elements is largely irrelevant compared to national priorities. The solution to Egypt's woes is a national issue and one that will only be resolved by the participation of the vast majority of the interested parties. There will always be some outlying elements eg Continuity IRA but a genuine solution requires a holding of breah and a suspension of historic mistrust. Such are the elements of any long term political solution.

[Publicus]

There's Growing Evidence Of A Vast Conspiracy To Undermine Former Egypt President Morsi

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-growing-evidence-of-a-vast-conspiracy-to-undermine-former-egypt-president-morsi-2013-7#ixzz2YwQsBBrk

In many ways Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi made his own end, but in a lot of others, everyone from young rebels to police to the military to even the people running the oil supply conspired to degrade and ultimately overthrow Morsi.

The latest evidence is the sudden end to Egypt's crippling energy shortages, as reported by Ben Hubbard and David D. Kirkpatrick in the New York Times:

The Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi’s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.

“This was preparing for the coup,” said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. “Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.”

“The country’s institutions—the police, the Army, the judges—were clear from their messages in the media that they were in favor of getting rid of [Morsi]," Moheb Doss, one of Tamarod’s co-founders and main organizers, told The Beast. Then they received “individual communications between Tamarod people and state institutions.”

Finally there was the funding, both internally and externally

.

The Times details how former judge Tahani el-Gebali, former adviser Shawki al-Sayed, and Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood, all pitched in cash and organizing efforts to wear at the base of the Morsi regime.

And just this week, an Al Jazeera exclusive from Emad Mekay exposed how Washington had funneled money to secular opposition groups in Egypt:

In that way, Morsi made his own end. Now he has no choice but to own it, conspiracy or not.

Sounds like a plan to me, and good riddance.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Publicus

[iancnx]

There's Growing Evidence Of A Vast Conspiracy To Undermine Former Egypt President Morsi

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-growing-evidence-of-a-vast-conspiracy-to-undermine-former-egypt-president-morsi-2013-7#ixzz2YwQsBBrk

In many ways Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi made his own end, but in a lot of others, everyone from young rebels to police to the military to even the people running the oil supply conspired to degrade and ultimately overthrow Morsi.

The latest evidence is the sudden end to Egypt's crippling energy shortages, as reported by Ben Hubbard and David D. Kirkpatrick in the New York Times:

The Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi’s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.

“This was preparing for the coup,” said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. “Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.”

“The country’s institutions—the police, the Army, the judges—were clear from their messages in the media that they were in favor of getting rid of [Morsi]," Moheb Doss, one of Tamarod’s co-founders and main organizers, told The Beast. Then they received “individual communications between Tamarod people and state institutions.”

Finally there was the funding, both internally and externally

.

The Times details how former judge Tahani el-Gebali, former adviser Shawki al-Sayed, and Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood, all pitched in cash and organizing efforts to wear at the base of the Morsi regime.

And just this week, an Al Jazeera exclusive from Emad Mekay exposed how Washington had funneled money to secular opposition groups in Egypt:

In that way, Morsi made his own end. Now he has no choice but to own it, conspiracy or not.

Sounds like a plan to me, and good riddance.

Yup!

[Steely Dan]

There's Growing Evidence Of A Vast Conspiracy To Undermine Former Egypt President Morsi

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-growing-evidence-of-a-vast-conspiracy-to-undermine-former-egypt-president-morsi-2013-7#ixzz2YwQsBBrk

In many ways Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi made his own end, but in a lot of others, everyone from young rebels to police to the military to even the people running the oil supply conspired to degrade and ultimately overthrow Morsi.

The latest evidence is the sudden end to Egypt's crippling energy shortages, as reported by Ben Hubbard and David D. Kirkpatrick in the New York Times:

The Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi’s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.

“This was preparing for the coup,” said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. “Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.”

“The country’s institutions—the police, the Army, the judges—were clear from their messages in the media that they were in favor of getting rid of [Morsi]," Moheb Doss, one of Tamarod’s co-founders and main organizers, told The Beast. Then they received “individual communications between Tamarod people and state institutions.”

Finally there was the funding, both internally and externally

.

The Times details how former judge Tahani el-Gebali, former adviser Shawki al-Sayed, and Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood, all pitched in cash and organizing efforts to wear at the base of the Morsi regime.

And just this week, an Al Jazeera exclusive from Emad Mekay exposed how Washington had funneled money to secular opposition groups in Egypt:

In that way, Morsi made his own end. Now he has no choice but to own it, conspiracy or not.

Sounds like a plan to me, and good riddance.

Were you aware that 22 Al Jazeera journalists resigned en bloc to protest at the pro-Muslim brotherhood bias of the channel, including specific instructions to mislead if it painted the brotherhood in a good light.

As for energy supply problems fixed I read the Saudis have handed over billions of dollars to Egypt already as if to head off any financial pressure that the U.S may put on Egypt.

Finally the army has been given the go ahead by Israel to rid Sinai of it's Islamist pest holes and surprise surprise the Brotherhoods allies Hamas and Syrian rebels have been attacking Egyptian army positions illustrating a pan-national movement rather than a national one.

P.S As I predicted the MB appointees within Washington would be foot to the metal to rescue the mother ship.

http://www.debka.com/article/23118/Washington%E2%80%99s-push-against-Egyptian-Israeli-go-it-alone-military-steps-US-marines-deployed-off-Suez-Sinai

Edited July 14, 2013 by Steely Dan

[Scott]

An off-topic video post and replies deleted.

[JetsetBkk]

Were you aware that 22 Al Jazeera journalists resigned en bloc to protest at the pro-Muslim brotherhood bias of the channel, including specific instructions to mislead if it painted the brotherhood in a good light.

<snip>

Amazing. I've been sick of the general pro-Muslim bias of Aljazeera since the Gaza-Israel conflict last year.

Edit: typo.

Edited July 15, 2013 by JetsetBkk

[jamhar]

There's Growing Evidence Of A Vast Conspiracy To Undermine Former Egypt President Morsi

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-growing-evidence-of-a-vast-conspiracy-to-undermine-former-egypt-president-morsi-2013-7#ixzz2YwQsBBrk

In many ways Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi made his own end, but in a lot of others, everyone from young rebels to police to the military to even the people running the oil supply conspired to degrade and ultimately overthrow Morsi.

The latest evidence is the sudden end to Egypt's crippling energy shortages, as reported by Ben Hubbard and David D. Kirkpatrick in the New York Times:

The Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi’s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.

“This was preparing for the coup,” said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. “Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.”

“The country’s institutions—the police, the Army, the judges—were clear from their messages in the media that they were in favor of getting rid of [Morsi]," Moheb Doss, one of Tamarod’s co-founders and main organizers, told The Beast. Then they received “individual communications between Tamarod people and state institutions.”

Finally there was the funding, both internally and externally

.

The Times details how former judge Tahani el-Gebali, former adviser Shawki al-Sayed, and Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood, all pitched in cash and organizing efforts to wear at the base of the Morsi regime.

And just this week, an Al Jazeera exclusive from Emad Mekay exposed how Washington had funneled money to secular opposition groups in Egypt:

In that way, Morsi made his own end. Now he has no choice but to own it, conspiracy or not.

Sounds like a plan to me, and good riddance.

I dont think a conspiracy against Morsi was necessary to have the same effect.

The US would have a hard time supporting Morsi with much enthusiasm. Support, yes, with enthusiasm? no. And the rich gulf states was concerned by a Egyptian government dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. So it wasnt Morsi, but the Muslim Brotherhood that was the real issue. And the nations may not have "conspired" against the Brotherhood, they just disliked them and distrusted them individually.

I did notice that the UAE, SA, and Kuwait pledged $12B in aid soon after the "deposement" (cant use the "c" word).

and UAE recently sent $200M in crude oil/diesel to egypt a few days ago. thats in addition to the US pledge of continued $1.5B/year aid.

The message to the others from the rich gulf countries is

Moderate position will be rewarded,

An islamic position will not.

As far as I'm concerned, This is a good thing.

Conspiracy? could be, but I dont think it was even necessary.

IMO, Egypt is lucky its military stepped in to avoid what happened in Syria.

And the rich neighboring countries welcomed the change and wanted to show it.

Lets hope Egypt stays lucky. Its still a dicey situation over there.

Just my 2 cents

Edited July 15, 2013 by jamhar

[simple1]

There's Growing Evidence Of A Vast Conspiracy To Undermine Former Egypt President Morsi

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/theres-growing-evidence-of-a-vast-conspiracy-to-undermine-former-egypt-president-morsi-2013-7#ixzz2YwQsBBrk

In many ways Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi made his own end, but in a lot of others, everyone from young rebels to police to the military to even the people running the oil supply conspired to degrade and ultimately overthrow Morsi.

The latest evidence is the sudden end to Egypt's crippling energy shortages, as reported by Ben Hubbard and David D. Kirkpatrick in the New York Times:

The Muslim Brotherhood and Mr. Morsi’s supporters say the sudden turnaround proves that their opponents conspired to make Mr. Morsi fail. Not only did police officers seem to disappear, but the state agencies responsible for providing electricity and ensuring gas supplies failed so fundamentally that gas lines and rolling blackouts fed widespread anger and frustration.

“This was preparing for the coup,” said Naser el-Farash, who served as the spokesman for the Ministry of Supply and Internal Trade under Mr. Morsi. “Different circles in the state, from the storage facilities to the cars that transport petrol products to the gas stations, all participated in creating the crisis.”

“The country’s institutions—the police, the Army, the judges—were clear from their messages in the media that they were in favor of getting rid of [Morsi]," Moheb Doss, one of Tamarod’s co-founders and main organizers, told The Beast. Then they received “individual communications between Tamarod people and state institutions.”

Finally there was the funding, both internally and externally

.

The Times details how former judge Tahani el-Gebali, former adviser Shawki al-Sayed, and Naguib Sawiris, a billionaire and an outspoken foe of the Brotherhood, all pitched in cash and organizing efforts to wear at the base of the Morsi regime.

And just this week, an Al Jazeera exclusive from Emad Mekay exposed how Washington had funneled money to secular opposition groups in Egypt:

In that way, Morsi made his own end. Now he has no choice but to own it, conspiracy or not.

Sounds like a plan to me, and good riddance.

I dont think a conspiracy against Morsi was necessary to have the same effect.

The US would have a hard time supporting Morsi with much enthusiasm. Support, yes, with enthusiasm? no. And the rich gulf states was concerned by a Egyptian government dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. So it wasnt Morsi, but the Muslim Brotherhood that was the real issue. And the nations may not have "conspired" against the Brotherhood, they just disliked them and distrusted them individually.

I did notice that the UAE, SA, and Kuwait pledged $12B in aid soon after the "deposement" (cant use the "c" word).

and UAE recently sent $200M in crude oil/diesel to egypt a few days ago. thats in addition to the US pledge of continued $1.5B/year aid.

The message to the others from the rich gulf countries is

Moderate position will be rewarded,

An islamic position will not.

As far as I'm concerned, This is a good thing.

Conspiracy? could be, but I dont think it was even necessary.

IMO, Egypt is lucky its military stepped in to avoid what happened in Syria.

And the rich neighboring countries welcomed the change and wanted to show it.

Lets hope Egypt stays lucky. Its still a dicey situation over there.

Just my 2 cents

Nah, all the countries you refer to are dictatorships. They just don't want a competing Islamic political ideology, having power and influence as a neighbour. e.g. Saudi Arabia had a vested interest in seeing a rival Islamist party fail, sending a strong message to the local constituency sympathetic to the cause of the Muslim Brotherhood. It may take time before the message is forgotten, but today, it is a moment of joy for the Saudi regime.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/07/saudi-arabia-glad-to-see-morsi-go.html#ixzz2Z7fSoQVR

[jamhar]

I dont think a conspiracy against Morsi was necessary to have the same effect.

The US would have a hard time supporting Morsi with much enthusiasm. Support, yes, with enthusiasm? no. And the rich gulf states was concerned by a Egyptian government dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. So it wasnt Morsi, but the Muslim Brotherhood that was the real issue. And the nations may not have "conspired" against the Brotherhood, they just disliked them and distrusted them individually.

I did notice that the UAE, SA, and Kuwait pledged $12B in aid soon after the "deposement" (cant use the "c" word).

and UAE recently sent $200M in crude oil/diesel to egypt a few days ago. thats in addition to the US pledge of continued $1.5B/year aid.

The message to the others from the rich gulf countries is

Moderate position will be rewarded,

An islamic position will not.

As far as I'm concerned, This is a good thing.

Conspiracy? could be, but I dont think it was even necessary.

IMO, Egypt is lucky its military stepped in to avoid what happened in Syria.

And the rich neighboring countries welcomed the change and wanted to show it.

Lets hope Egypt stays lucky. Its still a dicey situation over there.

Just my 2 cents

Nah, all the countries you refer to are dictatorships. They just don't want a competing Islamic political ideology, having power and influence as a neighbour. e.g. Saudi Arabia had a vested interest in seeing a rival Islamist party fail, sending a strong message to the local constituency sympathetic to the cause of the Muslim Brotherhood. It may take time before the message is forgotten, but today, it is a moment of joy for the Saudi regime.

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/07/saudi-arabia-glad-to-see-morsi-go.html#ixzz2Z7fSoQVR

I dont disagree, but how many gulf states arent dictatorships? and i dont disagree that all those countries were pleased/relieved at the change in government.

My main point is if there was a conspiracy to effect a change.

I see it as governments choosing not to support other governments that are not friendly with you. And supporting those that are.

And on the same thought, I welcome the wealthy gulf states taking an active part in their region

For too long, they have let the others carry the weight.

I for one, have no problems with it.

Edited July 15, 2013 by jamhar

[midas]

If they feel this strongly why on earth does the USA keep giving them aid money?

Anti-U.S. Hostility Ramps Up in Egypt

Media Outlets Blast American Policies, Further Straining Ties

A headline in a major Egyptian state newspaper this week referred to the proposed U.S. envoy to Egypt as the "Ambassador of Death." Posters in Cairo's Tahrir Square, a center of pro-government rallies, depict President Barack Obama with a beard and turban, exclaiming his "support for terrorism."

Egypt's state and privately owned media outlets, already no strangers to demonizing the U.S., have embarked on a particularly critical campaign.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323838204579000830652806204.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

Edited August 9, 2013 by midas

[Publicus]

Erick Stackelbeck talks about his book, The Brotherhood: America’s Next Great Enemy, in which he chronicles the history of the Muslim Brotherhood and the influence it wields in Egypt and across the Middle East today. Mr. Stacklebeck argued that even though Mohamed Morsi, a leading member of the Muslim Brotherhood, was recently ousted as president of Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is still a dangerous group that shouldn’t be taken lightly

This is a book I'm interested to get to read, based on Mr. Stackelbeck's recent presentation to an audience on C-Span.

Stackelbeck is politically on the right but has a balanced view of the Brotherhood, pointing out that only some 20% to 25% of all Muslims believe in Sharia Law, most of them living in the ME. His focus is on the Brotherhood, not on the political left in the West.

Stackelbeck is harder on Prez Obama than I would be, that's for sure, but putting that aside his points about the 85 year history of the organization to the post-Morsi period and forward (if forward is the word) is invaluable to acquire.

Stackelbeck raises the issue, for example, of how a British soldier was decapitated by a Muslim extremist on the streets of Britain itself.

Much recommended.

Book Discussion onThe Brotherhood

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/TheBrot#