A word of warning to buying your thai wife a business.

[aussieexpat1068]

Hi all. I want to firstly identify that is my story and take from it what you will. For those who have been successful, I wish you good luck in your current and future endeavors. In December 2012 I purchased my wife a business to help supplement our income. Due to ill health I have had to make arrangements to return home and as such try and negotiate a release from a premises contract. Whilst normally a leased premises/contract is lawfully bound, at times you can appeal to someones good will and request a release especially when you have found someone to take it over and there are extenuating circumstances. My experience is this. If you do buy a good will business at a leased premises and invest money into it to increase it appeal or customer base, DO NOT, without seeking lawful advice and having a "Release/Get out clause" included. Most documents being in Thailand are written in Thai and here lays the problem. Some will say that I was ignorant in my signing without legal advice, but this post is directed as those who are considering such activities. Whilst my issue now appears to be resolved, do not trust some Thais with their all smiling attitude as when it is put to the test it is basically a case of Som Num Na Farang. Today I seriously consider myself having been lucky in being able to have $17,000 Aus returned to me but please be aware that there will always be some who will have their good will and ignorance played upon. Please also consider that not all Thai's are bad and to make such a statement would be racist and ignorant. All I am suggesting is that as one post suggested to me, " Do not make any financial decision in Thailand that you cannot afford to walk away from". This statement has its merits and quite simply cannot be honestly ignored. Most of us are decent men who are willing to increase our Thai wife's stature but the horror stories you hear are quite often true. Love is one thing but unscrupulous activities applied to money are a plenty. Read as many forum topics as you can and invest sometime in listening to others who have experience in both good and bad dealings in Thailand. For a country I fell in love with over 12 years ago, this latest experience has definitely tarnished and challenged my previous thoughts. Be wary and be smart in any decision you make here. In once sense a country who takes care of its own is a commendable thing but for those who enter and are farang be prepared. Knowledge is power and could end up saving you money.

[alexander69]

Nice story mate,,,,,, we will archive that one

[theblether]

Thanks very much OP for that excellent post.

[rct99q]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

[aussieexpat1068]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

[rookball]

im always amazed how one would enter a business contract without legal advice and research and a proper withdrawal plan and then share about how los is blah blah blah and blah

welcome to the reality, its a dog eat dog world everywhere

Edited July 4, 2013 by rookball

[jbrain]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

So in short, you're promoting common sense.

[breadbin]

The op got $17,000 returned by a Thai?

Me don't think so somehow.

[aussieexpat1068]

The op got $17,000 returned by a Thai?

Me don't think so somehow.

Glad to hear what you think. But yes I did get $17000 Aus returned to me. Thanks for stating the obvious and repeating what I had originally written in my post.

[aussieexpat1068]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

So in short, you're promoting common sense.

Your obviously highly educated on the topic. Maybe you could promote your thoughts to everyone here that's been burn't. I had originally been comfortable with the terms and conditions. Thanks for insulting my fall from well health.

[benalibina]

Different cultures, different morals. Good and bad everywhere.

[aussieexpat1068]

im always amazed how one would enter a business contract without legal advice and research and a proper withdrawal plan and then share about how los is blah blah blah and blah

welcome to the reality, its a dog eat dog world everywhere

blah blah blah. Jing jing. Here is to your good health. We had a clause in in the contract but the Thai owner refused to honor it. With more legal advice we secured the return of our money. Enjoy your next meal!

[Dancealot]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

So in short, you're promoting common sense.

This guy has got the balls to admit his failure and has the decency to share it with us, mates... A little respect would be appropriate here..

Thumbs up for you Aussieexpat1068

Edited July 4, 2013 by Dancealot

[barefoot1988]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

So in short, you're promoting common sense.

Your obviously highly educated on the topic. Maybe you could promote your thoughts to everyone here that's been burn't. I had originally been comfortable with the terms and conditions. Thanks for insulting my fall from well health.

he is right, in a harsh and frankful way. if there is anything insulting, its probably your above post.

even with full preparation and plan, success isnt guarantee. its good to be straighforward and frankful, especially in threads like these to forewarn any potential business owners, especially first time owners.

[IrishIvan]

I wouldnt buy a woman of any nationality a business in any country, thats just me though

[bangkokstick]

Who is stupid enough to invest money in a business when it's so easy to make money without investing anything in Thailand for example by selling online and buying the goods that you sell only after you have actually sold them? Investment = 0 - Profit: the difference between the price you paid the product and the price you sold it. So easy. No risk. No investment.

[Time Traveller]

" "Do not make any financial decision in Thailand that you cannot afford to walk away from". This statement has its merits and quite simply cannot be honestly ignored." - says the OP

Any person that believes that statement is a moron and deserves to lose their money. If the OP seems to think that if it was in any other country this would not have happened, then obviously he has no clue at all about anything, and for his sake should not even consider buying a business.

Signing a contract to buy or lease something without reading it is a recipe for disaster, not just in Thailand but in any country.

And if the other party does not want to honor the contract, then the only recourse is through the law. Such disputes can and do happen everywhere, in every country. That's why lawyers stay in business.

And buying a "good will" business, do you honestly think the seller would give you a fair valuation on the "good will" of the business he is trying to sell? If you don't have any experience with valuing intangible assets, then good will should be worth zero and value the business based on tangible assets only.

Simply blaming Thailand for the situation you found yourself in instead of yourself is just fantasy. I've met as many phony business people in Australia as I have met in Thailand. I feel more comfortable buying into an existing business in Thailand than in Australia any day.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Time Traveller

[bangkokstick]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

Thank you to make it shorter :-) So it's even evidence is even more evident :-)

[David48]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. ...

I'm curious ...

Just what sort of "Release/Get out clause" are you suggesting ...

When you sign a contract for a leased premises ... you sign a contract.

Lets turn this around ...

Let's say you have a good business idea, difficult to copy without making modifications to a building ... a leased premises.

You find a suitable location, sign a 5 year lease, and the business goes gangbusters.

The owner of the property sees this great concept, you have made the structural changes, but he points you to his "Release/Get out clause" and orders you to vacate the building.

In mining supply contracts there are clauses such as 'force majeure' if the mine gets flooded ... and act of nature so immense that the supplier could not comply with the contract.

With older commercial buildings on redevelopment sites there are 'demolition' clauses which allows the lessor to break the contract.

Clauses which allow release if business can not be further conducted due to fire ... think of Central World at Siam.

I'm all for going into business contracts with both legal advise and your eyes wide open.

But the question for me is ... just what type of "Release/Get out clause" are you suggesting?

.

[NeverSure]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. ...

I'm curious ...

Just what sort of "Release/Get out clause" are you suggesting ...

When you sign a contract for a leased premises ... you sign a contract.

Lets turn this around ...

Let's say you have a good business idea, difficult to copy without making modifications to a building ... a leased premises.

You find a suitable location, sign a 5 year lease, and the business goes gangbusters.

The owner of the property sees this great concept, you have made the structural changes, but he points you to his "Release/Get out clause" and orders you to vacate the building.

In mining supply contracts there are clauses such as 'force majeure' if the mine gets flooded ... and act of nature so immense that the supplier could not comply with the contract.

With older commercial buildings on redevelopment sites there are 'demolition' clauses which allows the lessor to break the contract.

Clauses which allow release if business can not be further conducted due to fire ... think of Central World at Siam.

I'm all for going into business contracts with both legal advise and your eyes wide open.

But the question for me is ... just what type of "Release/Get out clause" are you suggesting?

.

Could it have been a month-to-month rental agreement with a big refundable deposit? Rents and deposits on a business "could" be fairly large.

[meatboy]

back in the eighties i had 3farangs who tried to sell me a lame duck and yes they were'nt very good at that, first timers who in the end had to walk away with nothing left of their investment.

would i buy into anything in thailand would i hell,if your successfull you will soon find out you have problems of one kind or another.someone will sell the same product next to you or you will have some uninvited attention.never mind what contract you sign you have no chance here,if its one yr.and your successfull you willsoon find out when the lease is up and you want to renew the rent will go up plenty as so to get you out and a thai family member takes over.

if you do get a long lease and you do well you will get all the agrivation to get you to pack up and leave.so anything you invest if you cant afford to loose it DONT DO IT.

[greg71]

"Most of us are decent men who are willing to increase our Thai wife's stature" What are you opening a business for to make money or to increase the wifeys village face ?Yes your a lucky one next time do not do what you wouldnt do in your own country .Would you buy a business in Oz to make your wife have a better stature i think not .

Edited July 5, 2013 by greg71

[simple1]

" "Do not make any financial decision in Thailand that you cannot afford to walk away from". This statement has its merits and quite simply cannot be honestly ignored." - says the OP

Any person that believes that statement is a moron and deserves to lose their money. If the OP seems to think that if it was in any other country this would not have happened, then obviously he has no clue at all about anything, and for his sake should not even consider buying a business.

Signing a contract to buy or lease something without reading it is a recipe for disaster, not just in Thailand but in any country.

And if the other party does not want to honor the contract, then the only recourse is through the law. Such disputes can and do happen everywhere, in every country. That's why lawyers stay in business.

And buying a "good will" business, do you honestly think the seller would give you a fair valuation on the "good will" of the business he is trying to sell? If you don't have any experience with valuing intangible assets, then good will should be worth zero and value the business based on tangible assets only.

Simply blaming Thailand for the situation you found yourself in instead of yourself is just fantasy. I've met as many phony business people in Australia as I have met in Thailand. I feel more comfortable buying into an existing business in Thailand than in Australia any day.

At least in Australia you have the benchmark of the business GST returns for the ATO. If the seller claims they are not a true refection of the business due to understating revenue/cash stock purchases etc you walk away. In addition if buying a SME via a business brokage the usual fee for the seller is around 12%, Thailand around 20%. Plus Thai brokages often base goodwill on approx 2.5 years of business profits, whereas in Australia it's around 12/18 months. All in all, I suggest Australia has a lot more transparency with checks and balances when buying an existing business than in Thailand

[kaspercat]

Different cultures, different morals. Good and bad everywhere.

Agreed. The story here can be told anywhere. It's not a "Thai" issue.

My father was screwed out of a partnership with a close friend in Miami.

It can happen anywhere when it comes to money.

[Soutpeel]

"In mining supply contracts there are clauses such as 'force majeure' if the mine gets flooded ... and act of nature so immense that the supplier could not comply with the contract"

whether "force majeure" would be applicable in this case is dependent on how the mine got flooded...if it was human error or incompentance which caused the flooding....force majeure clauses wouldnt apply as somebody is accountable...

In the Thailand/bangkok floods....could "force majeure" be applied or did some body have a hand in the root cause of the floods ?

but back to topic at hand....and a buisness term...everyone should know when getting involved with setting up business' or getting involved with things, whether in Thailand or anywhere else....DUE DILLIGENCE

[Soutpeel]

"Most of us are decent men who are willing to increase our Thai wife's stature" What are you opening a business for to make money or to increase the wifeys village face ?Yes your a lucky one next time do not do what you wouldnt do in your own country .Would you buy a business in Oz to make your wife have a better stature i think not .

not a very smart business plan if the whole intent is to increase "stature" and hoping you will make some money out it

[AnotherOneAmerican]

When setting up a business for a woman.

1) Assume it will be a total loss from day 1 with you footing the rent and stock bill (so don't sign an expensive lease)

2) Avoid any business that surrounds your woman with horny foreign men (especially of the two week millionaire type)

3) Try and arrange it so the business needs no staff beyond your woman and you.

4) Avoid a business that has stock that can be stolen, perish or eaten by staff.

I think that about covers it.

Edited July 5, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[robblok]

What is the story about?? Sorry maybe I missed something.

I wrote about signing a business premises lease/contract and being readily armed with legal advice and making sure you included a release/get out clause in the contract. I also suggested that it could be in someone's best interest to read forum topics and research other farangs good and bad financial experiences here in Thailand before committing oneself. It is in general terms as other replies to the topic have identified.

So in short, you're promoting common sense.

This guy has got the balls to admit his failure and has the decency to share it with us, mates... A little respect would be appropriate here..

Thumbs up for you Aussieexpat1068

The whole thing is that its hard to run a business, I know as an accountant as I see many fail. Now if you start a business in a field you don't know much about your at a disadvantage. But in your home country you still might be able to make it. Also most business don't start off with a profit but it takes time to learn the trade and where you can buy the stuff you need and what advertising works best. Now if you try that here and you have no exeperience you almost have no chance what so ever.. First learn what you need to learn back home and then maybe you can be successful here.

I am always amazed at people who start a business at such a disadvantage.

[jaidam]

Thanks OP for posting.

2 years ago I decided to give my business to my manager of many years. I wanted to give the whole business to her for free as a thanks for her work over the years and I was moving on to a new venture. The lease of our premises clearly stated that if I sold the business I would need to pay the building owner 10% of the sale value. So we all sat down to sign the lease out of my name and into new owners name, then came the surprise. Building owner said I had to pay her a large sum of money. Pointing out the relevant clause on the contract was hopeless, it was pay up or you can't change the lease. Totally farcical and I have learned to never sign a contract here as its worthless.

[dave111223]

So you started a business only 6 months ago, and since you are posting this now, we have to assume you were trying to get out of the lease around 3 months after signing? And then pissing and moaning that they wouldn't let you out of a *assuming* 2 year lease after only 3 months?

And in those 3 months you some how managed to increase the value of the business and the "customer base"?

And this somehow involves your Thai wife according to the post title? If the business is your wife's business why did you need to close it after a few months when you got sick?

In short your advice is to somehow sign commercial leases and convince the landlord to write into the contract that you can bugger off after a few months?