The problem with getting attached to things: Thai opinion

[webfact]

VENUS' VISION
The problem with getting attached to things
Veena Thoopkrajae


Luang Pu Nenkham

BANGKOK: -- The latest controversies involving monks have made many Thai people despair. Is Buddhism deteriorating because of the increasing number of misbehaving monks? Is the Lord Buddha's philosophy failing to enlighten the current generation of monks?

Before we all jump the gun, let's dig into the issue and seek the answers in simple dharma. Maybe the scandals are a blessing in disguise, if we adhere to the basic rule of karma - whatever happened, happened for a reason, and is the consequence of our collective actions, of our good and bad karma.

Two concurrent cases may seem too cruel for some Buddhists. One involves a jetsetting Thai monk, Luang Pu Nenkham, whose behaviour has upset quite a number of people and shocked some. He carries a Louis Vuitton case, flies in a jet plane, often visits big shopping malls abroad, owns many luxury cars and plans to develop a massive property project. In addition, he is accused of having eight wives while still being ordained in the monkhood, and his financial affairs are now being investigate by the Anti-Money Laundering Office. The agency has found that he owns 10 bank accounts with transaction records of up to Bt20 million per day.

Another blow was the abrupt departure from the monkhood of Phra Mitsuo Gavesako, who is respected for his dharma teaching book. People were very surprised that the 61-year-old monk decided to leave his monastery after 38 years of practice. They were speechless to learn that he had then hastily married a Thai woman. His marriage certificate and photos circulated by his wife are like salt in the wounds of his followers.

Both cases have shaken many Buddhists, and there is nothing any devout practitioner can do but go back to the core of the Lord Buddha's teaching. Had they really paid attention and got to the core of the dharma, neither Luang Pu Nenkham nor Phra Mitsuo's case would have made them upset or lose faith.

Considering the case under the law of the Sangkha Supreme Council, it is doubtful that the controversial Luang Pu Nenkham could remain in the orange robes. Yet it is rather different in the Mitsuo case, as he left the monkhood and then got married. There is no wrongdoing here. His departure only has a great effect on people's minds. People assumed he would be a monk for life. But expectation, when it is not fulfilled, can leave us in despair.

Many people express their sorrow and frustration about Mitsuo on social media, and many portray his wife as the villain. The thing is, the matter has gone beyond the point of return. "Live in the present," is another of the Lord Buddha's teachings. We may have to re-examine ourselves: if the monk was a car carrying us along the path to enlightenment, the car has broken down. All we have to do is take another car on the same path. Using plain Buddhist philosophy, you detach your thoughts of him as a monk, and move on.

Non-attachment is at times a rather tricky Buddhist concept because it seems so easy to follow as a principle; but in reality it can be so difficult to follow. The sadness of losing a teacher like Phra Mitsuo can well demonstrate the consequences of such attachment. "Whenever we attach, we are unhappy, and when we can detach, we are free from suffering," the late Buddhadasa has said.

The vicious circle, perhaps, starts with each one of us. Like the case of Luang Pu Nenkham, his wealth and lavish lifestyle are part of the collective karma of Buddhists. Before he reached this point, there were followers who bought him expensive gifts and donations of money. First things first, it is us who took part in the bad karma if that behaviour is sinful. The rude awakening from the scandal goes back to karma's basic rule. There is no "drive-through" or "fast-track" way to heaven, and the value of your merit doesn't necessarily go in line with the cost of it. The greater your desire to go to heaven, the more likely you will be lured to hell. This shows, in the case of followers of Luang Pu Nenkham, that merit, despite its cost, has only worsened the core of the religion.

Nevertheless, we should not worry about the decline of Buddhism because of a number of scandals. We have experienced this before with the misconduct of the former Phra Yantra, Phra Nikhon and Nen Air. Despite the struggle against all the vices of today's society, the tenets of Buddhism have survived and are intact. Sometimes we may forget the very simple way to contentment but in hard times like this, Buddhism can still gives us time and space for soul searching. Revisiting the simple principle of non-attachment and other wise Buddhist teachings can be practical and consoling in such situations. As the late Buddhadasa has taught, and it is very applicable here: "Sorrow teaches us more than happiness could."


-- The Nation 2013-07-06

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe the Japanese monk realised that there was too much corruption around him, and started to question his faith?

[retell]

Maybe the Japanese monk realised that there was too much corruption around him, and started to question his faith?

na next year he gonna publish another book with his life story ,another bestseller

[Thai at Heart]

Maybe the Japanese monk realised that there was too much corruption around him, and started to question his faith?

na next year he gonna publish another book with his life story ,another bestseller

If I was bombarded with money to grant karma to people, I might get a little jaded eventually.

[OzMick]

Don't get attached to your earthly possessions, buy my bag of smoke and I will relieve you of that unholy burden.

The world is full of suckers, mugs and fools in desperate need of parting with their money, and there's another one born every minute.

Edited July 6, 2013 by OzMick

[lungmi]

My spiritual father, forest monk (Buddhadasa and P.A.Payutto lineage) told me:

- 80% of monks don't know what they do (a high number of released inmates take refuge for some food)

- 15 % of monks know very well what they have to do, but they only do by mouth, the business is undercover.

- 5 % of monks know very well what they have to do and they do.

[asupeartea]

A foreign friend came to Thailand to join the Buddhists and quit after two years because the only thing the monks talked about what money.

[wprime]

My spiritual father, forest monk (Buddhadasa and P.A.Payutto lineage) told me:

- 80% of monks don't know what they do (a high number of released inmates take refuge for some food)

- 15 % of monks know very well what they have to do, but they only do by mouth, the business is undercover.

- 5 % of monks know very well what they have to do and they do.

How is that different from any other profession?

[hellodolly]

Interesting.

I have no idea of how many monks there are in Thailand but all the focus seems to be on one who is in my opinion a crook and one who decided to leave the life of a monk and have a wife. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course there are the people who see all monks as being users of the people . That is understandable as that is all they wish to see. But how many of the monks are in Wat's where there is no wealth around them. They do not have a constant stream of tourists coming through. They live the simple life of the Monk.

I was at a friends wedding in a small village in Issan. No TV satellite dishes there but they had a Wat. The Monks there lived a very simple life and if I had not been told it was a Wat I would never have known.

[CIHUAHUA]

Lord Buddha's teaching are personal. Row your own boat and don't be attached to contempt.

[RKASA]

Scandals are a norm in institutions of every faith world wide - don't confuse the institutions with the faith. Don't fall into the trap of thinking your faith depends on an institution ether.

[lee b]

Interesting.

I have no idea of how many monks there are in Thailand but all the focus seems to be on one who is in my opinion a crook and one who decided to leave the life of a monk and have a wife. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course there are the people who see all monks as being users of the people . That is understandable as that is all they wish to see. But how many of the monks are in Wat's where there is no wealth around them. They do not have a constant stream of tourists coming through. They live the simple life of the Monk.

I was at a friends wedding in a small village in Issan. No TV satellite dishes there but they had a Wat. The Monks there lived a very simple life and if I had not been told it was a Wat I would never have known.

So True !

[lungmi]

Interesting.

I have no idea of how many monks there are in Thailand but all the focus seems to be on one who is in my opinion a crook and one who decided to leave the life of a monk and have a wife. Nothing wrong with that.

Of course there are the people who see all monks as being users of the people . That is understandable as that is all they wish to see. But how many of the monks are in Wat's where there is no wealth around them. They do not have a constant stream of tourists coming through. They live the simple life of the Monk.

I was at a friends wedding in a small village in Issan. No TV satellite dishes there but they had a Wat. The Monks there lived a very simple life and if I had not been told it was a Wat I would never have known.

This a wonderful fact too. There are many small Wats with devoted monks. They have no name, they have no "high instruction" but they know by intuition what they have to do. They are " risi", it's one of the 4 ways to Awakening.

[lungmi]

To be a risi the first step is suññatā ( Voidness, emptiness) no delusion etc. You are ready and free to accept the "message" of Dhamma.

The "message" comes like a flash and you know what you have to do.

[BrianCR]

To be a risi the first step is suññatā ( Voidness, emptiness) no delusion etc. You are ready and free to accept the "message" of Dhamma.

The "message" comes like a flash and you know what you have to do.

I thought I had that "flash" till I realised I had been hit by lightening! After having said that I do believe that Buddhists in general take care of each other more than so called religions! Edited July 6, 2013 by BrianCR

[BahBahBoBo]

"The problem with getting attached to things: Thai opinion"

Yes, i understand where you are REALLY coming from. I met this Thai ladyboy and she also had a problem because a 'thing' attached to her and also was very disraught.

But don't worry your pretty little head because I think he-she said she was saving money to get 'unattached'

[BahBahBoBo]

Lord Buddha's teaching are personal. Row your own boat and don't be attached to contempt.

Spoken as though they are the words of the Lord Buddha himself!

[lungmi]

To be a risi the first step is suññatā ( Voidness, emptiness) no delusion etc. You are ready and free to accept the "message" of Dhamma.

The "message" comes like a flash and you know what you have to do.

I thought I had that "flash" till I realised I had been hit by lightening! After having said that I do believe that Buddhists in general take care of each other more than so called religions!

When I was baby-monk in Wat Umong Chiang Mai (only 4 weeks,23years ago) I had after a long walking meditation in my cuti a relax time.

The four jhana came to me. Wonderful. But I understood nothing. In the library I read about jhana. I went to a German Monk(part of my ordination.

His answer: Good experience, your are lucky, continue.

For you these "flashs" are good. In Zen Buddhism these flashs mean a kick on the way. Not understand all,but you have the good kick for more.

[noitom]

Don't get attached to your earthly possessions, buy my bag of smoke and I will relieve you of that unholy burden.

The world is full of suckers, mugs and fools in desperate need of parting with their money, and there's another one born every minute.

Yes, the next greater fool theory.

[PoodMaiDai]

The sadness of losing a teacher like Phra Mitsuo can well demonstrate the consequences of such attachment.

He isn't a teacher, he's a con man.

[dutchguest]

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

[hellodolly]

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

[dutchguest]

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

A synthesis between east and west may be a fertile marriage. Buddhism is i.m.o. the ultimate science of the innerworld, the west has developed the science of the outerworld. I agree that science has its limitations: certainly as it is taught at schools and universities it is more like a burden of useless information that has to be unlearned in order to be able to develop a more creative, independent and meaningful way to explore your own mind and the world. Meditation is also ultimately transcending the rational mind into some deeper, more intuitively working forms of awareness.

[phuketsub]

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

You miss the point.

The fact that science, unlike "religions", never claims absolute truths is its most beautiful aspect. All of the religions I am familiar with are based on fallacious, unprovable presumptions: reincarnation, existence of a soul, virgin births...the list is almost endless, but the common theme is self-evident: deny mortality.

I think there is a great discrepancy between the number of people who claim to hold a faith and the number of people who actually do believe in them. I think those in the former group are just intellectually lazy, those in the latter naive.

I believe it was the great Daniel Dennet who said religion is form of narcissism. Our species has reached this amazing stage where we can start asking these kinds of questions, but it is just a beginning -- throwing up irrational explanations and burning calories to create dogma to support them is a colossal waste.

Religion is narcissistic; science humble: take your pick, and choose wisely.

As for how the pyramids were built, they were built in the same way as so many of mankind's greatest "achievements": with slave labor. They are amazing monuments to human misery -- and you don't need to be Einstein to figure that out.

I will end this with a quote by the aforementioned Mr Dennet:

We used to think that secrecy was perhaps the greatest enemy of democracy, and as long as there was no suppression or censorship, people could be trusted to make the informed decisions that would preserve our free society, but we have learned in recent years that the techniques of misinformation and misdirection have become so refined that, even in an open society, a cleverly directed flood of misinformation can overwhelm the truth, even though the truth is out there, uncensored, quietly available to anyone who can find it.

- Daniel Dennett

[hellodolly]

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

In many western countries churches are loosing their original function and meaning and the buildings are sometimes used for other purposes. Many people are loosing their believe in the traditional way religion is organized, among others because they saw too many of its representatives behaving in a way that goes against the teachings of their founders.

May be it is an unavoidable development: if you want to give a certain form to spiritual truths means you have to deal with mundane powers to give it a place in a society ruled by money, greed etc. and here the corruption of the teachings (and the people representing them) may begin already.

In the past the combined power structure of organized religion and the state were enough to make most people blind followers and believers. Among others the rise of science and more freedom and democracy made people more independent in their way of thinking and they no more automatically followed the way of their parents and forefathers. Arguments take the place of blind believe. And here most representatives of the churches failed because they themselves are only blind believers without deeper going experiences.

If Thai Buddhism goes the same way as the religion in many western countries its institutions will also gradually loose their original meaning and blind believers will turn into more individual seekers of truth and cut the ties with the organized religion. Although i.m.o. the inner core of all religions is the same, Buddhism has the advantage over western religions that its teachings have a more rational and scientific form and can be tested by individually.

What you say has a lot of truth in it. The problem I have is that it seems to be that we base so much on science. To hear people speak of science one would wonder do they really think science has all the answers today.

It is my belief that they will never have all the answers. There is always more to learn. They do not even understand gravity yet. It is however there. They can not even explain how the great pyramid of Egypt was built. They have ideas but no proof so all they have is a theory.

You miss the point.

The fact that science, unlike "religions", never claims absolute truths is its most beautiful aspect. All of the religions I am familiar with are based on fallacious, unprovable presumptions: reincarnation, existence of a soul, virgin births...the list is almost endless, but the common theme is self-evident: deny mortality.

I think there is a great discrepancy between the number of people who claim to hold a faith and the number of people who actually do believe in them. I think those in the former group are just intellectually lazy, those in the latter naive.

I believe it was the great Daniel Dennet who said religion is form of narcissism. Our species has reached this amazing stage where we can start asking these kinds of questions, but it is just a beginning -- throwing up irrational explanations and burning calories to create dogma to support them is a colossal waste.

Religion is narcissistic; science humble: take your pick, and choose wisely.

As for how the pyramids were built, they were built in the same way as so many of mankind's greatest "achievements": with slave labor. They are amazing monuments to human misery -- and you don't need to be Einstein to figure that out.

I will end this with a quote by the aforementioned Mr Dennet:

We used to think that secrecy was perhaps the greatest enemy of democracy, and as long as there was no suppression or censorship, people could be trusted to make the informed decisions that would preserve our free society, but we have learned in recent years that the techniques of misinformation and misdirection have become so refined that, even in an open society, a cleverly directed flood of misinformation can overwhelm the truth, even though the truth is out there, uncensored, quietly available to anyone who can find it.

- Daniel Dennett

As for mortality science tells us that we will go on. It does not make a claim as to in what form. Because it does not know. Religions claim the very living essence of the being will go on. They how ever claim to know how. That is the only difference between the two when it comes to mortality.

For myself I can not make a defiant claim one way or the other. So I do not deny either one.

You say

"As for how the pyramids were built, they were built in the same way as so many of mankind's greatest "achievements": with slave labor. They are amazing monuments to human misery -- and you don't need to be Einstein to figure that out."

The question was how they were built not who built them.

You say

"I think there is a great discrepancy between the number of people who claim to hold a faith and the number of people who actually do believe in them. I think those in the former group are just intellectually lazy, those in the latter naive."

Now how do you arrive at the intellectually lazy. What do you base that decision on. Are you using science to arrive at it. Are you taking the position that science has all the answers there can be nothing else. We have arrived. Might as well close all laboratories down nothing else to discover.

If I believed that I would agree with you. But I don't believe it. I think science is in it's child hood. Some scientists talk of the possibility of other dimensions subject to different laws. Back to my original statement How were the pyramids built? To say slave labor is from where I sit intellectually laziness.

I do not have the answers but that is not a reason to deny. Yes Religions have many things in them I do not believe. But if you look at the basic teachings you will find many good things. If you look at the people and some of their doings you can see many bad things. Your choice.

[ableguy]

To be a risi the first step is suññatā ( Voidness, emptiness) no delusion etc. You are ready and free to accept the "message" of Dhamma.

The "message" comes like a flash and you know what you have to do.

Time gentemen please.

[baboon]

Lord Buddha's teaching are personal. Row your own boat and don't be attached to contempt.

Aye, sounds great, mysterious and Oriental and all that, but what does it actually mean?

[Thai at Heart]

I would say it's more likely that aliens built the pyramids than god.

[phuketsub]

In response to Hello Dolly (I am over my multi-quote allotment):

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.

The only comment I would make is that I wasn't aware that "As for mortality science tells us that we will go on"...You might want to elaborate on that.

Perhaps science has surpassed its original agenda -- explaining (readily observable phenomena) -- to the point that many (if not most) people don't really understand what it is any more.

Misunderstanding (or failure to understand) is probably the single greatest source of fear.

I was raised in a strict religious tradition (Catholicism), but never found any succor in blind faith.

I do like the introspection and meditative elements of real Buddhism, but that's a far cry from what mainstream, "stairway to heaven" Thai Buddhism has become.

[belg]

enlightment, isn't that thing to lighten up your siggies?

555